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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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In what scenario...
#23641361 - 09/13/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Is death anxiety not the prime motivator?
It seems to me that death anxiety is behind all our actions, and the great answer to life is death anxiety. Meaning what we keep coming back for, is because of death anxiety.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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Nooner
noon



Registered: 06/15/14
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When you're not afraid to die.
-------------------- Deus Videt
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: In what scenario... [Re: Nooner]
#23641453 - 09/13/16 12:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well, I think few ever conquer death anxiety fully. Shields seems to distract people from fearing death, but when you remove those there is only the naked animal struggling for survival.
Maybe some of the terminally ill have conquered death anxiety.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
Edited by liquidlounge (09/13/16 12:42 PM)
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
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I've heard about some clinic in Switzerland that has been administering psilocybin and LSD to terminally ill patients to ease their death anxiety, and that it works. Some of the patients claim they are completely free of their fear. I heard about this probably three or four years ago, I don't have a link.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Yes, I would imagine loss of all hope would gain some sort of serenity.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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DividedQuantum
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Good point. Loss of all hope, coupled with free high quality shrooms, in a beautiful mountainside setting probably does bring serenity to most of those patients.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Crumist
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I've seen this argument before, but I can't say I've ever understood. I'd even go so far as I dont' recognize what "death anxiety" is. I see other people complain about their fading youth, but I don't worry about the fact that some day my life will end. I'm not trolling, or trying to be edgy, I just am curious who the hell some thinkers (Hitchens for example) think they are to say "fear of death" is the main motivator of everyone's life? Youre born, you live, you die. Tide goes in, tide goes out
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
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Re: In what scenario... [Re: Crumist]
#23643363 - 09/13/16 11:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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You seem to be projecting the issue you're currently dealing with onto everyone.
Death anxiety is your current issue. It was the issue at the time of the essays' writing for the writer.
Doesn't mean anyone else necessarily has this problem.
---
In my experience, we are the beginning and the end of existence, and we encompass the death of the physical.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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laughingdog
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Some people like to make lists of what motivates people (and arrange ideas like love, sex, power, fear of death … etc.) (and maybe even number the items in order of ‘importance’).
Others might idly wonder: What motivates them to make lists …
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Re: In what scenario... [Re: Crumist]
#23647713 - 09/15/16 02:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crumist said: I've seen this argument before, but I can't say I've ever understood. I'd even go so far as I dont' recognize what "death anxiety" is. I see other people complain about their fading youth, but I don't worry about the fact that some day my life will end. I'm not trolling, or trying to be edgy, I just am curious who the hell some thinkers (Hitchens for example) think they are to say "fear of death" is the main motivator of everyone's life? Youre born, you live, you die. Tide goes in, tide goes out 
My guess is that you don't see it consciously.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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liquidlounge

Registered: 12/22/10
Posts: 9,256
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Quote:
beforethedawn said: You seem to be projecting the issue you're currently dealing with onto everyone.
Death anxiety is your current issue. It was the issue at the time of the essays' writing for the writer.
Doesn't mean anyone else necessarily has this problem.
---
In my experience, we are the beginning and the end of existence, and we encompass the death of the physical.
Death anxiety seems to be the basis of cultures all over the world.
-------------------- As far as I assume to know...
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
Crumist said: I've seen this argument before, but I can't say I've ever understood. I'd even go so far as I dont' recognize what "death anxiety" is. I see other people complain about their fading youth, but I don't worry about the fact that some day my life will end. I'm not trolling, or trying to be edgy, I just am curious who the hell some thinkers (Hitchens for example) think they are to say "fear of death" is the main motivator of everyone's life? Youre born, you live, you die. Tide goes in, tide goes out 
My guess is that you don't see it consciously.
I think liguidlounge is at least mostly right. Look at the chain of causation. What drives civilization? What drives an individual's need to be a part of the workforce? The answer to that is: survival. Everyone does what they do, at least as far as putting food on the table, because of an innate drive to survive. And what is survival really? The result of the desire not to die. So at least there is a solid causation for entertaining the abstraction we call "death anxiety." Some people are not as afraid of death as others. But probably, most would rather be alive than dead, and just because one doesn't actively get bothered by the notion of dying, chances are it will be pretty hard to take when it happens, if it doesn't happen suddenly.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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laughingdog
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:
... The answer to that is: survival. Everyone does what they do, at least as far as putting food on the table, because of an innate drive to survive. And what is survival really? The result of the desire not to die. ... Some people are not as afraid of death as others. But probably, most would rather be alive than dead, and just because one doesn't actively get bothered by the notion of dying, chances are it will be pretty hard to take when it happens, if it doesn't happen suddenly.
so it would be interesting to know if those who devote their lives to the service of others suffer less when dying. Wonder if anyone ever did such a study. After all they have mitigated the grip of ego previously.
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
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Quote:
liquidlounge said:
Quote:
beforethedawn said: You seem to be projecting the issue you're currently dealing with onto everyone.
Death anxiety is your current issue. It was the issue at the time of the essays' writing for the writer.
Doesn't mean anyone else necessarily has this problem.
---
In my experience, we are the beginning and the end of existence, and we encompass the death of the physical.
Death anxiety seems to be the basis of cultures all over the world. 
Hm maybe it can be seen that way, but how many people go around fearing death instead of just living?
It seems to be a lot of people don't assume too much, just get on with things, and are reasonably alive.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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Murzelpfrumpft
pet donkey in a lucid dream

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People more often confronted with death like health professionals are more interested in culture. They go to the theater more often and what not.
Would be interesting if this applies to people who had near-death-experiences as well. I guess it depends on the outcome. After such an experience, some people dear death more and some less.
However, had some insanely intense of those experiences and it drastically changed my "death anxiety" but I'm not interested in culture any more than before.
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laughingdog
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http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/05/opinion/why-do-doctors-commit-suicide.html?_r=0
The statistics on physician suicide are frightening: Physicians are more than twice as likely to kill themselves as nonphysicians (and female physicians three times more likely than their male counterparts). Some 400 doctors commit suicide every year. - - - - - - - http://www.publichealth.va.gov/epidemiology/studies/suicide-risk-death-risk-recent-veterans.asp
Suicide Risk and Risk of Death Among Recent Veterans Among deployed and non-deployed active duty Veterans who served during the Iraq or Afghanistan wars between 2001 and 2007, the rate of suicide was greatest the first three years after leaving service, according to a recent study. Compared to the U.S. population, both deployed and non-deployed Veterans had a higher risk of suicide, but a lower risk of death from other causes combined. Deployed Veterans also had a lower risk of suicide compared to non-deployed Veterans. These findings are from a study that looked at the vital status of 1.3 million Veterans from their time of discharge through the end of 2009. - - - - - - - - - - - - lots more facts here
http://mentalhealthdaily.com/2015/01/06/top-11-professions-with-highest-suicide-rates/
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Withinity
Untitled

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I'm going to make this post a bit more personal. It's mainly for OP but a few others might Grok where I'm going with this.
Constantly focusing on Death anxiety is also a form of death anxiety so why even go down this rabbit hole? It's the prime motivator yes , I agree. Behind all our actions and sexual pursuits and once you become too close or analytical of this fact it can really affect your life imo. It's not always smart to get caught knee deep in these kinds of thought trains. Humans are animals, animals have ego's which help them survive; becoming conscious of every death anxiety shield you create and then tearing it down has a high potential of making you an un-functionable animal.
If someone wants to believe the ultimate act of selflessness is to not have children let them not have children and shut the fuck up about it instead of influencing a bunch of lost and troubled kids which is also a way of building up a shield. Socially interacting on the Internet is still coming back to the animal nature of being social pack creatures, people even have reputations and can build up a following even if they act humble and dismissive about it. It's way easy to deceive yourself above all and the scary thing is you wouldn't even know it.
Yes your constantly rotting but if you embrace biology wholeheartedly then that also includes death. I think those people who didn't continue on their genetics were not in fact selfless but instead a bunch of sore losers and I would be interested what they thought on the matter on their deathbed.
Be your own person bro, whoever wants to read Ernst Becker can read the book and draw their own conclusions. Man always has this habit and tendency to 'rally the troops' as it were. If you do really understand this then why keep going back to the obvious, same shit as people trying to convince you of religion really. It's just less obvious because the shield is about the shield kind of thing , Its closer to home but your still not home as you are not yet dead.
One love brother
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
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Re: In what scenario... [Re: Withinity]
#23656456 - 09/18/16 05:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Withinity said: I'm going to make this post a bit more personal. It's mainly for OP but a few others might Grok where I'm going with this.
Constantly focusing on Death anxiety is also a form of death anxiety so why even go down this rabbit hole? It's the prime motivator yes , I agree. Behind all our actions and sexual pursuits and once you become too close or analytical of this fact it can really affect your life imo. It's not always smart to get caught knee deep in these kinds of thought trains. Humans are animals, animals have ego's which help them survive; becoming conscious of every death anxiety shield you create and then tearing it down has a high potential of making you an un-functionable animal.
If someone wants to believe the ultimate act of selflessness is to not have children let them not have children and shut the fuck up about it instead of influencing a bunch of lost and troubled kids which is also a way of building up a shield. Socially interacting on the Internet is still coming back to the animal nature of being social pack creatures, people even have reputations and can build up a following even if they act humble and dismissive about it. It's way easy to deceive yourself above all and the scary thing is you wouldn't even know it.
Yes your constantly rotting but if you embrace biology wholeheartedly then that also includes death. I think those people who didn't continue on their genetics were not in fact selfless but instead a bunch of sore losers and I would be interested what they thought on the matter on their deathbed.
Be your own person bro, whoever wants to read Ernst Becker can read the book and draw their own conclusions. Man always has this habit and tendency to 'rally the troops' as it were. If you do really understand this then why keep going back to the obvious, same shit as people trying to convince you of religion really. It's just less obvious because the shield is about the shield kind of thing , Its closer to home but your still not home as you are not yet dead.
One love brother 
You make some good points 
I think what tends to draw myself and maybe others like me back in, is that there are some benefits from exploring one's motives as well. One can replace shields by acknowledging those currently in place. Yes, it is difficult for any shield to engage fully now. But for some of us the shields were broken/dysfunctional to begin with and so it's actually a reprieve to understand their intended function. The replacements may never be whole but I don't believe anyone's shields are ever free from gaps. At least now there is some freedom to choose whereas before it was directed by a broken and largely heartless culture.
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
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Quote:
liquidlounge said: Is death anxiety not the prime motivator?
It seems to me that death anxiety is behind all our actions, and the great answer to life is death anxiety. Meaning what we keep coming back for, is because of death anxiety.
I think there may be states of meditation that achieve this and studies show the brain alterations to boot. I also think that one can momentarily glance it throughout their life in special circumstances. At least those have been my experiences.
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Withinity
Untitled

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Re: In what scenario... [Re: Kickle]
#23656647 - 09/18/16 06:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I respect what you say and I agree that no shields are ever bulletproof because you never know what the next day can bring to your surprise, I know it well. Introspection is never a bad thing in my eyes but we also must eat and keep up the daily rituals. If your leg has Gangrene you chop it off or the infection spreads in the same way I think fanaticism can wholeheartedly consume an individual leaving them dysfunctional members of society.
The difference between 'coming back in' compared to 'constantly being there'. Anyway your a really smart guy, you know what I mean , thanks for chiming in with your experiences.
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