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ModestMouse
IM WALKIN ON SUNSHINE


Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 19,227
Loc: Upstate
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: xbloodwhipx]
#23635349 - 09/11/16 11:02 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Says the guy who got butthurt when I called amphetamine addiction a joke 
I kind of agree though quitting Kratom should not be a "find God within yourself" scenario. I'm currently suffering through and trying to escape a viscous heroin addiction though, so I sympathize with similar feelings.
I'm gonna try potomus' method of edibles and jam music
-------------------- Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
Last seen: 1 month, 30 days
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Hekate]
#23635367 - 09/11/16 11:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think some people take longer to withdrawal from opiates, some people will be over and done with the worst stuff after 5-7 days, others will still be suffering two weeks in. I think the people that take longer to detox, are prone to depression, anxiety, and other mental health disorders in their sober lives, so withdrawal is prolonged because much of what they're experiencing is psychosomatic because of losing their security blanket, i.e. drugs.
I would fall into the prolonged category.
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Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 8,298
Loc: Tacos
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Lucis] 1
#23635419 - 09/11/16 11:25 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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"The bigger issue is many people are using Kratom to treat depression and that can make quitting much harder than the withdrawal itself"
Truth.
Quote:
Fennario said: I think some people take longer to withdrawal from opiates, some people will be over and done with the worst stuff after 5-7 days, others will still be suffering two weeks in. I think the people that take longer to detox, are prone to depression, anxiety, and other mental health disorders in their sober lives, so withdrawal is prolonged because much of what they're experiencing is psychosomatic because of losing their security blanket, i.e. drugs.
I would fall into the prolonged category.
I agree. The physical part of wd is nothing to me. Oddly enough just accepting that im going to feel like shit for a while makes things easier. Any relief i get is unexpected and all the sweeter.
The psychological aspect to abstaining is whats always been hell for me. Will i ever be happy again without opiates i ask myself.
I believe that long term opiate abuse does something to your brain and can cause long term if not indefinite depression..
I use opiates now days not to catch a buzz but as an antidepressant
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
Last seen: 1 month, 30 days
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
#23635453 - 09/11/16 11:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: The psychological aspect to abstaining is whats always been hell for me. Will i ever be happy again without opiates i ask myself.
I had two years of my life where I was stone cold sober, not a single thing except caffeine.
I workout 6-7 days out of the week, and will do that until I die because I love it so much, and yes it makes me feel great because you get the natural high from it, but that high doesn't last long enough, so once I am around regular life stuff, I tend to go back to being withdrawal and shut down due to anxiety.
There's another thing going on with my mind though, but I don't want to talk about that now, so some of my being withdrawal is normal, but I don't see how I can live a regular life, and do all that adults are supposed to do, without something to help me slow my mind down and think straight. I have tried many ways without substances, none worked long enough to be beneficial.
So I can relate to what you're saying. I really have tried to do all the ways without substances, it's just not enough.
Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: I believe that long term opiate abuse does something to your brain and can cause long term if not indefinite depression.
I think I read some place that there's some truth to that, I think any substance used for long periods of time, can "rewire" the brain.
Quote:
Mush 4 Brains said: I use opiates now days not to catch a buzz but as an antidepressant
I don't get high on kratom, never have, never will.
I honestly use it just to manage depression/anxiety, and it works fairly well for that.
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musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Lucis]
#23635547 - 09/11/16 12:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I take 1-2g a time 2-3 times daily and have yet to experience any real withdrawals
This has led me to believe perhaps they are only present with large doses.
So as others said slowly lower your dose until you are barely taking any, could help.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: musiclover420]
#23635931 - 09/11/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I know SunnyD complained of similar withdrawals to what I got despite talking only very small doses
In general though the lower your doses and the shorter your period of daily use the less withdrawal you will get and many who don't have heavy habits likely won't notice much of anything
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Hekate
Probiotic

Registered: 12/23/12
Posts: 68
Last seen: 6 years, 10 months
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Moonshoe]
#23635981 - 09/11/16 02:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thank you Blue Mantis for your highly useful contributions. It has been extremely insightful.
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,866
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: musiclover420] 1
#23636240 - 09/11/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said:
Again though all you need is pregabalin and gabapentin for the WD...
But doesn't one need a prescription to acquire those?
Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
I usually take 1 heaping teaspoon once per day, which I estimate to be between 15 and 20 grams.....
A teaspoon, even heaping, is no where near that much....A level teaspoon is generally around 1.8g to 2.2g .
Quote:
musiclover420 said: I take 1-2g a time 2-3 times daily and have yet to experience any real withdrawals
This has led me to believe perhaps they are only present with large doses.
That's been more or less my intake over the past two years. I take a teaspoon (right around 2g), two to three times a day.
The first couple years I took kratom, the W/D was virtually non-existent when I would take a break. I've been taking kratom practically daily at that dosage for a few years now, and now I definitely start to get mild W/D symptoms within 12 hours or so from my previous dose. Even just tapering down my intake by taking 2/3rds of a teaspoon per dose, rather than a full teaspoon, makes me feel some W/D trickling in.
My eyes get watery/teary, I'm lethargic and have very little energy during the day, aches & pains, lots of anxiety, somewhat depressed feeling, restless legs when I lay for sleep.
But I suppose a lot of that is more or less returning back to how I felt before I started taking the leaf, and I think my opioid system is a bit different than others as I've always been super super sensitive to opioids...My use of the leaf was as a medicine, I wasn't taking the leaf purely to catch a buzz, I take it mostly for anxiety, for the mild aches & pains I have in my back, it got me out of my head and more social and gave me a boost of energy with out feeling stimulated (I've always been a low energy person)....It's like a replacement for a pain killer, benzo, and adderall all in one for me, though more benign yet more effective than all of those, and with fewer side effects.
I started tapering down the day after I heard about the ban...I'm now taking around 1/2 to 2/3rds of a teaspoon three times a day.
-OM
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Edited by openmind (09/11/16 04:17 PM)
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: openmind]
#23636246 - 09/11/16 04:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
openmind said: ...
Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
I usually take 1 heaping teaspoon once per day, which I estimate to be between 15 and 20 grams.....
A teaspoon, even heaping, is no where near that much....A level teaspoon is generally around 1.8g to 2.2g .
...
.
I mean a tablespoon.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: openmind]
#23636254 - 09/11/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes although both can be obtained On clear net in Canada fortunately
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Everything I post is fiction.
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,866
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: moonrockmushy]
#23636261 - 09/11/16 04:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
I mean a tablespoon.
A level tablespoon is around 5.5g to 7g depending on how fine the grind is...heaping, add another gram or two at the very most.
-OM
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: openmind]
#23636278 - 09/11/16 04:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I would be happy if you are correct, but when I say heaping I mean as much as I can physically hold in and above a spoon. There is probably more above the level line than below it.
I should just buy a scale, but I don't really care too much volume works for me.
Edited by moonrockmushy (09/11/16 04:20 PM)
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,866
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Moonshoe]
#23636283 - 09/11/16 04:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: Yes although both can be obtained On clear net in Canada fortunately
Unfortunately, I'm in the states.
I am going to get some tianeptine though. Not as a direct daily replacement for kratom, but to stretch out my supply of kratom and just to have something else on hand .
Ughh...goes with out saying, but this whole ordeal pisses me off so damn much. 5 years ago when I found kratom I was so stoked to finally have a medicine that was relatively mild and actually did the trick for me, it's my panacea .
-OM
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openmind
curious


Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 13,866
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: moonrockmushy]
#23636307 - 09/11/16 04:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
I would be happy if you are correct, but when I say heaping I mean as much as I can physically hold in and above a spoon. There is probably more above the level line than below it.
I should just buy a scale, but I don't really care too much volume works for me.
With my tablespoon, there's no way I could fit 15g to 20g in/on it, that's 3 to 4 times more than what a level tablespoon would be. Basically saying you're scooping up 3 or 4 table spoons worth with one tablespoon.
But I guess it depends on the depth/width/shape of the spoon you have, it might be able to hold a larger heaping pile on top than mine maybe ....I'd say the most heaping of heaps off a tablespoon would be 10g at most.
For the longest time I thought I was taking around 4g to 5g per dose/per teaspoon scoop, then I realized a teaspoon was only around 2g. I was wanting to get a scale for consistency of dosage, but I too just stuck with a teaspoon as my unit of measurement.
-OM
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DeeMasta
Stranger



Registered: 06/03/10
Posts: 16
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: openmind]
#23636335 - 09/11/16 04:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I only get minor WD's from Kratom, however everyone is different. I found loperamide to be the most effective way to beat any kind of opiate related WD's, aside form Kratom itself.
If you haven't researched loperamide, you should. It sold OTC as an anti diaretic, aka immodium. Its an opiate, but doesn't cross the BBB so there is no buzz.
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moonrockmushy
High on Spite



Registered: 07/01/05
Posts: 19,067
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: openmind]
#23636651 - 09/11/16 06:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I will just order a scale and weigh out what I usually Quote:
openmind said:
Quote:
moonrockmushy said:
I would be happy if you are correct, but when I say heaping I mean as much as I can physically hold in and above a spoon. There is probably more above the level line than below it.
I should just buy a scale, but I don't really care too much volume works for me.
With my tablespoon, there's no way I could fit 15g to 20g in/on it, that's 3 to 4 times more than what a level tablespoon would be. Basically saying you're scooping up 3 or 4 table spoons worth with one tablespoon.
But I guess it depends on the depth/width/shape of the spoon you have, it might be able to hold a larger heaping pile on top than mine maybe ....I'd say the most heaping of heaps off a tablespoon would be 10g at most.
For the longest time I thought I was taking around 4g to 5g per dose/per teaspoon scoop, then I realized a teaspoon was only around 2g. I was wanting to get a scale for consistency of dosage, but I too just stuck with a teaspoon as my unit of measurement.
-OM
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This is what I would say is an average dose for me:

12g I guess. I could probably fit another 5g in there if I wasn't scraping the bottom of the bag to get it in, but usually I get as much as I can on it, then shake it off until it is like this.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: moonrockmushy]
#23636694 - 09/11/16 06:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I limit my doses to one level teaspoon every few hours
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Mush 4 Brains
about tree fiddy


Registered: 12/19/07
Posts: 8,298
Loc: Tacos
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Moonshoe]
#23636743 - 09/11/16 06:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Id surmise that almost any substance you rely on (lope excluded)to treat your kratom wd that is actually effective, puts you in the position where youre just switching one addiction for another of similar magnitude.
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plasma
ɹoʇɐɹǝpoɯ

Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 10,001
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: DeeMasta]
#23636766 - 09/11/16 06:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
DeeMasta said: If you haven't researched loperamide, you should. It sold OTC as an anti diaretic, aka immodium. Its an opiate, but doesn't cross the BBB so there is no buzz.
Is this MoonShoe approved?
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: Kratom Withdrawal - How To Detox [Re: Mush 4 Brains]
#23636787 - 09/11/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Not really. The Kratom WD only lasts 3-5 days, and that's not long enough to develop a dependence to any of the things I mentioned .
So I can and have used pregabalin for the 3-4 days of Kratom WD, which isn't nearly long enough to become addicted to the pregabalin.
Yes if you persist in Using pregabalin daily for a prolonged time you will get a worse dependence than the one you had to Kratom, but using pregabalin or tianeptine or whatever for 3-4 days until the Kratom wd has passed won't cause a new addiction.
SAMe meanwhile isn't addictive and has no WD.
That's the beauty of it.
You take pregabalin for say 4 days, the Kratom WD passes painlessly and you stop taking pregabalin and you are done without experiencing any hardship at all.
The only drug that you can get withdrawal in only 3 days of use is phenibut and I don't recommend using that at all.
And yes loperamide is Moonshoe approved and will definitely help wd.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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