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Invisibleegoproctor
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23618755 - 09/06/16 03:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You can look up Electric Universe Theory 
or Thunderbolts Project on Facebook and interact with thousands of people, including practicing scientists, that can give you all the information you want on the topic in much more detail than I am capable of at the moment.

Or there is the web page, https://amicrowavedplanet.com/ has some good info.

These ideas are not secret, they just are not popular.  There is a difference. It isn't some dark conspiracy as much as it is normal profiteering.

Look at Bayer and how they sold millions dollars of AIDS infected drugs to countries outside the USA in the 80's purely to make a profit.  They knew it was wrong, and yet the did it anyway, because there was so much money involved.  http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2006/08/05/bayer-sells-aids-infected-drug-banned-in-us-in-europe-asia.aspx

Physics is in the same boat.  Heads of Lockheed Martin and Ratheon and many other major weapons manufacturers have gotten behind Plasma cosmology and EU physics, but as many scientists and advocates of these new paradigms point out, it is a matter of economics.  Billions of dollars a year are raised and earned in support of standard model physics.  Countless careers are hinging on the continued support of these ideas, textbook writers, tenured professors, research labs like LIGO and groups that build super expensive dark matter detectors that detect nothing need these ideas to remain in place to keep their jobs and the money flowing in.  Grants are based on how fast they can be completed, what they will find, and whether or not they support the established paradigm.  It is all about keeping the money flow constant, regardless of if the science is good at this point.  That is a huge factor in why science hasn't changed, even though the research is publicly available and has been published in many of the most prestigious journals over the last 50 years and has been the center of several Nobel Prizes.  Ego and Greed, Hubris and Pride, not evil conspiracy.  That is what it breaks down to.


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"-" egoproctor

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23618793 - 09/06/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I appreciate the info, but you don't need to lecture me.  And I am not certain of anything.  I took issue with your history of Tesla, which I still feel is in error as I have studied him very intensively.  But that is neither here nor there.  As I said in a previous post, I also take issue with the standard model.  I'm not trying to say you're automatically full of shit.  As a matter of fact, I subscribe to Bohmian mechanics, which is far from mainstream.  Therefore, while I disagree with some of the things you've said, you're preaching to the choir a bit.  I do intend to look into some of the content you've provided, so I thank you for that.

And I have no doubt that institutional science is as corrupt as everything else.


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Offlinenothing exists
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23618794 - 09/06/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

you are doing good work, brother, but waste not on a no it all.


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Invisibleegoproctor
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23618954 - 09/06/16 04:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

It is all good man.  I just started a job at Longhorn washing dishes 30+ hours a week near a major mall.  I am the only dishwasher with very little help catching the dishes out the other side of the belt fed machine.  I work friday night, satruday and sunday lunch and night, no break, and my hands are so fucked up I can barely type much less play guitar and my entire body is in pain. 

my knuckles feel arthritic, and my skin is raw and smooth and burning.  So, I am a bit out of sorts.

On Telsa, yes he did do some weird shit.  He got much of his ideas from John Keely.  Not everything worked, but people like Westinghouse and Edison also bankrolled him to complete their projects, not his own.  By the time he was ready to work on his own projects he was destitute and homeless, with a bit of work to his name, but Marconi created transverse radio to get around the Tesla patents. 

I think there is a lot of confusing info about Tesla, and you are probably right, he was an amazing guy, but he wasn't the end all be all.  He was the pinnacle of a movement, and human.  He was not the creator of much of anything directly, just an implementor and an experimentalist.  Edison and Westinghouse had far more failures to their names per product than I think Tesla did, and if not for Tesla their work would have not seen the light of day.


Other interesting cats are Daniel Winter and Phi based phase conjugate physics.  he is cracked a bit. but his work was the basis for groups like HearthMath Institute.  amazing shit he has. 

And Dale Pond, if you can get around the theosophical stuff, amazing work.


Dewey B Larson had some amazing work.  Not all correct, but in 2002 a new group started and continued his work correcting some of his issues.

Charles W Lucas has some really cool stuff on the electrodynamic forces of the universe.  he is able to show that there are no neutrons in atoms.

Pari Spolter has some interesting work on the Sun.

it is just not publishable in the mainstream corporatized journals.


and a really cool lady, Eileen Day McKusick, Tuning the Human Biofield, has empirical evidence proving a bioplaska energyfield around the body.  She has also determined the placement of memories as standing waves in the energy field as testable and repeatable patterns around the body based on age and type of memory.  It is really amazing work. 

enjoy, and thanks for putting up with me.  Now for more lotion on my hands, and its not to find a happy ending.


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"-" egoproctor

Edited by egoproctor (09/06/16 04:58 PM)

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Invisibleegoproctor
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: nothing exists]
    #23619142 - 09/06/16 06:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

nothing exists said:
you are doing good work, brother, but waste not on a no it all.





Good thing it is not a private conversation but a public forum for debate and discussion.  there is always room to learn, and sometimes breaking discussions against walls of belief reveals cracks in the defenses of the dogma and opens perspective on concepts from the messenger.

I kept meaning to post this also, Rupert Sheldrake and his talk on his book the Science Delusion, in American called Science Set Free. 
great talk that directly deals with this conversation.

As Andrew Holster points out in his work the Death of Science, there has not been a major discovery in Science since the 60's, all that has been done is technological advancements of existing scientific knowledge. 

It is difficult to explain some of these concepts in short layman terms, and I am not a full master of the mathematics behind the concepts either, so I start with a philosophical perspective, which is where science really began and where its foundation should remain.

My current read is Making Sense by Peter Moddel, an investigation in the nature of consciousness.  It is interesting to compare his work to Hofstadter's GEB, Kahneman's Thinking Fast and Slow, Howard Bloom's The Lucifer Principle, Andrew Smart's Beyond Zero and One, The Master Algorithm, King Warrior Magician Lover, and Campbell and many others.  Following these concepts of human thought into how science has evolved reveals a way to investigate the patterns of group and individual thought.

Perhaps one day I will have a chance to find cohesion in the concepts and produce something of benefit, but until then, just spread the seeds of curiosity to break down the edifices of calcified dogmatism that prevent the evolution and growth of the human mind and spirit. 

Be well man,

I appreciate the support. 

A new video discussing the electricity of life from a friend of mine.  Always cool stuff developing on the horizon and under our noses.


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"-" egoproctor

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23619246 - 09/06/16 06:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I'll check that out. :thumbup:


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23619782 - 09/06/16 09:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Is electricity a form of fire?

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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum] * 1
    #23620045 - 09/06/16 10:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

A couple of years ago I read Richard Rhodes Dark Sun: The Making of the H-Bomb and I enjoyed it. I usually don't read history, but I've always been somewhat obsessed by thermonuclear war. When the Lindon, NJ oil refinery blew up in 1971 and I was in front of my parents' house (drunk and yelling at night to get down before the shockwave hit, I ran inside to tell my parents to get on the floor. I was convinced by the nighttime flash like lightning and the image of lapping flames reflected off low clouds, that NYC had been nuked. Fortunately I was wrong, as NY TV was still being broadcast, and suddenly it was pre-empted by the news flash. I suppose it was a childhood of nuclear cover-up exercises, and Civil Defense drills. Plus, I had written the Atomic Energy Commission and they'd sent me a booklet of nuclear/thermonuclear tests in B&W. I once had a 2X3' poster of the Nagasaki mushroom cloud. Recently we started watching Manhattan, the TV series. Last night one of the scientists on the project came out with some "Psilocybe cubensis mushrooms..." Three of the scientists took them. But the names Psilocybe/Psilocybin/Psilocin were not created until the 1960s by Albert Hofmann. In 1943 the beloved carpophore was Stropharia cubensis (if it was known at all). Anyway, mushrooms and mushroom clouds seem somehow related. I ordered Rhodes' earlier book The Making of the Atomic Bomb because he is a clear writer and I enjoyed his other work. One of my best childhood friend's father worked on the Manhattan Project as an engineer, so I've always had a fear-fascination with the whole Cold war terror and technology. :shrug:

                                                                                                                     
Nuclear Mushroom                  Fist Fulla Mushrooms          Thermonuclear Mushroom


   


Many years ago I had a dream, a nightmare actually, wherein I witnessed a thermonuclear explosion and these words boomed in the dream. It is an archetypal theme that your Native American related about the Fire of the Sun, and the myth of Prometheus having stolen fire which was the possession of the gods in order to help humankind. Prometheus received a dismemberment death as punisment for his theft as you might know, chained to a rock on a mountaintop where an eagle sent by Zeus devoured his liver (the soul or live-r) by day, which would grow back by night, only to be devoured again in endless days of agony. Chiron the Centaur agreed to die for Prometheus to be released but not before Heracles killed the eagle with an arrow. I used this crude drawing as the frontispiece of a dream journal begun on Halloween 1989.


Edited by MarkostheGnostic (09/06/16 10:17 PM)

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Invisibleegoproctor
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: BrendanFlock]
    #23620420 - 09/06/16 11:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

electricity as we observe it in lightning is arc mode plasma, exactly like the arc welders and other devices that create standing electrical discharges.  Fire can be a glow mode plasma, and electricity can cause that as well, it is a lower charge density in the gas that creates a sustained glow, like a fluorescent light bulb or the photosphere of the sun.  But, there is also dark mode plasma, like what can be use to generate X-rays and radio frequencies emitted by electrically charged vacuum tubes that don't create visible light, but do create electromagnetic emissions.

Electricity as a phenomena is the result of the interaction between an electromagnetic field and an electrostatic force.  Or Electromotive force and dielectric force.  When the strength of these fields or forces is varied with each other over time it creates an electrical phenomena.  but magnetics alone is not electricity, and the dielectric (or electrostatic) is not electricity.  Only together do they create a flow of charge.  There are better explanations I am sure.  Yet I have not seen a single coherent and complete understanding published about what electricity actually is, only its effects. 

This might help, A history of the theory of Electricity.  It is a long explanation of the theories of electricity when it was being most heavily researched freely.

Here is an explanation of plasma and its relation to fire and a bit about electricity and ionization. https://www.thunderbolts.info/wp/2011/10/25/essential-guide-to-the-eu-chapter-3/

https://www.plasma-universe.com/Fire_(flame)

but in general, Fire is an oxidizing chemical reaction that produces heat and light, converting matter into another form in the process. 


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"-" egoproctor

Edited by egoproctor (09/07/16 12:27 AM)

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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23621228 - 09/07/16 09:03 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yes Mark, both of those Rhodes books are outstanding.  I confess my interest in nuclear weapons issues and technology as well.  I've been a bit obsessed since grade school.

Synchronistically, I just watched Trinity and Beyond: The Atomic Bomb Movie a month or so ago.  It contains full color, hi-def footage of the major tests, from Trinity all the way through the test ban.  Really fascinating, I'm sure you'd like it.

There is no more consequential issue than this.  As long as these weapons exist, we are under a sword of Damocles.


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OfflineMarkostheGnostic
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23621290 - 09/07/16 09:34 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Yes Mark, both of those Rhodes books are outstanding.  I confess my interest in nuclear weapons issues and technology as well.  I've been a bit obsessed since grade school.

Synchronistically, I just watched Trinity and Beyond: The Atomic Bomb Movie a month or so ago.  It contains full color, hi-def footage of the major tests, from Trinity all the way through the test ban.  Really fascinating, I'm sure you'd like it.

There is no more consequential issue than this.  As long as these weapons exist, we are under a sword of Damocles.





Just saw this. Thanks for the recommendation.  http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/09/donald-trump-super-pac-ad-nuclear


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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: MarkostheGnostic]
    #23621331 - 09/07/16 09:51 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Well he's certainly been stupidly careless and ignorant in his remarks.

This election cycle has been fucking surreal.


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Invisibleegoproctor
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23621653 - 09/07/16 11:19 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I am aware that most people may find this hard to even consider, but nuclear weapons are no longer the greatest threat, and really were always more of a second rate weapon, when compared to the technology that John Keely developed and some reports and more recent tests confirm that Tesla and his contemporaries developed.

John Keely's focus was on sympathetic vibratory physics, discovering the resonant frequencies of practically every kind of solid and building technology that would turn it into dust, and then turn the dust into atoms, and he claimed the atoms in aether. 

http://magneticuniverse.com/discussion/34/universal-laws-never-before-revealed-keelys-secrets

Here is a book that discusses his life and career.  He developed anti-gravity technology and a lot more in the 1870's - 1890's before he finally died.  His work was unlike anything done by other people, although there are a couple of Russians from the same time period that had similar results.  Dale Pond has been able to recreate some of his technology.

Below is a YouTube link to Judy Wood, some of you may know about her.  It is a presentation of her evidence for directed energy weapons being used to take down the world trade center towers.  People may laugh, but her examination of the evidence is very compelling and overwhelmingly in support of the idea.



Further reading and digging I found this article about how the US Navy took over the technology of Marconi and destroyed or absorbed much of the work of other researchers, such as Tesla and Alexanderson and a few others just before and during WWI, and then continued to exert control over what was permissible for public experimentation and research. 
https://borderlandsciences.org/journal/vol/54-5/v54-1/Dollard_on_Bolinas_Wireless_Station.html

It is quite possible that the technological findings of Keely and Tesla and others were developed privately by the military and weapons manufacturing firms.  Nuclear weapons are dangerous, but they are nothing compared to direcdted energy weapons that can essentially atomize specific targets like the twin towers and leave the rest of the city largely untouched. 

Pancaking, Airplane Fuel, and thermite and other explanations just don't make sense when the full range of evidence is examined.  If you have not watched Judy Wood's talk, then it is going to be difficult to examine her points through skeptical retorts who also don't always watch the video or read the books, they just react based on their belief that these technologies do not exist.

I don't not know if it is correct that directed energy weapons were used, but I am fairly confident that the basic foundational technologies for such weapons has been around for over 130 years.


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Invisibleegoproctor
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23621783 - 09/07/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)



Dale Pond from 94 talking about John Keely and Sympathetic Vibratory Physics, Radionics and Vibration Theory

http://svpwiki.com/SVPwiki+Home+Page ; Dale Pond's web page with nearly 40 years of research into the work of John Keely and others, focused on vibration theory.


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"-" egoproctor

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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23621858 - 09/07/16 12:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

DividedQuantum said:
Sioux shaman Lame Deer spoke of the fact that man, through nuclear weapons, had harnessed the fire of the sun -- but was never meant to come by this knowledge because this knowledge was the province of the gods. 

How comfortable are you with man's knowledge?  Do you feel we can go another fifty years without triggering a thermonuclear holocaust?  Is the value of this knowledge proportional to its cost?

Would ignorance be bliss?


Quote:

"The problem which is posed by the release of atomic energy is a problem of the ability of the human race to govern itself without war. There is no permanent method of excising atomic energy from our affairs... It is hard to see how there could be any major war in which one side or another would not eventually make and use atomic bombs."  --Robert Oppenheimer, 1952







excerpted from Sir Basil Harts's "Strategy. Second Revised Edition"

Quote:

Preface:
The Hydrogen bomb is not the answer to the Western peoples' dream of full and final insurance of their security.  It is not a "cure-all" for the dangers that beset them.  While it has increased their striking power it has sharpened their anxiety and deepened their sense of insecurity.  The atomic bomb in 1945 looked to the responsible statesmen of the West an easy ans simple way on assuring a swift and complete victory--and subsequent world peace.  Their thought,Sir Winston Churchill says, was that "to bring the war to an end, to give peace to the world, to lay healing hands upon its tortured peoples by a manifestation of overwhelming power at the cost of a few explosions, seemed after all our toils and perils, a miracle of deliverance."  But the anxious state of the peoples of the free world today is a manifestation that the directing minds failed to think through the problem--of attaining peace through such a victory.
    They did not look beyond the immediate strategic aim of "winning the war" and were content to assume that military victory wouyld assure peace--an assumption contrary to the general experience of history.  The outcome has been the latest of many lessons that pure military strategy needs to be guided by the longer and wider view from the plane of grand strategy".
    In the circumstance of World War II, the pursuit of triumph was foredoomed to turn into tragedy, and futility.  A complete overthrow of Germany's power of resistance was bound to clear the way for Soviet Russia's domination of the Eurasian continent, and for a vast extension of Communist power in ll directions.  It was equally natural that the striking demonstration of atomic weapons with which the war closed should be followed by Russia's development of similar weapons.           
    No peace ever brought so little security and, after eight nerve-wracking years, the production of thermo-nuclear weapons has deepened the "victorious" peoples' sense of insecurity.  But that is not the only effect.
    The H-bomb, even in its trial explosions, has done more than anything else to make it plain that "total war" as a method, and "victory" as a war aim are out of date concepts.
    That has come to be recognized by the cheif exponents of strategic bombing.  Marshall of the R.A.F Sir John Slessor recently declared his belief that "total war as we have known it in the past forty years is a thing of the past...a world war in this day and age would be general suicide and the end of civilisation as we know it."  Marshal of the R.A.F Lord Tedder earlier emphasized the same point as "an accurate, cold statement of the actual possibilities," and said: "A contest using the atomic weapon would be no duel, but rather mutual suicide."
    Less logically he added: "That is scarcelyy a prospect to encourage aggression."  Less logically because a cold-blooded aggressor may cou t on his opponents ntural reluctance to commit suicide in response to a threat that is not clearly fatal.
    Would any responsible Government, when it came to that point, decide to use the H-bomb as an answer to indirect agression, or agression of a local and limited kind?  Would any responsible government take the lead in what the air cheifs themselves warn us would be "suicide"?  So it may be assumed that the H-bomb, would not be used against any menace less certainly and immediately fatal then itself.   
    The trust which statesmen place in such a weapon as a deterrent to aggression would seem to rest on an illusion.  The threat ton use it might likely be taken less seriously in the Kremlin than inn countries on the near side of the Iron Curtain whose peoples are perilously close to Russia and her strategic bombing forces.  The atomic threat, if exploited for their protection, may only suffice to weaken their resolution in resistance.  It's "back-blast" has already been very damaging.
    The H-bomb is more handicap than help to the policy of "containment".  To the extent that it reduces the likelyhood of all-out war, it increases the possiblities of "limited war" pursued by indirect and widespread local aggression.   
  The aggresoor can exploit a choice of techniques, differing in pattern but all designed to make headway while causing hesitancy--about employing counteraction with H-bombs or A-bombs.  For the "containment" of the menace we now become more dependant on "conventional weapons".  That conclusion, however, does not mean that we must fall back on conventional methods.  It should be an incentive to the development of newer ones.
    We have moved into a new era of strategy that is very different to what was assumed by the advocates of air-atomic power--the "revolutionaries" of the past era.  The strategy now being developed by our opponents is inspired by the dual idea of evading and hamstringing superior air power.  Ironically, rthe further we have developed the "massive" effect of the bombing weapon, the more we have helped  the progress of this new guerilla-type strategy.
    Our own strategy should be based on a clear grasp of this concept, and our military policy needs reorientation.  There is scope, and we might effectively develop it, for a counter strategy of corresponding kind.  Here one may remark, in parenthesis, that to wipe out cities with H-bombs would be to destroy our potential "fifth column" assets.
    The common assumption that atomic poewer has cancelled out strategy is ill-founded and misleading.  By carrying destructiveness to a "suicidal" extreme, atomic power is stimulating and accelerating a reversion to the indirect methods that are the essence of strategy--since they endow warfare with intelligent properties that raise it above the brute application of force.  Signs of such a reversion to the "indirect approach" had already become manifest in World War II where strategy played a greater part han in World War I--although grand strategy was missing.  Now the atomic deterrent to direct action on familiar lines is tending to foster a deeper strategic subtlety on the part of aggressors.  It thus becomes all the more important that this development should be matched by a similar understanding of strategical power on our side... 




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InvisibleDividedQuantumM
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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23621992 - 09/07/16 01:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Would any responsible Government, when it came to that point, decide to use the H-bomb as an answer to indirect agression, or agression of a local and limited kind?  Would any responsible government take the lead in what the air cheifs themselves warn us would be "suicide"?




Israel would do it if the wrong cards were on the table.  Their military rallying-cry is "Masada shall never fall again."


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: egoproctor]
    #23622199 - 09/07/16 02:31 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

There is conspiracy theory, and then there's facticity. I am genuinely worried about the facticity of CBR (Chemical, Biological, Radiological) warfare. "Red Mercury," Nazi anti-gravity Bell, exotic matter, Tesla's 'secret' death-ray, whatever. I am also unsettled by 9/11 - by the firefighters who disclosed they saw molten steel at ground and below ground level, days after the event. Jet fuel is kerosene which burns at around 1500° F. while steel melts at close to 5000°F. Of course there are those people who say the jets were holograms, based on the way they entered the buildings, like cartoon characters running through doors leaving the outline of their bodies. I have to draw the line somewhere or I will myself be experiencing a folie à plusieurs ("madness of many").


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23622206 - 09/07/16 02:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

ah, but the hypothetical has played out, and is playing out.  indirect aggression or aggression of a local and limited kind, like dispersed and semi random rocket attacks and other attacks against the public at large with small arms or explosives.  These things happen, and yet the missiles don't fly.  its because attacking terrorists (or guerrillas, or freedom fighters, depending on where you stand) with nuclear weapons would be like swatting flies with a sledgehammer.  It is:

1) Not particularly effective
2) A huge waste of energy
3) Even more likely to result in the destruction of things one would rather leave intact than the destruction of one's target


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23622527 - 09/07/16 04:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I don't mean terrorists, ballsalsa.  I mean that, if there were ever a situation in which a major strategic attack were imminent, Israel might pull the trigger.  I don't think the U.S. or Russia would, but I think Israel is capable of it.  Given history.


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Re: Man's knowledge of the fire of the sun [Re: DividedQuantum]
    #23622537 - 09/07/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

If they thought that their existence as a nation was in immediate jeopardy, probably. though i imagine that some attempt at a conventional decision would be made first if possible.


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