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wtfcrazymofo
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: tump]
#23634803 - 09/11/16 06:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nothing is fool proof even fools mess up brf cakes.
Agar takes longer, and requires more logical sterile skill that fools can take some time to learn.
I would like to give a shot out to agar!
Agar rules. All the contams reveal themselves, and all you got to do is transfer away from those nasteys, or just throw them in the compost.
Once you got a clean agar plate it is still not fool proof. If you made a clean agar plate you might not be a fool. but Shooting syringe juice may be fooley unless you got some clean spore juice.
If you got deliberate swift motions of the hands (not above the plate) and sterile skills agar is tits.
Did OP use agar? or was he fa-fa-fa foolen?
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
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cuber3
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: wtfcrazymofo]
#23636432 - 09/11/16 05:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
wtfcrazymofo said: Keep on practicing. You should use agar first before you go to grain.
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wtfcrazymofo said:Did OP use agar? or was he fa-fa-fa foolen?
I did not use agar for this grow, just a plain MS syringe to simplify things for my first real grow. I totally get where you're coming from though, isolating healthy myc and then also having it colonize the grains much quicker than with spores is obviously a superior way to go. I have read up on agar, and have all the necessary supplies so I will probably try my hand at it very soon. The problem is that I have had some contamination issues using my glovebox (granted, I didn't clean it out with bleach but rather with isopropyl alcohol, which I've read isn't enough. I did use a spray bottle to mist the air inside the glovebox with iso and wiped all the sides with it, wear alcohol sanitized gloves, flame sterilized needle etc). Still a few of my spawn jars ended up with trich (ocracking open a corner of the lids, not using injection ports which I will next time around). I'm a bit afraid that I won't be able to pull agar and/or g2g off without a proper flow hood this way, maybe switching from iso to bleach could solve my issues? Still, will give it a shot soon, if at least to get some practice and experience with it, regardless of the outcome. First time for everything right, all at its own pace :-)
This morning I was pleasantly surprised to see that the ice cream tub (the one on the right in the OP) is now showing several dozen pins, I had pretty much given up on it since they looked so bad and so much time had passed already. The tray on the left in the OP is also showing a couple pins, though much much less than the other one. The middle tray which looked the worst is still showing nothing at all. Maybe I'll still get a somewhat decent harvest off that one tray after all, I'll report back later hopefully with some pics of mature fruits..
Edited by cuber3 (09/11/16 05:27 PM)
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wtfcrazymofo
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: cuber3]
#23642396 - 09/13/16 05:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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You dont need a flowhood but they do rule for 100 jars a week or so. Dont forget to get the walls of your sab wet with soapy water after treatment with iso. Some say you can skip the iso and you only got to get the inside wet so nothing falls off of the inside of the box. and wait 10-15-20 minutes for the air to settle inside the box. and It can't be in a drafty area whatsoever.
Work in the back of the box with 2 holes. Don't go over the media with your hands.
It might of been your syringe or wet grain not your sab. You dont need ships. bleech isn't typically used for sab work.
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
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cuber3
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: wtfcrazymofo]
#23643832 - 09/14/16 05:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
wtfcrazymofo said: You dont need a flowhood but they do rule for 100 jars a week or so. Dont forget to get the walls of your sab wet with soapy water after treatment with iso. Some say you can skip the iso and you only got to get the inside wet so nothing falls off of the inside of the box. and wait 10-15-20 minutes for the air to settle inside the box. and It can't be in a drafty area whatsoever.
Work in the back of the box with 2 holes. Don't go over the media with your hands.
It might of been your syringe or wet grain not your sab. You dont need ships. bleech isn't typically used for sab work.
Alright, thanks for the info, I'll take all of that into account next time I knock up some jars. I think I might not have waited long enough for the air to settle inside the box and that could be my problem. Popping open the lids might have sucked in some contaminants that hadn't settled yet.
Some good news at least, today I harvested my first flush from the healthiest looking tub:




Haven't weighed them yet as I didn't want to handle 'em too much while still wet. Still, I'm pretty happy with the results. They're in my dehydrator at 105F right now, curious what the dry weight will be. The block of myc is rehydrating right now, hopefully I can get a few more flushes out of it. If only my other tubs didn't get contaminated along the way :-)
The first filter box on the left in my OP had developed pins a couple days ago, and they've grown somewhat in size, though today it isn't looking too good at all:


Not sure if there's anything I can do about it, it has been getting the same misting/fanning treatment as the other one. What does the premature opening/curling of the caps say? I read that premature openign of caps could be due to overwatering, though I've also seen pics of similar looking ones and it was said that it was likely just a mutation and that they could still grow to full size. I guess we'll have to wait and see.. They're growing much slower than the other tub in any case, which seems to not be a good sign..
The middle one in my OP I think is a lost cause. It's the worst looking of the three and though it has now also developed a couple pinheads, I don't think they have any chance of maturing.
Edited by cuber3 (09/14/16 05:20 AM)
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PortabellaFella 1
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: cuber3]
#23643915 - 09/14/16 06:31 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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The curled open ones are mutations.
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cuber3
Stranger



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Quote:
PortabellaFella 1 said: The curled open ones are mutations.
Okay, thanks! I'm hoping they'll put on some more size soon, we'll just have to wait and see.
I'm still confused by this post:
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Supalemonhaze said: You don't really have to close the lids to those containers by the way, you can just put them in fruiting conditions from day 1.
This seems to imply that I could throw a freshly spawned tray into my fruiting chamber without first letting it fully colonize with the lid closed and a few holes for gas exchange. I know that with a monotub you can colonize inside the tub by plugging up some of the holes to prevent air exchange, but I'm using non-cased coir/verm/gypsum in a SGFC. Also, he is saying "fruiting conditions", so air exchange + misting/fanning. Won't the sub then simply refuse to colonize, or will it still colonize and find its way to the surface to fruit as soon as possible? I always read you want 100% colonization before introducing to fruiting conditions, that once fruiting conditions are introduced the myc will focus on fruiting and stop colonizing, and any uncolonized sub at that point is just lost nutrients and a possible vector for contamination. Can anyone elaborate on this please?
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: cuber3]
#23644194 - 09/14/16 09:40 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
cuber3 said:
Quote:
PortabellaFella 1 said: The curled open ones are mutations.
Okay, thanks! I'm hoping they'll put on some more size soon, we'll just have to wait and see.
I'm still confused by this post:
Quote:
Supalemonhaze said: You don't really have to close the lids to those containers by the way, you can just put them in fruiting conditions from day 1.
This seems to imply that I could throw a freshly spawned tray into my fruiting chamber without first letting it fully colonize with the lid closed and a few holes for gas exchange. I know that with a monotub you can colonize inside the tub by plugging up some of the holes to prevent air exchange, but I'm using non-cased coir/verm/gypsum in a SGFC. Also, he is saying "fruiting conditions", so air exchange + misting/fanning. Won't the sub then simply refuse to colonize, or will it still colonize and find its way to the surface to fruit as soon as possible? I always read you want 100% colonization before introducing to fruiting conditions, that once fruiting conditions are introduced the myc will focus on fruiting and stop colonizing, and any uncolonized sub at that point is just lost nutrients and a possible vector for contamination. Can anyone elaborate on this please?
What I mean by fruiting at spawning is exactly how it reads. You take your trays, fill a monotub with them and stuff in your poly like you would do on any other grow.
When you really think about it, mycelium will fruit whenever it damn well pleases. Mycelium pins on agar with minimal GE (no FAE whatsoever), as well as in grain jars. However, FAE will not stop mycelium from colonizing. Actually, fruiting at spawning will shave off a few days from spawn to harvest. It's not that colonization is faster, it's that the mycelium senses that it's in a good enough enviroment to fruit in while it's still colonizing so as soon as it consolidates, it fruits.
Here's Eat's thread about casing and fruiting at spawning, he also shows a side by side experiment using both methods to show earlier pinning on the ones that were fruited and cased at spawning.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22315950/fpart/1/vc/1/nt/27
If I had to guess, I would say that colonizing with high CO2 was simply an effort to replicate nature originally. Mycology is still a rather new science and it was hard to pull off a grow inside in the past so replicating nature was an obvious way to start. Nowadays, we know that a substrate that was fruited right after it was spawned will pin faster than the regular method but it will lose more moisture due to the earlier exposure to FAE. I only mention this because you are using trays, if your trays are thin, you may notice that you need to mist before the 1st flush finishes vs not misting at all on 1st flush with thicker subs.
So yeah, definitely not something you need to worry about, the mycelium won't mind either way. It's just a matter of what you prefer to do.
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StickyIcky Fingers
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: cuber3]
#23644235 - 09/14/16 09:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
cuber3 said:
The problem is that I have had some contamination issues using my glovebox (granted, I didn't clean it out with bleach but rather with isopropyl alcohol, which I've read isn't enough.
It could be your syringe or your sterile technique sometimes I will leave an agar dish (that I'm not going to noc up) sitting with the lid off as I work in my SAB to see if it contams.... to check the SAB.
Also many posts ago you said you might make up an LC, I strongly suggest holding off on this until you can get/keep stuff clean an LC is only going to exacerbate your contam issues. If you later decide to do an LC noc it up with agar and check the LC on agar.
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Mad Season
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Registered: 09/16/12
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Loc: Canada
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Actually many years ago people skipped colonization and went straight to fruiting like azur has. They concluded tho that it was taking away needed energy for fruiting.
Quote:
cronicr said: i don't know what your train of thought is on taping holes and co2/fae during colonizing but here's my thought.. We only tape the holes to up the co2 levels, this does a couple things, it slows down how fast the substrate is consumed while colonizing and the reduction of co2 at fruiting is a pinning trigger.
We don't want the substrate to be devoured during colonizing we only want it colonized , we want it devoured once put in to fruiting conditons and this allows much fuller flushes, this is why you only see subs pull away from the edges of the tubs after fruiting because that is when it is really eating it. We keep a high CO2 level during colonization because the myceliums job in nature is to break down solid matter, releasing its carbon as CO2. in open air, most of the substrate will have been consumed by the time fruiting happens.
Also this means that while your giving your substrate fae you should also see the sub getting the fresh air exchange colonize faster then the one that doesn't and has a higher co2 level, but for the reasons i just stated this is not a good thing.
That being said, monos have such a huge substrate, it really doesn't matter if some of the potential gets used, because we generally only want a couple big flushes anyways before tossing.
If this was a more nutritious substrate with less water (pf cakes) colonizing in fruiting would be very detrimental. I actually don't even spawn at fruiting with small shoe box trays.
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wtfcrazymofo
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: cuber3]
#23645193 - 09/14/16 04:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nice shroomies eat fresheys.
Clone a good one to agar with just a tiny rice sized piece from the inside of the stem. If those were bacterial would it carry on the bacteria?
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
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Supalemonhaze
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Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: wtfcrazymofo]
#23646606 - 09/15/16 05:18 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes, it would you have to clean it up on your next transfer. Bacteria can be really sneaky too, sometimes it will be totally invisible. Do an agar sandwich to clean bacterial cultures.
I suggest taking multiple biopsies from the same mushroom, bacteria can completely halt growth when it's bad. I have had clone tissue that never recovered on agar, you can't clean up a culture that refuses to grow.
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twistedty
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
#23646611 - 09/15/16 05:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Sexy fruits man. Love it
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cuber3
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: twistedty]
#23661630 - 09/20/16 12:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Another quick update. In the end, all three trays fruited pretty well, though the most healthy one turned out the best. The other two trays grew a lot of mutants, where most of the caps curled upwards, not sure if it is just a coincidence or if the bacterial infection had anything to do with that.. Either way, all trays grew plenty of pins which quickly matured into short but meaty mushrooms.
First flushes of three trays combined yielded a good 24 grams cracker dry. Not sure how good of a yield that is for this size trays, but I'm pretty happy how it turned out considering the bacterial contamination, hopefully they will turn out some more shroomies on the next flush. In the meantime I'm already thinking about starting some new grain, and hopefully the next grow will turn out better with some healthier looking trays to start out with. Thanks again for the tips and suggestions everyone, I learned a lot from this and am sure this was a good step in improving my future technique
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Tira



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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: cuber3]
#23662465 - 09/20/16 05:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Those flushes look good man .) congratz
-------------------- Useful Links for Beginners The Basics AMU Teks Frank''s Teks Agar Noob Forum Reccomended Teks Agar for guaranteed spawn, Proper pasteurization for guaranteed substrate.
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