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Offlineragadinks
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Contam on WBS ( pics )
    #2349216 - 02/18/04 08:21 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

I have just soaked WBS in diluted coffee and PC'd for about an hour. Both of the jars got a contam that is a kind of yellow sludge around the seeds. Does anybody know what that could be ?

Here is the jar:



And here are two close ups of the contaminations:




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Anonymous

Re: Contam on WBS ( pics ) [Re: ragadinks]
    #2349232 - 02/18/04 08:25 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

that looks like bacteria to me

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Re: Contam on WBS ( pics ) [Re: ragadinks]
    #2349325 - 02/18/04 09:06 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

It is bacteria. You need a much better mix. You want something w/o sunflower seeds. Rye grain can also harbor high levels of endospores, which cannot be sterilized without first soaking for 12-24 hours.

Joshua


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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Contam on WBS ( pics ) [Re: Joshua]
    #2353662 - 02/19/04 04:39 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

I guess I did not PC them long enough, because other jars with the same mix of WBS were all right. How long do you PC in general ? Is there a recomondation for the different substrates like WBW, corn, rye, millet etc. ?

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OfflineMAIA
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Re: Contam on WBS ( pics ) [Re: ragadinks]
    #2355020 - 02/19/04 02:04 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Well, actually the substrate looks a bit dry and that's also a cause for contaminants to germinate.
I find it better if i precook the grain first, because it's easier to keep track of the water content. When you reach an optimal absorption (before the kernels start bursting), drain the water, fill the jars with the kernels and PC them. The timings can vary but it should be at least 45 min. IMHO. I normally do 60 min.

MAIA


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Re: Contam on WBS ( pics ) [Re: MAIA]
    #2356507 - 02/19/04 07:22 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

And I was afraid that they were too wet because you can see the water on the kernels where they touch the glass surface. I always soak for 12-20 hours and drain them overnight. Then I put them in the jars and PC them for about an hour. Usually it works, but this time it did not. Do you think the diluted coffee could have brought in an new vector of contamination ?

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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Contam on WBS ( pics ) [Re: ragadinks]
    #2356709 - 02/19/04 08:01 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Definitely Bacillus in those jars. You should have no problem catching the smell of it by now.
Personally, I've found that the proportion of sunflower seeds can make a difference. I like buying cheap-ass birdseed, and end up scooping many of the sunflower seeds out. If you completely submerge the grain-to-be-used, the sunflower seeds float.
I can't see how the coffee addition would have made the substrate more contam-prone, as Bacillus does fine on any grain. Perhaps the moisture content was compromised in the process? Maybe the pH, but again, the pH of straight grain is conducive to Bacillus. . .

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Re: Contam on WBS ( pics ) [Re: Suntzu]
    #2356889 - 02/19/04 08:44 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

I have found that a few sunflower seeds helps out a bit if the grain was too wet. It gives a little space.

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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Contam on WBS ( pics ) [Re: Suntzu]
    #2362592 - 02/21/04 02:22 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Quote:

I can't see how the coffee addition would have made the substrate more contam-prone, as Bacillus does fine on any grain. Perhaps the moisture content was compromised in the process? Maybe the pH, but again, the pH of straight grain is conducive to Bacillus. . .




In the advanced secion there is a thread "The coffee project". There RoggerRabbit says that he PC's WBS for about 2 hours because coffee has a lot of endospores. As you said: It could also be the PH because coffee has a low PH ( about 5 ).
How can you see from the pic that the moisture is too low ? I always thought too low is better than too high ?

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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: Contam on WBS ( pics ) [Re: ragadinks]
    #2362686 - 02/21/04 03:39 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

You should buy a different kind of birdseed....Ones for Finchs (Finken) or Parrots ( Papagei).
It should be mostly millet, like this:


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Post deleted by Administrator [Re: ragadinks]
    #2362756 - 02/21/04 05:29 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)



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Offlineragadinks
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Re: Contam on WBS ( pics ) [Re: OldSpice]
    #2362799 - 02/21/04 06:35 AM (20 years, 1 month ago)

Anno:
shit, this seeds were ass cheap. I hoped that it would be ok.

Alounacara:
are the sunflower seeds really that bad? I hoped that PC'ing them for some time would kill all contams.

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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Contam on WBS ( pics ) [Re: ragadinks]
    #2363905 - 02/21/04 01:15 PM (20 years, 1 month ago)

It's impossible to tell at this point whether the original moisture content was too high or too low, as Bacillus growth tends to make things look wetter regardless.  Having jars too wet is one *potential* factor that might favor Bacillus [coffee or no coffee].  When I said the moisture content was possibly 'compromised' I didn't mean 'not enough moisture'.  :smile:
My own 'pet' theory on sunflower seeds is that the texture of the seed coat makes it harder to sterilize;  It's a rough coat, with all sorts of little micro niches. . .millet, on the other hand, has a more smooth 'waxy' coat.  Theoretically, you should be able to get fine results with straight sunflower seeds, if the water content is adjusted accordingly.  Working from personal experience, though, the less the better :wink:
As far as the endospore load, I'd have a hard time believing that coffee beans have significantly/any higher amount than cereal grains. . .who knows, though.

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