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OfflineWithinity
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War and Peace
    #23629582 - 09/09/16 04:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

War and Peace,
War and peace Together,
War and Peace Forever,
Always....


Is it possible to change History or will it keep on repeating? Discuss  :elmo:


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Offlineyeah
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Re: War and Peace [Re: Withinity]
    #23629593 - 09/09/16 04:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I don't know, but I can tell you the words of Yujiro Hanma

"... life without conflict is the greatest struggle of all."


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OfflineWithinity
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Re: War and Peace [Re: yeah]
    #23629617 - 09/09/16 04:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah , that's interesting. I guess it might force you to Meditate and go introspective or something like this?


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Offlineyeah
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Re: War and Peace [Re: Withinity]
    #23629651 - 09/09/16 04:31 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

What a miserable fate for the best fighter in the world.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: War and Peace [Re: Withinity]
    #23631337 - 09/10/16 03:56 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Withinity said:
War and Peace,
War and peace Together,
War and Peace Forever,
Always....


Is it possible to change History or will it keep on repeating? Discuss  :elmo:





Orwell told you:
Quote:


'those who control the past control the future...who controls the present controls the past'


in his book 1984

What this means is this: the groups that have occupied us for generations and generations and generations are warrior-based cultures who thrive on war, and it is they who have incited the myths which mind-control people to accept their reality as how-it-must-be.

Think of the institution school. Many kids hate it (I sure know I did. It was the bane of my youth!!), but they do not know any other way because it is a given to millions of children that that-is-how-life-is.

it is only when you meet people like John Taylor Gatto, etc who expose what the 'education' system is really all about that you realize what has been done to you, and is continuing to be done to others. The REALITY.

Same then is so of the paradigm we are born into. You have to do the research and expose the 'reality' being enforced on is by those who think they control the past and thus control the future. They do so by making it that we are living a Big Lie.

It is the September 11 attacks anniversary tomorrow, and there is a HUGE example of what I mean. THAT is in the past, and is a Big Lie, and their CONTROL is making it so that many gullible people accept it as reality.

Edited by zzripz (09/10/16 04:09 AM)

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OfflineWithinity
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Re: War and Peace [Re: zzripz]
    #23632211 - 09/10/16 12:17 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Maybe that's why westerners are the only ones to fully embrace the concept of Multiculturalism.

I want either a Muslim or a Jewish bride without having to convert to their religion , belief and way of life.. Is it possible? This whole attitude of yeah I'm keen to sell you drugs and alcohol but I wouldn't touch it myself with a 10 foot pole is concerning to me.

I have read the book and reguard it highly my friend, thank you for sharing that quote. I think you are onto something as History is always written by the victor and open to subject of manipulation.

THE KINGDOM OF KHAZARIA is one thing I was never taught about in school.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: War and Peace [Re: yeah]
    #23634173 - 09/10/16 10:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

yeah said:

I don't know, but I can tell you the words of Yujiro Hanma

"... life without conflict is the greatest struggle of all."




Because the ego is fueled by conflict and enemies.

Consider sports. Some say sports are dumb. But they serve a purpose. To create conflict and enemies.

It's why Buddhist practice is often called, "Going Against The Stream". To deny the ego conflict can be very challenging!

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: War and Peace [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #23634448 - 09/11/16 12:08 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

It has also been pointed out that many sports have to do with aiming and throwing things, which is a reflection of our hunting past.

To my mind this is preferable to actually hunting and killing, but I prefer to do neither.

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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: War and Peace [Re: laughingdog]
    #23634509 - 09/11/16 12:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The masses who are fist pumping says it all. We are chimps in clothes.

Clapping and fist pumps are behavioral signs of primate dominance.

The fact sports fans ("fanatics") sometimes kill, for example at soccer games, is evidence.

Notice how sports fans curse their enemies... "Fuck you! You suck!"

Here in the US we put stickers on our cars to remind everyone our team is #1

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OfflineWithinity
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Re: War and Peace [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23638444 - 09/12/16 12:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Why do we have such a gripe against the ego then?

It seems like all this is relatively normal, the fist pumping, genital bumping and generally fighting over prowess of duality mine vs yours and holding ones own territory.

I heard a Story about a Buddha once wherein he gave up his own life to let a Mother tigress and its cub live, like he literally fed himself to the mother Tigress and let her kill him.

Do you think it's possible such 'selfless' text that came out of China and India where made as a means of Depopulation?

Without the ego its easy to become someone else's bitch and that someone else is going to always exist. What kind of life is that to live, this whole Asian mentality of constantly bowing to superiors and whatnot. Is it possible that living without the Ego is some form of disease just like a schizophrenic , if so why in modern days have we put such philosophies so high on a pedastool?


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Invisiblesudly
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Re: War and Peace [Re: Withinity]
    #23640047 - 09/12/16 09:59 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Withinity said:
War and Peace,
War and peace Together,
War and Peace Forever,
Always....


Is it possible to change History or will it keep on repeating? Discuss  :elmo:





It's possible if the political system of bureaucracy becomes a 2 way system inclusive of upstream policy engagement wherein public representatives are informed of and have influence in the policy decision making processes of emerging technologies such as nanotechnology. This 2 way method can be used to ensure that there isn't a 1 way bias pushing the development of emerging technologies because when this happens it becomes an economic agenda and not one of social, economic and environmental progress.

Previous technologies like GMO's already have their policies deeply implemented so it's far more difficult to make a change in those.


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I am whatever Darwin needs me to be.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: War and Peace [Re: Withinity]
    #23640629 - 09/13/16 05:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Withinity said:
Why do we have such a gripe against the ego then?

It seems like all this is relatively normal, the fist pumping, genital bumping and generally fighting over prowess of duality mine vs yours and holding ones own territory.

I heard a Story about a Buddha once wherein he gave up his own life to let a Mother tigress and its cub live, like he literally fed himself to the mother Tigress and let her kill him.

Do you think it's possible such 'selfless' text that came out of China and India where made as a means of Depopulation?

Without the ego its easy to become someone else's bitch and that someone else is going to always exist. What kind of life is that to live, this whole Asian mentality of constantly bowing to superiors and whatnot. Is it possible that living without the Ego is some form of disease just like a schizophrenic , if so why in modern days have we put such philosophies so high on a pedastool?




This is where I see something wrong with what you say: where we agree is that it is ignore~ant to think one can be wholly self-ish. It is silly thinking, because selfishness and selflessness are not two static states, but a dynamic. So the whole Eastern/New Age stuff about getting rid of ego is absurd, and the ones sho claim it like the gurus etc are biggest load of hypocrites ever!

But where I see your thinking go wrong is then when you assume that being selfish is natural:
Quote:

It seems like all this is relatively normal, the fist pumping, genital bumping and generally fighting over prowess of duality mine vs yours and holding ones own territory.


I don't agree. I see all of that coming from a VERY selfish civilizations which enclosed lands off from the common people of their 'own' lands, and invaded other native peoples (who didn't have the philosophy of 'egolessness' either) and robbed their lands, and fenced it off. All of this is extreme egoistic behaviour, and I am against that. Accepting selfishness AND selflessness does not mean you become the extreme of either, but rather see through the duality of that so as not to become a complete destructive asshole.

Your 'Buddha' example? There is no historical evidence Gautama Siddharta even existed. Me using my self-ishness stands against those who want me to blindly accept what they spin me.

Quote:

Without the ego its easy to become someone else's bitch and that someone else is going to always exist. What kind of life is that to live, this whole Asian mentality of constantly bowing to superiors and whatnot. Is it possible that living without the Ego is some form of disease just like a schizophrenic , if so why in modern days have we put such philosophies so high on a pedastool?




Obeying the chain of command is not really being self-less. But conforming to authority where you don't think for yourself and understand dynamics. This is why people strive to 'get rid of ego'--they lose the knack to think for themselves. Same is so for those who embrace materialism and become blind zombie consumers completely manipulated by the ad men.

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OfflineLion
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Re: War and Peace [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23641281 - 09/13/16 11:17 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

This is the nature of war, whose stake is at once the game and the authority and the justification. Seen so, war is the truest form of divination. It is the testing of one's will and the will of another within that larger will which because it binds them is therefore forced to select. War is the ultimate game because war is at last a forcing of the unity of existence. War is god.

-The Judge, Blood Meridian by Cormac McCarthy




That is one of my favorite book quotes, not because I love the sentiment, but it provokes reflection on the subject.

There's also a great quote in another McCarthy novel, All the Pretty Horses, about how nobody knows a horse until he's ridden one into battle and seen that it loves war just as much as men, but I digress...

I spend a lot of time thinking about war.  I think there is a primordial, incalculable momentum behind war - young men love the idea of it, and in a world where the vast majority of people are moving around without purpose, constantly in fear of their mortality and the meaninglessness of their lives, war provides something other things can't: a drive, an energy, a deep kinship.  Especially if you can find a cause that you really believe is a case of good versus evil, then it's incredibly seductive.  That's a large part of why ISIS is seductive to people who have been brainwashed to believe that in the way of jihad lies eternal paradise, and along the way they can be action heroes and buy beautiful sex slaves / wives.  And that's also why many young men dream of going to fight against ISIS - they seem to embody something so clearly evil, and the rest of the world has so much moral ambiguity, that going to destroy them seems to be one of the clearest moral paths to take.

On another level, the momentum is carried by the global system we have.  Without sounding like a Marxist, if you look at modern history it looks like: A small group of people has accumulated a lot of wealth, through cunning, hard work, and intelligence, and equally through strange circumstances of history.  New members join that group sometimes, but there are gatekeepers who want to protect the status quo and will do what it takes.  Then there are a lot of countries where almost nobody has anything, and many people fight tooth and nail to get to the places (usually an elected or ministerial position in government) where they can live in comfort and luxury.  Along the way they flood their countries with arms and deliberately stoke identity-based hatreds.

I think more war is on the forecast, because the world is out of balance, politically and ecologically, and there are accounts to be closed.  I've often felt drawn toward war and conflict by an intense curiosity, perhaps a morbid voyeurism.  And part of me is secretly interested in experiencing combat and understanding deeply what it is about.  At the same time, I recently had a small taste of what modern war looks like, and it was intense in a very bad way and sent me spiraling into a horrible mental state.  It made me realize more than I ever had before how horrible modern warfare truly is.  I can't believe what some people live through, and I think no one who has been in a war zone for a certain amount of time comes out psychologically intact, however strong they are.  Something is always permanently broken and lost, and it's something people ideally would not have to go without.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: War and Peace [Re: Lion]
    #23641297 - 09/13/16 11:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I am intrigued and disturbed by your post.  Intense curiosity and morbid voyeurism invariably put us on the wrong foot.  You write about war with a kind of romance that makes one recoil at the knowledge that this deep-seated, primordial sanctification is why humans cannot stop making war.  I am not reading the post of a well-adjusted human being, but I am reading the post of one who should fit right in.


--------------------
Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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OfflineLion
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Re: War and Peace [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #23641321 - 09/13/16 11:44 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
I am intrigued and disturbed by your post.  Intense curiosity and morbid voyeurism invariably put us on the wrong foot.  You write about war with a kind of romance that makes one recoil at the knowledge that this deep-seated, primordial sanctification is why humans cannot stop making war.  I am not reading the post of a well-adjusted human being, but I am reading the post of one who should fit right in.


I can understand why you might feel that way but I don't think you read me carefully, or else I wrote without clarity.  Probably the latter.  I was trying to express what I see as common driving human forces behind war - not judging whether or not they constitute valid motivations. 

I think that romanticism - and voyeurism - are parts of most people's make up to varying degrees when it comes to conflict, particularly young men.  In my free time I volunteer to help people who have been affected by war, and I dedicate a huge part of my time to learning about modern conflicts and their causes.  My intentions in doing that are positive, even if there is an element of my shadow in it as well (as I think there always is - it's human nature). As I said in the final paragraph, I've had a glimpse of what modern warfare is like, and found it horrifying.  I've also read enough to know that the realities of war are not romantic, but mundane, brutal, traumatic.

"If only it were all so simple! If only there were evil people somewhere insidiously committing evil deeds, and it were necessary only to separate them from the rest of us and destroy them. But the line dividing good and evil cuts through the heart of every human being. And who is willing to destroy a piece of his own heart?" - Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: War and Peace [Re: Lion]
    #23641367 - 09/13/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Understood.  Good posts. :thumbup:


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Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici

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Invisiblelaughingdog
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Re: War and Peace [Re: Withinity]
    #23642308 - 09/13/16 05:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Withinity said:
War and Peace,
War and peace Together,
War and Peace Forever,
Always....


Is it possible to change History or will it keep on repeating? Discuss  :elmo:





what is history?
seems a dumb question.
but some say it depends on who writes it,
and generally it is the story of those individuals who abuse power
and get others to follow them and do dumb stuff. And the boundaries they make up that define the limits of their power based on economics and violence. Many nations rewrite history, and the modern media distort it on a daily basis.

One can also have a history of science, or technology, or education, etc.;
but the uneducated masses of people, who are forgotten, and many native peoples have no really detailed history. Archaeologists try and piece some of it together.

If you leave history per se out of it, yes, human civilizations tend to repeat the same errors, for details see, books by the experts:  Jarred Diamond and Marvin Harris.

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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: War and Peace [Re: Withinity]
    #23643506 - 09/14/16 12:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Withinity said:

Why do we have such a gripe against the ego then?





I don't mean to paint the ego as the Devil.

But, unrecognized for what it is, it can cause much misery.

It binds us to other primates, in a good way, when we see a gorilla clap or beat his chest.

I'll never do another fist pump without thinking of my fellow primates.


Quote:

laughingdog said:

what is history?





A story we tell ourselves.

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Offlinezzripz
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Re: War and Peace [Re: Lion]
    #23643842 - 09/14/16 05:24 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

IF people, young men, loved war like you say, this does not explain the enormous expenditure for propaganda employed for people to accept war and going to war that is done by the ruling classes.

IF you think young men 'love' war, checkout the many who experiencing NOT the 'romantic ideal' (which also makes me wanna puke that people would even think like that), but the horrific reality of war and how they naturally humanly suffer what is called post traumatic stress disorder, which by the way this totally fked up warmongering culture has no answer for and even bans drugs that could help ease the suffering of people going through it, like MDMA for example.

No, this ultra sick culture would rather develop and push a drug that makes the victims robotically 'forget' their trauma as though they were machines (which is what they think of us and try and make us think we are!) No doubt to have them return to their fabricated evil wars--which profit the war-makers greatly!

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OfflineLion
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Re: War and Peace [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23643874 - 09/14/16 05:46 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
IF people, young men, loved war like you say, this does not explain the enormous expenditure for propaganda employed for people to accept war and going to war that is done by the ruling classes.

IF you think young men 'love' war, checkout the many who experiencing NOT the 'romantic ideal' (which also makes me wanna puke that people would even think like that), but the horrific reality of war and how they naturally humanly suffer what is called post traumatic stress disorder, which by the way this totally fked up warmongering culture has no answer for and even bans drugs that could help ease the suffering of people going through it, like MDMA for example.

No, this ultra sick culture would rather develop and push a drug that makes the victims robotically 'forget' their trauma as though they were machines (which is what they think of us and try and make us think we are!) No doubt to have them return to their fabricated evil wars--which profit the war-makers greatly!


I don't think I disagree with anything you've said, but I think if you look at history, war has always been compelling for young men, and it has been considered virtuous by cultures on every continent and throughout many eras.  It has been viewed as a right of passage to manhood, a way to build social cohesion, a means of dissipating internal tensions in a society, and of course served people's ambitions of acquiring more resources and thus more comfort and security.

As I said, I don't think young men love the reality of war per se (though a significant amount of soldiers will tell you going to war was the best and most meaningful time of their lives), but that it is and has always been a seductive force for young men.   

I don't think any of that contradicts the fact that it usually serves a class of people who want power and use propaganda and fear-mongering to bring it about.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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