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Invisiblemabus
anguish this!

Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 956
Re: A look at global warming. [Re: ]
    #2368693 - 02/22/04 06:47 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

everyone would get hit pretty hard if there was any significant effort to reduce energy usage.

They are gonna get hit hard for sure if they don't. Of course if you don't think that global warming has been accelerated by fossil fuel use, then disregard.


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http://www.sacredshrooms.org


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Registered: 10/10/02
Posts: 27,301
Loc: mndfreeze's puppet army
Re: A look at global warming. [Re: ]
    #2368708 - 02/22/04 06:56 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

But if we pursued alternative energy sources, couldn't we create jobs as well?


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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InvisibleEdame
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Registered: 01/14/03
Posts: 1,270
Loc: outta here
Re: A look at global warming. [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2368721 - 02/22/04 06:59 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

blacksabbathrulz said:
Just because other countries are signing doesnt mean its a problem, I believe they are buying into the irrational fears of certain scientists. The average temperature of the world has not increased in the past 20 years of so at all.




Right, I guess the rest of the world has been hoodwinked, and the government that's being accused of manipulation and deception in scientific policy (among other things) is one of the few who can see the real truth (just like those WMDs). I bet the UN and EU are going to be so pissed when they find they wasted all that time and money making their air cleaner for nothing, what a bunch of suckers!


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The above is an extract from my fictional novel, "The random postings of Edame".
:tongue:

In the beginning was the word. And man could not handle the word, and the hearing of the word, and he asked God to take away his ears so that he might live in peace without having to hear words which might upset his equinamity or corrupt the unblemished purity of his conscience.

And God, hearing this desperate plea from His creation, wrinkled His mighty brow for a moment and then leaned down toward man, beckoning that he should come close so as to hear all that was about to be revealed to him.

"Fuck you," He whispered, and frowned upon the pathetic supplicant before retreating to His heavens.


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Anonymous

Re: A look at global warming. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2368728 - 02/22/04 07:00 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

how would we persue them right now?


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Invisibleafoaf
CEO DBK?
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: A look at global warming. [Re: ]
    #2368746 - 02/22/04 07:06 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

you could sink a tenth of the money we have spent
on this war into research.

you could create mandates or incentives for the
automobile manufacturers to get off their asses.

like kennedy's march to the moon, the next great
american endeavor should be to get off the oil
IV.

OPEC would be back to wiping their asses with
their hands if we reduced demand and dependency
on oil.


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All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Posts: 27,301
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Re: A look at global warming. [Re: ]
    #2368756 - 02/22/04 07:10 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
how would we persue them right now?



Well, loosening the oil companies' stranglehold on American politics would be a start.


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"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: A look at global warming. [Re: afoaf]
    #2368767 - 02/22/04 07:14 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

you could sink a tenth of the money we have spent on this war into research.

unfortunately, we already spent it. if the government funds alternate energy research, it's gonna have to tax more. if it spends 10 billion on research, that's 10 billion that taxpayers now don't have to spend. that's gonna put people out of work.

you could create mandates or incentives for the automobile manufacturers to get off their asses.

that's gonna make cars more expensive, meaning that people have less to spend on other things. that's gonna put people out of work.

we're using oil right now because it's the most efficient means we have. any efforts to force people to use or develop different sources will hurt the market and people will suffer for it. there are serious costs involved in reducing our dependance on oil. cutting greenhouse emissions is not free.


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Anonymous

Re: A look at global warming. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2368771 - 02/22/04 07:14 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)


Well, loosening the oil companies' stranglehold on American politics would be a start.


what would that accomplish?


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A look at global warming. [Re: ]
    #2368822 - 02/22/04 07:30 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:

Well, loosening the oil companies' stranglehold on American politics would be a start.


what would that accomplish?



It would free the hands of politicians to pursue research into alternative energy sources.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A look at global warming. [Re: ]
    #2368828 - 02/22/04 07:31 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

if the government funds alternate energy research, it's gonna have to tax more.



Not if we stop spending tax dollars on wars for oil.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Registered: 05/22/02
Posts: 2,511
Re: A look at global warming. [Re: Edame]
    #2368829 - 02/22/04 07:31 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

If you look here, www.oism.org you can see that over 17,000 scientists have signed a petition saying that they dont feel global warming is a problem, Plus if you read into global warming you will see that only land based readings show a trend in global warming, plus projected figures show that complying with the stupid kyoto treaty will cost the US 300 billion dollars annually, plus even if global warming were a problem, it is projected that the change in temperature will only be about 0.14?C, not that significant, now lets look at why people support these lowering of emissions, liberals hate big business, you hurt big business by lowering emissions, what do these scientists have to gain that support it?? Guaranteed work from government grants, and money from writing books about how you should be scared shitless. Plus who in their right mind, thinks that the actions of the UN are in any way credible?? They have libya, who tortures people in charge of the the humanitarian section, plus many of the members of the UN are violent dictators, the UN is just a cold war relic that either shouldnt be around anymore, or needs to change its policies, and who it allows in before it is remotely credible


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Anonymous

Re: A look at global warming. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2368832 - 02/22/04 07:31 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

It would free the hands of politicians to pursue research into alternative energy sources.

by taxin' and spendin' i presume.


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Anonymous

Re: A look at global warming. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2368836 - 02/22/04 07:32 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Not if we stop spending tax dollars on wars for oil.

it would still have to be funded with tax dollars.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
Re: A look at global warming. [Re: ]
    #2368840 - 02/22/04 07:34 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

so, you're content then to keep things as they
are simply because of added costs and potential
employment shifts?

I'd pay 10% more for my next vehicle if it were
clearly going towards additional, progressive,
alternate fuel research.

And just like Greenspan's claim that job losses
while stressfull in the short term bring long
term benefits to the workforce, so does the
pursuit of something as revolutionary as new
fuel.

a pipe dream, maybe, but not worth nixing
based solely on market pessimism, don't you
think?


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A look at global warming. [Re: ]
    #2368847 - 02/22/04 07:36 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

mushmaster said:
Not if we stop spending tax dollars on wars for oil.

it would still have to be funded with tax dollars.



Yes, but we wouldn't necessarily have to raise taxes if we divert tax dollars from other areas of spending. I understand the whole "taxation=theft" thing, and I don't entirely disagree with it, but as long as we're spending tax dollars anyway, we might as well spend them on something useful.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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Anonymous

Re: A look at global warming. [Re: afoaf]
    #2368865 - 02/22/04 07:40 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

what i'm sayin' here is that there are serious costs to consider when we talk about reducing CO2 emmisions. it's not free. people are gonna suffer for it. silversoul7 said:

"Even if global warming isn't being caused by us, what harm would it do if we reduced emissions? Since we don't know for sure what's causing global warming, I think it's better to be safe than sorry."

i just wanted to point out that there are costs to reducing emissions, and it's not a great idea to go subjecting everyone to those costs when we don't even know how serious the problem is right now, if there's a problem at all.


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Invisibleblacksabbathrulz
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Registered: 05/22/02
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Re: A look at global warming. [Re: ]
    #2368872 - 02/22/04 07:42 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

There is heavy alternate fuel research being done, one that looks promising is hydrogen combustion, it produces a tremendous amount of energy, plus it produces water.


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Anonymous

Re: A look at global warming. [Re: silversoul7]
    #2368875 - 02/22/04 07:42 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, but we wouldn't necessarily have to raise taxes if we divert tax dollars from other areas of spending.

that would be more acceptable to me, but the fact remains that we would still be using tax dollars to fund the research, and that would still mean that people would still be hurting because of it. this idea still wouldn't make the whole thing free of costs.


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Anonymous

Re: A look at global warming. [Re: blacksabbathrulz]
    #2368889 - 02/22/04 07:45 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

currently the most economically viable means of obtaining hydrogen is to strip it from hydrocarbons, which still means we need fossil fuels, and it still creates pollution.

electrolysis would be another option. that requires a lot of electricity though. maybe nuclear power could provide the energy to produce hydrogen, which could then be used to drive fuel cells in cars.

there are many other sources of energy than oil out there. the thing is that switching to any of them is going to be costly.


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Invisiblesilversoul7
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Re: A look at global warming. [Re: ]
    #2368890 - 02/22/04 07:46 PM (17 years, 2 months ago)

See, here's the thing: When we identify an environmental problem, there are some initial costs to fix it, but not many people are willing to pay them. As the problem gets worse, the costs keep going up, but so does people's willingness to pay for fixing it. Eventually the problem gets so bad that people are willing to pay the astronomical cost of fixing it. Basically, we can pay a little bit now or a lot later.


--------------------


"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."--Voltaire


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