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OfflineHekate
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Registered: 12/23/12
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Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox
    #23634659 - 09/11/16 02:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hi everyone, I am creating this thread as an invitation for collective coherence on managing withdrawal symptoms of kratom.  People are in need of assistance and hopefully this thread can provide the help needed to minimize the discomfort and dysphoria of withdrawal.

Please share any information you have about taper schedules, plants, other drugs, activities, etc that can help see one through completion of kratom detox.

I have used it for 3 years and have struggled with restless leg syndrome since a child. I took rx for nearly a decade before weaning myself off.

Withdrawals can be tough, and kratom is no exception.  I am currently taking 30 grams a day, which is already a reduction.  I have a taper plan to reduce by 4 grams every 10 days and my dosing is consistent with alternating larger dose and then smaller dose each 6 hour period.  I think what counts the most is the consistency and persistence.  I'm making progress and am 1 day away from my next dose reduction.

I got some rhodiola rosea tabs but have yet to test them out.  It is supposed to help curb the symptoms and I'm going to try to employ this a the daytime assist.  I am contemplating ashwaganda as the nightime assist as well as maybe alternating with kava extract, valerian, chamomile.

I saw mention of akuamma seeds, I am interested in this but I want to be careful not to prolong the kratom addiction nor begin another one.

I will not go into detail about the wd symptoms or my condition because that doesn't really matter, most reading this thread probably don't need an explanation of either. The exception would be trying to address withdrawals per given symptom.

Please contribute anything you may consider helpful; there are going to be a lot of people searching for ways to help themselves during and after the pending ban. Your wisdom can save a lot of suffering.


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Offlinegoldcaphunter
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Hekate]
    #23634667 - 09/11/16 03:12 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Just roll around in your own vomit until the ants aren't crawling around the topside of your brain.

But for real
Dph for nausea
Lots of water(you'll be sweating a lot, possibly puking, and probably diarrhea)
A blanket for comfort
A shoulder to cry on

I don't see many people having trouble with wd from kratom at normal doses tho.
That brings me to what the FUCK are you taking 30 grams of kratom a day for man? No offense.


--------------------

The picture to the far left is a reminder to our users to stay safe and healthy, that's my third open heart surgery due to over use of amps. Stay safe kiddos :wink:


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Invisibletdubz
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: goldcaphunter]
    #23634668 - 09/11/16 03:14 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I have to take a lot too in order to get any effects maybe not that much but easily 10-15 grams


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InvisibleI_was_the_walrus
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Hekate] * 2
    #23634670 - 09/11/16 03:16 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

When you need opiates to ween yourself from a kratom addiction


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: I_was_the_walrus]
    #23634686 - 09/11/16 03:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I recommend decreasing your dose by about 0.5g every dose every week. Adjust your dosage to feel more comfortable.


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InvisibleShroomopotamus
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #23634691 - 09/11/16 03:44 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

hella edibles & grateful dead


--------------------
*
Live by the mushroom, die by the mushroom
:mushroom2::rainbowdrink:
This is a trap! A trap! You are all busted! Busted! You fools!
:twirlyface:

If a time comes where I fail to appear I've been abducted and I will miss you all
Please smile and pet puppies as often as possible
Be happy
Be nice
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OfflineHekate
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: I_was_the_walrus]
    #23634692 - 09/11/16 03:44 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

An ounce a day would be typical for someone who is addicted.  I've been taking it for years now.  And you can expect that there are people who are going to go through serious suffering trying to get off.  It is not abnormal for people to go days without sleeping as a cold turkey response.
I would like this thread to induce harm reduction and give others the opportunity to avoid transitioning into another addiction.

I used kratom to get off rx meds that I used for true rls.  Instead of weaning on kratom, I enjoyed using it and developed a tolerance.  It's all too common of a story, but one I share.

I welcome this opportunity to quit my procrastination of use and am fortunate enough to have the wisdom to approach this with some strategy, but I don't know everything and there are people who know a hell of a lot more than me, so if you have suggestions, please post.  This isn't about me as much as it's about providing a resource for people who need it.


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InvisibleLSDollar
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Hekate]
    #23634867 - 09/11/16 07:23 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I cold turkeyed it a couple times..First time, cake walk. Second time it wasn't too bad. Third time hit me like a ton of bricks. Still had insomnia, anxiety, hot/cold flashes 2 weeks later. That was a kilo a month habit, 3-4 doses a day.

I cut that back to dosing 2-3 days a week, with one dose those days. Tolerance is next to none now, and I feel good if I skip a couple days, not totally wiped out, but cant sleep...RLS,the shits, back pain, flu like symptoms.


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OfflineYage
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: LSDollar]
    #23634884 - 09/11/16 07:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Start lowering your doses now. I had to stop twice and it sucked for two days but after that i felt like a million bucks. But that million bucks doesn't last so you might have to start reading or metal detecting for war relics.
:manvsfish:


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Hekate]
    #23634994 - 09/11/16 08:29 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I have lots of experience with Kratom withdrawal.

The worst parts of it as the twitching , restless legs and insomnia followed by lethargy, apathy, and depression.

The good news is that pregabalin or gabapentin completely eliminates Kratom WD IME.

If you can get pregabalin you have nothing to worry about. It eradicates the twitching and insomnia , allows you to sleep soundly, and even masks the dysphoria and provides energy .

When I quit Kratom I just take pregabalin for three days and after that the WD is over.

It is by far the best and most effective thing for Kratom WD IME.

In terms of replacing Kratom long term, I personally love S Adenosyl methionine .

This natural daily supplement is an amazing antidepressant that provides an energized euphoria that is just lovely.

So taking pregabalin for the first few days of WD and starting daily long term SAMe treatment is for me the best way to get off Kratom.

I have used small amounts of isopropylphenidate to overpower the lethargy and fatigue and get some stuff done but this isn't really necessary if you have pregabalin and SAMe.

Other things that help to a much lesser extent during  WD are cannabis, coffee, benzos and tianeptine .

Tianeptine is an inferior option to SAMe but if you can't afford SAMe tianeptine is my second choice for an antidepressant .

As a mu opioid agonist and antidepressant and anxiolytic tianeptine should help Kratom WD to some extent .

Again though all you need is pregabalin and gabapentin for the WD and SAMe for ongoing euphoria and energy and mood boost.

I can't stress enough that pregabalin alone makes Kratom WD absolutely painless for me, while without it it can be quite unpleasant and incapacitating .


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Moonshoe] * 7
    #23635077 - 09/11/16 09:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
I have lots of experience with Kratom withdrawal.

The worst parts of it as the twitching , restless legs and insomnia followed by lethargy, apathy, and depression.

The good news is that pregabalin or gabapentin completely eliminates Kratom WD IME.

If you can get pregabalin you have nothing to worry about. It eradicates the twitching and insomnia , allows you to sleep soundly, and even masks the dysphoria and provides energy .

When I quit Kratom I just take pregabalin for three days and after that the WD is over.

It is by far the best and most effective thing for Kratom WD IME.

In terms of replacing Kratom long term, I personally love S Adenosyl methionine .

This natural daily supplement is an amazing antidepressant that provides an energized euphoria that is just lovely.

So taking pregabalin for the first few days of WD and starting daily long term SAMe treatment is for me the best way to get off Kratom.

I have used small amounts of isopropylphenidate to overpower the lethargy and fatigue and get some stuff done but this isn't really necessary if you have pregabalin and SAMe.

Other things that help to a much lesser extent during  WD are cannabis, coffee, benzos and tianeptine .

Tianeptine is an inferior option to SAMe but if you can't afford SAMe tianeptine is my second choice for an antidepressant .

As a mu opioid agonist and antidepressant and anxiolytic tianeptine should help Kratom WD to some extent .

Again though all you need is pregabalin and gabapentin for the WD and SAMe for ongoing euphoria and energy and mood boost.

I can't stress enough that pregabalin alone makes Kratom WD absolutely painless for me, while without it it can be quite unpleasant and incapacitating .



It's posts like this that got kratom scheduled with heroin.  Great job, ignorant.


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Offlinexbloodwhipx

Registered: 02/24/12
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: California] * 4
    #23635154 - 09/11/16 09:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

How to withdrawal from kratom.

1). Quit kratom (I quit 25 grams a day in may after 5 months of daily use cold turkey)
2). feel slightly anxious and have a slight headache for 1-3 days
3). Good job?

Seriously, kratom addiction is a joke...


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: California]
    #23635168 - 09/11/16 09:51 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

What are you talking about ?

Kratom dependence and withdrawal is very real and can be very unpleasant.

Many people will be suffering from it after the ban.

Those people will be grateful for the relief pregabalin can offer .

There is nothing "ignorant" about my post, unlike your own.

:fuckyou:


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineLove_spirit
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Hekate]
    #23635207 - 09/11/16 10:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You should never have to suffer through anything. If you're feeling bad take some more of whatever you have and wait for a day when it's naturally easier to quit. Do this even if it doesn't fit any plan's you've made. suffering is often a choice:smile:


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Invisibleluvdemboomers
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Love_spirit]
    #23635236 - 09/11/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I feel real bad for the people that take kratom for chronic pain who are unable or unwilling to take real opiates.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: xbloodwhipx]
    #23635292 - 09/11/16 10:39 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Having been through the entire process of Kratom withdrawal more than once, I know from personal experience what I am talking about .

For people with longer term heavier habits , total inability to sleep at all For up to 3-5 days is in store with severe twitching and spasming that is almost seizure like .

Those of you who don't realize that this level of withdrawal happens with Kratom are simply ignorant .

I for one can't function and work my job without sleeping for days .

Therefore the withdrawal can be a lot more than a minor inconvenience .

If you have a job and other responsibilities total insomnia for 3-5 days is debilitating .

Pregabalin completely solves these problems for me.

Other people will face the same issues and it's for their benefit that I share
This tip.


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #23635293 - 09/11/16 10:40 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

For people that experience kratom withdrawal:  how long after your last dose does the withdrawal begin?

24h after dosing kratom I usually feel pretty ok.  24h after dosing on heroin I am starting to feel awful, though the worst doesn't come until 36-48 hours.  Am I just not waiting long enough, or is really not that bad?

I usually take 1 heaping teaspoon once per day, which I estimate to be between 15 and 20 grams.  I've gone down from three of these per day to one in the past three weeks with really no discomfort.  I actually am feeling better and better as it goes on.

Part of me is scared to stop, especially since being sick isn't the worst part for me, it is just dealing with life sober, but it seems like the withdrawal won't be that bad.  If it only lasts a couple days, I'm gonna be fine.'

My advice: loperamide for loose bowels, regular meals, exercise as soon as possible.  Get a job or a hobby or something and just do it even though you will get no joy out of life for a while.  Stay away from alcohol and tobacco, don't smoke too much weed or it will stop helping and make things worse.


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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: luvdemboomers]
    #23635296 - 09/11/16 10:40 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Kratom wd? Just man up for a week tops and it'll pass.

I do that with opiates and it works. People try to use whatever they can to ease their suffering and imo it just prolongs the suffering.

You have to pay the price...


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #23635324 - 09/11/16 10:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yea it will pass and it will be cake compared to most other addictive drugs withdrawal.

I have done it cold turkey without any Comfort Meds and although it sucked a lot it wasn't that awful because I was on Vacation In Europe .

Even in the height of the WD I was hiking in the Swiss Ålps and partying at the Berlin pride festival .

So it's not like I was puking and shitting myself bed ridden.

But if I had to work during that period it would really have been tough .

Having kicked both cold turkey and with pregabalin I know doing it with pregabalin is infinitely easier and more pleasant.

If you have a week off work , no sweat. But I can function at work on Multiple days without sleep.

Generally Kratom wd starts about 24 hours from last dose and can be worse after like 48.

After 3 days the worst is over and after 5 it's completely in the past .

Don't psyche yourself out it won't be too bad no Mather what, but if you are struggling it's comforting to know you can take things to make it easier .

The bigger issue is many people are using Kratom to treat depression and that can make quitting much harder than the withdrawal itself .

This is where SAMe comes in . SAMe is also great for arthritis pain which is another
Thing many use Kratom for .


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23635348 - 09/11/16 11:01 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ok thanks man.  I am going to taper way down if I can.  I've definitely seen alot worse from the sounds of it, so perhaps it will be a cakewalk for me.  Like I said tho, the real challenge is staying clean once my day to day life grinds on me.

I have always said, 'sick is sick'.  People who say shit like, "Oh kratom withdrawal is nothing, you shouldn't even talk about it" are just assholes.  Once you're sick enough that it is effecting your life and preventing you from feeling ok, it is a problem.  Especially if you have other underlying problems that lead you to getting hooked in the first place, shit can get serious without having to be puking and shitting your pants.  It's suffering, and it's too easy to say "oh your suffering isn't that bad" when you're not the one going through it. 

Also trying to blame any user from kratom being made illegal is seriously misplacing blame.  Like c'mon, get your shit straight.


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InvisibleModestMouse
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: xbloodwhipx]
    #23635349 - 09/11/16 11:02 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Says the guy who got butthurt when I called amphetamine addiction a joke :lol:

I kind of agree though quitting Kratom should not be a "find God within yourself" scenario.
I'm currently suffering through and trying to escape a viscous heroin addiction though, so I sympathize with similar feelings.

I'm gonna try potomus' method of edibles and jam music


--------------------
Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Hekate]
    #23635367 - 09/11/16 11:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I think some people take longer to withdrawal from opiates, some people will be over and done with the worst stuff after 5-7 days, others will still be suffering two weeks in.  I think the people that take longer to detox, are prone to depression, anxiety, and other mental health disorders in their sober lives, so withdrawal is prolonged because much of what they're experiencing is psychosomatic because of losing their security blanket, i.e. drugs.

I would fall into the prolonged category.


--------------------
©️


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InvisibleMush 4 Brains
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Lucis] * 1
    #23635419 - 09/11/16 11:25 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

"The bigger issue is many people are using Kratom to treat depression and that can make quitting much harder than the withdrawal itself"

Truth.

Quote:

Fennario said:
I think some people take longer to withdrawal from opiates, some people will be over and done with the worst stuff after 5-7 days, others will still be suffering two weeks in.  I think the people that take longer to detox, are prone to depression, anxiety, and other mental health disorders in their sober lives, so withdrawal is prolonged because much of what they're experiencing is psychosomatic because of losing their security blanket, i.e. drugs.

I would fall into the prolonged category.



I agree. The physical part of wd is nothing to me. Oddly enough just accepting that im going to feel like shit for a while makes things easier. Any relief i get is unexpected and all the sweeter.

The psychological aspect to abstaining is whats always been hell for me. Will i ever be happy again without opiates i ask myself.

I believe that long term opiate abuse does something to your brain and can cause long term if not indefinite depression..

I use opiates now days not to catch a buzz but as an antidepressant


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #23635453 - 09/11/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mush 4 Brains said:
The psychological aspect to abstaining is whats always been hell for me. Will i ever be happy again without opiates i ask myself.





I had two years of my life where I was stone cold sober, not a single thing except caffeine. 

I workout 6-7 days out of the week, and will do that until I die because I love it so much, and yes it makes me feel great because you get the natural high from it, but that high doesn't last long enough, so once I am around regular life stuff, I tend to go back to being withdrawal and shut down due to anxiety.

There's another thing going on with my mind though, but I don't want to talk about that now, so some of my being withdrawal is normal, but I don't see how I can live a regular life, and do all that adults are supposed to do, without something to help me slow my mind down and think straight.  I have tried many ways without substances, none worked long enough to be beneficial.

So I can relate to what you're saying.  I really have tried to do all the ways without substances, it's just not enough.


Quote:

Mush 4 Brains said:
I believe that long term opiate abuse does something to your brain and can cause long term if not indefinite depression.




I think I read some place that there's some truth to that, I think any substance used for long periods of time, can "rewire" the brain.


Quote:

Mush 4 Brains said:
I use opiates now days not to catch a buzz but as an antidepressant





I don't get high on kratom, never have, never will. 

I honestly use it just to manage depression/anxiety, and it works fairly well for that.


--------------------
©️


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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Lucis]
    #23635547 - 09/11/16 12:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I take 1-2g a time 2-3 times daily and have yet to experience  any real withdrawals

This has led me to believe perhaps they are only present with large doses.

So as others said slowly lower your dose until you are barely taking any, could help.


--------------------
Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free



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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: musiclover420]
    #23635931 - 09/11/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I know SunnyD complained of similar withdrawals to what I got despite talking only very small doses

In general though the lower your doses and the shorter your period of daily use the less withdrawal you will get and many who don't have heavy habits likely won't notice much of anything


--------------------


Everything I post is fiction.


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OfflineHekate
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23635981 - 09/11/16 02:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thank you Blue Mantis for your highly useful contributions. It has been extremely insightful.


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Invisibleopenmind
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: musiclover420] * 1
    #23636240 - 09/11/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:


Again though all you need is pregabalin and gabapentin for the WD...






But doesn't one need a prescription to acquire those?








Quote:

moonrockmushy said:


I usually take 1 heaping teaspoon once per day, which I estimate to be between 15 and 20 grams.....






A teaspoon, even heaping, is no where near that much....A level teaspoon is generally around 1.8g to 2.2g .









Quote:

musiclover420 said:
I take 1-2g a time 2-3 times daily and have yet to experience  any real withdrawals

This has led me to believe perhaps they are only present with large doses.





That's been more or less my intake over the past two years. I take a teaspoon (right around 2g), two to three times a day.




The first couple years I took kratom, the W/D was virtually non-existent when I would take a break. I've been taking kratom practically daily at that dosage for a few years now, and now I definitely start to get mild W/D symptoms within 12 hours or so from my previous dose. Even just tapering down my intake by taking 2/3rds of a teaspoon per dose, rather than a full teaspoon, makes me feel some W/D trickling in.


My eyes get watery/teary, I'm lethargic and have very little energy during the day, aches & pains, lots of anxiety, somewhat depressed feeling, restless legs when I lay for sleep.


But I suppose a lot of that is more or less returning back to how I felt before I started taking the leaf, and I think my opioid system is a bit different than others as I've always been super super sensitive to opioids...My use of the leaf was as a medicine, I wasn't taking the leaf purely to catch a buzz, I take it mostly for anxiety, for the mild aches & pains I have in my back, it got me out of my head and more social and gave me a boost of energy with out feeling stimulated (I've always been a low energy person)....It's like a replacement for a pain killer, benzo, and adderall all in one for me, though more benign yet more effective than all of those, and with fewer side effects.




I started tapering down the day after I heard about the ban...I'm now taking around 1/2 to 2/3rds of a teaspoon three times a day.






-OM


.


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Edited by openmind (09/11/16 04:17 PM)


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: openmind]
    #23636246 - 09/11/16 04:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

openmind said:
...


Quote:

moonrockmushy said:


I usually take 1 heaping teaspoon once per day, which I estimate to be between 15 and 20 grams.....






A teaspoon, even heaping, is no where near that much....A level teaspoon is generally around 1.8g to 2.2g .


...


.



I mean a tablespoon.


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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: openmind]
    #23636254 - 09/11/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yes although both can be obtained On clear net in Canada fortunately


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23636261 - 09/11/16 04:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:

I mean a tablespoon.






A level tablespoon is around 5.5g to 7g depending on how fine the grind is...heaping, add another gram or two at the very most.





-OM


.


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: openmind]
    #23636278 - 09/11/16 04:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

:guiltyascharged: I would be happy if you are correct, but when I say heaping I mean as much as I can physically hold in and above a spoon.  There is probably more above the level line than below it.

I should just buy a scale, but I don't really care too much volume works for me.


Edited by moonrockmushy (09/11/16 04:20 PM)


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23636283 - 09/11/16 04:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Yes although both can be obtained On clear net in Canada fortunately






Unfortunately, I'm in the states.


I am going to get some tianeptine though. Not as a direct daily replacement for kratom, but to stretch out my supply of kratom and just to have something else on hand .



Ughh...goes with out saying, but this whole ordeal pisses me off so damn much. 5 years ago when I found kratom I was so stoked to finally have a medicine that was relatively mild and actually did the trick for me, it's my panacea .





-OM


.


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23636307 - 09/11/16 04:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
:guiltyascharged: I would be happy if you are correct, but when I say heaping I mean as much as I can physically hold in and above a spoon.  There is probably more above the level line than below it.

I should just buy a scale, but I don't really care too much volume works for me.






With my tablespoon, there's no way I could fit 15g to 20g in/on it, that's 3 to 4 times more than what a level tablespoon would be. Basically saying you're scooping up 3 or 4 table spoons worth with one tablespoon.


But I guess it depends on the depth/width/shape of the spoon you have, it might be able to hold a larger heaping pile on top than mine maybe :shrug: ....I'd say the most heaping of heaps off a tablespoon would be 10g at most.



For the longest time I thought I was taking around 4g to 5g per dose/per teaspoon scoop, then I realized a teaspoon was only around 2g. I was wanting to get a scale for consistency of dosage, but I too just stuck with a teaspoon as my unit of measurement.







-OM


.


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: openmind]
    #23636335 - 09/11/16 04:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I only get minor WD's from Kratom, however everyone is different.
I found loperamide to be the most effective way to beat any kind of opiate related WD's, aside form Kratom itself.

If you haven't researched loperamide, you should.
It sold OTC as an anti diaretic, aka immodium.
Its an opiate, but doesn't cross the BBB so there is no buzz.


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: openmind]
    #23636651 - 09/11/16 06:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I will just order a scale and weigh out what I usually
Quote:

openmind said:
Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
:guiltyascharged: I would be happy if you are correct, but when I say heaping I mean as much as I can physically hold in and above a spoon.  There is probably more above the level line than below it.

I should just buy a scale, but I don't really care too much volume works for me.






With my tablespoon, there's no way I could fit 15g to 20g in/on it, that's 3 to 4 times more than what a level tablespoon would be. Basically saying you're scooping up 3 or 4 table spoons worth with one tablespoon.


But I guess it depends on the depth/width/shape of the spoon you have, it might be able to hold a larger heaping pile on top than mine maybe :shrug: ....I'd say the most heaping of heaps off a tablespoon would be 10g at most.



For the longest time I thought I was taking around 4g to 5g per dose/per teaspoon scoop, then I realized a teaspoon was only around 2g. I was wanting to get a scale for consistency of dosage, but I too just stuck with a teaspoon as my unit of measurement.







-OM


.




This is what I would say is an average dose for me:



12g I guess.  I could probably fit another 5g in there if I wasn't scraping the bottom of the bag to get it in, but usually I get as much as I can on it, then shake it off until it is like this.


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23636694 - 09/11/16 06:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I limit my doses to one level teaspoon every few hours


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23636743 - 09/11/16 06:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Id surmise that almost any substance you rely on (lope excluded)to treat your kratom wd that is actually effective, puts you in the position where youre just switching one addiction for another of similar magnitude.


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: DeeMasta]
    #23636766 - 09/11/16 06:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DeeMasta said:
If you haven't researched loperamide, you should.
It sold OTC as an anti diaretic, aka immodium.
Its an opiate, but doesn't cross the BBB so there is no buzz.





Is this MoonShoe approved?


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #23636787 - 09/11/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Not really. The Kratom WD only lasts 3-5 days, and that's not long enough to develop a dependence to any of the things I mentioned .

So I can and have used pregabalin for the 3-4 days of Kratom WD, which isn't nearly long enough to become addicted to the pregabalin.

Yes if you persist in Using pregabalin daily for a prolonged time you will get a worse dependence than the one you had to Kratom, but using pregabalin or tianeptine or whatever for 3-4 days until the Kratom wd has passed won't cause a new addiction.

SAMe meanwhile isn't addictive and has no WD.

That's the beauty of it.

You take pregabalin for say 4 days, the Kratom WD passes painlessly and you stop taking pregabalin and you are done without experiencing any hardship at all.

The only drug that you can get withdrawal in only 3 days of use is phenibut and I don't recommend using that at all.

And yes loperamide is Moonshoe approved and will definitely help wd.


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23636925 - 09/11/16 07:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Sounds like switching apples for apples to me..Enjoy your temporary illusions though

Sound familiar you damn hypocrite? lol


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23636951 - 09/11/16 07:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Not really. The Kratom WD only lasts 3-5 days, and that's not long enough to develop a dependence to any of the things I mentioned .

So I can and have used pregabalin for the 3-4 days of Kratom WD, which isn't nearly long enough to become addicted to the pregabalin.

Yes if you persist in Using pregabalin daily for a prolonged time you will get a worse dependence than the one you had to Kratom, but using pregabalin or tianeptine or whatever for 3-4 days until the Kratom wd has passed won't cause a new addiction.

SAMe meanwhile isn't addictive and has no WD.

That's the beauty of it.

You take pregabalin for say 4 days, the Kratom WD passes painlessly and you stop taking pregabalin and you are done without experiencing any hardship at all.

The only drug that you can get withdrawal in only 3 days of use is phenibut and I don't recommend using that at all.

And yes loperamide is Moonshoe approved and will definitely help wd.





You got withdrawal in 3 days from taking phenibut? How much were you taking and how long did wd last?

I figured it'd take a couple weeks minimum... you sure it wasn't just rebound anxiety?


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #23636985 - 09/11/16 08:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Totally different.

Taking pregabalin for three days to quit kratom is not at all analogous to taking poppy pod tea every day long term.

One is quitting a daily habit, the other is maintaining a daily habit.

Poppy pod  and seed tea is literally straight opium. If you take poppy pod tea you are an opium addict exactly as if you smoked opium every day. Its literally the same alkaloids from the same plant.

Taking pregabalin for three days wont make you addicted to pregabalin.

The word hypocrite does not apply here.


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
    #23637024 - 09/11/16 08:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Lol yes it does. Youre still a hypocrite, actually worse because youre recommending switching to a more dangerous drug.

Never did i say i was taking poppy tea every day long term as a replacement. And it most certainly is a step down from iv heroin which was the subject of the other thread. To argue otherwise screams that you A)certainly have never done heroin and B)dont have a strong understanding of iv heroin use vs pst.

Also youre 3-4 day plan is just that, a plan. Everyone has a plan til they get punched in the face and addiction does just that.

Pop goes the weasel and the weasel goes POP! I caught you up in hypocrisy, admit it!


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Mush 4 Brains] * 1
    #23637058 - 09/11/16 08:25 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You are wrong. The term hypocrite does not apply at all in this situation.

Using pregabalin for three days to permanently quit kratom isnt even remotely analogous to having a daily pod tea habit.

It would be analogous if you took pod tea for three days to permanently quit heroin.

Pod tea and heroin are apples to apples. They are both literally different forms of the opiate poppy, and you are physically addicted to pod tea. You will get nasty withdrawal whenever you stop taking your tea.

Kratom and pregabalin are apples to oranges.  Totally different classes of drugs that act on totally different receptors. And using this method, you don't end up physically dependent on pregabalin. You won't withdraw from pregabalin after 3 days of use.

So on multiple levels these situations are not analogous, and therefore there is nothing hypocritical about me telling you that pod tea is just a different form of opium while also saying you can use pregabalin for three days to more painlessly quit kratom.


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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23637106 - 09/11/16 08:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Did you not read what i wrote or...?? Im not even going to repeat myself, re-read my post above but really read it this time. Then read your following post and notice your errors in the points youre debating with me on. Pst is totally a step down from iv heroin, to argue otherwise is just misinformation

Youre still totally a hypocrite and a drug snob as well. "Your" drugs and methods are kosher but not others. Switching one drug for another with worse withdrawals and side effects. Who is really gonna stop at day 3 realistically? If it works so well for kratom wd its highly likely one will either switch to it or revert back to kratom


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