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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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To the Vapers..
    #23632989 - 09/10/16 04:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

During the 'ease down' from recent mushrooms experiences whilst relaxing as the sun rises, I had a sudden bizzare, strong urge and idea of a hookah completing the deal to make things even more relaxing. The thought stemmed from an experience sitting in a pub a few years ago whilst smoking a berry flavoured hookah what was the center peice of every table. I enjoyed it thoroughly whilst drinking lager. 

In light of this, I seen that the vape pens on EBay were cheap and so invested in a Zeltu Lite vape and bottle of non nicotine Detab blueberry juice to smoke only in those times mentioned above.

I received it today, loaded it with juice and inhaled a slight amount, then a standard amount which I would have usually taken on a cigarette (ex smoker of 13 years Drum tobacco, quit 8 years ago).Enjoyable as it was, my heart has been aching and palpitating for 10 hours right after the last inhalation.  Very prominent sickness and discomfort throughout that time.

Although I'm inclined to just avoid it given the severity of the side effect, My question is; is this likely to have been caused by the device or the juice?

Are there bad brands of juice?

Do new devices need to be warmed in? I.e am I inhaling toxins?

Is it just the consequence of using a cheap device? - same again, inhaling toxins perhaps?

As mentioned, the juice is non-nictotine.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (09/10/16 04:28 PM)


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Invisibleplasma
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23633007 - 09/10/16 04:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah man, a vape is a godsend during a trip.

I've read that there is a chemical in juice that is used on microwave popcorn and can cause "popcorn lung"
But, of course, it is unhealthier to smoke cigarettes for the slew of chemicals it contains


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: plasma]
    #23633034 - 09/10/16 04:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

plasma said:
Yeah man, a vape is a godsend during a trip.

I've read that there is a chemical in juice that is used on microwave popcorn and can cause "popcorn lung"
But, of course, it is unhealthier to smoke cigarettes for the slew of chemicals it contains




Good to hear. I thought the feeling was justified. :smile:

I'm just now dissapointed that I perhaps can't do it.

I previously read that it's generally clean additives in the juice, hence giving it a shot with the non nicotine.  My lungs were definately effected too, but that's perhaps expected, given the effect on the heart, though it could be vice-versa.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (09/10/16 04:43 PM)


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: plasma]
    #23633044 - 09/10/16 04:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

It could be your juice. Ive had a couple different brands that gave me bad/weird side Effects.


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OfflineLuSiD enthusiast
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: plasma]
    #23633050 - 09/10/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

plasma said:
Yeah man, a vape is a godsend during a trip.

I've read that there is a chemical in juice that is used on microwave popcorn and can cause "popcorn lung"
But, of course, it is unhealthier to smoke cigarettes for the slew of chemicals it contains



I have heard of popcorn lung but i have never  about it being from "a chemical in popcorn". The last bit sounds fishy to me.(almost like "this acid has no strychnine in it)

Honestly I've never heard anyone make a convincing argument as to what even causes popcorn lung either. And at the end of the day what does popcorn lung actually do? Causes discomfort in breathing? Sounds a hell of a lot more pleasant than CANCER.

(I know you didn't state this as a fact or anything so I'm not attacking you or anything, just the phrase "popcorn lung" has a habit of irritating me more than it should):shrug:


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Invisibleplasma
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: LuSiD enthusiast]
    #23633061 - 09/10/16 04:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

https://mic.com/articles/130069/will-vaping-give-you-popcorn-lung-here-s-the-truth#.HjQ1m9lDE

Quote:

Popcorn lung: In May 2000, a Missouri doctor contacted the state's Department of Health and Senior Services to report that eight of his patients who had formerly worked at a microwavable popcorn factory had an obstructive respiratory disease that looked like bronchiolitis obliterans. Half of them were on the list for lung transplants. After years of investigation, the CDC traced this ailment to diacetyl.

Diacetyl is a yellow-green flavoring chemical that has an intensely buttery flavor. It's one of the most prevalent ingredients in popcorn-flavoring compounds. Diacetyl is classified as "generally regarded as safe" by the FDA, the same classification given to caffeine and many spices. That is, it's safe to ingest — but inhaling it is a whole other story.

Many vape juices are made without diacetyl. It's not a necessary flavor additive.
Workers who had been close to vats that were giving off diacetyl vapor were found to have severely increased risk for lung disease, and diacetyl-induced bronchiolitis obliterans was henceforth referred to as "popcorn lung."

The vaping industry has known about the use of diacetyl as an e-liquid flavoring chemical for years, and it has been waging an internal war to identify juices that contain this chemical. Vendors will bluster about how their liquids don't contain traces of harmful flavorings, but because it's such an early, unregulated and under-examined industry, there's too much opacity to know when in the process of making an e-liquid — from the wholesaling of chemical compounds to the mixing of the juice — diacetyl makes its way into the product. For customers, the labels on e-liquids simply say "Natural and Artificial Flavors."





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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #23633062 - 09/10/16 04:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I've got another brand of Cherry Menthol ordered from EBay.

If I decide to try again, it's likely to be very gradually experimental.

It's fortunate I didn't have to work today, because it shut me down.


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23633080 - 09/10/16 04:41 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You may be allergic or have a bad reaction to one of the ingredients in your juice. Propylene glycol is an ingredient that people are often allergic to. Try VG only juices. If there was no nicotine in your juice, this should be the only reason you would have a sped up heart that I can think of.

I developed an allergy to PG after a couple years of vaping. Prompted me to quit vaping and smoking altogether since all my favorite juices were made with it.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: PatrickKn]
    #23633113 - 09/10/16 04:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
You may be allergic or have a bad reaction to one of the ingredients in your juice. Propylene glycol is an ingredient that people are often allergic to. Try VG only juices. If there was no nicotine in your juice, this should be the only reason you would have a sped up heart that I can think of.

I developed an allergy to PG after a couple years of vaping. Prompted me to quit vaping and smoking altogether since all my favorite juices were made with it.




Youve touched upon a point.

The hookah which I previously used for 30 mins with pleasure, had no 'throat hit', whereas the vape pen (juice) did, which was surprising,  I was thinking that I'm coming to close to the real feeling of smoking cigarettes which wasn't the intention.

Having researched, PG gives the throat hit and VG doesn't.

Can you suggest a good brand of containing VG?

80 / 20. PG, VG respectively seems like a common norm.


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23633127 - 09/10/16 04:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

PatrickKn said:
You may be allergic or have a bad reaction to one of the ingredients in your juice. Propylene glycol is an ingredient that people are often allergic to. Try VG only juices. If there was no nicotine in your juice, this should be the only reason you would have a sped up heart that I can think of.

I developed an allergy to PG after a couple years of vaping. Prompted me to quit vaping and smoking altogether since all my favorite juices were made with it.




Youve touched upon a point.

The hookah which I previously used for 30 mins with pleasure, had no 'throat hit', whereas the vape pen (juice) did, which was surprising,  I was thinking that I'm coming to close to the real feeling of smoking cigarettes which wasn't the intention.

Having researched, PG gives the through hit and VG doesn't.

Can you suggest a good brand of containing VG?

80 / 20. PG, VG respectively seems like a common norm.



Look up the user spacechimp. I just got some max vg juice from him and its awesome.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #23633129 - 09/10/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks. Is he / she in the US?


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Invisiblemoonrockmushy
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23633155 - 09/10/16 05:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

vape makes me sick too.  I don't know why, but I don't like the feeling.  I've quit smoking the past few days but vaping could never compare to me.  It feels wrong and doesn't have that smoky flavor.


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: plasma] * 1
    #23633169 - 09/10/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

plasma said:
I've read that there is a chemical in juice that is used on microwave popcorn and can cause "popcorn lung"
But, of course, it is unhealthier to smoke cigarettes for the slew of chemicals it contains




A more recent look at diacetyl,
Quote:

Vapors on average are exposed to nine micro-grams of diacetyl daily, while smokers are exposed to a daily dose of 6,718 micro-grams of diacetyl. Also Siegal wrote that the e-cigarette liquid with the highest level of diacetyl in the Harvard study exposed vapors to 239 micro-grams against 20,340 micro-grams of diacetyl for heavy smokers.

This shows that people who vape should not worry about contracting the diseases popcorn lung. Not only is the risk of diacetyl exposure far lower for vapers than for smokers but according to Critical reviews in Toxicology, “Smoking has not been shown to be a risk factor in bronchiolitis (Popcorn Lung).


So in conclusion if you Vape you have a far lower risk of contracting popcorn lung than someone who smokes traditional cigarettes.  Also if you smoke traditional cigarettes it is very unlikely that you will ever contract popcorn lung. The media totally exaggerated this Harvard study on the risk of popcorn lung from E-cigarettes.



http://vapingex.com/does-vaping-cause-popcorn-lung/


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: plasma] * 1
    #23633174 - 09/10/16 05:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

plasma said:
Yeah man, a vape is a godsend during a trip.

I've read that there is a chemical in juice that is used on microwave popcorn and can cause "popcorn lung"
But, of course, it is unhealthier to smoke cigarettes for the slew of chemicals it contains





Prob not gonna harm you in the amounts you will be exposed to... The studies that showed popcorn lung were from patients that were inhaling the stuff all day at factories or so... I do not have polcorn lung either. I dont even think fluid companies really use it either anymore

Also, nicotine is a cns stimulant... Prob why op had some negative side effects, and just probably used too much or had a bad reaction


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23633178 - 09/10/16 05:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Thanks. Is he / she in the US?



Yes


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InvisibleOhMrJohnson
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #23633196 - 09/10/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I love my vape when I'm tripping, I typically vape unflavored e-juice through a dripper at around 6-8mg nicotine, it has a really heavy throat hit similar to an American Spirit, which were/are my favorite cigarettes, the vape is the perfect replacement for me though, like I can switch back and forth between smoking and vaping and be equally satisfied


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: OhMrJohnson]
    #23633212 - 09/10/16 05:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I hate smoking cigs most of the time. However, while nicotine is not really an maoi, tobacco users supposedly show marked monoamine oxidase* inhibition, and it definitely helps ease the trip

Edit- forgot word


Edited by 404 (09/10/16 05:58 PM)


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Invisibleplasma
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: OhMrJohnson]
    #23633245 - 09/10/16 05:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I might have to give the unflavored a go. No flavor whatsoever? The flavors get old to me


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: 404]
    #23633333 - 09/10/16 05:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
I hate smoking cigs most of the time. However, while nicotine is not really an maoi, tobacco users supposedly show marked monoamine inhibition, and it definitely helps ease the trip



Im totally opposite, I am afraid of tabbaco products while tripping because it intensifies it so much for me its almost too intense.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: 404]
    #23633356 - 09/10/16 06:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Quote:

plasma said:
Yeah man, a vape is a godsend during a trip.

I've read that there is a chemical in juice that is used on microwave popcorn and can cause "popcorn lung"
But, of course, it is unhealthier to smoke cigarettes for the slew of chemicals it contains





Prob not gonna harm you in the amounts you will be exposed to... The studies that showed popcorn lung were from patients that were inhaling the stuff all day at factories or so... I do not have polcorn lung either. I dont even think fluid companies really use it either anymore

Also, nicotine is a cns stimulant... Prob why op had some negative side effects, and just probably used too much or had a bad reaction




My emphasis was on the fact that I used non nicotine juice since I'm aware of nicotine based side effects. I'm an ex smoker 13 years gone who naturally doesn't want to evoke that habit so non nicotine was the choice of juice. 

It was just for the purpose of mellow smoke and taste for 10 mins or so after mishroom ingestion once every few weeks.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (09/10/16 06:08 PM)


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Offlinespirit_shadow
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23633402 - 09/10/16 06:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

404 said:
Quote:

plasma said:
Yeah man, a vape is a godsend during a trip.

I've read that there is a chemical in juice that is used on microwave popcorn and can cause "popcorn lung"
But, of course, it is unhealthier to smoke cigarettes for the slew of chemicals it contains





Prob not gonna harm you in the amounts you will be exposed to... The studies that showed popcorn lung were from patients that were inhaling the stuff all day at factories or so... I do not have polcorn lung either. I dont even think fluid companies really use it either anymore

Also, nicotine is a cns stimulant... Prob why op had some negative side effects, and just probably used too much or had a bad reaction




My emphasis was on the fact that I used non nicotine juice since I'm aware of nicotine based side effects. I'm an ex smoker 13 years gone who naturally doesn't want to evoke that habit so non nicotine was the choice of juice. 

It was just for the purpose of mellow smoke and taste for 10 mins or so after mishroom ingestion once every few weeks.




What brand/flavor did you use?


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #23633541 - 09/10/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The brand is called 'Detab'.


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23633556 - 09/10/16 07:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Weird. Maybe its the nicotine alternative in it that caused the reaction.


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InvisibleOhMrJohnson
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: plasma]
    #23633596 - 09/10/16 07:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

plasma said:
I might have to give the unflavored a go. No flavor whatsoever? The flavors get old to me




It has a mildly sweet flavor at first depending on the VG ratio but after a couple weeks your taste buds get used to it and it loses the sweetness, becoming very neutral

The main reason I started using it was as a means to take breaks in between flavors, but I ended up liking it a lot more and kinda stuck with it, it doesn't start to taste weird or unpleasant like a lot of flavored juice does after running it for a while, plus it's so easy to make a caveman could do it


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OfflineLuSiD enthusiast
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: plasma]
    #23633680 - 09/10/16 07:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

plasma said:
https://mic.com/articles/130069/will-vaping-give-you-popcorn-lung-here-s-the-truth#.HjQ1m9lDE

Quote:

Popcorn lung: In May 2000, a Missouri doctor contacted the state's Department of Health and Senior Services to report that eight of his patients who had formerly worked at a microwavable popcorn factory had an obstructive respiratory disease that looked like bronchiolitis obliterans. Half of them were on the list for lung transplants. After years of investigation, the CDC traced this ailment to diacetyl.

Diacetyl is a yellow-green flavoring chemical that has an intensely buttery flavor. It's one of the most prevalent ingredients in popcorn-flavoring compounds. Diacetyl is classified as "generally regarded as safe" by the FDA, the same classification given to caffeine and many spices. That is, it's safe to ingest — but inhaling it is a whole other story.

Many vape juices are made without diacetyl. It's not a necessary flavor additive.
Workers who had been close to vats that were giving off diacetyl vapor were found to have severely increased risk for lung disease, and diacetyl-induced bronchiolitis obliterans was henceforth referred to as "popcorn lung."

The vaping industry has known about the use of diacetyl as an e-liquid flavoring chemical for years, and it has been waging an internal war to identify juices that contain this chemical. Vendors will bluster about how their liquids don't contain traces of harmful flavorings, but because it's such an early, unregulated and under-examined industry, there's too much opacity to know when in the process of making an e-liquid — from the wholesaling of chemical compounds to the mixing of the juice — diacetyl makes its way into the product. For customers, the labels on e-liquids simply say "Natural and Artificial Flavors."







I literally just read on reddit the other day about popcorn lung coming from popcorn, how it slipped my mind that badly idk :facepalm:

Someone posted a story on quitting their job in a microwaveable popcorn factory and he caused a huge pileup on an assembly line. Everyone was telling him he could sue because the boss didn't give him a gas mask.

:facepalm:


--------------------
I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed.
Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists.

I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke.


In erowid we trust.

Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.


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InvisibleOhMrJohnson
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: LuSiD enthusiast] * 2
    #23633736 - 09/10/16 08:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ya there's never been any cases of bronchiolitus obliterans (popcorn lung) being caused by vaping, or smoking for that matter, and cigarette smoke contains a loooot more diacetyl than most if not all vapor

The only cases of popcorn lung that ever occurred were in the lungs of a certain number of workers in a popcorn production plant.. these workers were inhaling hundreds of times more diacetyl on a daily basis than you or I ever would by smoking cigarettes or vaping


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: OhMrJohnson] * 2
    #23633800 - 09/10/16 08:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

:needsomeair: This thread is giving me the vapers


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: moonrockmushy] * 1
    #23633805 - 09/10/16 08:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

This thread is making me want to vape while eating popcorn.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: plasma] * 1
    #23634174 - 09/10/16 10:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If you vape, don't vape flavors that contain diacetyl.
If you smoke, don't smoke tobacco that contains additional chemicals (yes, this is a thing).


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: PatrickKn]
    #23635345 - 09/11/16 11:01 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
You may be allergic or have a bad reaction to one of the ingredients in your juice. Propylene glycol is an ingredient that people are often allergic to. Try VG only juices. If there was no nicotine in your juice, this should be the only reason you would have a sped up heart that I can think of.

I developed an allergy to PG after a couple years of vaping. Prompted me to quit vaping and smoking altogether since all my favorite juices were made with it.




What were the side effects you experienced?

Whilst I've been tempted just to leave it alone, I'm going to give it another try with the following precautions:

* Bin the old vape pen (which will have traces of PG still in it) and bought a new one.
* Bought 10ml food grade vegetable glycerol.
* Test before sleep to be able to slep off any ill effects.
* Test with a few no inhales. single inhale, then a few inhales, monitoring results between.
* All being well, hopefully adding in some peppermint concentrate to the VG to seal the deal.


I never imagined I'd be drawing out an action plan to enter the world of vaping, yet there it is. :grin:

It's an addition I'm keen to introduce to Friday's.


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OfflineLuSiD enthusiast
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23635518 - 09/11/16 12:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Your into plan seems needlessly complex. I would just buy a different rig or borrow a friends if your interested, if not then don't bother.

It makes me think of the type of people who try a fifth of a hit of acid and increase dosage 1/10th at a time just to avoid anxiety.:rofl:

Idk whatever works for you i guess. Just seems like that would be a pain in the ass is all.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: LuSiD enthusiast]
    #23635605 - 09/11/16 12:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LuSiD enthusiast said:
Your into plan seems needlessly complex. I would just buy a different rig or borrow a friends if your interested, if not then don't bother.

It makes me think of the type of people who try a fifth of a hit of acid and increase dosage 1/10th at a time just to avoid anxiety.:rofl:

Idk whatever works for you i guess. Just seems like that would be a pain in the ass is all.




The elaboration was tongue in cheek. I'm a cheeky cheeseburger. Don't relish the bun.

I'm using a new pen with the new stuff and if it has a bad effect then it gets ditched, but I am doing everything detailed since the sides weren't subtle. Not a pain in the ass. Just a new pen, base and flavour delivered.

Sans the elaboration, I don't get the amusement nor satisfaction of expression, but appreciate your input. :wink:


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (09/11/16 12:47 PM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23635639 - 09/11/16 12:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
The brand is called 'Detab'.





it's chinese juice. avoid it like the plague. there's plenty of juice vendors in the
UK that make custom, premium juices that will be 100x better


here's a starting point and if you have a few shops local to you, go in and look
into what they have, most have samples you can try to make sure you get something
you like

http://ecigsuk.org.uk/best-e-liquid-uk/


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #23635646 - 09/11/16 12:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

spirit_shadow said:
Weird. Maybe its the nicotine alternative in it that caused the reaction.





there is no nicotine alternative. they simply dont add nicotine


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23635667 - 09/11/16 12:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
The brand is called 'Detab'.





it's chinese juice. avoid it like the plague. there's plenty of juice vendors in the
UK that make custom, premium juices that will be 100x better


here's a starting point and if you have a few shops local to you, go in and look
into what they have, most have samples you can try to make sure you get something
you like

http://ecigsuk.org.uk/best-e-liquid-uk/




Ah, that perhaps explain woks Wong with it.

As above, I'm getting the VG to make the stuff myself so hopefully all will be well, assuming that too isn't Chinese.

I'll bare this in mind if I buy the pre made stuff. :thumbup:


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23635740 - 09/11/16 01:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I want to make a fart flavored vape juice. Just to keep around to share with individuals i dislike. "Oh mercy me, i seem to have the vapors."


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23635754 - 09/11/16 01:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
The brand is called 'Detab'.





it's chinese juice. avoid it like the plague. there's plenty of juice vendors in the
UK that make custom, premium juices that will be 100x better


here's a starting point and if you have a few shops local to you, go in and look
into what they have, most have samples you can try to make sure you get something
you like

http://ecigsuk.org.uk/best-e-liquid-uk/




Having just checked, the label reads 'Made in the EU'...


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23635776 - 09/11/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
The brand is called 'Detab'.





it's chinese juice. avoid it like the plague. there's plenty of juice vendors in the
UK that make custom, premium juices that will be 100x better


here's a starting point and if you have a few shops local to you, go in and look
into what they have, most have samples you can try to make sure you get something
you like

http://ecigsuk.org.uk/best-e-liquid-uk/




Having just checked, the label reads 'Made in the EU'...





then they're operating under the same name as a chinese manufacturer


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23635836 - 09/11/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yep, it's certainly possible. :thumbup:


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23635843 - 09/11/16 01:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Yep, it's certainly possible. :thumbup:



The website i checked said they use a nicotine alternative :/


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #23635868 - 09/11/16 01:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

spirit_shadow said:
The website i checked said they use a nicotine alternative :/





most companies I'm familiar with simply omit the nicotine. I'd be very wary of an undisclosed additive


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23635878 - 09/11/16 01:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
The brand is called 'Detab'.





it's chinese juice. avoid it like the plague. there's plenty of juice vendors in the
UK that make custom, premium juices that will be 100x better


here's a starting point and if you have a few shops local to you, go in and look
into what they have, most have samples you can try to make sure you get something
you like

http://ecigsuk.org.uk/best-e-liquid-uk/




Having just checked, the label reads 'Made in the EU'...





I did more checking and this is still highly suspect

http://www.dekangbio.com/company/manufacturing


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #23635921 - 09/11/16 02:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

spirit_shadow said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Yep, it's certainly possible. :thumbup:



The website i checked said they use a nicotine alternative :/




Here's the label.



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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23635935 - 09/11/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
The brand is called 'Detab'.





it's chinese juice. avoid it like the plague. there's plenty of juice vendors in the
UK that make custom, premium juices that will be 100x better


here's a starting point and if you have a few shops local to you, go in and look
into what they have, most have samples you can try to make sure you get something
you like

http://ecigsuk.org.uk/best-e-liquid-uk/




Having just checked, the label reads 'Made in the EU'...





I did more checking and this is still highly suspect

http://www.dekangbio.com/company/manufacturing




There's also mention of a 'secret formula' here...

http://www.dekangbio.com/company/detab

That could suggest anything simple though like a ratio of additives.


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23636031 - 09/11/16 02:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

PatrickKn said:
You may be allergic or have a bad reaction to one of the ingredients in your juice. Propylene glycol is an ingredient that people are often allergic to. Try VG only juices. If there was no nicotine in your juice, this should be the only reason you would have a sped up heart that I can think of.

I developed an allergy to PG after a couple years of vaping. Prompted me to quit vaping and smoking altogether since all my favorite juices were made with it.




What were the side effects you experienced?

Whilst I've been tempted just to leave it alone, I'm going to give it another try with the following precautions:

* Bin the old vape pen (which will have traces of PG still in it) and bought a new one.
* Bought 10ml food grade vegetable glycerol.
* Test before sleep to be able to slep off any ill effects.
* Test with a few no inhales. single inhale, then a few inhales, monitoring results between.
* All being well, hopefully adding in some peppermint concentrate to the VG to seal the deal.


I never imagined I'd be drawing out an action plan to enter the world of vaping, yet there it is. :grin:

It's an addition I'm keen to introduce to Friday's.




There's no need to toss a vape pen, you can clean out the parts with water and replace the coil. I don't know what kind of pens you're using, but the atomizers, or coils in the tanks are replaceable or should be. If you're using cheap disposable vapes, you should really invest in a nicer one as the disposable ones are garbage, typically made in china, and filled with who knows what. This is a good starting vape:

http://vapenw.com/vaporesso-target-2-vtc-75w-kit


On to symptoms I was experiencing. I had minor swelling of the throat and headaches. Pretty consistently whilst vaping. Most allergies are caused by exposure, so I think I just finally developed one. Not sure if it was an actual allergy or just another type of reaction however.


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: PatrickKn]
    #23636036 - 09/11/16 02:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

After reading about the nicotine alternative though, I'd say that's the cause of your heart palpitations before anything else. For sure.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: PatrickKn]
    #23636060 - 09/11/16 03:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
Quote:

PatrickKn said:
You may be allergic or have a bad reaction to one of the ingredients in your juice. Propylene glycol is an ingredient that people are often allergic to. Try VG only juices. If there was no nicotine in your juice, this should be the only reason you would have a sped up heart that I can think of.

I developed an allergy to PG after a couple years of vaping. Prompted me to quit vaping and smoking altogether since all my favorite juices were made with it.




What were the side effects you experienced?

Whilst I've been tempted just to leave it alone, I'm going to give it another try with the following precautions:

* Bin the old vape pen (which will have traces of PG still in it) and bought a new one.
* Bought 10ml food grade vegetable glycerol.
* Test before sleep to be able to slep off any ill effects.
* Test with a few no inhales. single inhale, then a few inhales, monitoring results between.
* All being well, hopefully adding in some peppermint concentrate to the VG to seal the deal.


I never imagined I'd be drawing out an action plan to enter the world of vaping, yet there it is. :grin:

It's an addition I'm keen to introduce to Friday's.




There's no need to toss a vape pen, you can clean out the parts with water and replace the coil. I don't know what kind of pens you're using, but the atomizers, or coils in the tanks are replaceable or should be. If you're using cheap disposable vapes, you should really invest in a nicer one as the disposable ones are garbage, typically made in china, and filled with who knows what. This is a good starting vape:

http://vapenw.com/vaporesso-target-2-vtc-75w-kit


On to symptoms I was experiencing. I had minor swelling of the throat and headaches. Pretty consistently whilst vaping. Most allergies are caused by exposure, so I think I just finally developed one. Not sure if it was an actual allergy or just another type of reaction however.




I was using a Zeltu Lite. £8.

I can still feeling the effects from yesterday though it's now minor, so don't want the smallest amount being inhaled, hence the idea just to bin it.

I didn't want to take the plunge on a more expensive vape unail I tested the water but it looks like I tested in dark water.


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23643994 - 09/14/16 07:40 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I've been test vaping raw VG in the new pen for the past 15 mins and it's absolutely fine.

It's definately something to do with the nicotine substitute in the last juice.


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl] * 1
    #23644049 - 09/14/16 08:26 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

my mod burned out after ripping some dank clouds. runnin hella ohms man. whats up


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: 1234go]
    #23644062 - 09/14/16 08:35 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ive never had a problem with my kbox 40w mod..Ive used it for a year or so now. I have had problems with it shorting out, but their dirt cheap..

I actually been vaping for 2-3 years now, started with 18mg juice, worked into 36mg very quickly. Smoked on that for 2+ years. I realized what was going on, and i cut it back bigtime. My next order I did 18mg, a few weeks later, i had one 18mg, and the rest 6mg. The next order after that, i had 1/2 6mg and 1/2 0mg. I have been up and down last month on how much I need. If I mix it to be 3mg nicotine, I have to hit my mod like crazy every half hour.

Working on it, I was easily set off the first couple times, now at 6mg or less, i am a-okay. I try to mix them 1/2 and 1/2. I think its more of a hobby, but never had issues like yours. I have had juice that tasted like sugar, or too sweet for my liking. I like the fruity flavors.


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: LSDollar]
    #23644077 - 09/14/16 08:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

shit bro i only started like 2 months ago and i burned this shit out, aint no one ever been able 2 match my clouds tho
i dont try to smoke harder but it just my nature i guess lol


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: 1234go]
    #23644085 - 09/14/16 08:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

1234go said:
shit bro i only started like 2 months ago and i burned this shit out, aint no one ever been able 2 match my clouds tho
i dont try to smoke harder but it just my nature i guess lol



:picdidnthappen:


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Invisible1234go
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #23644097 - 09/14/16 08:51 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

my homeboy didnt believe me either til i showed him.
i dont have it with me or id show you


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #23644110 - 09/14/16 08:56 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

On topic first:
what do you guys mean by nicotine substitute? Are you guys getting juice with something other than vg,pg and nic? Confused.

Off topic kinda:
I gotta assume you guys are running rda's right?

How do y'alls like to wick your shit?
Like a slow heating coil I like to keep the cotton pretty loose(like fluffy and not all rolled up) but I pack it into the coil pretty well so that it holds enough juice to not burn with the longer cool down time of a higher resistance build.

I don't like coils to heat up quickly because it always gives the vape a slightly...off taste...like toasty I guess lol.


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl] * 1
    #23644242 - 09/14/16 09:59 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)



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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: 1234go]
    #23644520 - 09/14/16 12:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

1234go said:
my mod burned out after ripping some dank clouds. runnin hella ohms man. whats up




Whatever you mean, it sounds good and looks like you are enjoying yourself.

A fantastic day to you Sir. :thumbup:


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: 1234go]
    #23644552 - 09/14/16 12:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

1234go said:
my homeboy didnt believe me either til i showed him.
i dont have it with me or id show you



Whats your build?


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23644567 - 09/14/16 12:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I like making my juice, have been for a couple years now.

I researched and found the best vg and all vg based nicotine I could find, I do the flavors I've found are almost always pg based, but it works out as I do a 80/20 ratio, and I prefer 20% flavor.  Costs me about a dollar or so per 30 ml bottle, and I know what's in it.

I've gotten bad nicotine before, ripped my throat up and made me feel sickish.  In the pro made ones, there are up to like 20 different things added, sweetener boosters, sour boosters (I use fresh lemon juice) alcohol, on top of the flavors themselves, that's why I just make my own.

Suicide Bunny makes some legit vape juice, bit it's stupid expensive


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23644577 - 09/14/16 12:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

moonrockmushy said:
vape makes me sick too.  I don't know why, but I don't like the feeling.  I've quit smoking the past few days but vaping could never compare to me.  It feels wrong and doesn't have that smoky flavor.



I'm now at the point where the smell and taste of cigarettes disgusts me. I forgot my vape once when I went out of town and tried smoking a cig to quench my nic cravings and it was awful. Id much rather taste Strawberry strudel while inhaling nicotine than tobacco. In this sense it also doubles a sweets craving quencher. I don't have to eat sweets so much because my vape tastes sweet.


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #23644579 - 09/14/16 12:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

im a vape noob, got it as a gift and i dont know the components yet. im learning!
wishin i could chuck clouds right now! lol. you ever been in one of those cloud blowing competition?


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: 1234go] * 3
    #23644593 - 09/14/16 01:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

There's cloud blowing competitions?....lol that's so gay




edit: guess I should add I quit cigs about a year ago and have been using a vape ever since before someone thinks I'm just being a dick for no reason.


Edited by SirShroomsAlott (09/14/16 01:08 PM)


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: 1234go]
    #23644601 - 09/14/16 01:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

1234go said:
im a vape noob, got it as a gift and i dont know the components yet. im learning!
wishin i could chuck clouds right now! lol. you ever been in one of those cloud blowing competition?



Haha no, I just like to tinker and wanted to quit cigs. But ever since I started wrapping coils im constantly trying to find/build crazy ones lol


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Invisible1234go
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #23644636 - 09/14/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

whats your beef with vapers bro?


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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: SirShroomsAlott] * 1
    #23644662 - 09/14/16 01:32 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Why are you being such a dick for no reason,ssa :shakefist:


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Registered: 05/15/14
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: goldcaphunter] * 1
    #23644687 - 09/14/16 01:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

:lol:

Cant help myself sometimes, definitely think unnecessarily massive clouds look pretty gay though, aint trying to take that back lol at least in public anyway

the first 4 months i used one thats all i wanted to do until i saw someone else do it in public and thought he looked like a douche trying to draw attention to himself. That was the moment i finally understood the phrase "we get it, you vape"


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Invisible1234go
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #23644817 - 09/14/16 02:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah saving lives is so retarded. I will never fucking understand people who rail against ecigs.
If you don't like it.. don't fucking do it. Fuck off with that bullshit mentality.

Who's blowing clouds in your face?
You know what's fucking stupid? Anti-vapers.


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InvisibleOhMrJohnson
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: 1234go] * 1
    #23645018 - 09/14/16 03:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Lol that was one hell of a heated debate we had


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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace..
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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: plasma] * 1
    #23645179 - 09/14/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

plasma said:
https://mic.com/articles/130069/will-vaping-give-you-popcorn-lung-here-s-the-truth#.HjQ1m9lDE

Quote:

Popcorn lung: In May 2000, a Missouri doctor contacted the state's Department of Health and Senior Services to report that eight of his patients who had formerly worked at a microwavable popcorn factory had an obstructive respiratory disease that looked like bronchiolitis obliterans. Half of them were on the list for lung transplants. After years of investigation, the CDC traced this ailment to diacetyl.

Diacetyl is a yellow-green flavoring chemical that has an intensely buttery flavor. It's one of the most prevalent ingredients in popcorn-flavoring compounds. Diacetyl is classified as "generally regarded as safe" by the FDA, the same classification given to caffeine and many spices. That is, it's safe to ingest — but inhaling it is a whole other story.

Many vape juices are made without diacetyl. It's not a necessary flavor additive.
Workers who had been close to vats that were giving off diacetyl vapor were found to have severely increased risk for lung disease, and diacetyl-induced bronchiolitis obliterans was henceforth referred to as "popcorn lung."

The vaping industry has known about the use of diacetyl as an e-liquid flavoring chemical for years, and it has been waging an internal war to identify juices that contain this chemical. Vendors will bluster about how their liquids don't contain traces of harmful flavorings, but because it's such an early, unregulated and under-examined industry, there's too much opacity to know when in the process of making an e-liquid — from the wholesaling of chemical compounds to the mixing of the juice — diacetyl makes its way into the product. For customers, the labels on e-liquids simply say "Natural and Artificial Flavors."








Yeah this has already been addressed here by several people but I am compelled to reply because this bullshit "study" won't die.

1. E-juice contains TRACE TRACE amounts of diacetyl in a WORST case scenario. Most contain none at all.
2. No vaper has ever gotten popcorn lung.
3, No CIGARETTE smoker has ever gotten popcorn lung. Cigarettes contain - on average - 500-700x MORE diacetyl than the worst E-juice this study tested.
4. The ONLY people we know of to get bronchiolitis obliterans from diacetyl were some popcorn factory workers from the 80s. They were inhaling MASSIVE amounts of POWDERED diacetyl on a DAILY basis over long periods of time with ZERO repirators or filters for the air. Pure powdered diacetyl acts on the lungs in a completely different manner than trace amounts in the smallest detectable quantities mixed with PG/VG. And there is no way to know for sure how much of it they were inhaling, but guaranteed it was a metric fuckload. No one since then that we know of has gotten bronchiolitis obliterans from diacetyl. And again I repeat.. no vaper OR cigarette smoker has ever gotten popcorn lung and cigarettes contain like 500x more diacetyl.
5. The "study" this was based on... was funded by Pfizer and Altria. Pfixer makes Chantrix, the stop smoking pharmaceutical, whos sales have plummeted since Ecigs. They have pumped millions and millions of dollars into trying to demonize Ecgis. Altria is pretty obvious. This viral BS "study" is just one of many. Before this it was that whole formaldehyde bullshit.

SO yeah. Complete and total bullshit. E-juice contains such small amounts of diacetyl even in a worse case scenario, it's not even a cause for concern.
But vendors are concerned about it anyway because of all the sensationalism around it... most vendors who used diacetyl in their ejuice changed their formula years ago to not use it.
Most ejuice on the market doesn't have any diacetyl period. Diacetyl is just used for most "bakery" or "custard" notes, it's an artificial butter flavor. But many vendors have since switched to alternative flavors to make a similar taste.

What they fail to mention is CIGARETTES contains diacetyl in FAR FAR FAR greater quantities (like 500x+ more, no joke), and NO cigarette smoker has ever gotten popcorn lung, and doctors say it's not even a concern for popcorn lung. It's the tar and benzene and shit you have to worry about.

So where's all the viral articles saying "CIGARETTES CAUSE POPCORN LUNG!!!11111 " . They don't exist because it's big tobacco and big pharma trying to demonize ecigs, while they cash in on it and make their own products.

SO yeah.. sorry for the novel.. but I had to clear some things up. The constant demonization of ecigs by the pharmaceutical and tobacco industry and the fact that these bought and paid for "studies" based on complete and total bullshit go viral every time... pisses me off to no end.

Right after this BS study came out, EVERY fucking news service was posting it like crazy. It went viral instantly. It's not based on science or real world evidence... like AT ALL.


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InvisibleOhMrJohnson
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Shroomism] * 1
    #23645246 - 09/14/16 04:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Truth bomb!!!!!!!!



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OfflineKonyap

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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: OhMrJohnson]
    #23645421 - 09/14/16 06:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

there's still some nasty shit in those things like diactyl

always remember that most things that are bad for you are so because they're legal and permanant


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Offlinedonaldkagan
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Konyap]
    #23645434 - 09/14/16 06:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Do a little more reading, I'd suggest grabbing a temperature control build and making your own coils, might sound daunting, but it's very simple and there are loads of instructions online.

TC will give you the safest experience, no combustion possible, much lower risk of toxic off gassing.


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אורים ותמים


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Konyap]
    #23645726 - 09/14/16 08:25 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Konyap said:
there's still some nasty shit in those things like diactyl

always remember that most things that are bad for you are so because they're legal and permanant




See two posts above yours.
Also... what nasty things? Care to elaborate on that?


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: donaldkagan]
    #23645736 - 09/14/16 08:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

donaldkagan said:
Do a little more reading, I'd suggest grabbing a temperature control build and making your own coils, might sound daunting, but it's very simple and there are loads of instructions online.

TC will give you the safest experience, no combustion possible, much lower risk of toxic off gassing.




What is TC? Trusted Combuster?


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #23645785 - 09/14/16 08:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Temperature Control


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Duncan Rowhl]
    #23645822 - 09/14/16 09:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Duncan Rowhl said:
During the 'ease down' from recent mushrooms experiences whilst relaxing as the sun rises, I had a sudden bizzare, strong urge and idea of a hookah completing the deal to make things even more relaxing. The thought stemmed from an experience sitting in a pub a few years ago whilst smoking a berry flavoured hookah what was the center peice of every table. I enjoyed it thoroughly whilst drinking lager. 

In light of this, I seen that the vape pens on EBay were cheap and so invested in a Zeltu Lite vape and bottle of non nicotine Detab blueberry juice to smoke only in those times mentioned above.

I received it today, loaded it with juice and inhaled a slight amount, then a standard amount which I would have usually taken on a cigarette (ex smoker of 13 years Drum tobacco, quit 8 years ago).Enjoyable as it was, my heart has been aching and palpitating for 10 hours right after the last inhalation.  Very prominent sickness and discomfort throughout that time.

Although I'm inclined to just avoid it given the severity of the side effect, My question is; is this likely to have been caused by the device or the juice?

Are there bad brands of juice?

Do new devices need to be warmed in? I.e am I inhaling toxins?

Is it just the consequence of using a cheap device? - same again, inhaling toxins perhaps?

As mentioned, the juice is non-nictotine.




After reading the whole thread... Pris pretty much nailed it I think.
You are vaping on chinese made E-juice.. Dekang has had some pretty serious issues in the past with heavy metal contamination, completely inaccurate nicotine levels, and more.
It is to be avoided like the plague. Even if it says made in EU, chances are the ingredients came from china.
I'll buy chinese hardware because well let's be honest it's practically unavoidable, but never ejuice.

Switch out the juice, buy something local, I'm not too hip on UK-made juices but the choices are endless here in the US.
E-juice is only as good as the person/company making it. Like in any business, some vendors are unscrupulous or use inferior ingredients.

You have to just start eliminating variables one at a time... start with the juice first.
Someone else mentioned PG.. that could be a possible culprit. Some people are sensitive to PG.
But my money is on the dekang and/or whatever the fuck their "nicotine alternative" is


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InvisibleOhMrJohnson
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: Shroomism]
    #23645828 - 09/14/16 09:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I've never used temp control in my life, str8 kanthal does the trick for me

But anyway, I think if vape was really as bad for the human body as some people say, we would already have tons of cases of vapers with fuqqered up respiratory/circulatory systems, some people have been chain vaping like it's their job for years, literally from the moment they wake up til the moment they go to sleep they inhale absolutely massive amounts of vapor without a fuck given, I should know cause I'm one of those people and let me tell ya, smoking one pack of cigarettes alone will cause me to hack up nasty black shit for almost a week, when I'm just vaping the black shit comes up faster and then it goes away


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Diminish the sub-principle and leave its toxic trace..
Once and for all!


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InvisibleShroomismM
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Re: To the Vapers.. [Re: OhMrJohnson]
    #23645841 - 09/14/16 09:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Same here man. I'm a fucking freight train. 30ml in a day is not uncommon... but usually 30ml lasts me 2 days. Completely anecdotal, but I've haven't been in such good cardio health since I was a kid and I'm almost 35. When I was smoking cigarettes I felt like shit all the time and was hacking up lungs and couldn't run 10 fucking feet without gasping for breath like I was about to die. I can run a full 50 yard sprint now no problem, I have endurance I haven't had since I was much younger. It's improved my health measurably.

And yeah there's people who have been vaping custards like it's their fucking job since day 1 and no one has come down with any serious health problems yet... so I'm gonna go with it's pretty fucking safe all things considered.
Until we start seeing people coming down with some crazy lung disease from vaping alone, I might change my tune. But so far it's got a fucking phenomenal track record.
Really the only wild variables are the retards doing stupid shit with modded mechs and chinese knock off batteries and running at like 0.0001 ohms and turning it into a pipe bomb.. or bad/fake batteries in general.
And chinese ejuice..


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