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Offlineshrumzen
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Registered: 09/07/16
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Casing layering question
    #23631852 - 09/10/16 10:40 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hi guys,

this is my first grow and the rye in my jars seemed to be fully colonized soon, ofc without any indication of contamination which I am very please about.

My plan is to case the rye in aluminium trays and use a mixture of peat, vermiculite and limestone as substrate like it is explained on the following mushroom growing site.

My substrate mix will be:

  • 10 parts of peat
  • 5 parts of coarse vermiculite
  • 2 parts of limestone


I was wondering what the exact layering order for the aluminium try should be. Starting from the bottom to the top:

My Idea:

1. Layer = 1cm substrate
2. Layer = colonized rye
3. Layer = 2cm substrate


Recommended on the mentioned website:

1. Layer = colonized rye
2. Layer = 1-2cm substrate


Question No1: Is it really better to pour the rye grains on the bare aluminium tray instead of a thin layer of substrate? My newb logic says that a extra bottom substrate layer might be a better fruiting condition because more nutrients are available. Ofc, I could be wrong here.

Question No2: Is my planned substrate mix good or do you have any suggestions for an improvement?

Any advise?

Thanks in advance!


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: shrumzen]
    #23631869 - 09/10/16 10:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, my advice is to not case rye. 

I would crumble into a bulk sub, let that colonize for 10 days, THEN case.


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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Offlineshrumzen
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: Mushierage]
    #23631908 - 09/10/16 10:53 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Any reason why to not case rye directly?

Quote:

Mushierage said:
I would crumble into a bulk sub, let that colonize for 10 days, THEN case.




How to do that exactly?


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: shrumzen]
    #23631926 - 09/10/16 10:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Look up damion5050s coir tek UTSE. 

I would suggest this to anybody trying to get into bulk, but needs a friendly tek to get them into it.

Grain as a substrate doesn't hold water very well at all.  It can be done, but it isn't really advisable.  You'll get much better yields if you just follow a bulk sub tek.


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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Invisibleblindingleaf
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: shrumzen]
    #23631933 - 09/10/16 10:58 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Post pictures of ur jars.

That ingredient mix is fine

You might want to case the jars
U might want to lay in a pan and case
You might want to spawn to bulk bucket tek coir if the jars are healthy

You do not want to mix ur grains with those ingredients though.  Just use that on top


--------------------
A few thoughts on cultivation
MICROBIAL HUSBANDRY!!!!

The whole is greater than the sum of its parts


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Offlineshrumzen
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: Mushierage]
    #23631958 - 09/10/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for "damion5050s coir tek UTSE".

I still wondering why you do not recommend direct casing because this website practice it with success.

If I want to case direct, would you use a substrate bottom layer or pour onto bare tray?


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: shrumzen]
    #23631978 - 09/10/16 11:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I told you why people don't case directly most of the time.  It's because grain does not hold water well.    The subtrate may not even get through the first flush before its dying of thirst because you are depriving it of water if you do not know what you are doing. 

Honestly the only reason I would directly case a jar or a tray of rye is if I was sure my spawn was bacterial.  There is literally no other benefit to casing rye to me.


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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Offlineshrumzen
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: blindingleaf]
    #23632032 - 09/10/16 11:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

blindingleaf said:
Post pictures of ur jars.














When Mushierage says, that it could dry out. I could to a 1cm perlite bottom layer and then pour rye over it and as top layer the substrate mix. Would that make sense?


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Edited by shrumzen (09/10/16 11:19 AM)


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: shrumzen]
    #23632038 - 09/10/16 11:19 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Um.... No.  That's makes absolutely no sense because that's a terrible idea.


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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Offlineshrumzen
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: Mushierage]
    #23632065 - 09/10/16 11:28 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Honestly, I appreciate your advise but it would be great if you could give me a more detailed explanation why not to do.

Perlite provides good moisture or am I wrong? So for me a Perlite bottom layer makes sense, when you say it could easily dry out.

You also  said " damion5050s coir tek UTSE" is the way to go, but this method seems to work too.

I am a newb and this is my first grow. I want to learn and I want to do it right.

Thanks.


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Edited by shrumzen (09/10/16 11:31 AM)


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: shrumzen]
    #23632153 - 09/10/16 12:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Perlite isn't good because it doesn't absorb water.  The reason we use perlite to humidify FCs is because of the reasonable large surface area it has, it makes it easy to use in conjunction with passive air flow because the this will evaporate the water from the surface.  Using it to hydrate a substrate though?  No.  Doesn't work.

You might be able to get away with doing this with vermiculite though, because it actually absorbs water and would provide a conduit for the Myc to then wick up that water.  But even then, I still don't suggest this.  Myc uses active transport to move water to fruits, so it can only use the water in the subtrate it's colonized at any given time.  Meaning if you only use grain as a substrate, there is not a lot of water to transport. 

Make sense?


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: Mushierage]
    #23632162 - 09/10/16 12:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If you are dead set on doing this, then by all means do it.  But at least follow a tek to hydrate your grain before colonization.  Even if it's just putting water in the jars you're colonizing in, waiting an hour or so, and then dumping it out and casing the jars themselves, or putting into a tray and casing.

Up to you dude.


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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Offlineshrumzen
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: Mushierage]
    #23632186 - 09/10/16 12:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks man,

this was really helpful, clear and understandable! You suggested soaking rye grain directly in water but isn't it forcing contamination?

Do you know a tek where I can use my bought 150l peat and aluminium trays, which I can place in SGFC?

Thanks :smile:


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: shrumzen]
    #23632209 - 09/10/16 12:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

While you certainly can case grains which i have done before...
it IS NOT worth 'wasting' that spawn. take the extra time to
use those grains and put with coco coir.

in your OP you stated ...



Quote:

shrumzen said:

My Idea:

1. Layer = 1cm substrate
2. Layer = colonized rye
3. Layer = 2cm substrate





if you insist on going your way thats cool. but flip the ratio.
use a thinner casing layer than the bottom layer.
you COULD basicly do the same with coco coir/vermiculite and your grains..(gypsum too)

the main reasons why i would never case straight grains again are!!!
1. it will dry out too fast and limit growth
2. any exposed grain always got contam before the 2nd flush came in.

its just a bad idea to case straight grains when mixing with a basic
CVG(coco/verm/gyp) can give you a billion times the result with little
or no extra effort.. only a week or so.

do not let 'time' be the thing that fucks up a good grow..
ironic that trying to save time ruins weeks of hard work. plus the time alter effects
your fruits can bless you with.


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: mushboy]
    #23632225 - 09/10/16 12:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

:whathesaid:


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: Mushierage]
    #23632241 - 09/10/16 12:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

also if time is an issue.. as in you want to see some shrooms!?

do the more 'fancy' spawning methods we suggested and than
use your idea with 1 jar in a small little tub.. hell im about
to fruit 1 quart of bacterial spawn in a mini mono while my
agar plates grow cause i want some damn mushrooms after a decade of not growing.

I know my mini i made will be sub par and shitty but it will
satisfy that 'mush' craving we get after waiting and waiting
for jars/plates to colonize.


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InvisibleStipe-n CapMDiscord
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: shrumzen]
    #23632251 - 09/10/16 12:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)



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Offlineshrumzen
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: Stipe-n Cap]
    #23632724 - 09/10/16 03:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I think I got it now and it is not about time. I just want to do it right and secure (I am afraid of contam) and I thought monotub is very susceptible over contamination.

Even if I only have three 1pt jars I going to mini-tub (monotub). Is this the correct term for this method?

One last thing guys: Is it better to use coco peat instead of the peat I have bought already? Has coco any advantages over peat? Maybe it holds more moisture?

AND when I do monotub. Is it necessary to FAE and moisten all day like in SGFC?

Of course I will check the links you have provided as well.

Thanks for your friendly help guys, I really appreciate it!


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: shrumzen]
    #23632893 - 09/10/16 03:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Shrumzen, once your spawn is 100% colonized, your grow is very contaminant resistant.  It doesn't really matter what method you use to fruit after this point as long as it gives the mycelium everything it needs to thrive. 

Honestly, you could fucking sneeze in your subtrate and wipe a booger in it and it'll still colonize pretty well.  It isn't bulk substrate that you really need to worry about contaminating.  It's the spawn. 

Also, if you think your substrate will contaminate in open air, you really have got to do a LOT more reading about this hobby.  You don't know enough yet, so keep reading dude.


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Casing layering question [Re: Mushierage]
    #23632927 - 09/10/16 03:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

And I'm clearly joking here.  But not really.  Don't wipe boogers in your sub.  :super:


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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