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InvisibleZombi3
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Seriously questioning my religious views * 1
    #23620280 - 09/06/16 11:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I've been Christian my whole life and was always pretty happy about it.
Lately though I've been really thinking about it and after a few deep psilocybin trips and a crazy LSD trip recently I've really started to question myself...
I'm definitely still deeply spiritual and always will be, but yea I don't really think I would label myself a Christian anymore. Anybody in the same boat?


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Invisiblepineninja
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23620298 - 09/06/16 11:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I've often wondered how someone who has been deep can reconcile their structured religious views.
I was a devout atheist before...now :shrug:


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23620325 - 09/06/16 11:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zombi3 said:

I'm definitely still deeply spiritual and always will be





Just because you think you might not be OK with everything Christianity is about, does not mean you're not spiritual.

I hit that point years ago, I wasn't a hardcore Christian or anything, but I went through a period of my life where I felt like being involved in a spiritual practice would be good for me.


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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Lucis]
    #23620339 - 09/06/16 11:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Christoanity was such a big part of my life, or at least it was always there and familiar. It feels weird not calling myself Christian. Like it feels like something huge has changed in my life when really not much has.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: pineninja]
    #23620364 - 09/06/16 11:32 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
I was a devout atheist before...now :shrug:



Likewise. I was brought up in an atheist household. For as long as I can remember I have bitterly hated the word 'god' because of its association with organised religion.

However having now found, and come into contact with, what I believe is god/the source/etc, and feeling that whilst it is undoubtedly there, although inherently not understandable to us in our present form, I realise that it is actually organised religion that I hate.

I love 'god', more than anything I have ever known.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
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Offlinesprinkles
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23620401 - 09/06/16 11:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

dont second guess yourself.  your first instinct is right. 


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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles] * 1
    #23620407 - 09/06/16 11:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You gotta question everything in your life at some point


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles] * 1
    #23620408 - 09/06/16 11:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
dont second guess yourself.




Don't just teach your children to read... Teach them to question what they read. Teach them to question everything.

--George Carlin

If your belief system has a name, you're in trouble.
--George Carlin


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 2
    #23620410 - 09/06/16 11:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Synchronistically timed post there Zombi!


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 2
    #23620411 - 09/06/16 11:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yea man I saw that too bro!!! The universe lol


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23620425 - 09/06/16 11:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Fuckin Amen to that. She moves in mysterious ways, but sometimes, it feels like you can get a glimpse of them.


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Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinesprinkles
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23620429 - 09/06/16 11:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

drugs seperate your connection to the divine.  that is why muslims and other religions do not drink.  Or use.


Anyway I think that once you've accepted Jesus as Gods gift and payment for your sin debt you're gonna be alright.  Everyone questions things, it's human.  Just like every human being has thought about suicide at some point, it's normal.  If you were to stop using drugs I know you would re-establish your eternal connection with God and Christ.  It is the correct way, and there is nothing that is more important in this life.


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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles] * 3
    #23620437 - 09/07/16 12:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

i Always felt closer to The Devine when I was frying on shrooms n shit


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23620472 - 09/07/16 12:18 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zombi3 said:
i Always felt closer to The Devine when I was frying on shrooms n shit



Me too. Meditation gets me just as close at times though, as well as certain random life events when sober.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlinesprinkles
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23620475 - 09/07/16 12:20 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zombi3 said:
i Always felt closer to The Devine when I was frying on shrooms n shit






it feels like it connects you with the cosmos and the universe for sure.  I liked watching sunsets, the colors would be so bright and beautiful.  And looking at the stars Id think about light VS darkness.  so cool.  I dont do that stuff anymore tho.  as you get older and have more negative experiences happen in life it taints your overall view of things I think.  shit isnt rainbows and cheese no more.


@jokeshop.  my favorite times in life have been in meditation and having conversations with God.  :smile:


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles] * 1
    #23620482 - 09/07/16 12:24 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
as you get older and have more negative experiences happen in life it taints your overall view of things I think.



It doesn't have to be this way. It just takes putting in some serious effort struggling against the current that drags us to this perspective at times.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3] * 3
    #23621281 - 09/07/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zombi3 said:
I've been Christian my whole life and was always pretty happy about it.
Lately though I've been really thinking about it and after a few deep psilocybin trips and a crazy LSD trip recently I've really started to question myself...
I'm definitely still deeply spiritual and always will be, but yea I don't really think I would label myself a Christian anymore. Anybody in the same boat?




No, I'm in a different boat. I struggled to become a Christian from a secular-reformed Jewish upbringing. I learned biblical myths from Jewish Sunday school and New Testament myths from my Catholic BFF at age 6. I began to doodle crucifixes in the 12th grade and had a dream of offering Jesus some morphine while he was crucified in my freshman dorm's stairwell. :lol:  An unconscious archetype, the central archetype of the Western psyche was  emerging. I took lots of acid during 3 of my 4 years of college, changed my major from pre-med to philosophy (you can imagine how distraught my parents must have been). After college I got baptized in my BFF's Roman Catholic church, seriously considered becoming a monk (I met with a Franciscan, Benedictine and Cistercian [Trappist] monks), until one day I woke up and realized that all the monks I had met were gay and I wasn't! They had no problem living w/o women). Instead, I completed a Masters degree in theological studies at a reputable United Methodist seminary before going off to grad school for a Ph.D. in Human Development & Clinical psych. I learned a great deal then and I have resumed my studies in theology. I had a terrific tutorial on Plotinus and Pseudo-Dionysus in college with a noted theologian, I learned Yoga, but also the Hesychastic techniques of Prayer of the Heart which served as a cultural-spiritual bridge from India to Greece, East to West.

I went through many phases of Christian, even burning my occult library (regrettably :frown: but I replaced much more eventually) with Wizard® Barbecue Fluid. I was never a complete literalist. One of my professors even suggested that as a Jew, I could think of myself as an ancient Ebionite, which was a sect of Jewish Christians who held non-orthodox beliefs about the nature of Jesus (i.e., that his nature was not "fully man, fully God." I deferred to the mainstream 'belief' at the time. I struggled with celibacy since my philosophy studies, beat myself up emotionally when I gave in to temptations, and tried to live like a monk in my parents' house after college and during seminary. At grad school I was just plain poor so living like a monk was necessary, although I did have sex and felt that God had punished me when I caught Herpes II (it was really my own damn fault not using a condom. The girl knew she had Herpes and didn't tell me).

Jump 38 years to the present. I've read and recommend one of more than a dozen books by Rev. John Shelby Spong (whom I've met thrice): Liberating the Gospels will demythologize the Bible. It allowed me to reconcile faith as a mode of knowing with reason. I also recommend after that deconstruction, Christ in Egypt by D.M. Murdock, who extensively documents many of the New Testament stories as being directly appropriated from the ancient Egyptian Coffin and Pyramid texts. These two books served as a double punch to my faith which was in suspension as it were. There are forms of Christianity which are Panentheistic rather than strictly theistic. Theism often reeks of pure mythology, but in any event, your major concern IMHO is to reframe your understanding of Christian scriptures in a mythicist and even an astrotheological context (Murdock explains this shift in interpretation), and leave any literal, fundamentalist notions far behind. Supplement with Christian Apocrypha and the Nag Hammadi (Gnostic) scriptures. Bottom line: Don't throw baby Jesus out with the bathwater. :nono: :wink:


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OfflineGrandPoobah
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 2
    #23621424 - 09/07/16 10:19 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I was in the same boat as you OP, not too long ago. I grew up a devout christian, but it didn't really hold up once I started taking psychedelics. I quickly learned that I did not agree with most of the judeo-Christian ideals.
I felt a little strange about this transition, because I knew I was a very spiritual person, I think all humans are actually. However, in the end, Christianity was the round hole to the square peg of psychedelics for me.
Just don't let anyone use scare tactics to steer your beliefs-this is guaranteed bullshit and many religions thrive off of it.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3] * 1
    #23622693 - 09/07/16 04:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zombi3 said:
You gotta question everything in your life at some point




WO you are now a heretic! Christians and other rigid hierarchical authoritarian cults do not like any questioning, and I include our secular culture based in scientism also. IF you 'question' here you can get yourself labeled 'mentally ill'. IE questioning does not have to be verbal form of question, but may manifest in a whole manner of ways. But if these questions disturb the prevailing author-ity then this can cause you trouble

I saw this very eye-opening video few days ago. A psychological experiment where a waiting room was set up with actors, and an unsuspecting person, a young woman. Every time this bell went off the other stood up, and eventually the one who didn't know what was going on did too. When they all one by one went except for the young woman even on her own she began standing every time the bell sounded. And then real people came in and they did too! it was hillarious and deeply sad at the same time

This is how the Christian myth works. It uses the old ploy of divide and control in a very deep way, making you fear nature, and your own body and nature, and others. THEN it has you unstable and can promise you a reward/solution IF you cling to their author-ity, 'heaven', and if you don't?----'hell',:firecum: everlastingly. So all the fear is designed to have you stuck in it, not questioning (in the past the burnt people alive who questioned the 'faith'), but sacrificing your life--and your kids if you have them--to that absurd belief system.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #23622735 - 09/07/16 05:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

fundamentalist notions?  oh really?   


Well if you dont believe in 5 things then you are not a Christian...


-virgin birth
-the diety of Christ (Jesus being he is who he says he is.... God in living flesh).
-the trinity (father, son, holy spirit)
-resurected from death
-his coming again

if you dont believe those 5 things. you're not a Christian.  You're something else.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: GrandPoobah]
    #23623459 - 09/07/16 07:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Please select the correct person to respond to. This was clearly not directed towards my response.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles] * 4
    #23623616 - 09/07/16 08:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
fundamentalist notions?  oh really?   


Well if you dont believe in 5 things then you are not a Christian...


-virgin birth
-the diety of Christ (Jesus being he is who he says he is.... God in living flesh).
-the trinity (father, son, holy spirit)
-resurected from death
-his coming again

if you dont believe those 5 things. you're not a Christian.  You're something else.




That is your mainstream, propagandist, fundamentalist contention. I subscribe to an 'exploratory' Christianity prior to carved-in-stone doctrine at the Council of Nicaea. I won't even identify myself as Christian to shallow individuals lest they think that I am a judgmental, concrete-minded individual stuck in immature Piagetian Concrete Operational Thinking. You must have no idea about how, why, and for whom the writings of the canonical Bible were written. In effect, the New Testament was written to create a singular messianic personality, an after-the-fact composite of every messianic prophesy in the Tenach, the suffering servant of Isaiah 53. This material is not journalistic. There was no reporter for the Bethlehem Gazette taking notes on some astronomical anomaly and a glow-in-the-dark babe in a manger. Those old men who selected the books for the canon, and destroyed every other manuscript they could that contradicted their essentially political power agenda. Thank God for the Nag Hammadi discovery which for me relativizes the vicarious sacrifice theology that has dominated Christianity for too long. As Reverend Spong has written (as a book title), Christianity Must Change or Die. +++Amen+++

The doctrine of the Holy Trinity is completely derivative of Plotinus' Neoplatonic categories renamed, but you would have to be just basically aware of this to see that the early Christians had a Duality in the 2nd century and not until after Tertullian used the term and Augustine developed it in the West did the 3rd century see trinitarian doctrine. It took a different form in Eastern Orthodox Christianity that resembles better its Pagan roots in Plotinus. Jesus himself never would have bought any doctrine that compromised the absolute monotheism of YHWH. Kabbalism did exist yet to suggest a Jewish 'Supernal Triangle.'

The virgin birth is based on an error that the author later designated as Matthew made because he was using the Septuigint Tenach written in Greek where there was only one word for young maiden and virgin - parthenos. If Matthew had used the Hebrew original he would've used the actual Hebrew prophesy in Isaiah 7:14 which reads almah (young woman), NOT betulah (virgin). Hebrews never subscribed to a vigin birth, that was pure Hellenistic mythology wherein demigods like Heracles (Hercules in the Roman) were born of God (Zeus: Greek, Deus: Latin) and a mortal woman, sometimes virginal. But of course God in Greek myth raped a lot of mortal women, sometimes in the form of an animal as in the rape of Leda in the form of a swan. A dove was the bird sacred to The Great Mother, often Aphrodite but also Diana as in Diana of Ephesus, whose worshippers Paul addressed in Ephesus. The virgin Miriam (Mary) is depicted as having a dove convey 'the word' through her ear, and thence conceiving. This is Greek myth overlaid on Hebrew midrash.

In the Johannine material, Jesus is completely different from the Synoptic (one-view) gospels of Mark, Matthew and Luke. For John the Greek (or Hellenized Jew), Jesus was an incarnation (in-fleshed), 'God clothed in flesh,' whereas for the Synoptic authors, Jesus was 'a man anointed by God.' VERY DIFFERENT and perhaps THE most Hellenistic mythic material about the New Testament.

Resurrection, as illustrated by Lazarus is actually about L'Azar - The Azar - Azar being the Egyptian name for Osiris (a Greek name). Lazarus appears wrapped in funeral cloth in John 11:43. Arms would've been folded across the chest under the wrappings, just as Osiris is usually depicted in Egyptian art. "Lazarus come forth!" commanded the biblical Jesus. Lazarus was resurrected from the dead - in the physical body. Midrash. Mythos. Metaphor. Osiris is the Egyptian deity of resurrection and the Egyptian Book of the Dead is properly entitled: The Book of Coming Forth by Day. "Lazarus, Come Forth!" I could go on, but I've been overly generous here I think.


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/07/16 09:57 PM)


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OfflineIrishseb
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles]
    #23623803 - 09/07/16 09:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Is that picture verses from the bible?


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23624324 - 09/07/16 11:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

interesting.  I go by what the bible says, since it is the word of God.  I'm not aware of anything else.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles] * 4
    #23625664 - 09/08/16 12:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
interesting.  I go by what the bible says, since it is the word of God.  I'm not aware of anything else.




"What the Bible says" needs to be interpreted by the human mind. Your mind desperately need reinterpretation. Being fearful of expanding your understanding is refusal to learn. One does not sacrifice one's intellect in order to have faith instead, that is abject ignorance, not faith. Any faith that cannot endure knowledge is not even faith, it is less than useful, it is harmful.

I'm not aware of anything else. <- This is not something to live by. :eek: It suggests that neither are you "in Christ" to use the biblical description. Being "in Christ" means being in the Logos of which the man Iesous is ostensibly the manifestation. Theologically, the Logos is the first manifestation of the Unmanifested Godhead which contains the Eternal Ideas, the Archetypes. "Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made" - John 1:3. This is what "only begotten son" means when the Logos is personified in the mythic language of a human relationship. Being in Christ means being aware of one's identity with the Logos, and hence being aware of Eternal Presence (or the Eternal Present, less personally expressed). Parroting of a book is just simple bibliolatry, not faith, not "being in Christ." But don't believe me, go learn for yourself. Time to dump your childhood level of understanding and be fed with spiritual meat instead of milk.


http://www.wakingtimes.com/2016/02/24/religious-children-have-trouble-distinguishing-reality-from-fiction/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=PostShare&utm_campaign=TMU


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/09/16 03:45 PM)


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Offlinebigdoodie
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3] * 1
    #23627014 - 09/08/16 07:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

There's no need to label ourselves. Our path is life or our path is death, it doesn't matter whether we find the path of life through religion or without, but it does matter whether or not we accept God. Christians are turning away and its creating changes in Christ consciousness. Our thoughts affect the electromagnetic field of earth which all consciousness is connected to, so we all can know each others thoughts no matter how far away we are and we feel the energy from it. If we're unfulfilled then we haven't seen God, and if we haven't seen God then we haven't feared god, and if we haven't feared god then we haven't left our sins, and or we haven't left our sins, then we stand in the territory of the devil.


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3] * 1
    #23628022 - 09/09/16 04:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You should congratulate yourself and feel happy. All Abrahamic beliefs are cancers; you are undergoing a process of psychological healing.

Know that you are envied by the weak.


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InvisibleZombi3
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: viktor]
    #23628035 - 09/09/16 05:02 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I find myself constantly feeling like I've lost something of great value but at the same time i can't bring myself to honestly and whole heartedly believe in the religion anymore

I honestly miss the solace it provided even if it was unfounded


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23628211 - 09/09/16 07:06 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Mushrooms definitely bring you closer to God. God is a frequency, a dimension, where all this is God playing a game within Itself.

Nature is divine. Pristine, infinitely complex, perfect, profound. If a mushroom takes you to God when you eat it, don't bag it man.

:laugh:


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23628937 - 09/09/16 12:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
fundamentalist notions?  oh really?   


Well if you dont believe in 5 things then you are not a Christian...


-virgin birth
-the diety of Christ (Jesus being he is who he says he is.... God in living flesh).
-the trinity (father, son, holy spirit)
-resurected from death
-his coming again

if you dont believe those 5 things. you're not a Christian.  You're something else.



that isn't what makes you a true christian. Christianity is a relationship between you and christ. the demons know of all the things and believe in all the things stated above. they will never find themselves in heaven.

As a Christian myself I was baptised as a Roman catholic. then baptised again once I accepted Jesus in my life in a Baptist church.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Exodus+20&version=KJV
he states to not have any other gods before him. not to don't learn of these other beings.

learning other religions has its benefits whether you are Jewish learning Christianity to Christianity learning wican.
The problem of most Christians is that they are RELIGIOUS. stating the fact that their religion is by all means the only right way so there is no point in studying others.
by doing this they become ignorant and just listen to main stream ideology derived from media, their church, whomever.
example all Muslims are terrorists...false... Christianity and Islam are polar opposite. false.... actually Judaism,Islam, and Christianity are the same with their own little twist. they all follow the same principle of the alpha and omega the Father God who brought us into existence but have differing messiah.
one of the bases of wican and satanism is to do good onto others. am I saying worship the devil. no.. if that's your thing do you.
by making claims as being a Christian you must learn to love others as they. I mean after all isn't christ who walked with the whores and eat with the thieves?


Quote:

Zombi3 said:
I find myself constantly feeling like I've lost something of great value but at the same time i can't bring myself to honestly and whole heartedly believe in the religion anymore

I honestly miss the solace it provided even if it was unfounded



don't be dishearted. learn from the journey. it's a spiritual walk with Christ for a reason. we all don't walk in a straight line for all of our lives... the good news is even if you stumble or veer off course christ will always be there even if you have doubted everything.
Good Vibes,
DS


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3] * 2
    #23629712 - 09/09/16 04:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

the time comes when its appropriate to shed specific mistruths and partial truths from one's being in order to more fully realize and radiate one's inner truth and being :smile: it can be distressing to the human self to lose long associated beliefs, but after they pass and new awareness emerges to take it's place, i think you will be much happier :smile: when one door closes, another opens... and doors keep getting better and more expansive as we unfold more :smile:

wishing you all the best zombi3 :smile: much love :heart:


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3] * 1
    #23630331 - 09/09/16 07:29 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zombi3 said:

i Always felt closer to The Devine when I was frying on shrooms n shit




We don't have to consider "The Divine" a deity or a type of spirit.

Psychedelics can catalyze a loss of sense of self. Death-of-self, just as Christ taught.

Death-of-self shatters the ego driven illusion we are all separate isolated creatures.

Not all drugs do that. For me, when I drink, get stoned, or do meth or coke, or opiates, I am the center of the universe.

Sitting tall on the Throne Of Me          < alone >


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23631193 - 09/10/16 12:51 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zombi3 said:
I find myself constantly feeling like I've lost something of great value but at the same time i can't bring myself to honestly and whole heartedly believe in the religion anymore





That empty feeling is normal, that's just your conditioned mind starting to let go.


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OfflineDuncan Rowhl
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23631228 - 09/10/16 01:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zombi3 said:
I find myself constantly feeling like I've lost something of great value but at the same time i can't bring myself to honestly and whole heartedly believe in the religion anymore

I honestly miss the solace it provided even if it was unfounded




What specifically, do you feel like you have lost?

Is t it possible to identify those things and cherry pick what you found of value, practice those principles, yet not be dedicated to any religion?

When people talk of Christ and atonement etc and hold them close to themselves, it doesn't necessarily mean that they are Christian or followers of any religion.

I can't follow Christianity fully and have no interest in perusing The Bible beyond the odd reference, for the fact they I know it's the works of man, who scribes the essence of God, but is vastly polluted with sin (wrong mindedness, not of God) at the same time.

On another note, a church is just a building which is the iconic, physical representation of the true, non-local 'church' which is the mind of man.  You need only visit yourself.

The truth, every peice of information and every skill is yours already when you repent (surrender ego) so you don't have to commit to any doctrines.


Edited by Duncan Rowhl (09/10/16 01:23 AM)


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23631351 - 09/10/16 04:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)



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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23631363 - 09/10/16 04:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Whatever I am when I die is exactly what I was before I was born. Nothin wrong with that.


--------------------

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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23631474 - 09/10/16 07:06 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Zombi3 - I enjoyed this article about how spiritual teachings can expire and thought it was quite good and fitting for this thread :smile: http://moonbirdblog.com/can-spiritual-teachings-expire/


--------------------



Edited by deff (09/10/16 07:24 AM)


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23632463 - 09/10/16 01:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

pineninja said:
I was a devout atheist before...now :shrug:



Likewise. I was brought up in an atheist household. For as long as I can remember I have bitterly hated the word 'god' because of its association with organised religion.

However having now found, and come into contact with, what I believe is god/the source/etc, and feeling that whilst it is undoubtedly there, although inherently not understandable to us in our present form, I realise that it is actually organised religion that I hate.

I love 'god', more than anything I have ever known.



this is exactly how I feel


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: topdog82]
    #23632970 - 09/10/16 04:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

pineninja said:
I was a devout atheist before...now :shrug:



Likewise. I was brought up in an atheist household. For as long as I can remember I have bitterly hated the word 'god' because of its association with organised religion.

However having now found, and come into contact with, what I believe is god/the source/etc, and feeling that whilst it is undoubtedly there, although inherently not understandable to us in our present form, I realise that it is actually organised religion that I hate.

I love 'god', more than anything I have ever known.



this is exactly how I feel



that's how christ wants it. religion has always been corrupt and easy to judge others.
Christ says I love you for who you are I know you've made mistakes it's ok I forgive you don't do it again.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: DocShamen]
    #23633554 - 09/10/16 07:01 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

DocShamen said:
Quote:

topdog82 said:
Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Quote:

pineninja said:
I was a devout atheist before...now :shrug:



Likewise. I was brought up in an atheist household. For as long as I can remember I have bitterly hated the word 'god' because of its association with organised religion.

However having now found, and come into contact with, what I believe is god/the source/etc, and feeling that whilst it is undoubtedly there, although inherently not understandable to us in our present form, I realise that it is actually organised religion that I hate.

I love 'god', more than anything I have ever known.



this is exactly how I feel



that's how christ wants it. religion has always been corrupt and easy to judge others.
Christ says I love you for who you are I know you've made mistakes it's ok I forgive you don't do it again.



Ya the central principle of Christianity isn't that messed up at all. Pretty positive and loving


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: topdog82] * 2
    #23634119 - 09/10/16 10:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

When we go against love (god) we cause ourselves to suffer (sin)

When we're tempted (mindfulness), we choose to enter heaven (love) or hell (suffering).

As the Bible repeatedly says, we are our own worst enemy. The devil is inside.

The kingdom of god is not a GPS address in the sky. It's an experience.

Luke 17:21 says the kingdom of god is within us all.

To be holy is to be whole. Humans tend to feel fractured, defective, and incomplete. 

 

I'm a devout atheist, but I find significant wisdom in Christ's teachings!


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles] * 3
    #23634149 - 09/10/16 10:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
drugs seperate your connection to the divine.  that is why muslims and other religions do not drink.  Or use.


Anyway I think that once you've accepted Jesus as Gods gift and payment for your sin debt you're gonna be alright.  Everyone questions things, it's human.  Just like every human being has thought about suicide at some point, it's normal.  If you were to stop using drugs I know you would re-establish your eternal connection with God and Christ.  It is the correct way, and there is nothing that is more important in this life.




The word "drug" is pejorative. Sacred Substances are considered to be medicines among those who utilize their assistance in sacramental fashion. Drugs in your biblical meaning are the Greek word pharmakeia, but this word refers to sorcery, low magick, thaumaturgy, which was inseparable from the substances that sorcery relied upon. For the most part, the plants utilized by sorcery create narcosis, delirium, or hallucinations such as those in the Solanaceae family, the Nightshades, Atropa belladona, Mandragora, Datura stramonium. The alkaloids in these plants are referred to as "nightmare alkaloids" and create true hallucinations, not the beautiful pseudo-visions of indole entheogens (which, incidentally means God-generated-within).

So, whereas certain substances do create a veritable Hell populated by montrosities, deformities, and abject horror, other substances deemed sacred by those of us with spiritual formation, both within and without a Christian idiom, can bring one to various degrees of communion if not union with divinity. The Initiation of Entheogenic Experience was an institution at Eleusis in Greece for over a millennia until fascists in the form of so-called Christians suppressed the practice. But from time to time throughout history, the truth of this Initiation has arisen in Christianity, fro ancient times to medieval times (see the mystic Jacob Boehme's art below from 400 years ago which illustrates the Christian trinity along mycological lines). The Christian Native American Church uses Peyote as a Christian sacrament with its own Christian mythology attached, the "Little Ones" or Psilocybe mexicana mushroom has been used in a context of healing rather than as a sacrament in a Christian context, the Santo Daime Church utilizes Ayahuasca in a syncretistic idiom, which like the Native American Church varies in its Christian content.

So, your ignorance of mysticism and high magick AKA theurgy/transcendental magick (of which Catholic Transubstantiation is a form), is revealed by your erroneous first statement. "Drugs" in the non-pejorative sense of medicines, not of lowly sorceries, DO INDEED facilitate connection with the divine. This has been demonstrated in those of us who over a period of several decades of life have had our entire point and purpose of life reoriented by the employment of Sacred Substances. Personal ethics have expanded to more and more universal proportion, including all people (and their faiths) and not only that but to animal rights as well. Beyond that, universal ethics need expand to the very planet Earth which is our very Mother, which sounds very 'native,' and is morally superior to the political-Christian corruption of the word dominion to mean domination, and thence exploitation, like the character of a despicable 'pastor' of a mega-church who lives in obscene opulence. IMO your preaching is biased to a particular mentality that embodies a mere husk of living Christianity, an artifact of a lived experience that so desperately clings to an old agenda that it uses falsehoods (i.e., that "drugs" separate one from divinity) to control others as orthodox Christianity has perpetrated for too long.

Learn something new about something rather old. That would include the use of Entheogens, but also you might learn that the vicarious sacrifice theology of mainstream Christianity is not the ONLY theology, and the one that you're pushing is not readily assimilable as we leave the Picean Age (The Fish, the original astrotheological symbol of the Christian era) and move into the Age of Aquarius. The Age of Aries (the Ram) characterized the patriarchal Abrahamic faith, Jesus characterizes the Picean Age, and you need to realize that humanity is entering a new manifestation of the Logos. A mythic 1st century Judean itinerant preacher is a vehicle, but the Truth requires Realization - being made Real in the individual. This is the biblical age of the Holy Spirit to be Realized within one's being, not put on a pedestal and worshipped without any Real change to one's corrupt "natural man." Look at the world. Look at history. Wake Up.

http://distelrath.tripod.com/fabbro.htm



Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/10/16 10:25 PM)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23634273 - 09/10/16 10:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Drugs separate our connection to love (the divine).

Anxiety separates our connection to love (the divine).

iPhones separate our connection to love (the divine).

Anger separates our connection to love (the divine).

Depression separates our connection to love (the divine).


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23634531 - 09/11/16 01:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I used to be an atheist years ago, then agnostic.  Then a spiritualist, and then a Hindu.

Then I became a Christian.  In Hinduism I "went deep" as one of you put it... lol.

You can actually trip without drugs, and that's what I did.  I ended up a Christian out of the experience.

See where "Christian" isn't right is that if you're religious and not doing relationship with Jesus, if you go deep like you did, the effects of that experience will undo your religiousness.  Religiousness is largely fear-driven, it's often just mental reasonings that don't hold water.

In many ways, religion is just structured viewpoints that men came up with.

But Jesus, really is a friend and someone we're supposed to learn and receive from.  Can you see how this would be different than religion?

This is the point of the scriptures, they point us to Jesus, but people try to make it into a structured thing.

This is the movement I am going out ministering with, we see miracles and healings:  www.thelastreformation.com ; <-- free documentary to watch about the movement on there

If you get over into the Holy Spirit, you can "trip" ... it's not a drug trip or a meditation trip...  but just joy and peace.  It's like a more positive version of what drugs and meditation attempts to achieve.


--------------------


2016 was a good year, +5 lb of Morels, and I ate 8 new species of wild mushrooms:  Herecium, Chanterelles, Black Trumpets, Parasol Mushroom, Fairy Ring Mushroom (marasmius oreades), Wild Oyster, Slippery Jacks, Honey Mushrooms (found over 100lb, froze 4lb in my freezer.)

Reference Pictures for Mushrooms


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: topdog82]
    #23635912 - 09/11/16 02:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

topdog82 said:

Ya the central principle of Christianity isn't that messed up at all. Pretty positive and loving



I agree. as well as most other religions as well. it's about finding your spiritual self and loving the creator, others, and most importantly one's


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Razare] * 2
    #23636185 - 09/11/16 03:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The historical Iesous, if he existed at all other than as a literary creation, was certainly mythologized in the gospels. Assuming there was one particular Isa/Y'shua from Nazareth, the man died two millennia ago, so whatever 'friend you have in Jesus' is a metaphorical one at best, seeing as how an Aramaic-speaking Judean peasant rabbi is not presently available to you. What you can claim without anyone knowing any differently is that you may have a relationship with the Logos, the Eternal Presence (or Present, for the transpersonalist).

Whether you realize or not, or acknowledge it or not, you are still practicing Bhakti Yoga, which you may have first learned through phenomenologically similar devotions with Lord Krishna. Among Krishna's devotees, the Bhagavad Gita teaches the "Divine Personality of the Godhead," and that such a personal relationship is superior to the 'impersonalist yogi' who in solitude meditates on "the plenary expansion of Vishnu in the Lotus of the Heart." One simply redirects from the "Lotus of the Heart" idiom to the 'Sacred Heart" (if one goes Catholic), or to the less picturesque references  to "the spiritual man" or "the inner man" in Protestantism or Eastern Orthodox Christianity.

So the bottom line is that the changes you have made are not essentially different. The divine names have changed, as have the corresponding scriptures, but the transcendental faculty at bottom remains the same in your psyche, as does your need for devotion to a personal God. I am not criticizing you for your devotions, but I am pointing out that since you are not dealing with things that are in form, it really doesn't matter that the object of your devotion is imagined to be a 1st century brown-skinned Judean or a blue-skinned god in Brahmanical Indian garb. Neither exists in space-time as form, both admit of personal and impersonal/transpersonal aspects, both assume peace-making as well as warrior stances in their respective scriptures, and both 'avatars' speak to a personal relationship forthe sake of salvation. :shrug:


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles]
    #23636244 - 09/11/16 04:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
fundamentalist notions?  oh really?   


Well if you dont believe in 5 things then you are not a Christian...


-virgin birth
-the diety of Christ (Jesus being he is who he says he is.... God in living flesh).
-the trinity (father, son, holy spirit)
-resurected from death
-his coming again

if you dont believe those 5 things. you're not a Christian.  You're something else.




I'm pretty sure the only thing you really absolutely have to believe in in order to fairly consider yourself christian is the power of Christ. And making 'him' a center point or primary figurehead in your spirituality.


I think we will see some new branches of christianity in our generation.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles]
    #23639650 - 09/12/16 07:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

People calling themselves Christian when they don't believe those things is one of the reasons I stopped calling myself a Christian sometimes when I minister.

I believe those 5 things, but a lot of "Christians" do not.

In this way I have seen value in distancing myself from "Christianity".  Christianity is really an unbiblical term.  I'm a disciple of Jesus Christ, sent to make disciples of the nations.  It was the other people who were not disciples that labeled us Christians.

So when I go up to a person in public to pray or what have you, to minister, I don't generally say "Christian"... I might sometimes, but a lot of Christians teach against supernatural divine healing.  In my view, 95% of Christianity is just religion, it's not what is in the Bible.

If you do what's in the Bible, it needs to have miracles like the book of Acts, if you don't see that, then you're doing something besides being a desciple.  Since I began ministering, I've seen a miracle almost every week since July...  so this is something like at least 8+ miracles in the last 2 months of supernatural healings, and other great things.

So to compare what I see with "Christianity" which involves sitting in a pew and not seeing the miraculous... it just mis-characterizes what I am involved with in ministry.


--------------------


2016 was a good year, +5 lb of Morels, and I ate 8 new species of wild mushrooms:  Herecium, Chanterelles, Black Trumpets, Parasol Mushroom, Fairy Ring Mushroom (marasmius oreades), Wild Oyster, Slippery Jacks, Honey Mushrooms (found over 100lb, froze 4lb in my freezer.)

Reference Pictures for Mushrooms


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Razare]
    #23643537 - 09/14/16 12:20 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Razare said:

If you get over into the Holy Spirit, you can "trip" ... it's not a drug trip or a meditation trip...  but just joy and peace.  It's like a more positive version of what drugs and meditation attempts to achieve.




Meditation does not seek to achieve anything.

There's no "goal". There's no failure in meditation.

There is no "trip" to be taken in meditation.

This is a common false misconception of a 2600 year old practice.

Of course Christ fasted and meditated for 40 days, as the story goes.

Most people feel fractured and incomplete. And defective and abnormal.

We all seek to be "whole", which is the root of the word "holy"

"God" means love (1 John 4:8) and Christ, the Prince of Peace, claimed to be born of love (god).

Many people want to make Jesus a good buddy.


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OfflineEywa_devotee
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23643716 - 09/14/16 03:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Question it all and learn, and learn until you remember who you are. One thing to ask yourself is, have you been a good Christian? Have you done in practice what Jesus preached? Have you even tried?


--------------------
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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Eywa_devotee]
    #23644029 - 09/14/16 08:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I don't believe any of that stuff and I certainly didn't need to do any drugs to reach those conclusions. I became an atheist by second grade. I know anything is possible, but bearing that in mind, I think the chances of 2,000 year old books having the key to creation and myths about the "afterlife" have about a one out of a billion chance of being true. Now more reasonable ideas for people of that era to develop, like morality, were done far better by the Greek philosophers earlier. As far as the Bible goes, I like a couple of moral ideas from the Old Testament, about revenge for the people who fuck you over. In the New Testament, I never got anything out of it except do unto others as you would have them do onto you, and let the one who is without sin cast the first stone.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles]
    #23644637 - 09/14/16 01:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
fundamentalist notions?  oh really?   


Well if you dont believe in 5 things then you are not a Christian...


-virgin birth
-the diety of Christ (Jesus being he is who he says he is.... God in living flesh).
-the trinity (father, son, holy spirit)
-resurected from death
-his coming again

if you dont believe those 5 things. you're not a Christian.  You're something else.




Who says you have to believe those things to be a christian?
You can call yourself whatever you want and believe some of those things or none of those things. but if you're smart you'll see that most of those tenants are more true on a metaphorical level than a superficial literal one. Although the trinity isn't mentioned anywhere in the bible it is a useful tool in understanding our relationship to the divine, namely that mankind is in christ who is in the father. This is why jesus called even the pharisees gods. The second coming is the revealing of this very thing, christ as mankind, even christ as all of creation. The virgin birth is the conscious awakening of spirit to start the same inward journey that jesus treked, leading to the death and resurrection thing, which is simply the death of the ego and the continuing of intelligent awareness, so that you can finally say "it is no longer I who lives but christ in me."


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23644694 - 09/14/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

1P-LSD and ALD52 have caused a huge shift in my religious views, absolutely.


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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: mt cleverest]
    #23644703 - 09/14/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Psychedelics are the perfect catalyst for experiencing the mythical death and resurrection of christ. In this crucifixion of the ego, like the picture of jesus, you draw all things unto you, rendering all things sinless by becoming everything, so that when "you" come back you see all of life as acceptable and good because you understand that You Are That. This non resistance to everything in life is what st. paul described as the Rest, which is the peace that passes all understanding.
Its no mistake that there are mushrooms depicted all over ancient christian art. It's also no mistake that the only agnostic who studied the dead sea scrolls claimed that christianity was a mushroom cult. Coolest religion ever.


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Invisiblenooneman
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles]
    #23644705 - 09/14/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
-virgin birth
-the diety of Christ (Jesus being he is who he says he is.... God in living flesh).
-the trinity (father, son, holy spirit)
-resurected from death
-his coming again




Not all denominations believe in all of those things. Specifically the trinity and the divinity of Christ, and especially the idea that Christ is God.

Denominations vary quite heavily on what percent divine Christ was. Some say 100%, some say 50%, some say 0%.

Likewise, the idea that Christ is God is very contentious. Tons and tons of denominations believe that Christ is God's son and as such is a completely separate entity from God. Other denominations believe that Christ IS God.

The trinity is mainly from Catholicism and some closely related "catholic-lite" denominations.


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: nooneman]
    #23645795 - 09/14/16 08:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

nooneman said:
Quote:

sprinkles said:
-virgin birth
-the diety of Christ (Jesus being he is who he says he is.... God in living flesh).
-the trinity (father, son, holy spirit)
-resurected from death
-his coming again




Not all denominations believe in all of those things. Specifically the trinity and the divinity of Christ, and especially the idea that Christ is God.

Denominations vary quite heavily on what percent divine Christ was. Some say 100%, some say 50%, some say 0%.

Likewise, the idea that Christ is God is very contentious. Tons and tons of denominations believe that Christ is God's son and as such is a completely separate entity from God. Other denominations believe that Christ IS God.

The trinity is mainly from Catholicism and some closely related "catholic-lite" denominations.




Right, I am always skeptical of people who say you're not a Christian if you don't believe X because what qualifies them to define what a Christian is? Christianity has over the centuries seen an incredible wide range of varying ideas and beliefs about God and Christ.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles]
    #23645943 - 09/14/16 09:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
fundamentalist notions?  oh really?   


Well if you dont believe in 5 things then you are not a Christian...


-virgin birth
-the diety of Christ (Jesus being he is who he says he is.... God in living flesh).
-the trinity (father, son, holy spirit)
-resurected from death
-his coming again

if you dont believe those 5 things. you're not a Christian.  You're something else.


there are non-Trinitarian denominations. c'mon Sprinkles. you know that there is pretty much every single variant you can think of in Christianity.

the New Testament is merely the collected stories of peoples personal experiences with God, Jesus and the divine, think about that concept; also note that i used relative terms here...the Holy Spirit is the divine. Jesus is the son, and God is the father...but think about how different my viewpoint is, altogether, just from changing the words.

Quote:

The virgin birth is based on an error that the author later designated as Matthew made because he was using the Septuigint Tenach written in Greek where there was only one word for young maiden and virgin - parthenos. If Matthew had used the Hebrew original he would've used the actual Hebrew prophesy in Isaiah 7:14 which reads almah (young woman), NOT betulah (virgin).




yes, Mark. it's funny how many people do not know this...funny, of course, due to the confusion involved. All Hail Eris.

but yeah...young women...never was "virgin". improper translation. just like the "Camel" trans. lol...it's Rope. not "Camel". though you do get some interesting synchronicity there, for sure. (Camel being a symbol of transport, from one side of something, to another -- liek a rope -- Hebrew is interesting)

@Sprinkles, you need less Bible, and more Eshoo. in otherwords, you should try to Eshoo that shit.

Quote:

Learn something new about something rather old. That would include the use of Entheogens, but also you might learn that the vicarious sacrifice theology of mainstream Christianity is not the ONLY theology, and the one that you're pushing is not readily assimilable as we leave the Picean Age (The Fish, the original astrotheological symbol of the Christian era) and move into the Age of Aquarius. The Age of Aries (the Ram) characterized the patriarchal Abrahamic faith, Jesus characterizes the Picean Age, and you need to realize that humanity is entering a new manifestation of the Logos




again, correct. the Fish is a mirror to the Ram, as they stand end on end. (and of course, you can expound on that; Jesus was the beginning of the end of the Picean age, perhaps. either way, it symbolizes a refreshing [ie, water] and renewing and beginning [eg, water]; and Aries symbolizes [like the Golden Ram] opulence, rule, decadence, obedience; and it's no surprise that what transpired was just that, that which was broken by the testament and then reassembled...from Pagen elements, of course. now that has been taken and reformed...renewed. of course renewed this time not by water, not refreshed, but renewed by fire, or reformed...which is it's own duality in nature.) the i figure, the way you gotta imagine it, is it runs counterclockwise in one wheel, and clockwise in one other wheel, both that spin within a bigger wheel of much greater magnitude of complexity. (sort of like the Mayan calendar works.)

the last part isn't so much important, just a theory.

but regardless, the Picean age of Christ is over, the world anointed, and the generation complete. the tinctures have been coagulated, and now are solvent again. the gyres turn into the new age, away from the duality of the Ram, the mirror model duplication of said model, the Pisces.

next we have an airy time, fishes flying out of the bowl and into the air, and into the streams.

many streams.


Edited by akira_akuma (09/14/16 10:25 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23648300 - 09/15/16 06:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Quote:

nooneman said:
Quote:

sprinkles said:
-virgin birth
-the diety of Christ (Jesus being he is who he says he is.... God in living flesh).
-the trinity (father, son, holy spirit)
-resurected from death
-his coming again




Not all denominations believe in all of those things. Specifically the trinity and the divinity of Christ, and especially the idea that Christ is God.

Denominations vary quite heavily on what percent divine Christ was. Some say 100%, some say 50%, some say 0%.

Likewise, the idea that Christ is God is very contentious. Tons and tons of denominations believe that Christ is God's son and as such is a completely separate entity from God. Other denominations believe that Christ IS God.

The trinity is mainly from Catholicism and some closely related "catholic-lite" denominations.




Right, I am always skeptical of people who say you're not a Christian if you don't believe X because what qualifies them to define what a Christian is? Christianity has over the centuries seen an incredible wide range of varying ideas and beliefs about God and Christ.




The usual formulation, and even the title of a theological classic by D.M. Baillie is God Was In Christ. Christ has the same etymology as chrism, oil. Christ means anointed, as in the ritual anointing with oil either in the Divine Right of Kings, or in Last Rites (the Sacrament of Extreme Unction before death in Catholicism), "...thou anointest my head with oil..." - Psalm 23. The Arian 'heresy' comes down to the present in the theology of the Jehova's Witnesses. In Arianism, Jesus Christ is not co-eternal with God but was created and is therefore ontologically subordinate to God who/which is Uncreated. In the Synoptic gospels, the Son of God, is 'a man anointed by God' NOT 'God clothed with flesh' as John's gospel teaches. The Johannine view has colored the Synoptic view so that many Christians don't even know the two perspectives but tend to take the Johannine view exclusively.

"Being in Christ" is a matter of Christ mysticism, which as Albert Schweitzer pointed out in The Mysticism of Paul the Apostle is different from God mysticism, which he says is not the New Testament teaches. As to the percentages that were debated in early Christianity, the orthodox position describes Christ as "fully God, fully man," but the unity of natures remains a mystery, not confounded as in the heresy of Adoptionism (a form of Monarchianism) which states that Jesus Christ was adopted by God, but did not partake of God's nature.

The Trinity was developed differently in the Catholic West and the Orthodox East (the schism between the two churches basically happened over The Filioque - whether there is a triangular relationship between Father, Son, and Holy Spirit or a linear emanation of Father -> Son -> Holy Spirit. A majority of Christians adhere to trinitarian doctrine of one kind or another. There is an interesting book about a strictly non-trinitarian monotheistic deity by Buzzard & Hunting called The Doctrine of the Trinity: Christianity's Self-Inflicted Wound. My late father-in-law, a Nigerian Muslim and a Ph.D. electrical engineer and CEO of the Siemens Corp. (a bright and very well-heeled man) lived to the last year of his life thinking that Christianity was a polytheistic religion, not monotheism, until I sent him explanations of the Holy Trinity from John McQuarrie's Principles of Christian Theology. Tertullian was the theologian who coined the term 'Trinity,' and he was excommunicated after becoming a Montanist, another sect of early Christianity that was judged heretical. Some theologians e.g., Pseudo-Dionysus, taught the absolute Oneness of the "Superessential Godhead" that transcended the Triune God. There is a lot of history about these metaphysical concepts but none of them apparently effect the practical aspects of human spirituality one way or another. :shrug:


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #23648816 - 09/15/16 09:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

it's funny how old the religion is, and people still A: don't understand the concepts within it, and B: it's so old, it's outdated, and specifically because so many people are "followers" but don't actually understand the concepts therein. and because they have no connection with the history, have no study, the preachers, mostly, teach them bullshit, and they have no real discourse on the subject...it's mostly just useless for them, or if anything, damaging.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3] * 1
    #23650588 - 09/16/16 01:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Zombie, please dont let a few psychedilc experiences shake your faith....Everyone who claims to be a follower of Yashuah will go through periods of doubt, or dry spells in the spirit. I guarantee that He is always faithful, it we who are not. If you take your doubts to Him with a humble heart, He will never forsake you. If you want to chat, send me a :pm: I believe the worst thing that ever happened to Christianity is it became a religion. <><


--------------------
Easily test the dosage of your tabs at home!:lsd:
qtests.org

Man says, "God, show me and I will believe." God says, "Believe and I will show you."


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #23650955 - 09/16/16 04:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

People are lazy and want to be told what to do. They want equally to be spoon-fed like children, only people are also boors without any taste or common sense so they swallow everything that is being fed to them. Look at the number of senseless, ignorant Trump supporters who are not alarmed at his HUGE ignorance about so many important matters (because they're also ignorant) especially his ignorance about nuclear weapons! 'We've got 'em why are they making them? Why not use them?' HELLO!!! :eek: How many people actually believe that a greedy psychopath actually regards the Bible as his favorite book? I have no idea, who believes that but it's one of his obvious lies. I don't know what happened to simple common sense, but I digress.

People cannot discern a truly malevolent, power-mad psychopath as being so evil and ignorant as not to vehemently eschew any thought of nuclear weaponry being used offensively, so how can they be expected to study subtle ideas that if taken seriously will also change one's inner and outer life? Like Nero playing his lyre as Rome burned, Trump would be playing with himself in the Cheyenne Mountain Facility with his family as the world burned. How do people who purportedly read the Bible not know anything about the tyrants who were in power throughout the early centuries of Christianity, and not see history repeating itself? :shrug: Christianity developed within certain historical, cultural, and philosophical milieus. The essential moral teachings are still relevant even if many of the cultural aspects (e.g., regarding slaves, women, homosexuality and beating you children) belong in the dust-bins of history.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23651556 - 09/16/16 09:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

instead of reading it as history and "prophecy", people will read it as commandments and the inerrant word of the deliverer of their souls. they can't see that the Bible has many stories of recompense due to God's many mistakes in trusting humans, and how that might come across in real world affairs. LOL, also, they don't see the actually rationale behind the creation of these texts. but they certainly believe the left are evil, devilish, liars.


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Invisiblemt cleverest
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23652248 - 09/17/16 06:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

TRUMP2016!


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: mt cleverest]
    #23652291 - 09/17/16 06:44 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

oh look.


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Offlineyeah
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23653435 - 09/17/16 03:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

yeah


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3] * 2
    #23653438 - 09/17/16 03:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zombi3 said:
I've been Christian my whole life and was always pretty happy about it.
Lately though I've been really thinking about it and after a few deep psilocybin trips and a crazy LSD trip recently I've really started to question myself...
I'm definitely still deeply spiritual and always will be, but yea I don't really think I would label myself a Christian anymore. Anybody in the same boat?




Let's just look on the bottom of things. What is christianity? A guilt complex that is based on the pretext that you are responsible for everything bad and evil that happened to the world. That you are the cause of literally all crap in the world, to the point that even "God" (who is a jew) had to descent and give its own "Son" so you can be saved, in a staged movie script straight from heaven. According to them, that's how retarded you are. You need to practice "Repenting" which consists of opening your soul to the jews, obeying and serving an otherwise "ominpotent" god, stay away from the Pagan Satan at all costs, and give all your hard earned labor in the form of "Charity" to "Brother Shekelstein" in your local church. Then, if you served the jews enough, you *MAY* be eligible to sing hymns eternally to an egopathic and jealous god in heaven. But oh wait, the bible on tis own states, that thou goyims shall never enter heaven, for thou are dogs in the flesh.

Doesn't mattery Goy! Keep on trying. Maybe if you produce a lot for the jews you will be good Shabbos and you will end up in the 2800 elect slaves of the Jews in the Messianic Empire of "God". Who being all powerful, has failed to obliterate the otherwise, "serving him" Satan, for thousands of years. Whom Satan by the way existed even before "god", and was worshipped by the whole planet, in our "godlessness".

Makes sense. All of it.

You need to repent to the jews, in order for the jews to rectify you for the sins, issues and problems they themselves discovered you have. Because you are such a cattle and a retard. Now make jews your god so they can save you from the problems they discovered that you have. Don't forget to fight to get into the jewish heaven, in which anyway, only 144,000 elect kikes will be. Don't question "god" because you are too dumb to understand anyway.

Guilt is nothing but an emotion that the jews push on humanity to open them to parasitism. This weakness is nothing but turning your blame on yourself for things you have never comitted. If any parasite on nature is advanced, this would be the emotion of choice, only second to love. Why the jews want love? Because the "love" is an attracting principle that works to synthesize opposites in nature. It can unite male and female and make amazing things happen, but wrongly placed it can materialize one's destruction and love for their death. What is mercy? The emotion the parasite jew causes to the human being that has discovered them for what they are and want to remove them from their body.

Due to the fear the servitude has produced, the victim is worried and afraid that removal of the parasite will harm them, which unfortunately may be the case in some ways. But its more worthy to try, than to let the infection happen until you are dead, isn't it? You may actually succeed in living parasite free, soul, mind and body. And get into a new and elevated state. But...But the jew said...Don't try to go above the throne of god (jews) like Satan, for you will be crushed.

Meanwhile in Heaven, there is a recorded video on what happens there:



Aren't you all of Goyims ashamed? Why don't you allow the holy jews to make you a slave, parasitize you, and kill you? Why do you still want to own a goddamned fucking "Soul", even after Rabbi Schneerson said your Soul is just an animal soul made from the "Satanic Spheres"? Just why?

Are you immoral bastards? Yes, that's what you are. No christian morals in you at all. Now, how the fuck will the jew succeed in damning you eternally, goyim? I guess by marital law or military power or something. Well, at least that is the desired plan. Otherwise jews will just lose the war against the "Goyim" and call it a day.

Seriously now, all these programs have the same root.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23653478 - 09/17/16 03:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
People are lazy and want to be told what to do. They want equally to be spoon-fed like children, only people are also boors without any taste or common sense so they swallow everything that is being fed to them. Look at the number of senseless, ignorant Trump supporters who are not alarmed at his HUGE ignorance about so many important matters (because they're also ignorant) especially his ignorance about nuclear weapons! 'We've got 'em why are they making them? Why not use them?' HELLO!!! :eek: How many people actually believe that a greedy psychopath actually regards the Bible as his favorite book? I have no idea, who believes that but it's one of his obvious lies. I don't know what happened to simple common sense, but I digress.

People cannot discern a truly malevolent, power-mad psychopath as being so evil and ignorant as not to vehemently eschew any thought of nuclear weaponry being used offensively, so how can they be expected to study subtle ideas that if taken seriously will also change one's inner and outer life? Like Nero playing his lyre as Rome burned, Trump would be playing with himself in the Cheyenne Mountain Facility with his family as the world burned. How do people who purportedly read the Bible not know anything about the tyrants who were in power throughout the early centuries of Christianity, and not see history repeating itself? :shrug: Christianity developed within certain historical, cultural, and philosophical milieus. The essential moral teachings are still relevant even if many of the cultural aspects (e.g., regarding slaves, women, homosexuality and beating you children) belong in the dust-bins of history.




I know you don't take this sensationalism seriously, your just playing with a bunch of drugged out dullard minds and laughing at them. Know one is seriously supporting trump in real life, that's only news papers. No mention of some 2,000,000 dead or dispossessed Lybians by the Hands of Obama and Hillary from you or the papers hmmm wonder why? All American presidents are cold mass murderers, Trump is no different.

Well the looks like it will soon be up with the Trump. The Joker is the Trump. Absolute communism just a couple of months away Hillery Trump or Donald Clinton. A real couple of Jokers. Jokers, Clowns, Jacks, Jacobs and Josephs. Lying, tricking, deranged, saboteur Trumps. Stop lying, all this is for your delight.


Edited by usulpsychonaut (09/17/16 04:00 PM)


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3]
    #23653728 - 09/17/16 05:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I started off as pretty much an agnostic or atheist, listening to Hitchens and Dawkins all day long to get a sense of One-Upping everyone. After reading a great deal of atheistic and christian reasoning I got really sick of it. I turned to Alan Watts and later on C.G Jung and that's when I chose to rather be an observer of this great never ending debate that is religion and different philosophies.

With that being said, I quit identifying myself with religious and philosophical beliefs and reasoning. I find great peace in simply being in touch with nature and reading all the points of view people have on these issues. But if I had to put a label and identify with something, it would be the great commentaries on the Upanishads or Taoism. A very western Taoist.


Edited by supremeshiva (09/17/16 05:23 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #23653834 - 09/17/16 05:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

All American presidents are not cold mass murderers. :lol: I'm not even going to engage you on politics after seeing this. YES, there WERE sanctions against Blacks and later Native Americans. No question. But Roosevelt and Truman were not the same kind of beings as Hitler, Hirohito, Mussolini, or Stalin. Grow up. :rolleyes: The leader of the free world has to make hard decisions that you or I would not be capable of.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/18/16 06:21 PM)


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23654567 - 09/18/16 12:16 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I was talking to a devout Christian yesterday, and he told me he believes the only way people can solve their problems
is thru god. I told him many people solve their problems and overcome huge difficulties independently. He disagreed.

He told me "people can't think their way out of their problems"

(which, BTW, is very similar to an AA slogan)

I've never considered that many Christians might disagree people have the ability to solve their problems, by themselves.

There's no way in hell Jesus would support that bullshit


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Offlineviktor
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #23654658 - 09/18/16 01:18 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I've never considered that many Christians might disagree people have the ability to solve their problems, by themselves.





Christianity is a slave religion, it's considered virtuous to be as weak and helpless as possible.


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #23656548 - 09/18/16 06:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

usulpsychonaut said:
Quote:

Zombi3 said:
I've been Christian my whole life and was always pretty happy about it.
Lately though I've been really thinking about it and after a few deep psilocybin trips and a crazy LSD trip recently I've really started to question myself...
I'm definitely still deeply spiritual and always will be, but yea I don't really think I would label myself a Christian anymore. Anybody in the same boat?




Let's just look on the bottom of things. What is christianity? A guilt complex that is based on the pretext that you are responsible for everything bad and evil that happened to the world. That you are the cause of literally all crap in the world, to the point that even "God" (who is a jew) had to descent and give its own "Son" so you can be saved, in a staged movie script straight from heaven. According to them, that's how retarded you are. You need to practice "Repenting" which consists of opening your soul to the jews, obeying and serving an otherwise "ominpotent" god, stay away from the Pagan Satan at all costs, and give all your hard earned labor in the form of "Charity" to "Brother Shekelstein" in your local church. Then, if you served the jews enough, you *MAY* be eligible to sing hymns eternally to an egopathic and jealous god in heaven. But oh wait, the bible on tis own states, that thou goyims shall never enter heaven, for thou are dogs in the flesh.

Doesn't mattery Goy! Keep on trying. Maybe if you produce a lot for the jews you will be good Shabbos and you will end up in the 2800 elect slaves of the Jews in the Messianic Empire of "God". Who being all powerful, has failed to obliterate the otherwise, "serving him" Satan, for thousands of years. Whom Satan by the way existed even before "god", and was worshipped by the whole planet, in our "godlessness".

Makes sense. All of it.

You need to repent to the jews, in order for the jews to rectify you for the sins, issues and problems they themselves discovered you have. Because you are such a cattle and a retard. Now make jews your god so they can save you from the problems they discovered that you have. Don't forget to fight to get into the jewish heaven, in which anyway, only 144,000 elect kikes will be. Don't question "god" because you are too dumb to understand anyway.

Guilt is nothing but an emotion that the jews push on humanity to open them to parasitism. This weakness is nothing but turning your blame on yourself for things you have never comitted. If any parasite on nature is advanced, this would be the emotion of choice, only second to love. Why the jews want love? Because the "love" is an attracting principle that works to synthesize opposites in nature. It can unite male and female and make amazing things happen, but wrongly placed it can materialize one's destruction and love for their death. What is mercy? The emotion the parasite jew causes to the human being that has discovered them for what they are and want to remove them from their body.

Due to the fear the servitude has produced, the victim is worried and afraid that removal of the parasite will harm them, which unfortunately may be the case in some ways. But its more worthy to try, than to let the infection happen until you are dead, isn't it? You may actually succeed in living parasite free, soul, mind and body. And get into a new and elevated state. But...But the jew said...Don't try to go above the throne of god (jews) like Satan, for you will be crushed.

Meanwhile in Heaven, there is a recorded video on what happens there:



Aren't you all of Goyims ashamed? Why don't you allow the holy jews to make you a slave, parasitize you, and kill you? Why do you still want to own a goddamned fucking "Soul", even after Rabbi Schneerson said your Soul is just an animal soul made from the "Satanic Spheres"? Just why?

Are you immoral bastards? Yes, that's what you are. No christian morals in you at all. Now, how the fuck will the jew succeed in damning you eternally, goyim? I guess by marital law or military power or something. Well, at least that is the desired plan. Otherwise jews will just lose the war against the "Goyim" and call it a day.

Seriously now, all these programs have the same root.





You've been spending too much time on that Joy Of Satan website.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23656552 - 09/18/16 06:29 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

People who make uncritical declarations about God are still stuck in a separatist mythic level of theism. They often imagine God according to the mythic language of the Bible which frequently likens God to a king on a throne, who is quite Zeus-like according to the same imagery that Greek and Roman myths partake of, in a Hebrew idiom instead. From a more mature and theological level, the English word God has to be approached with great subtlety  of thought wherein the idea of God's immanence is admitted instead of just some utterly transcendent 'Other.' The mythic Christian only conceives of God as Theistic, when Panentheistic is a concept that suggests God operating through human beinghood, while not being identical with us humans (which is Pantheism). Atheists are like fish denying the existence of water.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23656584 - 09/18/16 06:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Atheists i find really stuck in the mud, so to speak, because there needs to be a stance taken against rampant ornery Christiandom sort of invalidating and stomping out people whom ascribe themselves as atheists. know what i mean? sorta like a reaction to that kind of persecution. i think that's why it's ... necessary to an extent. a yin to the fundamentalist yang.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: usulpsychonaut] * 1
    #23656587 - 09/18/16 06:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Your psychotic thinking is excusable, your bigotry and antisemitic language is NOT excusable. You don't know any Jews, you have no Jewish friends and you have nothing but that typical tired paranoia born of deep insecurity. My recommendation with regard to espousing antisemitism here is simply STFU before you get a completely warranted ban. This is not one of those other forums which allows psychopathology free reign.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23656633 - 09/18/16 06:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I was raised in a fairly devout christian, the things that turned me off were A: the first commandment, no, I don't mean "Thou shalt take no gods before me" (Allthough that one did make me think, is god saying there really are other gods?) or even "Go forth and multiply"

no, the first commandment isn't written down anywhere, instead it is drilled into Christians almost before they can read, it is "Thou shall not put a question mark where we, the people who live off your donations, claim God put a period".

which leads to the second reason, to me, and this is only my opinion, it looks like the church, and all religions in general perpetuate themselves by brainwashing children, ever heard of the shakers?

didn't really shake my faith though, I still believe in God, I just don't believe that the church would recognize it if it jumped up and bit them in the ass.

Stay Safe

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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: viktor]
    #23656641 - 09/18/16 06:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I've never considered that many Christians might disagree people have the ability to solve their problems, by themselves.





Christianity is a slave religion, it's considered virtuous to be as weak and helpless as possible.




I thought God helps those who help themselves. Being weak or helpless are not considered virtues in the Bible. Rather, the Bible praises prudence, temperance, justice, courage, faith, patience, hope and charity. These are not the qualities of weak or helpless people.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23656646 - 09/18/16 06:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

the bible isn't really clear on that. it's more of a personal motivation, what you're ascribing to.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23656695 - 09/18/16 07:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
the bible isn't really clear on that. it's more of a personal motivation, what you're ascribing to.




Not sure I understand your meaning.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23656702 - 09/18/16 07:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I attempt to be corrective without being reactive. I don't blame people for rejecting anachronistic declarations of 'belief' from so-called Christians who are espousing mythic ideas as actual history. Neither do many people realize that many so-called Christians have not, like 50% of the American population, Formal Operational Thinking in place. Many many so-called Christians have Concrete Operational Thinking, and such people are very concrete in their thinking, hence the name. Speaking of God can at best be metaphorical, not factual. When the Bible uses expressions, like king, wonderful counselor, prince of peace, etc. these appellations are metaphors taken from human roles. Nobody can proclaim that God has desires let alone say what those desires are. Considering the Bible as "the word of God" is a poor attempt to draw ultimate authority from a collection of writings that were selected out of hundreds of other writings to meet the criteria of specific religious and political agendas. These sayings pertain to human God-concepts or to men who allegedly served as mouthpieces for the Deity (the prophets). Notice how many of the most outspoken self-righteous proclaimers of these ethics turn out to be profoundly hypocritical, with wealthy televangelists being the most corrupt amongst them.

The churches no longer oppress the multitudes under a theocracy, so the usual virulent attacks upon Christianity come from those people who have been victims of severe emotional abuse in religious guise when they were children. I heard many stories about the humiliations of Catholic friends at the hands of pathological nuns, decades before I became aware of priestly pedophilia. The Protestant minister who lived next door when I was growing up had a male 'organist' who we pegged as a pedophile. But I again digress. Christian ethics have improved since biblical times towards ownership of slaves and the treatment of women and children, but of course many still cling to condemnation of homosexuals even though there was no word in Greek for homosexual and it was King James (possibly a self-loathing homosexual) who inserted that condemnation in his 1611 English translation of the Greek manuscripts. So, Christian ethics needs to continue to improve in its acceptance, forgiveness, and compassion (agapé).

Atheists can be ethical based on rational Utilitarianism - I've known some. But as soon as one sets the game plan to equate the notation God = Ultimate Reality, and the discussion becomes metaphysical and speculative, or mystical and experiential, the atheist is stopped dead in his tracks. He cannot proceed because atheists either cannot or will not move out from behind their mother's skirts of materialism. Suggest consciousness (or archaically, spirit) as having ontological priority, and since the 5 senses can discern it, abstracting Thinking and Intuition are undeveloped, the debate ends in their inability (or disability as it were).


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23656726 - 09/18/16 07:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

oh sure. i like to tell Atheists that they are just as religious as anybody, lest they admit their agnosticism.

and of course, i'd say most Christians, literally a good 90% of all Christians in the US, or even more...are committing the sin, consistently, of bearing false witness. i mean...constantly. ;D

also, the insertion of anti-homoexuality...yep. also, even that very insertion is still overblown out of context...also, Jesus fulfilled "the law", right? he also said nothing about being gay and how it's a sin...just how that sex is a sin (even though that's not really so simple as people tend to make it out...sex for lack of a reason is a sin. procreation for the sake of worshipping God isn't, somehow. i'd need a theology major to help me out with that one -- Markos?)

the Greeks had three classes for human gender -- male/male, female/male, and female/female.

or so i hear -- but maybe that's just oversimplified, to an extent.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23656737 - 09/18/16 07:25 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I've never considered that many Christians might disagree people have the ability to solve their problems, by themselves.





Christianity is a slave religion, it's considered virtuous to be as weak and helpless as possible.




I thought God helps those who help themselves. Being weak or helpless are not considered virtues in the Bible. Rather, the Bible praises prudence, temperance, justice, courage, faith, patience, hope and charity. These are not the qualities of weak or helpless people.




Christianity perverts healthy moral values into slave ones. The admonition to "turn the other cheek" is clearly intended to encourage submission among the believers.

Hope is definitely a quality of weakness.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3] * 2
    #23656838 - 09/18/16 07:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I didn't read many of the replies Zombi3, because... well... the first few pages hurt my brain.

I don't think there is a right and wrong answer to what you should believe in. I have never been religious, or not religious. Spirituality can be a fluid concept that changes over time, and if you feel Christianity isn't right for you, well... then it isn't. What you can be sure of is that all religions will all be waiting if you choose to turn to them, and the only thing that really matters is if you are a good person or not.


--------------------
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and the pattern picks the pockets of the palindrome, before the oscillating rhythm takes to flight..." - Rishloo



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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23656847 - 09/18/16 08:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
I attempt to be corrective without being reactive. I don't blame people for rejecting anachronistic declarations of 'belief' from so-called Christians who are espousing mythic ideas as actual history. Neither do many people realize that many so-called Christians have not, like 50% of the American population, Formal Operational Thinking in place. Many many so-called Christians have Concrete Operational Thinking, and such people are very concrete in their thinking, hence the name. Speaking of God can at best be metaphorical, not factual. When the Bible uses expressions, like king, wonderful counselor, prince of peace, etc. these appellations are metaphors taken from human roles. Nobody can proclaim that God has desires let alone say what those desires are. Considering the Bible as "the word of God" is a poor attempt to draw ultimate authority from a collection of writings that were selected out of hundreds of other writings to meet the criteria of specific religious and political agendas. These sayings pertain to human God-concepts or to men who allegedly served as mouthpieces for the Deity (the prophets). Notice how many of the most outspoken self-righteous proclaimers of these ethics turn out to be profoundly hypocritical, with wealthy televangelists being the most corrupt amongst them.

The churches no longer oppress the multitudes under a theocracy, so the usual virulent attacks upon Christianity come from those people who have been victims of severe emotional abuse in religious guise when they were children. I heard many stories about the humiliations of Catholic friends at the hands of pathological nuns, decades before I became aware of priestly pedophilia. The Protestant minister who lived next door when I was growing up had a male 'organist' who we pegged as a pedophile. But I again digress. Christian ethics have improved since biblical times towards ownership of slaves and the treatment of women and children, but of course many still cling to condemnation of homosexuals even though there was no word in Greek for homosexual and it was King James (possibly a self-loathing homosexual) who inserted that condemnation in his 1611 English translation of the Greek manuscripts. So, Christian ethics needs to continue to improve in its acceptance, forgiveness, and compassion (agapé).

Atheists can be ethical based on rational Utilitarianism - I've known some. But as soon as one sets the game plan to equate the notation God = Ultimate Reality, and the discussion becomes metaphysical and speculative, or mystical and experiential, the atheist is stopped dead in his tracks. He cannot proceed because atheists either cannot or will not move out from behind their mother's skirts of materialism. Suggest consciousness (or archaically, spirit) as having ontological priority, and since the 5 senses can discern it, abstracting Thinking and Intuition are undeveloped, the debate ends in their inability (or disability as it were).




I agree with everything you've said here and reading this helps me to organize my own thoughts. The Bible uses metaphors to describe spiritual principles but people take the metaphors as  "spiritual fact". But if they were actual facts there would not be a need for the metaphors. It's the idefinable, ineffable nature of experience that makes spiritual experiences difficult to communicate.


But at the end do you mean to say the five senses can't discern it instead of can?


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: viktor]
    #23656980 - 09/18/16 08:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I've never considered that many Christians might disagree people have the ability to solve their problems, by themselves.





Christianity is a slave religion, it's considered virtuous to be as weak and helpless as possible.




I thought God helps those who help themselves. Being weak or helpless are not considered virtues in the Bible. Rather, the Bible praises prudence, temperance, justice, courage, faith, patience, hope and charity. These are not the qualities of weak or helpless people.




Christianity perverts healthy moral values into slave ones. The admonition to "turn the other cheek" is clearly intended to encourage submission among the believers.

Hope is definitely a quality of weakness.





Turn the other cheek means don't waste time on petty revenge watch this video:



--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: viktor]
    #23656990 - 09/18/16 08:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:

Hope is definitely a quality of weakness.



there is a trade-off. religious people, as a rule of thumb, according to statistics, are more charitable, overall, more than non-religious people.

Christians, especially. and Muslims.

:shrug: there are trade-offs.

i certainly think that a: the new testament might have been trifled with, or conceived, with the purpose of creating an archetypal martyr figure, easily removed by Roman authorities; and b: that within the Torah was basically conceived an attempt to inculcate magical thinking into a group, to have them believe that the world was created for them, in order to have people propagate more along the lines of a master race.

all this in the guise of paganism, early in religions origins.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23657157 - 09/18/16 09:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Hope is not necessarily weakness either in my opinion, it's not full maturity but hope gives you strength in tough times. People who give-in to circumstances often lack hope.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23657200 - 09/18/16 10:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

there's nothing immature about hope, intrinsically.

a healthily coping adult will expect the outcome of better days, because this helps prolong the incentive/drive to procreate.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23657222 - 09/18/16 10:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I agree, I meant it's not full maturity of spiritual realization because then the spiritual vision is there and no longer needs to be hoped for.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23657227 - 09/18/16 10:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

oh, i see what you mean now.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23657256 - 09/18/16 10:41 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:
Hope is not necessarily weakness either in my opinion, it's not full maturity but hope gives you strength in tough times. People who give-in to circumstances often lack hope.




Good point, I agree with this. If you've got it tough then having hope is better than giving in.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23657423 - 09/18/16 11:54 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Peyote Road said:

I thought God helps those who help themselves.




The phrase "God helps those who help themselves" is credited to the Greek storyteller Aesop.

(And also Benjamin Franklin)          It's not Biblical.


Quote:

viktor said:

Hope is definitely a quality of weakness.





Many people teach against the concept of hope, as it's rooted in a desire that reality be different than it is.

Pema Chödrön repeatedly says, to "abandon hope" is great wisdom.

Even Oprah Winfrey says, "Hope is one step away from desperation." 

(That said, to believe we can change is another thing.)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23657436 - 09/19/16 12:06 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

the same people who'll teach that desire in general is fallacy.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23657440 - 09/19/16 12:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I've never heard anyone teach that desire is a fallacy.

Desire is quite real. And normal. But to become attached to it can cause misery.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23657446 - 09/19/16 12:12 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Without hope the pawns wouldn't move. The promise of a purpose and a finish is integral to concious life whether it be a lie or not imo.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23657447 - 09/19/16 12:14 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
I've never heard anyone teach that desire is a fallacy.

Desire is quite real. And normal. But to become attached to it can cause misery.



Buddha and many others taught it was a fallacy. and illusion.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23657473 - 09/19/16 12:27 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:

Buddha and many others taught it was a fallacy. and illusion.




Because hope is a fantasy.    Right?

It meets every definition of a fantasy.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23657484 - 09/19/16 12:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Buddha might have been enlightened with that knowledge. it is no longer enlightening, at this point in time, anymore. hope is a thing that people feel when it is necessary that they feel it. false hope is the danger. you should be worried about false hope.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23657493 - 09/19/16 12:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

To hope for a particular future is insanity.

To believe we can change is another thing entirely.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23657505 - 09/19/16 12:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

that sounds like dogmatic horse-malarky. no offence.

you seem clasped in the grip of moral dogma.

to hope for a particular future is exactly what hope is...to have a feeling of optimistic expectation for the future, ie, feeling happy that one might aspire to something one day, or for someone to come into their life that might fill them with joy ect.

not all martyrs succeed, and in fact, most rarely do. same goes for Buddhist practitioners. let go. or at least recognize, so that you may let go, that you're not the teacher. neither is whomever whom taught you.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23657524 - 09/19/16 12:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Humans are plagued with self-loathing and powerlessness, so the belief we can change is healthy and helpful.

Pema says,

“Hope and fear come from feeling that we lack something; they come from a sense of poverty.
We can’t simply relax with ourselves. We hold on to hope, and hope robs us of the present moment.”


You can call it dogma if you wish. Some of us call it wisdom.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23657536 - 09/19/16 01:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

there you go again, moral dogmatism. "some of us". who is "us"?

i don't call it wisdom because it isn't wisdom, friendo.

you lack something, right now. it's called logic. people need to lack something, because they don't already have everything.

a piece of bread is more enlightenment then twenty years of relaxing.

what you're looking to is an old outdated system of abandoning reason to suffering. to denying ones self the activity outside of poverty, because your moral system was derived from poverty. a poverty which you don't exist in.

kill the Buddha you're listening to, because it's not wisdom he espouses.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23657561 - 09/19/16 01:35 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Dogma is a principle laid down by an authority as incontrovertibly true.

I've done no such thing. I said "some" people call it wisdom.

I don't worship Krishna, Buddha, Christ, or the Cookie Monster. 

One can be positive and optimistic without hope.

Aristotle said, "Hope is a waking dream."

It's OK to dream, but let's call it what it is.    A dream.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23657566 - 09/19/16 01:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

and let's call those sayings what they are, epigrams. and aphorism. a witticism. it's a nice way to say that you can't RELY ON HOPE. that's not to say HOPE IS BAD.

i hope you learn to realize the difference. you are clearly espousing the dogma of authority. you keep quoting authorities on the subject. i'm telling you that is foolish, and to keep doing so is more harm than good, especially in this context. you are giving fallible advice which seeks to be corrected.

hope is literally a feeling. it can't be helped. it's not going to harm you in any way, unless you hold on to false hope, and lose your reasoning. there is no reason to presume that hope, in and of itself, is bad, damaging in anyway, or results in one feigning positivity or optimism, or trading positivity or optimism in lieu for something negative. it's only the attachment to false hope that is negative.

those who are attached to their awareness, are fine. better than fine. and you can hope all you like, as long as it stifles not your awareness.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23657599 - 09/19/16 02:14 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Many people teach against the concept of hope, as it's rooted in a desire that reality be different than it is.

(That said, to believe we can change is another thing.)




no, it isn't another thing. it's the same thing. saying it's something different just for the sake of argument doesn't work.

hope is not rooted in a desire that reality be different than it is, first of all; it is an emotion that can arise from states of no-desire.

secondly: reality is always different that what it once was...and always is. it's ever-changing, and revolving, though it's fundamental mechanics may not see change, invariably, for exorbitant amounts of time, they are always producing new results/reflections that can effect the change of the overall paradigm of reality.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23657662 - 09/19/16 03:25 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Why do you never make sense


--------------------
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23657720 - 09/19/16 04:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

think of my words like zen koans.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23660127 - 09/19/16 09:41 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

To hope would be just to have an opinion that a certain outcome would be better, when all experiences are equal in science, so to have hope would in fact be delusional, hince dream state of consciousness.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: bigdoodie]
    #23660241 - 09/19/16 10:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

science doesn't deal with emotions, as emotions are subjective. you fail. all science has knowledge of, in regards to emotions, are opinions; as emotions aren't measurable.

:facepalm:

wtf. a person hears something once...automatically they live by it like it's law. hope is bad...HOW?

PS: according to you the emotion 'hope' is delusional. wrong. the emotion can be irrational. there's a difference. it can also be rational..."i have hope that i'll pass the test with what i've studied and put down as my answers".

period.

an emotion isn't delusional just because it can't be quantified. a feeling is as real as it feels. would you call yourself getting mad for being bitchslapped delusional?


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23660763 - 09/20/16 05:54 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Your psychotic thinking is excusable, your bigotry and antisemitic language is NOT excusable. You don't know any Jews, you have no Jewish friends and you have nothing but that typical tired paranoia born of deep insecurity. My recommendation with regard to espousing antisemitism here is simply STFU before you get a completely warranted ban. This is not one of those other forums which allows psychopathology free reign.




Don't see any Refugees Welcome signs in Israel. Hillary's murdering Syrians for you and these folks
While Trumpy is Anti War, Isolationist and wants to stop injecting Israeli poisons into american babies, children youth so you don't like him. The entire establishment backs Hillary along with so called tripper MarkTheGnostic. CONFORM OR STFU.


Edited by usulpsychonaut (09/20/16 05:55 AM)


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #23660811 - 09/20/16 06:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

false dichotomy. when you're falling pray to black-and-white thinking, you know you've drunk too much kool-aid.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23662086 - 09/20/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Well I was immunized but I did not get 20 shot's by 2 years of age or 60 by the age of 18. It only takes 1 shot to cause Autism, I could be borderline.



I am not an American and I don't care, I didn't ask for this election to be a part of my life. This shitty News Paper comes to my house every day and it shits on Trump and Trumps Hillary every day.  It is clear that the entire establishment opposes Trump in the media circus. Talk about black and white.

Will Trump really put a stop to injecting filth into babies? That would be real spiritual.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #23662095 - 09/20/16 03:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

oh yeah, i forgot, Trump is anti-vaccine.

:facepalm: thanks for reminding me.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23662331 - 09/20/16 04:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I am off the kool aid, all of it. I know Jews, I've read their books and I have empathy for humankind. Gentile children are raised on kool aid, when/if we grow up we get off it.
Quote:

What I Learned From The Psychiatric Industry
September 16, 2016 Seaxwulf 21 Comments
I’m somewhat averse to blowing my own horn and writing about myself… However, during a spring cleaning session through which I cleaned out the Underworld (my basement) I was confronted with a large swathe of my past. It occurs to me that a lot of my experiences are (a)typical an illustrative of so much of what Renegade has been preaching since I began listening to the Lads back in 2013.

My trip down memory lane began with the finding of my birth records, which were buried in the same box as the legal paperwork my father saved from when I was taken to court in Middle School. More on that later.

Experience and observation has taught me what everyone here reading probably already knows. Psychiatry is a parasitic enterprise which comes from alien hands. The psychiatric pulse is not responsible for its handiwork, and is not held accountable for its actions. It is the ultimate mad scientist; a microcosmic metaphor for the broader Zionist scheme that overshadows it like a hulled out sun. (Incidentally, for your pleasure, look up the connections between Israeli and American pharmaceuticals. Significant drug money finds its weight in shekel, coming into Zionist hands.) However, what separates me from the casual observer is that I have distinct memories of my childhood – from the earliest up until my refusal to submit further at eighteen.

Like many American children, at the first sign of abnormal behaviour in me as a boy, the ‘doctors’ and ‘experts’ were quick to prescribe a world of drugs. Their evidence? I had learned to walk before I learned to crawl. I cried, frequently. I had infant insomnia.

Even as an infant I had received promises of antisocial diagnoses. And my parents (mostly my mother) in her desperation and well meaning, trusted in her medicinal saviours. The doctors successfully bred an atmosphere of expectation and dread. From my birth, Ma was conditioned to look for signs of antisocial, sociopathic behaviour. And successfully so. Thanks to dramatic psychiatric standards, there was a psychosis lurking under every rock.

Medications began. And so did methodology. When I resisted medications as a baby, a toddler anyways, the recommendation was; “you’ll have to force it into him, it’s for his own good.” And so I was sat down, held at the shoulders and fed medication. Much like a dog who’s forced to eat pills wrapped in cheese.

My sensory issues were jumped upon. It was never considered that my ‘sensory integration’ was a gift. That my hearing and smell are simply above average. No. It’s an abnormality that needs correcting. The solution? Regular brushings and being massaged with cheesecloth.

By the third grade I was a familiar with various medications. Nortriptyline was a keypoint. The green and white capsules marked my memories as a childhood, and how I would spit them up in secret. Until supervised medication times were implemented.

I want to stress that nobody in my family was a villain. I hold no ill will. My parents were as much a victim as I, as they had been led to do these things by the industry. The industry, which capitalised on their insecurities and exacerbated them, and cared only for more shekels to grease their wheels.

In the second grade I was put on a Ritalin regimen. It ruined my metabolism and gave me bizarre tics. The inclement weight problem was an issue I struggled with until college. Eventually, I caught on, and learned how to fake symptoms. This allowed me to get off a variety of meds. But there was always another Lipshitz, another Silverstein, another Greenberg, another ZOG, waiting to cram something new and exotic into me.

I sat through counselling sessions. My favourite sessions were in Portland, where my parents paid a narcoleptic Jew to sleep while I talked about myself in private. I drew pictures. Less humorous was my child psychiatrist from Freeport, who later was indited for death-threats. He collected purposely mis-prescribed meds from kids to fuel his own addiction. He also intimidated children into behaving. “I can prescribe you something that can kill you so quietly and nobody will even ask any questions.” He was let off the hook with a warning and a censure to his license. The reason? He got a diagnosis for mental trauma because his wife had died in a plane crash.

Where was my excuse?

In Middle School, I came into full swing and was put on watch. Mind you, I was a Middle Schooler in the wake of 9-11 and everyone was a potential terrorist. Especially fat kids with issues. By this time, I had succumbed to an unspoken element of the programming. My survival instinct had come to tell me that the only way to escape from the medication trap was to become “normal.”

Normality, for a Middle School, in today’s society enlists an element of sheepish cruelty. There was a kid – who himself was a bully and a pretentious dweeb – who was ridiculed quite heartily by the hoi polloi. I enlisted myself in their crusade – after all, I had never forgiven the boy for hitting me in my testicles with a whittling stick at Boy Scout camp.

Eventually, because it was known I received counselling, and was on medication, the boy’s mother used me as a scapegoat to make an example to all who would torment the ‘underdog.’ (It pays to be a rich victim.) The mother spun a story. When I recovered my paperwork the other day, I was almost stunned to read the charges against me. (Death threats, assault, vandalism, spreading propaganda in the form of violent artwork.)

There were no significant evidences against me, save for a ghost story I had written, and a picture I had done in art class depicting sodomites and semites roasting in Hell. I was also on record as having called the boy a “faerie god-mother,” and a “goddamned hermaphrodite.” (That last part was true.)

But. I had still touched on a number of extreme taboos. I had threatened diversity: both racial and sexual. This when the glorious LTBBQ XYZ-123 Committee on Perverse Relations had just implemented their clubhouses for young sickos in schools across the country. (Taste the Rainbow, Goy.)

My Counsellor was subpoenaed, and all my sensitive psychological profiles were released to the court and made evidence. In the end, the charges were dropped against me, but I was forced to agree to a ‘voluntary’ restraining order.

This led to a major clamp-down on my psychiatric conditioning. I was then forced to go to youth group counselling with other “autistic” boys. (I’m sorry, I forgot to mention that they added Asperger’s to the increasingly massive list of diagnoses.) It was traumatising enough for me, in that I was grouped with the most neurotic boys that could be found. In my young mind, I came to believe that this is what the world assumed I was. A manic, translucent basement dweller who touched himself at inappropriate times. I then gave up on trying to be normal. There was no hope.

Now I was consumed with becoming a proper social agitator.

This sort of thing went on until I was eighteen. At eighteen I fully exploited consent laws and completely refused any further medication and counselling. I had successfully identified psychiatry as a parasitic and hostile enemy, but I had no ammunition to see the sniveling Jew behind the curtain. It never occurred to me, in my naïveté, to count the common denominators. That virtually all my psychiastrists were Jewish, or at least relied upon Semitic blanket theories, did not bother me. I thought nothing of it. That many of them were open homosexuals, did not occur to me.

None of this occurred to me. It also didn’t matter. I was free of all that then. Or so I thought.

The truth is, the ten years or so of psychiatric youth had robbed me of a natural childhood. I had a weight problem that was not natural. I had no idea if the personality that I had developed was mine, or simply the result of medication. I lacked the necessary instincts to have self-belief. I lacked the components to make certain decisions.

I spent the next five years in relative isolation, attempting to reassemble the puzzle pieces in my brain. Tracing each thought pattern, mapping each response and measuring the emotional outcome. Assessing my body in terms of early youth and present decay.

It wasn’t until mid-college that I saw in full swing the mess that I had become. In a Mission Trip to Guatemala, I realised how comically backwards this all was. In the summer that followed, I lost weight and began to pinpoint the exterior causatives that had held-up my interior deficiencies.

During the year that followed, my truth was revealed. I met an old German Church Lady – a wreck of life. She knew all the things that I had missed, but had all but ceased to care. She medicated herself freely. She sneered and jeered, and was broken. She also took the time to reveal to me that it was precisely the Jew who had so subtlely engineered the decay. It was the Jew who had led us to the path of wanton self-indulgence. We swallowed the poison, but we had no cause for defence for we believed the lies. We Teutons, she and I agreed, were naïve as a race.

It was also through this summer that I discovered Renegade, and oversaw the collapse of my former Catholicism. I suppose, though, that the recovery from that summer begins my writing in Nationalism, and delineates the need to write further.

There is no takeaway from this article. It serves only to illustrate what a youth often goes through, and remind those who might forget, why the weaker do not see our terms. The struggle for the young is real, and for each and every Nationalist, the terms of our extradition from the system came with a significant mental cost.

Ave Victoria.


http://www.renegadetribune.com/learned-psychiatric-industry/

I can relate. Pretty typical. Americans are physically very sick, it's frequently reported in NZ media too. Every wonder why you have to eat shit?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #23662362 - 09/20/16 04:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

WHAT?

eat shit? i don't eat shit. i eat whatever the fuck i want. i've got myself on a pretty healthy diet.

renegadetribune? doesn't sound like it's all to unbiased a source of ethics.

some kid realized that he was supposed to rebel against a cosmically maltreated existence, instead of falling in line with authority?

WHAT THE FUCK does that have to do with Jews?


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Invisiblebrk
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23662416 - 09/20/16 05:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

What the fuck does any of this have to do with the op?


--------------------
"To the young it gives a vision of the dead and gone. While the old receive a passion to survive,
and the pattern picks the pockets of the palindrome, before the oscillating rhythm takes to flight..." - Rishloo



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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: brk]
    #23662461 - 09/20/16 05:32 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

people are, very clearly, and obviously, discussing the "questioning of their religious views" and/or OP's religious views; and giving him advice, and refuting unhelpful beliefs, regarding ones views for themselves as a christian, by way of inquiring about the OP's dilemma.

seriously, sorry for coming across ... mean-spirited. the political trash people are trolling with and peddling around makes me start seething. all i am doing is trying to thwart that nonsense, whilst trying to stay on topic.


Edited by akira_akuma (09/20/16 05:54 PM)


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: usulpsychonaut] * 1
    #23662488 - 09/20/16 05:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I recommend the therapy my mother used to suggest: "Go bang your head against a wall," to which I'll add, "until you knock yourself out and STFU about hate." :banghead: That's about as compassionate as I can muster for a bigot, psychotic or not. The compassion is directed at the rest of us so we don't have to see shit on the forum. Try conforming to standards of decency. Your paranoid political positions are irrelevant.


--------------------
γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic] * 1
    #23662640 - 09/20/16 06:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

what you're looking to is an old outdated system of abandoning reason to suffering. to denying ones self the activity outside of poverty, because your moral system was derived from poverty. a poverty which you don't exist in.

Interesting point.


--------------------
Hostile humankind
Can't you see you're fucking blind?


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #23663233 - 09/20/16 09:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Although there is some truth in your post, consider this.

I have been part of the NZ mental health system for 21 years and have seen probably 40 psychiatrists or more.

The one doctor who actually told me the truth about the pills and how they were not always necessary and were pushed on patients by drug manufacturers was a Jew.

I'd have to look into the Israeli links to pharma companies and so on, but I can tell you that my experience as a mental health patient does not match up with the idea that Jews are pushing drugs through psychiatry.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: viktor]
    #23663587 - 09/20/16 11:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

That happens, here is another example of a Jew telling the truth.

This is all completely relevant to the O.P. Just don't submit to the Galactic Obliteration Device. Your soul will just become food.

What hate? Where?


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23663736 - 09/20/16 11:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:

hope is not rooted in a desire that reality be different than it is...




The definition of the word hope is,

"A feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen."

All feelings are created by thoughts.

Desire is a feeling, and it's root is found in our thinking.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23663826 - 09/21/16 12:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I'm pretty certain you are not unconscious, rather you are here to reinforce the white genocide program.

For the benefit of any gentiles here, how about this fellow and his book Sweet Dreams and Terror Cells

Quote:

I found this book very moving. Mr. Raymond, an Indian, living in Canada examines the struggles the white race is facing in the new world order.
He illustrates the unique qualities of the Caucasian mind and soul, and how it differs from the other ethnic groups. Using streams of consciousness of various characters the creative gifts of the white culture is addressed. A love and kinship for animals.and the tales of beloved literature is amply investigated and contracted with non-white societies. The author makes an excellent argument that the planet would lose a great deal if the white race were to become extinct or absorbed into other races.




Here is an Renegade Broadcasting audio interview with Frank Raymond, there is nothing hateful about any of this. The only haters are those who keep bringing up accusations of hate.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #23663882 - 09/21/16 12:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The white race will never become absorbed into other races. Even if it did, it would only be temporary. As long as fair hair, skin and eyes are considered more attractive by the average male (and it's possible that they always will be) then any blending of races will only lead to a situation where white genes drive out the others from the inside as they are selected for at a disproportionately higher rate all around the world.

Just look at Maoris in New Zealand or even blacks in the USA to a lesser extent: the younger ones are whiter than the older ones.


--------------------
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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23664115 - 09/21/16 04:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

akira_akuma said:

hope is not rooted in a desire that reality be different than it is...




The definition of the word hope is,

"A feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen."

All feelings are created by thoughts.

Desire is a feeling, and it's root is found in our thinking.



the moral code of centuries ago in the Indian subcontinent is not applicable to your life in toto, you live a completely different life than they did.

good luck trying to repeat yourself.

hope arises from thought...so? how in the fuck is this a negative thing. whatever. there's no point in arguing.

yes, i said so, already. hope is a feeling. SO?


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: viktor]
    #23664124 - 09/21/16 05:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

There is advance stage white genocide in South Africa and Zimbabwe. My Nation prides itself in having advocated for white genocide in South Africa as if that is something to be proud of.

Now thanks to psycho America deliberately causing violent chaos in Libya and Syria for no reason Europe is being invaded. Its a invasion. South Africa is coming to
to every white doorstep.

Then there are prolific white genocide indoctrination programs like white history month attacking innocent children, outright psychological warfare.

Jewish Hollywood lies don't stop
Quote:

The new Hollywood film “Denial” starring Rachel Weisz as Deborah Lipstadt is due to be released. http://DenialTheFIlm.com will release a video series on the film “Denial”, Deborah Lipstadt’s falsehoods, the David Irving / Deborah Lipstadt defamation trial, and the falsehoods of those who made billions believe millions of Jews were gassed in fake shower rooms.

Part 1 – Introduction
Presents a brief introduction to Holocaust Revisionism.
Shows the trailer for the film “Denial” which will be analyzed closer in later parts.
An analysis of the casting and pre-production casting changes to the movie “Denial.” The filmmakers make Irving look like a monster and Lipstadt like an angel.
Deborah Lipstadt demonizes Revisionists yet parroted bogus Soviet propaganda claim of 4 million Auschwitz dead.
A preview of the next part in the video series…

Part 2 – The Reader, Majdanek’s lost gas chambers, and Lipstadt slams skeptics while parroting 1.7 million Majdanek dead.
The screenwriter of Denial, David Hare’s previous Holocaust film “The Reader” shows two formerly alleged homicidal gas chambers at Majdanek now officially admitted never to have been used to gas anyone. Majdanek’s FIVE embarrassing falsely labeled “homicidal gas chambers”, and Deborah Lipstadt parrots the phony figure of 1.7 Million Majdanek dead.




Think Rotherham child sexual exploitation, the police will not serve and protect white girls because to do so would be Racist... Hateful. So now people who accuse others of hate or racism enable the rape of children. Feminists don't even care about Rotherham child sexual exploitation. Why? cause Muslims (Cousins of Jews) raping little white girls is considered social justice.

This is Galactic Obliteration Devices plan. Definitely stop worshiping it.


Edited by usulpsychonaut (09/21/16 05:51 AM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #23664154 - 09/21/16 05:35 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

you are worshipping it. instead of seeing things as they truly are, small events, that you and others blow up to make seem like bigger and more frequent, and more outlandish stories then what is actually there -- the same usually dumb things people do to one another -- and making it out to be the potential end to humanity as we know it.

that's silly. you think the holocaust didn't happen, that it was like all project blue beam of something crazy, like it's a hologram, or like it was all just alternate history made up by historians, and people's experiences, they are just making that stuff up too, coordinated with their handlers, or something...it's...insane. see, this is what happens when people blow up things out of proportion...see, that's the conspiracy...to convince people like you some direly evil thing is going on, when it isn't. that's on you bro.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #23664184 - 09/21/16 06:02 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

OMFG what's with all this racism, misogyny, n shit. THAT is part OF the evil. the 'white race' bla bla bla. the 'Jews'

The only true thing been said last so many posts is that the pharma/shrink industry is corrupt

Yes it is based on false myths which bleed out of false myths about race, and misogyny

Sometimes people BOTH get some truth but then carry on in ignorance nevertheless. A very sadly funny comment I read yesterday went like this: 'I am aware that propaganda is most effective when it is repeated over and over'

TRUE

but then this dimwit adds: 'that is what the conspiracy theorists did against the official info'

IE he has totally missed the point that it is the other way round!


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma] * 1
    #23664208 - 09/21/16 06:26 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

No, the G.O.D. feeds on the souls of Christians and Muslims, Jews were genetically designed to serve it. It has no power over me as I stand with Satan.

The Holocaust is impossible. Every detail is scientifically/logically unsound.



The lie never debunks the revision, it is enforced by The Truth Is No Defence rulings and the heresy laws. This is still ON TOPIC as The Holocaust is yet another false Jewish religion. A statement is made that Holocaust revision is Anti-Semi-tism and that is the extent of the argument. All the source material is total bunk. Millions of human bodies simply don't burn in pits and disappear without a trace using women and children as kindling. As for eyewitnesses this not an isolated case.

There is endless evidence of fucked up establishment concepts and indoctrination that exist and Judaism is the source of it all. Its occult. The effect of Jewish magicians fanatically putting curses on gentiles. Check the bible, genocide is a Jewish trade. May your grin turn to blood kind of stuff.

Personally, I don't do black magic.


Edited by usulpsychonaut (09/21/16 06:34 AM)


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #23664242 - 09/21/16 06:58 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

oh you are one of those Joy Of Satan peeps. well, i respect your decision to believe in the endless line of conspiracies of the new world order.


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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #23664285 - 09/21/16 07:28 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The holocaust is very well documented (the nazis were germans afterall) and denying it just makes you look stupid.

Also this whole discussion is off topic


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
    #23665229 - 09/21/16 02:24 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

let us try and bring it round to including the OP: it is good to question. It is VITAL.

I have not gone into this whole Holocaust revisionist thing (though have read bits about it over the years) cause of lack of time to really study it

Asking questions must involve being aware of a bigger picture.

Take religion. it is handy to know there is no historical evidence a Jesus of Nazareth even existed :eek:

Take the Holocaust subject. it is handy to know the PREVIOUSLY to the so-called '6 MILLION' count of supposed Holocaust deaths, Jews have used that claim in previous so-called holocausts

Now, just because it may very well not have been 6 million does NOT mean that Jews were not persecuted and murdered en mass in Nazi Germany etc

I have seen people who are Holocaust deniers start making out Hitler was a lovely person...? But it wasn't only Jews he was wanting to get rid of, but also the 'mentally ill' and disabled, and gay people etc.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: zzripz]
    #23665925 - 09/21/16 06:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Its one thing to ask questions it's another thing to make the answers up.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23666237 - 09/21/16 08:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Seriously? There is no white race, there is only one human race with superficial variations. Very pale and very dark people are extremes and differences do not go far beyond topical differences and genetic differences in the preponderance of genetic diseases due to a lack of diversity in the gene pool.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
    #23666282 - 09/21/16 08:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

howsyournaggerdoin said:
The holocaust is very well documented (the nazis were germans afterall) and denying it just makes you look stupid.

Also this whole discussion is off topic




Not just look stupid, it actually proves any promulgator is stupid, but much worse than that. Satan is called "the father of lies" and anyone who denies the Holocaust has an evil agenda. This is a manner of hate and it attracts psychotics with acute paranoid features. I've known several Holocaust survivors. The last one I met had a big portfolio book from when she was invited to the Nuremberg Trials. She had the experience of having been whipped by Dr. Josef Mengale with his riding crop because she was jumping from train car to car to demonstrate her spryness. My parents' dry cleaner Max had numbers on his arm when I was growing up. I tried to help a speaker at a middle school who had a panic attack on stage while attempting to educate kids about the Holocaust. Holocaust deniers have the bizarre notion that if the Holocaust can be falsely debunked, and thence forgotten, it an then occur again! Fucking sickos all, and unfortunately other weak-minded and otherwise mentally deficient humanoids who are so miserable they jump on this miserable bandwagon just to belong with other losers in a folie à plusieurs ("madness of many").


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23666843 - 09/21/16 11:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Seriously? There is no white race




That isn't something for a Jew to decide. If white people want to feel solidarity on the basis of our shared ethnicity that's got nothing to do with you at all.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23666846 - 09/21/16 11:54 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
She had the experience of having been whipped by Dr. Josef Mengale with his riding crop because she was jumping from train car to car to demonstrate her spryness.




Isn't it funny how every Holocaust survivor claims to have personally met and been abused by Mengele? That was one of the things that started to make me suspicious about the whole thing.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: pineninja]
    #23666857 - 09/21/16 11:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
Its one thing to ask questions it's another thing to make the answers up.




The Holocaust religion is another religion, invented by the same people that invented the other sick ones, and for the same purpose.

Questioning it, like any religion, is tantamount to heresy. Anyone who questions it, no matter how innocently, is seen as fair game for all manner of abuse.

That's how you know it's a religion and not truth.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: viktor]
    #23666888 - 09/22/16 12:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

In the absence of truth making shit up also creates "religion" so what's your point. Like I said it's not the questions that are the problem it's the insertion of false truths no matter what they are or who represents them.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: viktor]
    #23666896 - 09/22/16 12:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The holy bible is the word of God.  Notice it is timeless, written 2000 years ago it is still relevant today.  isnt that amazing?

its not called the holy quran.  lol and whoever believes in that shit needs seriously their head examined.



Also God loves the Jew.  They are his elect and his chosen.  And despite how many people want to destroy Israel, God will give Israel an everlasting name.  so in other words it's not happening.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Zombi3] * 2
    #23666966 - 09/22/16 01:12 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I always see Christian people in the same boat as UFO believers, conspiracy theorists ect ect. as naive people who want to believe in something because they wish it were true and want it to be true so they can feel like they have a special relationship to the universe or 9/11 or UFO's.  Like they have a secret knowledge as to the true nature of something.  The way I see it, people use religion as a placebo effect to feel better about the fact they're going to die.  They use it to help make sense of a chaotic and trendlessly fluctuating universe.  They use it as a coping mechanism to stay positive in the face of hopeless and painful situations. 

I am not a religious person by any means, like I said 95% of religions are for naive dumb people with really broken bullshit detectors who like to be spoon fed answers which make sense of the trendlessly fluctuating world we live in instead of critically thinking.

I have never been a religious person as to me they are plain as the nose on your face obvious social, political and spiritual institutions designed to exploit the human desire for a spiritual connection to the universe and other people.  Exploiting them by taking advantage of peoples spiritual hunger for organizing a class structure in any state or government which is to benefit the state or government.  I see most religions as tools for organizing cultures and people to not ask tough questions, to blindly follow authority and get in line and do what your told.  I think most religions are apart of one of the greatest scams in the history of humanity.  Opium for the masses.

Since I hold such strong beliefs about religion and how christians basically believe that god created his son inside the whom of a virgin (impossible) had him die on the cross for my sins, rise to life after being dead for 3 days then ascending to heaven for all of eternity (impossible.)  Who continues to hold the dying on the cross thing over my head forever in the expectation that I'll let god or jesus extort me into following the rules of the particular institution because it allows the people at the top to keep making money, keep trouble makers in line and not have people asking questions about the core beliefs, values and ideology of the institution.

For me personally spirituality is something I struggle with every day and I have not gotten very far with it.  It's very hard for me to define it because I don't really understand it.  The only way I can describe it is the awareness of my own awareness and the universe is aware of my awareness of it.  That's as far as I've gotten.  I don't have time to help prop up 2,000 year old religious institutions and help run their scams on a vulnerable and confused public for all of eternity.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: viktor]
    #23667071 - 09/22/16 03:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Seriously? There is no white race




That isn't something for a Jew to decide. If white people want to feel solidarity on the basis of our shared ethnicity that's got nothing to do with you at all.



actually it's got to do with him. you're just making assumptions if you presume he isn't even white, i mean, do you know he's not white himself?

that's just first of all, second of all, race is literally an invented concept. noteworthy for being abused by many social orders as an excuse to fight with other people, just simply due to being "heretics" or "inferior".

all based on the LIE that there are different races within the HUMAN RACE. RACE, simply another word for KIND, as in SUBGROUP.

but lets forget all that, and preach about solidarity...against...the Jew. :rolleyes:


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #23667110 - 09/22/16 03:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:


Since I hold such strong beliefs about religion and how christians basically believe that god created his son inside the whom of a virgin (impossible) had him die on the cross for my sins, rise to life after being dead for 3 days then ascending to heaven for all of eternity (impossible.).





First, Jesus WAS born to a virgin.  He was God in human flesh.  and Jesus was perfect, he needed to come in untainted and untouched by sin.

God sent Jesus here as a gift, so that those who believe in him will have everlasting life.  he came here to die on our behalf, to pay our sin debt in full because God knows no man is perfect.  And there is no one else who can or even would account for our mistakes.  If God didn't send Jesus, that leaves just us.  Personally I dont want to account for anything I've done, and my answer will be that my acceptance wont be because I deserve it (because I dont) but because he PROMISED.

I always thought that if I treated people well and I did good things for others that should suffice in Gods eyes, but I was wrong.  It does not matter the good works you do or how well you treat others. 

The fact is that rejecting Gods sacrifice of the death of his only begotten son is a slap in his fucking face.  The gracious thing to do would be to accept his gift and say thank you.  And logically what is there to lose by believing this?  Nothing.  If it turns out to not be true then you are out nothing.  you die still having lived a good life.  But If it IS true, well then it is the most important thing in this life.  There is nothing else more important than this.  I hate people who hate God.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles]
    #23667140 - 09/22/16 04:16 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

depends what you mean by God. you know that he has a name, right? Yahweh.

or if you don't believe that...that Jesus believed in Him should be enough to convince you.

you know of the Holy Bread, the Supersubstantial, or Spiritual Bread? that is from where? from Jesus, or from the Father, or is it the Holy Spirit?

i know you're no ancient proto-Jewish Baal worshipper. so you must believe in Yahweh, or else must believe in a God higher than Yahweh, but thing is Jesus didn't believe that himself. he thought he was Son of the God Yahweh...not another.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23667146 - 09/22/16 04:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

yes, Yahweh.  Glad we're on the same page.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles]
    #23667157 - 09/22/16 04:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

right.

Ok. but you realize that the proto-Jewish cults, pagans, they worshipped Baal, and other gods, right? they were pantheistic.

you realize that Yahweh was just a name given to a particular god, which they proclaimed the Most High (El), and the name YHWH was given because sit amounted to a short-forming of the phrase "Shasu of YHW" from Egyptian tablet inscriptions? an approximate meaning derived is "wind blows". you know why that is? because Yahvh is an aniconic re-labelling of an old Sumerian God (which the Egyptian "Walking People of Yah" is derived from) Enlil, the very same "Storm-God" who controls the Shroomery under the guise of an Administrator named Ythan. see the connections?

true story.



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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23667166 - 09/22/16 04:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

thats all real nice and everything but I dont understand the point is or message you're trying to convey.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles]
    #23667185 - 09/22/16 05:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

well, there is alot of disagreement within even the Christian side of things about what is really going on...i'm sure you've heard of the Gnostics.

anyway, even in this modern day, still, there is disagreement of whether Jesus is a literal embodiment of God, or is more like someone "anointed", meaning that he has the power of God given to him by God...see, my point is that i'm wondering what you believe, in earnest. i want to know if you believe in Jesus more than you do Yahweh. :eek:

i mean Jesus, AKA The Light-Bearer, AKA Lucifer, AKA Yeshua; the Ain Soph Aur.

do you believe Jesus is as he's portrayed, or do you side with the Jewish Rabbi's and say Jesus isn't who he says he is?

i think it's fair to say, it's a personal choice what you believe, but what you believe could get you closer to either a former planet God, or one actually Nameless, and thus, closer to the Infinite Light of the manifestation of the Logos, Shabd, or Word.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23667191 - 09/22/16 05:16 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I believe Jesus is God, and as so existed long before coming to earth taking human form.  When he's coming back is what I'm more concerned about.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles]
    #23667193 - 09/22/16 05:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

well, i'm just making sure that you're not confusing YHVH with Jesus, and vice versa.

and the eschatology is alllll undecided upon still, as well.

personally, i realize that everything returns to fire, but that doesn't mean anything unless you think about it spiritually.  :justdontknow: and i know that for a fact, Hell is unrealized. no one knows how this actually works, it's all guesses.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: pineninja]
    #23667786 - 09/22/16 11:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

pineninja said:
Its one thing to ask questions it's another thing to make the answers up.




It is one thing criticizing what someone has said; it's another thing to put your money where your mouth is and explain the position you are defending?


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles]
    #23668187 - 09/22/16 01:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
I believe Jesus is God, and as so existed long before coming to earth taking human form.  When he's coming back is what I'm more concerned about.




Sprinkles, check this out...

Revelation 12 "Sign in the Heavens" occurs next year. <><


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles]
    #23668246 - 09/22/16 02:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

First, Jesus WAS born to a virgin.  He was God in human flesh.  and Jesus was perfect, he needed to come in untainted and untouched by sin.




First, you are a literalist. You believe absurd stories and want others to do too.


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: zzripz]
    #23668295 - 09/22/16 02:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Why is it absurd when talking about God? Are you a materialist?


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles]
    #23669412 - 09/22/16 08:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:


Since I hold such strong beliefs about religion and how christians basically believe that god created his son inside the whom of a virgin (impossible) had him die on the cross for my sins, rise to life after being dead for 3 days then ascending to heaven for all of eternity (impossible.).





First, Jesus WAS born to a virgin.  He was God in human flesh.  and Jesus was perfect, he needed to come in untainted and untouched by sin.




Being born to a virgin is impossible, being a perfect human being is impossible.  Christians usually bullshit their way through this by saying this is a metaphore or something but to be honest to me personally it just smells like straight bullshit that naive people latch onto because it makes them more comfortable to believe in something.  Even if that something makes no sense and defies physics, logic and basic common sense.  Admitting you don't know is one of the hardest things a person can do.  I'm brave enough to admit I don't know because many of the questions religions seek to answer are unknowable and to have a belief based on something unknowable is either arrogant or desperate.


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: usulpsychonaut]
    #23669902 - 09/23/16 12:53 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

usulpsychonaut said:
That happens, here is another example of a Jew telling the truth.

This is all completely relevant to the O.P. Just don't submit to the Galactic Obliteration Device. Your soul will just become food.

What hate? Where?





If you actually read those articles, they are pretty ridiculous. The one about Jesus being a hypocrite for instance, nearly anyone who has studied the Bible could easily refute. The fact that he called his mother Woman? Oh how horrible, crucify him!

You can't nitpick the behavior of a supposed enlightened being that way, or at the very least there are other ways to look at the scripture passages they list.

As for the New Jerusalem, demiurge, borg stuff, that is actually interesting to me because I have always been interested in the gnostic idea of a demiurge but they offer no proof its just their speculation and not particularly well thought out (many of their arguments could easily be challenged). When it comes to spirituality, there is no one truth but a myriad of different perspectives, yet they act as though they are preaching the one truth. Big red flag.


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The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


Edited by Peyote Road (09/23/16 01:02 AM)


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #23669904 - 09/23/16 12:54 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
Quote:

sprinkles said:
Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:


Since I hold such strong beliefs about religion and how christians basically believe that god created his son inside the whom of a virgin (impossible) had him die on the cross for my sins, rise to life after being dead for 3 days then ascending to heaven for all of eternity (impossible.).





First, Jesus WAS born to a virgin.  He was God in human flesh.  and Jesus was perfect, he needed to come in untainted and untouched by sin.




Being born to a virgin is impossible, being a perfect human being is impossible.  Christians usually bullshit their way through this by saying this is a metaphore or something but to be honest to me personally it just smells like straight bullshit that naive people latch onto because it makes them more comfortable to believe in something.  Even if that something makes no sense and defies physics, logic and basic common sense.  Admitting you don't know is one of the hardest things a person can do.  I'm brave enough to admit I don't know because many of the questions religions seek to answer are unknowable and to have a belief based on something unknowable is either arrogant or desperate.




Doesn't that depend on your definition of perfect? Meher baba claimed to be perfect.

And who are you to say what is possible and impossible? I'm not saying you have to believe Jesus was born of a virgin, I personally think it was either a mistranslation or mythological story using a physical metaphor to highlight a spiritually significant event. For example there are stories about supernatural events surrounding Buddhas birth also and Jesus is not the only mythological figure conceived other than by normal means.

But why is it so absurd? Are all supernatural phenomena impossible? How do you decide what is and what is not possible?

According to great sages like Ramana Maharshi, not only are such so called miracles possible they arent even any more miraculous than the process of being born naturally. We just don't see natural births as miraculous because we have grown accustom to them.


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


Edited by Peyote Road (09/23/16 01:18 AM)


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: sprinkles]
    #23669931 - 09/23/16 01:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

sprinkles said:

I believe Jesus is God




Sun gods are the most common deity in all of human history.

Christ was a sun god. It's why Jesus often is shown with a halo or a sun burst.

Christ, the light of the world. Who rose from the darkness.



God said, "Let light shine out of darkness" (2 Corinthians 4:6)

Christ's birthday, December 25th is based in ancient astrology.


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OfflinePeyote Road
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #23669936 - 09/23/16 01:39 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

sprinkles said:

I believe Jesus is God




Sun gods are the most common deity in all of human history.

Christ was a sun god. It's why Jesus often is shown with a halo or a sun burst.

Christ, the light of the world. Who rose from the darkness.



God said, "Let light shine out of darkness" (2 Corinthians 4:6)

Christ's birthday, December 25th is based in ancient astrology.




And the sun rises and sets (dies and res-erects).


--------------------
The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Peyote Road]
    #23669957 - 09/23/16 02:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

So many of the story themes in the Bible reflect the signs of the Zodiac.

Fish (Pisces), water/baptism (Aquarius), virgin (Virgo), and so on . . .


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #23670052 - 09/23/16 04:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Aiko Aiko said:
Why is it absurd when talking about God? Are you a materialist?




what do you mean by the terms you use, by 'God', and 'materialism'?


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #23670067 - 09/23/16 04:53 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
So many of the story themes in the Bible reflect the signs of the Zodiac.

Fish (Pisces), water/baptism (Aquarius), virgin (Virgo), and so on . . .




EXACTLY!!! So why cannot that be understood logically then?

Why then do people try and actually literally believe the stories that have been embellished from astronomical and astrological interpretations and made into mythology?

AND also at a shroomery forum--all about magic mushrooms-- be ignore-ant about the ancient interpretation of psychoactive mushrooms and how they fit into theor solar mythological interpretations of the sun, planets and star systems? For example psychoactive fungi personified as 'Christ descending and becoming flesh', etc.

They have the internet now. The swiftest huge global info source. There is no excuse not to be onto this.

But no they would sooner invest all their trust in some old Book from the past and read it literally...? :huxleyfacepalm:


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: zzripz]
    #23670373 - 09/23/16 08:28 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

God = Omnipotent, Omniscient, Omnipresent, eternal spiritual being.

Materialist = Believing that all there is is the material world. Denying a supernatural, or spiritual reality.


Genesis 1:14

14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years...

The English word here for seasons is actually translated from the Hebrew word moedim. It means Gods appointed times. There are prophecies that are described in the constellations like the one I posted. You can use sw like stellarium and actually see some of the celestial events as recorded in the bible like what the Magi saw at Christs conception and birth. Bethlehem Star

The Babylonians and Assyrians corrupted the interpretation of Yah's beautiful creation in the stars. Astrology makes the stars about fortune telling and "me." When their original purpose was for the Creator of the Universe to communicate important "seasons" and events for His glory, not ours.

How can you look at the Revelation 12 sign which was written in AD 95 and say it is anything other than divine order? Here it is again...

"Now a great sign appeared in heaven:
a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet,
and on her head a garland of twelve stars.
Then being with child, she cried out in labor and in pain to give birth..."

Now look at the actual alignment happening next year. Every single aspect of that vision is occurring as written 1900+ years ago. This alignment has never been seen for at least 7000 years! it was not present at the time when Revelation was written. Is this some gigantic coincidence? The real kicker for me is the that Jupiter, which is the King planet (think King of Kings), also known as the planet of the Messiah by the Jews is in the "womb" of Virgo for the exact time of human gestation, 42 weeks via retrograde motion which is what the scripture describes. So yes, I take much of the bible literally as is apparent by what looked at first to be allegorical in this scripture coming into literal fulfillment. Basically it is a picture of true Israel; not the physical nation of, but of spiritual Israel, those who are in Christ, giving birth to the Messiah. Then the next verses show the war between Satan and Christ or the Church. Christ came the first time as the suffering servant. He is about to come again as the conquering Lion and King of Kings..There is much more to what is actually going on in this vision and chapter, but I'll save you the details. 

You say that Christianity is based on astrology, I say that is wrong. I say those cultures stole and corrupted Gods Gospel in the heavens which was planned out from the beginning.

There isn't much time left, and remember, the gift of salvation is available to all, every single person on earth! All you have to do is receive this free gift of grace. This sign most likely represents the start of the Great Tribulation. Things are going to get really bumpy over the course of the next few years.

How rare is the Revelation 12 "Great Sign in the Heavens"?


Edited by Aiko Aiko (09/23/16 08:51 AM)


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Aiko Aiko]
    #23670569 - 09/23/16 09:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

...i have a feeling it would be a waste of my effort to try and get through to you.


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Offlinezzripz
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: zzripz] * 1
    #23670605 - 09/23/16 10:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I will however speak to whoever is interested in what I have to say: it is not usually understood by theist or atheist alike that the mythos that has controlled us nearly globally for millennia is solar mythology, and this mythology suppressed and subverted lunar based mythos which was central to Goddess mythology

See, the luminary, the moon, symbolized the dynamic play of darkness and light, and how light is rather birthed from darkness rather than the other way round. IE you have the Dark Moon and then happens the slither of light of the New Moon which then waxes and then wanes and this cyclic process was the metaphor for nature, including our own natures

But when solar mythos is brought about and imposed on everyone, and the very star systems etc are interpreted in a solar-dominant way is when things become dualistic, because it can be seen that with the sun it is light which predominates. So you thus get the stories about how the 'good pure light/'God' will banish the 'bad impure darkness/'Satan/Devil'. There we have the duality of light and dark. And this myth goes deep into our psyche which is what is intended for it to do. The toxic mythmakers who pushed these concepts are a warrior mindset who are all about divide and control, because their very mode of operation is dualistic! Divide light from dark and have one the superior and the other inferior, etc etc etc

Of course there are different interpretations of the solar mythos also. On one side you have the 'God-ists' who believe in the 'all good pure light spirit/God' and on the other side the Luciferians/Satanists who believe the 'light' is Lucifer who came to help them--the ones who are initiated in this mythos--become 'gods'.


Edited by zzripz (09/23/16 10:21 AM)


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InvisibleCookieCrumbsM
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #23670672 - 09/23/16 10:39 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
I always see Christian people in the same boat as UFO believers, conspiracy theorists ect ect. as naive people who want to believe in something because they wish it were true and want it to be true so they can feel like they have a special relationship to the universe or 9/11 or UFO's. 




I personally don't think that people who don't believe in anything, or the possibility of many things that can't yet be proven, simply because they don't know what to believe are much better.


My theory is: every religion is right and every religion is wrong. The more religions you study the more you notice reoccurring themes. The more you dig into these themes the bigger sense of legitimacy you get. Among these the most common theme and the most accepted is don't be a piece of shit lazy asshole.

I make it a point to poke holes into a religion, not to try to tear it down completely. I try to help people see where they are believing just to believe and where they are believing something legitimate and worth believing. The religion is not wrong. Parts of it perpetuated by those in power or those seeking power, or simply don't understand what they are dealing with, are what is wrong.


I believe in reincarnation because science teaches us that nothing is every really destroyed. NOTHING in our universe is ever destroyed. In which case I can believe that Jesus lived and died and was resurrected days later. Reincarnated days later. And will be here again. That is what the universe does. But that requires the belief of a soul. Also a universal theme in religion. I could go on and on about that one, but again, if nothing is ever destroyed why would we be? Who is to say that as we rot and our chemical make up breaks up between the earth and the worms that there is not a level in awareness in that?

Are you to say that alternate awareness is not the afterlife, underworld, nirvana, or heaven?

It's not a belief with backing in words. Its a belief backed by science and the reality of how the universe works (from what we currently understand) intense research and personal experience. Along with the general acceptance that we can't know everything and likely won't be able to prove everything. If you don't believe what you can reason out under terms of logic then you won't believe anything and I feel bad for you.


--------------------
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: viktor] * 1
    #23674095 - 09/24/16 02:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

viktor said:
Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
Seriously? There is no white race




That isn't something for a Jew to decide. If white people want to feel solidarity on the basis of our shared ethnicity that's got nothing to do with you at all.




WHAT "shared ethnicity?" What does that even mean? Northern European? That too is diverse. Ideology? Territoriality? Blue eyes vs. brown eyes? There is no Jewish race either. That's Nazi ideology, and a lie. I am of eastern European descent, Roumanian and probably German, light skinned, blonde and blue-eyed in appearance (though hair darkened with age). I have no Semitic heritage or genetics, but somewhere sometime someone converted to some form of Judaism. Keep your racist accusatory personalisms to yourself and mind whatever manners you can still feign viktor.

You do not belong on this forum with your foul bigotry. White is a meaningless term except for white supremacists, who are exactly the opposite of anything supreme except supreme ignorance and hate! :lol: The planet is moving from the extremes of Icelandic white and Aboriginal black to a universal tan, probably a good thing, the homogenization of the appearance of the Human race. Maybe you just have a blonde/blue-eyes or pale skin fetish. :fonda:

Psychologically, feelings of superiority is obviously and transparently over-compensation for profound feelings of inferiority. Spiritual life is characterized by humility not hubris in every tradition and for equally obvious reasons (except to the hateful and spiritually bereft). Ego-inflation always results in a profound deflation, whether in an individual or a nation (like Nazi-Germany). The Myth of Icarus illustrated this centuries ago. Racists are epitomized by the half-toothless Klansman with a 4th grade education calling a Harvard-educated, one-time head of the Harvard Law Review, and Constitutional scholar a N****r! :rofl2:  It's a damn good thing that "der führer" blew his twisted brains out before those German Jewish physicists Einstein and Oppenheimer could nuke all those hate-possessed German white beer-brewers and butchers back to the middle ages! :rofl:


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γνῶθι σαὐτόν - Gnothi Seauton - Know Thyself


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma]
    #23675944 - 09/25/16 06:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

akira_akuma said:
you're just making assumptions
all based on the LIE that there are different races within the HUMAN RACE. RACE, simply another word for KIND, as in SUBGROUP.

but lets forget all that, and preach about solidarity...against...the Jew. :rolleyes:




Quote:

akira_akuma said:
do you believe Jesus is as he's portrayed, or do you side with the Jewish Rabbi's and say Jesus isn't who he says he is?





You contradict yourself on the same page - what a maroon!


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23675948 - 09/25/16 06:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

MarkostheGnostic said:
You do not belong on this forum with your foul bigotry. White is a meaningless term except for white supremacists, who are exactly the opposite of anything supreme except supreme ignorance and hate!rman white beer-brewers and butchers back to the middle ages! :rofl:




Stick your pomposity up your arse. You are the single worst racist on this forum. Always going on about "aryan arrogance" and making excuses for the disgusting culture of male infant genital mutilation and hatred of homosexuals, animals and women that your beloved Abraham brought the world.

I have said nothing bigoted other than that a Jew has no place deciding for other people who they may or may not feel solidarity with. And you don't. If I want to feel solidarity with other people on the basis of a shared ethnicity I will.

You have no right to lecture me on morality, you parasitic fraud.


--------------------
"They consider me insane but I know that I am a hero living under the eyes of the gods."


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: viktor]
    #23676019 - 09/25/16 07:51 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

LOL, yeah, he's making excuses for them, he's practically endorsing those practices! so are tons and tons of Aryans!

:doh:


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: viktor]
    #23677509 - 09/25/16 05:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Nasty, nasty viktor. "Stick and stones..." Name-calling is not any endorsement for ANY credibility on your part. You are projecting all manner of things onto someone you know nothing about, like my "beloved Abraham," "aryan ignorance" (I never wrote that, although in your case it may apply) and some archaic cultic prohibitions. Racist? :rofl2: I've got Germans and Nigerians in my family. Take your best shot. :lol: In Nigeria I often heard the expression, "Your head is not correct," and indeed that absolutely applies to you in this projection you have in your head, 'cause it doesn't apply to me. Parasite? Hmmm. No again. I'm more characterized by symbiotic relationships by those who actually know me. Fraud? Wrong again. You're batting zero vik. I do not deceive others or misinterpret myself. Morality? I'm confident that my moral development surpasses whatever puerile level you're stuck at. Your failed attempt to insult me speaks for itself morally in terms of vindictive verbal invectives. You should cease and desist while you only appear as a ranting adolescent instead of something less forgivable. Obviously I couldn't care less who you feel solidarity with. In fact, I think you might be Jewish yourself. Your words remind me of that Jewish Neo-Nazi Daniel Burroughs in the 60s - a self-loathing Jew who killed himself when he was outed by a journalist. Maybe you even belong to an Ultra-Orthodox Chabad or something. Yeah, that's the ticket. :rofl:


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: zzripz]
    #23692814 - 09/30/16 01:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zzripz said:
. . . it is not usually understood by theist or atheist alike that the mythos that has controlled us nearly globally for millennia is solar mythology, and this mythology suppressed and subverted lunar based mythos which was central to Goddess mythology




Ask anyone why the birthday of the Son of God is celebrated on December 25th


(crickets)


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202] * 1
    #23692865 - 09/30/16 02:08 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

The sun reaches it's lowest point at the winter (December) solstice on about 21st December. At this time the Sun is at RA = 23.5 degrees. Northern hemisphere observers receive the minimum amount of sunlight at this time as the Sun is lowest in the sky at noon and is above the horizon for the shortest time.



In other words it's the celebration of the sun resurrecting from being at it's lowest point in the sky in the year. Supposedly, back in the day, people use to trip out because they worshiped the sun as their god that gives them crops and such.

Egyptians worshiped the sun god RA (right ascension)



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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23693704 - 09/30/16 10:39 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Because the resurrection has been subverted.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: yeah] * 1
    #23693718 - 09/30/16 10:46 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

God forgive us, we knew not what we did. :tearchalice:


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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: akira_akuma] * 2
    #23695265 - 09/30/16 08:11 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

If you've never seriously questioned your religious views then you're kinda just following the crowd in coming to terms with feeling anxious about dying.


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OfflineLucisM
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Re: Seriously questioning my religious views [Re: Cognitive_Shift]
    #23695634 - 09/30/16 09:56 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Cognitive_Shift said:
If you've never seriously questioned your religious views then you're kinda just following the crowd in coming to terms with feeling anxious about dying.





I agree, I don't understand how someone can say they're a follower of any belief, if they were raised in it, and didn't approach it of their own accord.

This seems hazardous.


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