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Offlinecuber3
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First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time?
    #23620652 - 09/07/16 03:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hi all. I'm still a newbie at cultivation. After 3 attempts (first few times I messed up the grain prep) I finally managed to produce a few quarts of spawn, which I spawned around 1:1 to a pasteurized coir/verm/gypsum substrate following Frank's teks.

I used two filter boxes (the ones with the filter strip in the middle, which are also used in growkits), filled them up with the spawn thoroughly mixed in (I realize now it probably would have been better if I had layered it instead of mixing), closed the lid and let them colonize at room temp.
I filled a transparent ice cream tub with the rest of the spawn/sub and covered it with aluminum foil. I covered the entire surface of the foil in tiny pinprick holes, which I now realize was overkill and probably detrimental, will not do that again. You can see in the picture that one mangled pin grew prematurely in there, probably because it was getting too much oxygen during colonization..

I filled the filter boxes up too high and the mycelium grew up against the lid, while the bottom took a while longer to colonize.
When it was time to fruit, the mycelium had grown flat against the lid, and on one of the two boxes you can see the indentation the filter strip has left.

I placed all three of the trays into my sgfc (holes in all 6 sides, 10cm damp perlite, raised above the ground, humidity seems spot on).
I mist/fan 2-4 times a day, but so far about a week has gone by and nothing has happened at all so far. I searched around and see that people are getting hyphal knots and/or pins up to 3 days later, so I'm wondering if I messed things up? I know patience is key, but I just thought I'd post a picture of what I have so I can get some feedback from more experienced growers.

Things I've learned so far:
#1: Layer the spawn/substrate instead of trying to mix it up, should hopefully colonize more evenly
#2: Don't fill those filter boxes up to the brim anymore



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OfflineTira
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: cuber3]
    #23620672 - 09/07/16 03:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

How do your trays smell?  Do they have a sourish/sweetish smell?


--------------------
Useful Links for Beginners

The Basics              AMU Teks

Frank''s Teks          Agar

Noob Forum Reccomended Teks

Agar for guaranteed spawn,
Proper pasteurization for guaranteed substrate.


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Offlinewtfcrazymofo
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: cuber3]
    #23620679 - 09/07/16 03:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)



Looks like your gonna see some shroomies. please post future them.


--------------------
If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922




Edited by wtfcrazymofo (09/07/16 03:59 AM)


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OfflinecronicrFacebook
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: cuber3]
    #23620717 - 09/07/16 04:39 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cuber3 said:






:girlofdisapproval:


--------------------

It doesn't matter what i think of you...all that matters is clean spawn

I'm tired do me a favor


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: wtfcrazymofo]
    #23620724 - 09/07/16 04:46 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

wtfcrazymofo said:


Looks like your gonna see some shroomies. please post future them.




:thatsinteresting:

You do realise that those look absolutely horrible.... right?

And OP, don't layer your spawn if you are using coir. Mixing it is better, the only reason why you think that it isn't is because there is a shit-ton of bacteria hindering growth. The only time I would layer spawn and sub is when I'm using straight straw. With straw, the grains will just fall to the bottom when you attempt to mix it, especially if the straw isn't very finely chopped.


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Offlinecuber3
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: Tira]
    #23620769 - 09/07/16 05:23 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tira said:
How do your trays smell?  Do they have a sourish/sweetish smell?




They smell decidedly mushroomy, similar to how my grain jars smelled when I opened them.

Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:

:thatsinteresting:

You do realise that those look absolutely horrible.... right?

And OP, don't layer your spawn if you are using coir. Mixing it is better, the only reason why you think that it isn't is because there is a shit-ton of bacteria hindering growth. The only time I would layer spawn and sub is when I'm using straight straw. With straw, the grains will just fall to the bottom when you attempt to mix it, especially if the straw isn't very finely chopped.




Well, I'm not sure where I went wrong then.
My jars were fully colonized and smelled good, I prepped the coir/verm/gypsum substrate according to Frank's tek, checked for proper field capacity and even properly pasteurized it instead of going the bucket way.

I don't know about the ice cream tub, but I think the two filter boxes look so bad because I overfilled them and the myc grew flat against the lid. Could definitely be bacterial though, like you said.
Ah well, I'll just keep up the misting/fanning and hopefully I'll at least get something out of it..


Edited by cuber3 (09/07/16 05:43 AM)


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OfflineTira
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: cuber3]
    #23620780 - 09/07/16 05:30 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cuber3 said:
They smell decidedly mushroomy, similar to how my grain jars smelled when I opened them.




I asked because they look like they have bacteria or something, that yellowish discoloration is not a sign of healtthy mycelium.

All you can do is to wait and see.


--------------------
Useful Links for Beginners

The Basics              AMU Teks

Frank''s Teks          Agar

Noob Forum Reccomended Teks

Agar for guaranteed spawn,
Proper pasteurization for guaranteed substrate.


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Offlinecuber3
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: Tira]
    #23620786 - 09/07/16 05:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Tira said:
Quote:

cuber3 said:
They smell decidedly mushroomy, similar to how my grain jars smelled when I opened them.




I asked because they look like they have bacteria or something, that yellowish discoloration is not a sign of healtthy mycelium.

All you can do is to wait and see.




Alright, thanks. That sucks to hear :frown:
I'll keep up the regular schedule and hope for the best..


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Offlinetump
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: cuber3]
    #23620790 - 09/07/16 05:37 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I hope him well. Mixing the sub randomly with grains works not a whole lot better then layering. Besides one on the right might turn out a few.


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OfflineTira
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: cuber3]
    #23620793 - 09/07/16 05:38 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

cuber3 said:
Quote:

Tira said:
Quote:

cuber3 said:
They smell decidedly mushroomy, similar to how my grain jars smelled when I opened them.




I asked because they look like they have bacteria or something, that yellowish discoloration is not a sign of healtthy mycelium.

All you can do is to wait and see.




Alright, thanks. That sucks to hear :frown:
I'll keep up the regular schedule and hope for the best..




Don't give up hope! I had flushes from worse looking substrates than those.


--------------------
Useful Links for Beginners

The Basics              AMU Teks

Frank''s Teks          Agar

Noob Forum Reccomended Teks

Agar for guaranteed spawn,
Proper pasteurization for guaranteed substrate.


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: Tira]
    #23621336 - 09/07/16 09:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Whenever you get that mycelium mat on the surface of your sub, it's bacteria. Filling your trays to the brim had nothing to do with it. You don't really have to close the lids to those containers by the way, you can just put them in fruiting conditions from day 1.

I'm sure that your grains had signs of bacteria while in the jars. Do you have any pics of them? IME, I was never able to sniff out a contam in a jar. I'm better off relying on my eyes. Besides, there are countless of bacteria species that don't smell at all and the mycelium can easily overpower any other smells in the jar. Generally, when the mycelium in grain jars grows very thick, it's bacterial. By very thick I mean that the grains are not visible through the mycelium and you are not able to break the colonized grains by hand. Whenever you shake a grain jar and are unable to break all the clumps of mycelium, it's bacterial. There are other signs, I suggest that you post pics of your jars before you spawn them, that way you can learn for yourself what you need to look for.


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23621360 - 09/07/16 10:00 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Pretty bacterial.  But as long as you get those into fruiting conditions, you still might be able to pull off a couple of decent flushes from them.

Good luck on fruiting, and in the meantime try to work out why your spawn is getting dirty.


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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OfflineNwMycoHead
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: Mushierage]
    #23621486 - 09/07/16 10:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Love reading through these feeds, you learn so much everyday. I've also heard myc will have a slight yellow tint if it's not hydrated properly could this be the case here or no definitely bacterial? And what's a good way to tell the difference to an untrained eye?


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: NwMycoHead]
    #23621493 - 09/07/16 10:39 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Myc that isn't properly hydrated will look dry.  If it's really dry, it might start bruising too. 


Mycelial metabolites (the yellowing) is generally a reaction to a foreign substance the Myc comes up against, or a result of the Myc being stressed.  Also, you can tell its bacterial, because it looks puffy, matted, and like melting ice cream.


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: NwMycoHead]
    #23621512 - 09/07/16 10:44 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Nope, definitely metabolites. That mycelial mat is the all telling sign. What you are talking about is still normally caused by bacteria but aggravated by lack of misting. It will look more like scorched skin than anything else.


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Offlinecuber3
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23621703 - 09/07/16 11:37 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Alright, thanks for the replies and explanations everyone, definitely helps to know the telltale signs of bacteria. I've only dealt with trich and/or penicillin before afaik.
I will definitely try to up my sterile technique in the future. I'm a bit confused since the spawn looked pure white and smelled good, and I always heard coir was very contam-resistant and practically foolproof for a beginner. I spawned in the open and didn't bleach the area (did thoroughly clean beforehand though), maybe that's where things went wrong. Next time I'll be doing this in a well-bleached SAB.
I'm starting a fresh round of grains soon, this time using proper self healing injection port lids and some LC (which will also be a first for me). Hopefully I can report back with some healthier looking mycelium then, and not make the same mistakes again :thumbup:

Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:
You don't really have to close the lids to those containers by the way, you can just put them in fruiting conditions from day 1.




Sorry, I don't fully understand what you mean by this. I need to fully colonize the trays first (with the lid on for high co2) before moving them into the fruiting chamber, right?

Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:
I'm sure that your grains had signs of bacteria while in the jars. Do you have any pics of them? IME, I was never able to sniff out a contam in a jar. I'm better off relying on my eyes. Besides, there are countless of bacteria species that don't smell at all and the mycelium can easily overpower any other smells in the jar. Generally, when the mycelium in grain jars grows very thick, it's bacterial. By very thick I mean that the grains are not visible through the mycelium and you are not able to break the colonized grains by hand. Whenever you shake a grain jar and are unable to break all the clumps of mycelium, it's bacterial. There are other signs, I suggest that you post pics of your jars before you spawn them, that way you can learn for yourself what you need to look for.




Thanks for the info, I didn't know about any of this.
I guess this might have been the case then, I'm not sure. I definitely couldn't see the majority of the grains anymore, and I had to bang it quite hard to shake the grains up. The grains separated quite well, but there were still some clumps left that I couldn't bang loose and had to break up with my hands.
Here are a few pics of the jars that I took a while ago, shortly before I spawned them, one is WBS, the other rye:







The rye one had some thick cottony growth at the top:


I do have to add that my inoculation procedure wasn't entirely up to snuff. I used synthetic filter discs on my jars, with the metal lid underneath with 4 small holes punched in them for GE. I realized I couldn't inoculate through the filter disc, so I ended up quickly opening/closing the lids in my SAB to inoculate them (MS syringe), which could surely have invited some contams. Two of my jars didn't make it because of trich. I recently built proper self healing injection port lids so I don't have to do that anymore next time around..


Edited by cuber3 (09/07/16 02:51 PM)


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OfflineNwMycoHead
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: Supalemonhaze]
    #23621994 - 09/07/16 01:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mushierage said:
Myc that isn't properly hydrated will look dry.  If it's really dry, it might start bruising too. 


Mycelial metabolites (the yellowing) is generally a reaction to a foreign substance the Myc comes up against, or a result of the Myc being stressed.  Also, you can tell its bacterial, because it looks puffy, matted, and like melting ice cream.




Quote:

Supalemonhaze said:
Nope, definitely metabolites. That mycelial mat is the all telling sign. What you are talking about is still normally caused by bacteria but aggravated by lack of misting. It will look more like scorched skin than anything else.




Thanks, very good to know.


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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: NwMycoHead]
    #23628112 - 09/09/16 05:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ok, so I had 4 more trays colonizing prepped in the same way, and every single one ended up contaminated.
3 out of 4 got trich and the fourth which seemed to have some nice rhizo growth and was looking healthy from the outside had its surface covered in bright orange and webby mold.

None of the three trays have shown any growth for the 2 weeks they have been in my fruiting chamber so far, so I'm starting to think this is a lost cause.
Can anyone see anything wrong with the pics of the colonized grains I posted above?

I'm going to start a bunch of PF jars soon to tide me over in the meantime, and then I'd like to try another round of grains, hopefully with better luck.
I'm actually hoping that the problem lies with my inoculation technique, and that my new self healing injection port lids might resolve the issue..
I still think it's weird that I ended up with so much trich in the coir trays, while the spawn looked clean and coir is supposedly so contam-resistant.


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Offlinewtfcrazymofo
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: cuber3]
    #23631373 - 09/10/16 04:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Keep on practicing.  You should use agar first before you go to grain.


--------------------
If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541

Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big)
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922




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Offlinetump
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Re: First time trays in SGFC, taking a long time? [Re: wtfcrazymofo]
    #23631446 - 09/10/16 06:40 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

No offence to everyone who uses agar. But agar isn't fool poof. Sometimes you get unlucky with trich. But many noobs have some luck on grains with spores to grains With out as agar work. True that nothing beats speed as a blended li. But nothing is easier to mess up too. You leave the lid off a jar to long. Its contams. You leave the lid off the li to long it all contaminate to hell. With agar work you need good handy skills. Same with agar to grain then grain to grain. Every contact if a bleed for more contams. Long long time ago when i started with bird seed and spores syringes i had 95% succes rate. With agar its like 70% succes rate.


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