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just_curious
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Crazy pinning! 1
#23622435 - 09/07/16 03:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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So, this is a 66 qt mono. Live tissue<Agar<WBS<CVG. I'm pretty sure that this tub is contam'd. It's got some yellow discoloration that I'm assuming is gonna turn to trich. But in the meantime, it looks like I will get a big first flush if all goes well and this doesn't jinx it. The picture is of an area that is smaller than the palm of my hand, and there rest of the sub is like it too. Hopefully it's healthy because it's a pin explosion. I can include more pics if you guys want to see the entire tub/possible contams. Let me know what you think.
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mushboy
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more pics. that looks decent to me!!
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Mushierage
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: mushboy]
#23622449 - 09/07/16 03:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Looks pretty good to me. Doesn't look contaminated in my opinion.
I'd even go as far to say you'll pull 2-3 flushes off that bin.
Nice porn.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Kenetic
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not too shabby baby
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just_curious
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: Kenetic]
#23622491 - 09/07/16 03:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm pretty sure it's the middle pics that have the possible contams in question. Sorry if the pics sucked, phone was about to die so I had to hurry.

I can take better pics I need be.
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mrmazdarx9
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: Kenetic]
#23622493 - 09/07/16 03:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Be better with a full tub short I get more than that on a half pint cake, not knocking you just show me more
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just_curious
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Quote:
mrmazdarx9 said: Be better with a full tub short I get more than that on a half pint cake, not knocking you just show me more
It's hard to get a full top shot with my phone. I mean I can, it just won't be very detailed.
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mrmazdarx9
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Ah right good growing anyway buddy
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just_curious
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Is it worth a shot to try to cut out that area. It keeps throwing me off because it's got a blue hue to it so with the combination of blue and yellow, could it be dry and need light misting, or is it for sure contam'd. I'm assumed the latter.
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Kenetic
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The only yellow I see is on the pins
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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just_curious
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: Kenetic]
#23622573 - 09/07/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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2nd and 3rd pic, bottom left hand corner. 4th pic, bottom right (around the poly and the corner) it looks like that section didn't colonize 100% either because I can see coir with no growth. It's that same area that I'm seeing everything.
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Kenetic
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Ok. Yellow right underneath the polyfil and the uncolonized portion, which I'd assume was from bacteria or something. I'd say just see what happens. I've never cut a contam out before and I'm not sure if that would help or not. At least you have a good flush so far.
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just_curious
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: Kenetic]
#23622622 - 09/07/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've cut out before when it actually turned green and it worked out pretty well. I was hoping if I got it early it would work out even better. What about combating it with H202, I heard that only works for cobweb, but figured it was worth a shot to ask.
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Kenetic
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From what I've heard on this forum about using h202, it's for cobweb only and doesn't help your myc much either. Never tried that either. Of course I've never had a contam in a tub other than bacteria anyway.
If fact the only time I got tric was on a recent agar plate and a jar that didn't do anything for 3 weeks that I open-air inoculated like half a spore print on afterwards. I know, stupid but I was in fuck it mode.
edit: grammar
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
Edited by Kenetic (09/07/16 05:44 PM)
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just_curious
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: Kenetic]
#23623042 - 09/07/16 06:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well the problem is, my agar looks fine, my jars look fine, so idk where at in the process it is happening at. I assumed maybe I had dirty agar plates and I have been transferring. I thought the same thing about my G2G. But when I G2G some of my jars, I had a little bit of grains left over in one of the colonized jars. I put the lid back on, and it's growing mad invitro with no signs of contamination...I'm seriously so confused. I'm almost to the point where I am going to scratch everything and start over from square 1...really don't want to do that, but I don't think I have an option.
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just_curious
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I seen a post by RR in another thread that stated that bleach doesn't hurt fungi. If I got a little dropper and dropped a bleach/water mixture on the infected area, could it potentially slow down it's rate of growth. I would take extra precaution as to not get in on the myc. and fruits except that of which is in the immediate area as the contam. Now, I know that there is nothing that you can do to battle trich, penicillin, etc. I'm not trying to beat it...just trying to contain it to the best of my abilities until flush 1 is complete. I have had some good tubs before, but no where near the pinning that is happening on this one. I really want to maximize the amount I get from this before I have to get rid of it. Thanks for any and all advice.
I have heard of people cutting out the area and filling the would with salt, but i feel that this would actually be more detrimental to the myc. and the fruits...and obviously the H2o2 won't work.
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Boogieman47
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Just cause you have bacteria doesn't mean you won't get your flush if you keep spraying it whatever it could very well damage the pins making them abort let them finish as long as that shit ain't green I'd let it be
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just_curious
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I haven't sprayed anything yet, but the green is coming and it's right next to a fat cluster of pins. I can see it manifesting lol
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Boogieman47
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Take it and isolate that tub so you don't infect your grow room as long as you don't have green on the shroomies they are still good ..
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just_curious
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UPDATE!!
So the pins continue to progress, but as you can see, the contams keeps progressing also. I guess it's going to come down to a race between the healthy fruits, or the shitty contam. There are now 2 spots where the green is making its presence known. Also, there are 2 larger pins next to the contam that are turning green. What are your thoughts? Bruising? Or started to be taken over by contams?
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Pastywhyte
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You should get that out of your grow space. I would put outside to minimize sporeload while still getting the rest of the flush in hand.
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Kenetic
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You're getting down with the trichness
sorry your grow got disturbed
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Terpfreak
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: Kenetic]
#23626015 - 09/08/16 02:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Can you get a better picture of the stems where it's discolored?
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just_curious
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Here is a close up of the fruits 
Also, the tub is outside.
I pulled everything out of that room, and am going to battle with it. I'm arming myself with 10 cans of oust, 10 cans of Lysol, a strong concentration of bleach water, bleach wipes, and Lysol wipes. I'm going to bomb the entire room.
I started my agar all over. And I'm going for a higher temp or longer duration during my CVG prep. I'm going to buy a new bag of verm also.
I honestly don't think it's my agar and don't think it's my grain, I think there's something in the room. But just to be on the safe side, I'm starting from square one. There will be a long, drawn out process of sterilizing my monotubs so I can continue to use them, same goes for my SAB, and same goes for my jars. Carpet is getting shampood in my entire house also. Might be overboard, but I didn't even have this problem as a brand brand new Noob. This is a recent, constant occurring event and I've had enough. Which sucks because this tub is pinning like crazy. Its official...
I'M AT WAR!!!
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Pastywhyte
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I would bet it's your spawn.
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Mushierage
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Keeping it inside is just a bad idea all around.
Keep that thing around and you'll be fucking around with trich for the next two months I'll bet.
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just_curious
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So with the spawn. I did a G2G, and after some jars, I still had some grain left in the donor jar. I put the lid back on it and let it be. I got good invitro pins and no sign of the green. On all my other jars, I inspected them and there are absolutely no metabolites, yellowing, discoloration, and smells great. So unless trich only appears in an open air setting with FAE, then idk how it's my spawn or how it hasn't revealed itself in my spawn. I'm not saying it isn't, I'm just saying I don't see any signs of it.
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just_curious
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what about those 2 shrooms? are they done for?
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Pastywhyte
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Spawn is tricky. There are people who do this for years that don't know how to spot bad spawn.
  
In the above 5 pics there is clean spawn and bacterial spawn. 3 of the pics are perfectly clean, 2 are lightly bacterial. 1 is very clean but the culture is weak. Can you tell the difference? Only one contamed before the first flush, all others put out at least 2.
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mushboy
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ooo a pasty quiz!!!
id say.... pic 2,4,5 are clean. pic 1 is lightly bacterial?? oh god im going to get flamed for being a nub, right?
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just_curious
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1: Bacterial 2: Clean 3: Bacterial 4: Clean (weak) 5:Clean
Probably way off. But I definitely like this. You should make a sticky'd post like this and update every month. Like a check on learning. Like you said, they are hard to I.D. Especially when they aren't putting out any metabolites and also through photos. Burst my bubble, how shitty did I do?
Also, do I need to pull those 2 mushrooms pictured above do to contamination? I really don't think it's bruising.
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Terpfreak
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Thats not bruising. Shut it down. Shut it all down.
No bit in all seriousness, there's a contam board and thread where you might be helped a little faster.
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Terpfreak
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If you're going to get rid of a contammed area , there are ways to do that- however you will still need to separate the box its in from your house/anywhere near anything you use to grow with.
Just be careful if you plan on separating the infected, a non cooled sterilized scapel could spread whatever that is in steam.
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just_curious
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Not when there is only 2 people viewing lol. That's the only 2 that it's happening to. RR made a post in another thread where he stated that green mold was 100% harmless to consume...as long as your not snorting the spores like lines of Coke lol.
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just_curious
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Quote:
Terpfreak said: If you're going to get rid of a contammed area , there are ways to do that- however you will still need to separate the box its in from your house/anywhere near anything you use to grow with.
Just be careful if you plan on separating the infected, a non cooled sterilized scapel could spread whatever that is in steam.
What would you suggest. Cut the trich out and patch with salt and hit up the area with a spray or 2 of bleach water since it doesn't harm the actual fruits, and then simply plucking the contamed shrooms? The tub is outside, so I'm not worried about it spreading in my grow area. I need this flush to happen. I'm 100 grams away from my quota, and don't have enough time to start again.
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Terpfreak
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I'd leave it all alone so you don't spread more of that shit. and collect the healthy ones.
, you might have hope but just stop it right now because theres no hope.
Seriously though, if its showing up on your mushies like that it's probably already in your sub in larger concentrations. The process of infection i guess you could say, has already ended.
Just hope your ass off that you get a few that haven't been interfered with.
I understand it sucks to lose something you put a lot of time into, but a lot of people would just set the tub on fire 100 miles from their place of grow.
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just_curious
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I found this comment from RR. What do you think.
RogerRabbit said: quote: "well, once your cake or casing has mold in it, so do the mushies, so yes, you are eating mold. The mushies are made up of and grow on the mycelium network. That network carries nutes to the mushies, it also carries the contam to the mushies. So if there is mold on your casing, it is also in the mushi."
My friend, that is totally false and goes against everything we've learned about how mycelium works. Mushrooms are not like plants where the mycelium is the root. It simply doesn't work that way. The mycelium metabolizes the food it 'eats'. When you go to paul stamets seminars he covers this myth in depth. He has used mycelium to clean up diesel oil spills and other toxic waste dumps and the mushrooms are completely edible and free of all toxins from the soil as established by rigorous testing with gas chromatography.
For those of you who are afraid of moldy cakes, be sure to never eat cheese, because cheese can not be made without mold. Very thick layers of mold are cut off the blocks of cheese to give them eye-appeal for the market. The cheese is safe, believe me. You've all eaten cheese all your lives.
Now, that being said, I immediately throw away any contaminated substrate as soon as I see it. The danger is in polluting my growing environment with the released spores that will contaminate future projects. However, any mushrooms on the substrate are 100% safe to eat. That is a fact. We seriously need less disinformation and fear mongering. If anyone can produce evidence from one of the established university mycological programs such as Penn State, or anything Stamets has written on the subject I will gladly eat my words. I have done serious research into this. Green molds are common in commercial mushroom operations, so if you eat store bought edible mushrooms, you are very often eating mushrooms from substrates with molds. There is not mold in the fruitbody. They are 100% safe.
RR
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Pastywhyte
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Answer is. . .
Clean Bacterial Clean Clean (weak) Bacterial
All went for at least 2 flushes except the last one which triched out before the first flush. It can be hard to see or smell. You need to look for many things.
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Terpfreak
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All I have to say is that I would personally pick the healthy ones and throw the thing away alomg with any of the shrooms that have the mystery mold ln it. (Mystery mold because idk what it is)
RR isnt saying it's okay to eat moldy shrooms. He's saying moldy substrate doesn't mean your shrooms are infected. However we can clearly see that's not the case here? Which means it's probably spored everywhere - and you will have a low rate of healthy shrooms.
I'm not sure what you want to know at this point.
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just_curious
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I don't need to know anything else lol. Maybe I could post a pic of my jars and you guys could let me know if thats the issue. Pasty, what are the things that you look at on these jars that let know they are ridden with bacteria. Did you know by looking at them, or did you know when you realized that your bulk was going to shit. Is there any key things that you are seeing in those jars?
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r.lutece
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Quote:
just_curious said: I don't need to know anything else lol. Maybe I could post a pic of my jars and you guys could let me know if thats the issue. Pasty, what are the things that you look at on these jars that let know they are ridden with bacteria. Did you know by looking at them, or did you know when you realized that your bulk was going to shit. Is there any key things that you are seeing in those jars?
-------------------- One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail. But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: r.lutece]
#23626908 - 09/08/16 07:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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There are a few things to look for. Most people can spot a really bacterial jar by the milky myc or metabolites. But there are some smaller telltale to look for too. Spots where the myc gets really rhizomorphic for no apparent reason, places where the myc appears to shrink onto the grain, slow recovery after a shake. Any of those things and I start to suspect things are not good.
I am really picky about my spawn. If it gives me enough reason to even suspect something then I already am tracing vectors and being paranoid. Some people are like just spawn it anyways. No thanks. I ain't gonna put effort and material into spawning something that's gonna be a mess to clean later. Start being super picky about spawn. Everyone wants to blame the bulk, blame the bucket, blame the grow room. Not me, first thing I suspect is the spawn. Its served me very well.
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just_curious
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Well, I'm definitely going to lose this ENTIRE tub. I'm not gonna get a damn thing out of it. Sucks because I needed 100 grams by the end of two weeks....for personal goal reasons of course.
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just_curious
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How does this jar look. Given my recent history, I'm assuming bacterial?
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Pastywhyte
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Quote:
just_curious said: How does this jar look. Given my recent history, I'm assuming bacterial?

It looks a bit weak but more concerning is the slimy grains pressed up against the glass. It's not horrible but if it was mine I would spawn at a higher ratio maybe 1:1.5.
How are you inoculating and expanding the spawn?
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just_curious
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I cloned to agar, and then take growth from that to agar one more time (unless bacteria is spotted that is) and then I let the plates grow out and inoculate via "tiger drop." All done within a SAB. I'll inoculate 9 jars, use 7-8 to spawn to CVG, and the other 1-2 to G2G. Never going past 3 transfers. I shower, I wear a face mask, I use alcohol (repeatedly during work to the point that it becomes annoying), I brush my teeth. For my SAB, I lay down paper towel, mix up a spray bottle of anti-bacterial dish soap and water, spray down the paper towels on the bottom, and then spray the shit out of the SAB.
I know that those procedures aren't listed in order...but those are the precautions I take. This is also in a room where there is no free-flowing air because I turn the ceiling fan off, and the air duct is closed up.
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just_curious
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I guess I'm confused about what you mean when you say spawn at a higher rate.
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Pastywhyte
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Quote:
just_curious said: I guess I'm confused about what you mean when you say spawn at a higher rate.
More spawn less bulk. Should colonize stronger and faster which opens your window a bit.
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just_curious
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ok, I thought you were talking about the jar. I do 6-7 quarts Spawn to my brick of CVG. But, I usually use so much spawn that i have left over CVG.
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liloldme
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I'm bad pasty I would have spawned all those jars for a first flush ahaha
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just_curious
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: liloldme]
#23628925 - 09/09/16 12:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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so, you say that it looks weak, but not too much cause for concern and that you would just use more grain for spawning. So, I have 9 of these jars ready to go and I've got 2 weeks to come up with 100-120 grams. Should I spawn them? Also, is there anything that you see that would be causing my trich problem? I could post more and better pics. I really dont want to just throw them out, but if its going to cause another huge mess, then I will chuck them or spawn them outside.
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liloldme
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I would take pasty's advice over mine and toss anything questionable.
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Pastywhyte
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: liloldme]
#23628951 - 09/09/16 12:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
liloldme said: I'm bad pasty I would have spawned all those jars for a first flush ahaha
Well you would have be right to. Only the last set didn't produce a first flush, the others all went for at least 2. But the yield was off. All I am trying to show is that bacteria is sneaky. It can be a mold vector. While many times you will see a few flushes, the yield will often be off.
So if you are seeing a fair amount of mold pre first flush, don't take the spawn for granted. Get picky and tighten up. Use only vigorous cultures, cycle the media, never cut corners on PC cycles. See the results get better.
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just_curious
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I just dont understand how the grain got a bacterial infection because my agar plates were clean...at least appeared to be. No discoloration, no slow growth, etc. Also, why do my jars recover so quickly after a shake given the fact that it is bacteria ridden?
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Pastywhyte
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The bacteria was in the grain. It's nearly impossible to kill all the bacteria in the grain, instead what we are actually doing when we sterilize grain is kill most of it. This lowers the population enough to gain a window to colonize and fruit in.
If the grain had an excessively large population to begin with, a standard 90 min cycle might not be sufficient.
If your grains are recovering fast then it might not be bacteria. Maybe it's just a shitty culture that is not able to withstand the damage done by spawning. Or maybe it's another vector that we are not able to diagnose at the moment.
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just_curious
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And you absolutely don't think it may be a contam in the room or during open air spawning? I've got a mushroom growing in a jar with left over grains and no signs of any molds in it. It is putting off good invitro pins with only the SFD lid on there. Would that be typical of a bacteria contaminated jar?
With the 9 jars that I have, all came from a G2G, is the 2nd transfer, and the master came from clone...what would you honestly do with them? Would you attempt to fruit it, or throw them out.
Also, I've been wondering. Probably a dumb idea, but could you do a soak in anti-bacterial soap-water for say, 5-10 minutes, followed by a nice rinse to get all the soap off. Ive wondered this for both the post-colonized soak, and the 24 hour pre-colonized soak. I'm sure that it's an absolute no-no idea, but I figured it would be worth a shot asking. I know that I soaked my straw with dish soap (pre-spawning) and that didn't seem to hurt the fungi and might've assisted with killing any bacteria. Is it so crazy to think that you couldnt do the same thing with grains.
Maybe I'm not using my PC right. I got one with the weight and have regreted that decision since I bought it.
Also, thanks for all your replies and advice Pasty. I really appreciate the input. I am going to start over, but like I said, I gotta get a little bit more.
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Kenetic
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: cycle the media
How often should I change up agar recipes? I didn't want to start a thread for a question like this.
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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just_curious
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: Kenetic]
#23629481 - 09/09/16 03:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I wonder if I should switch up my Agar recipe?
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liloldme
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it's recommended to swap every time you do a transfer at least that what I do. How horrible would it be to create some super isolate that NEEDS potato flakes or it hates life..
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Terpfreak
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: liloldme]
#23629792 - 09/09/16 05:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Haaaaahahaha . Dont mind me just enjoying the theories and some dabs.
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just_curious
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Quote:
Terpfreak said: Haaaaahahaha . Dont mind me just enjoying the theories and some dabs.
Do you have something you would like to contribute?
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r.lutece
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: liloldme]
#23630241 - 09/09/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
liloldme said: it's recommended to swap every time you do a transfer at least that what I do. How horrible would it be to create some super isolate that NEEDS potato flakes or it hates life..
Do a Guinness soak and you've got an Irish variety.
-------------------- One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail. But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
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7munkee
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: r.lutece]
#23631037 - 09/09/16 11:29 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I was right with pic 2, but for the second contam I guessed pic 4.
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just_curious
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: 7munkee]
#23631601 - 09/10/16 08:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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These poor fruits . Never stood a chance. I don't even think I trust picking them. It's a sad, sad day. "Queue the funeral music"
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liloldme
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just put it outside 
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just_curious
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Re: Crazy pinning! [Re: liloldme]
#23633695 - 09/10/16 08:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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That picture was taken outside. The pins are suckin! Some have mold, they pull off the sub so easily, all the caps are opening, it's just miserable. IDK if I trust picking even the "decent" looking ones.
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Terpfreak
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I already contributed half of this thread so no thanks.
I was simply adding a comment. Good luck
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just_curious
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Well, the tub did way better than I thought it would. I don't have the final weights yet, but I'm assuming it's roughly 1.5 to 2 ounces. I already picked some previous to this picture. Makes me wonder how well this tub would've been had there not been a contam. I bet it would've been my first 6oz or so tub on the first flush with the crazy Pinset that it had. Can't really tell though and ultimately it didn't matter. Please ignore the disgusting tub and just look at the fruits lol
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just_curious
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I know this post is getting old, but I am very impressed. My shrooms gave it all they had today while I was at work. I was going to pick them this morning because they weren't progressing between this last post and this morning, but I came home today and low and behold....

I REALLY wish this tub hadn't contamed. It would've done so good.
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