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Offlineshekelstein
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Registered: 09/06/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines
    #23616783 - 09/06/16 01:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3691692/Drug-addicts-Philippines-surrender-authorities-president-Rodrigo-Duterte-urges-citizens-ahead-kill-drug-users-dealers.html

- Philippines president Rodrigo Duterte, dubbed 'The Punisher', has waged a war on drugs throughout the country
- After winning elections in May this year he has urged citizens to kill suspected drug users and dealers
- Police have confirmed killing more than 110 drug suspects since the president came to power
- Communications Office Secretary Martin Andanar said 60,000 drug dependents have surrendered to authorities

How is this a bad thing? I understand the war on drugs is a retarded, but at least these policies are actually detracting some people from using hard drugs like heroin and meth.


--------------------
Done lots of psychedelics. Seen some things.



Edited by shekelstein (09/06/16 01:22 AM)


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein]
    #23616792 - 09/06/16 01:29 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The Duterte Youth are all on board with this. It'll be fine.


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Offlineshekelstein
Psychedelic Master Race

Registered: 09/06/16
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Great Scott]
    #23616801 - 09/06/16 01:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If people with addictions genuinely are deterred from these policies though I think it is at least helping people. I would rather have no war on drugs at all but if you do it you might as well go to full on death squads so that nobody dares to touch any type of drug.


"MANILA — Rayzabell Bongol, an 18-year-old mother and methamphetamine user, was afraid to die in President Rodrigo Duterte’s war on drugs in the Philippines. So she turned herself in to the police. They made her sign a pledge that she would never take illegal drugs again, then sent her home.

Once a week now, she is expected to attend a police-sponsored Zumba dance workout, where she gets a health check and a meal. Mr. Duterte “promised change,” she said at a recent class as three dozen other recovering addicts bopped and swayed to a blaring Latin beat. “As you can see, I am changing.”

Across the Philippines, the killing of some 1,300 drug suspects in the last two months has frightened hundreds of thousands of people like Ms. Bongol into turning themselves in. Officials cite the estimated 687,000 people who have surrendered, which vastly exceeded expectations, as evidence that Mr. Duterte’s deadly campaign is succeeding."


--------------------
Done lots of psychedelics. Seen some things.



Edited by shekelstein (09/06/16 01:39 AM)


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Offlinemy3rdeye
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein] * 1
    #23616806 - 09/06/16 01:39 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You get higher when you fear a death squad. It's like when you move out of your parents house and are free to get high guilt free, you no longer get as high. Paranoia makes your buzz better.


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OfflineLuSiD enthusiast
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: my3rdeye]
    #23616891 - 09/06/16 02:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If you think in ANY way at all that this policy is good op, then you are a fucking retard.

Go live in the phillipines then if you like it. I'm sure this policy doesn't get abused in any way at all.:rolleyes:


--------------------
I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed.
Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists.

I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke.


In erowid we trust.

Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.


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Invisible404
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein]
    #23616949 - 09/06/16 03:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

That guy fucking sucks. Also, OP - how are you even trying to justify murder right now?? Killing people to reduce drug abuse is clearly the wrong way.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Registered: 05/15/14
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Loc: United States
Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein] * 1
    #23617023 - 09/06/16 05:20 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shekelstein said:
How is this a bad thing?




How is killing people and punishing people for doing what they want to their own bodies a bad thing?

Quote:

At least these policies are actually detracting some people from using hard drugs like heroin and meth.




As shitty of a drug as it is to do, it should still be their choice whether they want to fuck themselves up with those drugs, as long as what you're doing is only harming you and not infringing upon the rights and freedoms of other people, it should be a choice, not a crime. In some sense I'd consider what they're doing to be an act of terrorism on their own people.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #23617037 - 09/06/16 05:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

So it saves some people. What about the thousands of others who are killed? What about their families?

You're talking about saving a small good at the risk and peril of the greater good here.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Crystal G] * 5
    #23617055 - 09/06/16 05:48 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

1. Story linked in OP is from the Daily Mail. Since many here are not UK residents, let me inform you that this paper is well known here for being the most deceitful, propaganda spreading, disgusting and downright corrupt newspaper in the country

2. The whole argument stated here is fucking retarded. Killing people for any reason is fucking wrong, let alone for choosing to work in a business that is only so fucked up and full of death due to the fact that TPTB claim it is wrong, and have brainwashed the masses to believe it is so. If the governments of the world controlled the trade and said it was OK (as with the pharma industry, and all the people whos brains it fucks to shit), would we be questioning this?

3. NEWSFLASH: Humans, throughout the course of history, have always used drugs, and will likely always continue to do so.

4. The war on drugs failed the moment it started. The whole thing is based on lies. Read this if you want to learn about them: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Chasing-Scream-First-Last-Drugs/dp/1408857839

5. Lets start using some fucking common sense people. The man, Rodrigo Duterte, dubbed 'The Punisher', is clearly fucking mentally retarded, and is just a product of 'The System'.

6. If you would like me to continue, give me a couple of upvotes. I can think of at least a dozen more reasons this shit is morally, spiritually, emotionally, and basically, on every level, WRONG.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlineshekelstein
Psychedelic Master Race

Registered: 09/06/16
Posts: 37
Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Crystal G]
    #23617056 - 09/06/16 05:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
So it saves some people. What about the thousands of others who are killed? What about their families?

You're talking about saving a small good at the risk and peril of the greater good here.




Most of the people killed were probably already dead inside and causing problems in their society. I have never been to the Philippines and have no idea how toxic the drug culture is there. People voted for this guy so who am I to judge?

Some addicts need to hit rock bottom to change. The threat of being killed is one hell of a rock bottom. If you are going to do a war on drugs you might as well play it all the way through.


--------------------
Done lots of psychedelics. Seen some things.



Edited by shekelstein (09/06/16 05:50 AM)


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein]
    #23617057 - 09/06/16 05:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

See post above.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23617069 - 09/06/16 05:58 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I get the sense that he's a final solution kind of guy.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Registered: 05/15/14
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein] * 2
    #23617072 - 09/06/16 05:59 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shekelstein said:

The threat of being killed is one hell of a rock bottom.




And also comes off like terrorism, are you for governments using terrorism and fear against their own people to get their way? There shouldn't be a war on drugs ever and throughout history all prohibition has done is prove you can't stop people from doing what they want to themselves and shouldn't try because as history has shown, it just makes the problem worse.

You should always have the right to be the biggest idiot you want to be as long as you being an idiot doesn't interfere with the rights and freedoms of other people. Until then, it's none of your business what they choose to do regardless of how you feel about it.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein]
    #23617076 - 09/06/16 06:01 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shekelstein said:
If you are going to do a war on drugs you might as well play it all the way through.



But what about if that war can never be won. How can it ever be seen through?

It's like saying lets wage a war on emotions. Might we as well 'play it all the way through'? Ever read '1984' by Orwell or seen the film 'Equilibrium'?

I'm beginning to get the feeling OP is :cop:


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Offlineshekelstein
Psychedelic Master Race

Registered: 09/06/16
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Last seen: 7 years, 4 months
Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Great Scott]
    #23617078 - 09/06/16 06:02 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

"Officials cite the estimated 687,000 people who have surrendered, which vastly exceeded expectations, as evidence that Mr. Duterte’s deadly campaign is succeeding."

Honestly, looks to me like his policies have been more effective than the American war on drugs at a much lower cost.

I am not arguing for a war on drugs, just trying to understand the general perspective of the people of Philippines. For all we know half the people there could be shooting up meth and heroin. If this helps them get clean then congrats. I obviously don't think this is the best way though.


--------------------
Done lots of psychedelics. Seen some things.



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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein]
    #23617082 - 09/06/16 06:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

OP has a 1 Shroom rating, has been a member for 1 day only, and a picture of a Aryan 'Hitler Youth' as his avatar. Along with this thread, my suspicions are heightened. What is your agenda here OP???


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23617083 - 09/06/16 06:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)


If you want to help people get clean, they have to want to get clean, why not take the large amounts of money that they're spending on incarcerating and in this case, killing them, and put it towards addictions programs and rehabs for cheap costs, start treating it as a medical problem rather then a crime that way the people who want to stay idiots have that choice and the people who actually want help have options.

edit: Actually I feel dumb now for not thinking the OP was trolling especially with his post count and that avatar, almost definitely a puppet/troll :lol:


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Offlineshekelstein
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Registered: 09/06/16
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #23617090 - 09/06/16 06:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
If you want to help people get clean, they have to want to get clean, why not take the large amounts of money that they're spending on incarcerating and in this case, killing them, and put it towards addictions programs and rehabs for cheap costs, start treating it as a medical problem rather then a crime that way the people who want to stay idiots have that choice and the people who actually want help have options.




Protip: war on drugs always attacked the demand, rarely the supply. The Philippine tactics are going after both the supply and demand. It logically makes more sense if your goal is to stop people from doing drugs. I think people should be free but that's my opinion.


--------------------
Done lots of psychedelics. Seen some things.



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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein]
    #23617091 - 09/06/16 06:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

conveniently all regime critics and opposition was killed aswell


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein]
    #23617098 - 09/06/16 06:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

It's only a great idea so long as you're not the one on the extermination list. This type of governing is effective but cruel. If we weren't talking murdering human beings here and instead applied this type of model to killing micro-organisms or something, then that'd be different story, Jugend.


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Great Scott]
    #23617142 - 09/06/16 06:37 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

it's ok, eventually the Punisher will get assassinated, because in the Philippines they aren't a bunch of pussies, and their leaders already get blasted all the time.


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Invisible404
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein]
    #23617166 - 09/06/16 06:53 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shekelstein said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
So it saves some people. What about the thousands of others who are killed? What about their families?

You're talking about saving a small good at the risk and peril of the greater good here.




Most of the people killed were probably already dead inside and causing problems in their society. I have never been to the Philippines and have no idea how toxic the drug culture is there. People voted for this guy so who am I to judge?

Some addicts need to hit rock bottom to change. The threat of being killed is one hell of a rock bottom. If you are going to do a war on drugs you might as well play it all the way through.




The harder drugs that carry more of a risk for addiction also tend to be the ones that can kill you. I don't think we need to add life imprisonment or the threat of being murdered by the government to 'reasons to quit'


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Invisible404
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein] * 2
    #23617202 - 09/06/16 07:04 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shekelstein said:
Quote:

SirShroomsAlott said:
If you want to help people get clean, they have to want to get clean, why not take the large amounts of money that they're spending on incarcerating and in this case, killing them, and put it towards addictions programs and rehabs for cheap costs, start treating it as a medical problem rather then a crime that way the people who want to stay idiots have that choice and the people who actually want help have options.




Protip: war on drugs always attacked the demand, rarely the supply. The Philippine tactics are going after both the supply and demand. It logically makes more sense if your goal is to stop people from doing drugs. I think people should be free but that's my opinion.





The phillipines' tactics are counter intuitive to the actual problem at hand. It's been shown across the globe that making drugs illegal actually causes many of the problems we see in society - the war on drugs is more harmful to our society than the drugs themselves. In places where drugs are legal, profit margins for organized crime and the cartels is reduced and the deaths and violence also goes down, as well as overdoses and things of that nature. In Portugal, they saw a reduction of use and overdoses as result of decriming heroin and other places and providing clean needles to the people, in a sort of 'if you're going to use, we aren't going to stop you but you're going to do it safely' sort of manner, and i'm sure there are plenty of treatment options in place for those that do want to get better. In colorado, violence went down, teen use went down, and money was allocated into drug treatment and education as well when marijuana was legalized. Harm reduction is a far more sensible policy than the drug laws we've seen in place and being implemented in asia and  are far better for human rights as a whole than putting people to death for simply using a drug  or even trafficking.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Crystal G]
    #23617217 - 09/06/16 07:13 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
So it saves some people. What about the thousands of others who are killed? What about their families?





what about them?

Quote:

You're talking about saving a small good at the risk and peril of the greater good here.




what's the greater good?

if, as the article claims, 600,000 people have turned themselves in for treatment
and 1300 were killed, which of these numbers are greater and which are smaller
and how do you know which is the greater good and the smaller good?


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Offlineakira_akuma
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23617225 - 09/06/16 07:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

ahhhhhh *breathes deep* utilitarianism.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23617235 - 09/06/16 07:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Killing people for any reason is fucking wrong






what about in self defense or the defense of others?


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: 404]
    #23617239 - 09/06/16 07:19 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Plus the war on drugs is a UN Agenda. In other words, a dirty jew trick (if you believe in that sort of thing). You would think that a goose-stepping master problem solver would make the connection or at least recognize the irony. :facepalm3:


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Offlineshekelstein
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Great Scott]
    #23617246 - 09/06/16 07:23 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Clearly none of you guys have dealt with addicts or been one. It is not something to be taken lightly. If these policies stop even a thousand people from using those are a thousand lives saved.



--------------------
Done lots of psychedelics. Seen some things.



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Invisible404
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23617248 - 09/06/16 07:24 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
So it saves some people. What about the thousands of others who are killed? What about their families?





what about them?

Quote:

You're talking about saving a small good at the risk and peril of the greater good here.




what's the greater good?

if, as the article claims, 600,000 people have turned themselves in for treatment
and 1300 were killed, which of these numbers are greater and which are smaller
and how do you know which is the greater good and the smaller good?






Justifying saving people people by killing others when there are better morrally sound ways of doing it without killing them is unnacceptable


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Invisible404
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein]
    #23617253 - 09/06/16 07:24 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shekelstein said:
Clearly none of you guys have dealt with addicts or been one. It is not something to be taken lightly. If these policies stop even a thousand people from using those are a thousand lives saved.







See above post. Your logic has failed you... Either that or you aren't reading anyone's arguments.


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Offlineshekelstein
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: 404]
    #23617260 - 09/06/16 07:26 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You need to consider the mothers, fathers, sons, daughters, teachers, ect. that are all affected by these addictions. It's not just one person.

Clearly everyone should be free but do addicts truly have free will to just stop?


--------------------
Done lots of psychedelics. Seen some things.



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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein]
    #23617264 - 09/06/16 07:27 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shekelstein said:
Clearly none of you guys have dealt with addicts or been one.



Man you have so much to learn about the Shroomery. I find quite immature, foolish, and insulting that you come here for a day and make a statement like that. You'll find, if you hang around and stop being such an ass, that there are many ex-addicts here, with more life experience than you could possibly imagine based on the tone of your posts.

What are you, 15?


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisible404
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein]
    #23617267 - 09/06/16 07:29 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You still haven't addressed anything i've said in the thread, starting to think you're just trolling.

>>Justifying saving people people by killing others when there are better morrally sound ways of doing it without killing them is unnacceptable.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: 404] * 1
    #23617275 - 09/06/16 07:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
starting to think you're just trolling.




What was your first clue? :strokebeard:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: 404]
    #23617278 - 09/06/16 07:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
So it saves some people. What about the thousands of others who are killed? What about their families?





what about them?

Quote:

You're talking about saving a small good at the risk and peril of the greater good here.




what's the greater good?

if, as the article claims, 600,000 people have turned themselves in for treatment
and 1300 were killed, which of these numbers are greater and which are smaller
and how do you know which is the greater good and the smaller good?






Justifying saving people people by killing others when there are better morrally sound ways of doing it without killing them is unnacceptable





if a man is attacking my children and I kill that man, is it justifiable in order to save my children?


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Offlineshekelstein
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Great Scott]
    #23617279 - 09/06/16 07:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I said first and foremost I believe in freedom to do whatever you want, BUT if your goal is to stop all drug use this is a far more effective method than the war on drugs in the States. How is this trolling?


--------------------
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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein]
    #23617280 - 09/06/16 07:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

#AddictLivesMatter


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23617283 - 09/06/16 07:35 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Pris, you're baiting.

OP, you need to get the fuck off a drugs forum and go join a political party, the police force, or some dogmatic religion. You don't belong here.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisible404
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23617284 - 09/06/16 07:35 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ins't that a straw man argument? We are talking about drug use and addiction and how to deal with it, not stand your ground laws. Don't worry, i'm sure there will be a police shooting or murder thread soon enough given how often they occur where you can rightfully argue that point of view.


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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #23617285 - 09/06/16 07:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ibogaine the fuck outta' them.

:strangelove:


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Offlineshekelstein
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23617287 - 09/06/16 07:37 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
Pris, you're baiting.

OP, you need to get the fuck off a drugs forum and go join a political party, the police force, or some dogmatic religion. You don't belong here.




You don't know me. You don't know my story. Who are you to say where I belong? Watch out kid, just cause you got more posts doesn't mean you know more than I do.


--------------------
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Invisible404
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein]
    #23617289 - 09/06/16 07:38 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

shekelstein said:
I said first and foremost I believe in freedom to do whatever you want, BUT if your goal is to stop all drug use this is a far more effective method than the war on drugs in the States. How is this trolling?





Except it's not better, morrally unsound, and doesn't take into account other policies like were mentioned that are in place in colorado and portugal and other countries.


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InvisiblePatrickKn
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: 404]
    #23617295 - 09/06/16 07:39 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Don't feed the troll. Dudes probably Bitter Cactus or something.


Edited by PatrickKn (09/06/16 07:39 AM)


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: PatrickKn]
    #23617304 - 09/06/16 07:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

We should just kill anybody who commits any crime whatsoever.

Theft? Death.
Being on welfare? Death.
Smoking pot? Death.
Habitual drinker? Death.
Speeding ticket? Death.
Jaywalking? Death.
Bribery? Death.
Fighting? Death.

Soon we're going to be killing over 50% of the population in no time.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: PatrickKn]
    #23617307 - 09/06/16 07:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Don't feed the troll. Dudes probably Bitter Cactus or something.



Good fucking plan. I'm done.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: 404]
    #23617308 - 09/06/16 07:44 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Ins't that a straw man argument? We are talking about drug use and addiction and how to deal with it, not stand your ground laws. Don't worry, i'm sure there will be a police shooting or murder thread soon enough given how often they occur where you can rightfully argue that point of view.




I think he was taking your statement literally as he is apt to do.

Quote:

404 said:
Justifying saving people people by killing others when there are better morrally sound ways of doing it without killing them is unnacceptable




Pris - The morally acceptable thing to do would be to shoot the gun out of the assailant's hand. I hope you've been keeping up with your range visits, because your life depends on being able to hit that stapler-sized target instead of the torso-sized one.

:gameover:


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Offlineshekelstein
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: PatrickKn]
    #23617314 - 09/06/16 07:46 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PatrickKn said:
Don't feed the troll. Dudes probably Bitter Cactus or something.




:incredible:

LMAO it actually is. I know this will be my last post but goodnight boys. I miss you all :frown:


--------------------
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Crystal G]
    #23617318 - 09/06/16 07:46 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
We should just kill anybody who commits any crime whatsoever.

Theft? Death.
Being on welfare? Death.
Smoking pot? Death.
Habitual drinker? Death.
Speeding ticket? Death.
Jaywalking? Death.
Bribery? Death.
Fighting? Death.

Soon we're going to be killing over 50% of the population in no time.




That's big talk for someone who shills for the New (population) World (reduction) Order.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: 404]
    #23617326 - 09/06/16 07:48 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Ins't that a straw man argument? We are talking about drug use and addiction and how to deal with it, not stand your ground laws. Don't worry, i'm sure there will be a police shooting or murder thread soon enough given how often they occur where you can rightfully argue that point of view.





you're the one that said it was unacceptable to kill someone by killing others.

I'm simply showing you that it's not black and white


in the instance of drug addiction, 1300 people are killed and 600,000 manage to
kick the addiction to the drugs that will likely cost them their lives, the drugs
that have them prostituting their children. nearly 20% of the prostitutes in the
Philippines are children as young as 8. do you think it's acceptable for a drug
addicted parent to sell or whore their children out to get a fix?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Crystal G]
    #23617331 - 09/06/16 07:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
We should just kill anybody who commits any crime whatsoever.

Theft? Death.
Being on welfare? Death.
Smoking pot? Death.
Habitual drinker? Death.
Speeding ticket? Death.
Jaywalking? Death.
Bribery? Death.
Fighting? Death.

Soon we're going to be killing over 50% of the population in no time.





arent liberals always telling us that the earth is overpopulated and we need to eliminate half the people anyway?


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Invisible404
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23617345 - 09/06/16 07:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Except... I never said things were black and white. Did you not read? I said there are much better ways of dealing with drug use and the ailments of society and gave examples of those ways. I never said it was bad to kill someone out of self defence, we aren't even talking about self defence here. Can you try to formulate a proper argument?


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Invisible404
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23617353 - 09/06/16 07:58 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:


you're the one that said it was unacceptable to kill someone by killing others.

I'm simply showing you that it's not black and white


in the instance of drug addiction, 1300 people are killed and 600,000 manage to
kick the addiction to the drugs that will likely cost them their lives, the drugs
that have them prostituting their children. nearly 20% of the prostitutes in the
Philippines are children as young as 8. do you think it's acceptable for a drug
addicted parent to sell or whore their children out to get a fix?




Well obviously whoring your children out is illegal... Maybe they should focus on not allowing that to happen..? I can't help but feel that if they had similar situations available to them like what's been set up in other countries like portugal they might could get help rather than what's available to them as it atands right now.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: 404]
    #23617369 - 09/06/16 08:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Slavery and human trafficking. Those are the world's biggest problems summed up in 4 words.


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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Great Scott]
    #23617370 - 09/06/16 08:06 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)



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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: 404]
    #23617393 - 09/06/16 08:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:


you're the one that said it was unacceptable to kill someone by killing others.

I'm simply showing you that it's not black and white


in the instance of drug addiction, 1300 people are killed and 600,000 manage to
kick the addiction to the drugs that will likely cost them their lives, the drugs
that have them prostituting their children. nearly 20% of the prostitutes in the
Philippines are children as young as 8. do you think it's acceptable for a drug
addicted parent to sell or whore their children out to get a fix?




Well obviously whoring your children out is illegal... Maybe they should focus on not allowing that to happen..?




it looks like they're doing that and taking care of a lot of their other crime
problems with one ultimatum, quit using drugs or die. if they manage to get half
the addicts off drugs then a large number of dealers are out of business in the
process, a large number of violent crimes such as robberies also stop and the
number of children that will be trafficked is also reduced

Quote:

I can't help but feel that if they had similar situations available to them like what's been set up in other countries like portugal they might could get help rather than what's available to them as it atands right now.




Portugal isnt as poor as the Philippines, maybe you'd like to donate your time
and money to aiding the addicts there. it appears they have something in place
that's working far more effectively because in a few short months, 600,000
people have decided to get off drugs


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: 404]
    #23617397 - 09/06/16 08:19 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Except... I never said things were black and white. Did you not read? I said there are much better ways of dealing with drug use and the ailments of society and gave examples of those ways. I never said it was bad to kill someone out of self defence, we aren't even talking about self defence here. Can you try to formulate a proper argument?





what are those better ways in one of the poorest nations in the world?

and yes, it is in fact self defense and the defense of others


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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23617399 - 09/06/16 08:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, probably all in prison now, "turned themselves into authorities" so now, being poor, the government is going to figure out what to do with those people.


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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23617403 - 09/06/16 08:23 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Me choosing to put heroin in my body of my own volition is not grounds for an argument for your self defense. They are unrelated matters.


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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: 404]
    #23617432 - 09/06/16 08:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Why? Because it saves them a shit ton of money by letting the people get rid of those people for them. Now they dont have to feed them everyday in a prison. Its brilliant....on paper. I personally would never do that because you could accomplish the same effect with two mortys and a jumper cable.


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Offlinehex_enduction
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: spirit_shadow]
    #23617481 - 09/06/16 08:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Fucking bitter cactus :lol:

I didn't know shit about these atrocities going on in the phillipines until now. Jesus fuckin Christ, and I'm sitting here bitching about the upcoming kratom ban :lol:

I predict this Muterte dude gets assassinated in the somewhat near future. But maybe I'm being optimistic.


--------------------


Connoisseur said:
oh ive cried on drugs

sunshine said:
Tragic.  I told the cop not to do it but he didn't listen.


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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: 404]
    #23617661 - 09/06/16 10:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Me choosing to put heroin in my body of my own volition is not grounds for an argument for your self defense. They are unrelated matters.





your choice is always your choice until your decisions affect the lives of others
such as pimping out your child, robbing the local grocer or tourists in order to
support your habit, functioning heroin addicts are pretty rare


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: 404]
    #23617667 - 09/06/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

404 said:
Yeah, probably all in prison now, "turned themselves into authorities" so now, being poor, the government is going to figure out what to do with those people.





if you had read the article, they're going to 'zoomba' clases that give them
something to occupy their time for a little while, gets them some exercise and
they're being fed. they havent been imprisoned.


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InvisibleSirShroomsAlott
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23617678 - 09/06/16 10:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Would you agree that their tactics fall under the definition of terrorism? Mainly just curious.


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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #23617702 - 09/06/16 10:25 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)



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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23617999 - 09/06/16 12:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I tink heroin, meth, and the addictive drugs are evil. They make people think they need them, so they steal and ruin the lives of others, and they are oftain tainted and impure.

This is terribe though, and this president is a bad person. There are many users of less harmful drugs, who dont hurt anyone, and they will gt caught up in the killing.

We have such freedom here, that there is no recourse for heroin addicts. The family maybe abe to convince them to go to rehab, or if the are a minor there are retreats they send the to. They can also wait untill they have the drugs on them and call the cops and get them locked up. Either way, they get out and get right back on it

I wouldnt have a problem if the addicts didnt destroy everyone around them. Its easy to say 'cut them off', but its so difficult when they are a loved one.

Its a very complicated problem, and that is not the solution. addiction is a mental health problem, and we have no way to deal with mental health in this country. We have a community out-patient health center here, and it doesnt work. we need more places and easier ways to lock u people like addicts for a long time without it being a punishment. Prison isnt the solution. I just saw on the local news, a man and women getting decades to life for giving an old addict some bad heroin, which killed him. That doesnt seem to be the solution at all


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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23618041 - 09/06/16 12:29 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If we made it legal cheap and available they wouldn't bother stealing for it.
What we have now is a failing outdated system.

OP Vlad the Impaler succeeded in eliminating all crime but at what cost? No one with half a brain wants to live under a dictator.


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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Love_spirit]
    #23618068 - 09/06/16 12:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

So the solution to the heroin proble is to make it easier to get so the addicts can get deeper into their addiction? Thats stupid


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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: shekelstein] * 2
    #23618121 - 09/06/16 12:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You guys realize that Duerte would be targeting every single user on here for death if he could, right? If you lived in the phillipines as a shroomerite, you'd probably be dead by now. Make no mistake, this is about hunting down killing people just like you.

You think it's bad when a cop finds a bag of weed and charges someone with dealing? Imagine a cop finding a bag of weed, and having the person kneel, and shooting them in the back of the head.


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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23618262 - 09/06/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
So the solution to the heroin proble is to make it easier to get so the addicts can get deeper into their addiction?




What's stopping them from getting addicted in the first place and furthering their addictions now? Because being illegal sure isn't. I don't see how it would be easier to get from a regulated facility then your local drug dealer, it seems like it would be the exact same IMO, but as cliche as it sounds, literally think of the children in this scenario. Now it would be regulated making it much harder for people of a younger age to get it, and by the time they're old enough to most would know enough about it to steer clear while the ones who still would use it, would of whether it was illegal or not. Which means at the very least younger people would end up using less then now because it would be harder to get.

Hence why pot is generally easier to get then alcohol when it comes to minors, because alcohol is regulated where weed isn't (even though that's changing :laugh:), drug dealers don't I.D., regulated facilities would. Plus think of all the extra funds being saved because we're no longer spending it on incarcerating and arresting these people, we could put that towards affordable addiction programs and treat it as a medical problem rather then a crime so the people who actually want help will have the options to do so.

Even if I'm off on a few points, there's literally thousands of reasons why prohibition is at the very least the dumber option when compared to legalization. Either way, treating these people as criminals and locking them up is obviously doing very little if anything to help this problem, so we need a change.


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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #23618272 - 09/06/16 01:29 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Regulating it wouldnt eliminate the illegal market. There is no guarentee this would stop them from stealing and being terribe people.


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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23618282 - 09/06/16 01:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

stealing is a crime with or without drugs and would stay that way. Which is why I said you should be allowed to do whatever you want to yourself as long as you're not infringing upon the rights and freedoms of other people, once you do something that does, then with or without drugs you're committing a crime and should be treated as such. If anything it would still make the illegal market safer because no one is going to go to the local corner drug dealer down the street who might actually be selling heroin when they can go to a regulated facility and be guaranteed a clean product, overdoses would become less common because people actually know what they're putting in their bodies, which forces the illegal market to not only compete in pricing but also with product.

Gangs and cartels would struggle immensely and suffer heavily from legalization which is why the cartels in particular are openly against legalization. Whether legal or illegal, if there's a demand for something there's a market for it that someone will exploit, might as well make sure it's all clean and taxed and then use that revenue towards stuff like rehabs and addiction programs at affordable rates so people who want help can get it while the people who don't want help would still be doing it either way.

As much as I hate heroin, personal choice is personal choice, whether I agree with that choice or not.


Edited by SirShroomsAlott (09/06/16 01:38 PM)


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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: SirShroomsAlott]
    #23618303 - 09/06/16 01:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Id like to know how we will pay for all of these facilities, workers, needles, and heroin.
Im assuming all this heroin will be free, otherwise there is no inscentive

I have some experiance with addicts. Things disappear, they get their fix, they lie, family wants to believe them, they steal again, untill they get cut off.


This seems like a stupid idea as it encourages use. we dont do anything in this country because, once you are free of the crime you commited, you get to go right back to ruining your family and destroying everythig around you.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Love_spirit] * 1
    #23619770 - 09/06/16 09:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Love_spirit said:
If we made it legal cheap and available they wouldn't bother stealing for it.
What we have now is a failing outdated system.

OP Vlad the Impaler succeeded in eliminating all crime but at what cost? No one with half a brain wants to live under a dictator.





I'm all for legalization of all drugs, I'm also for making the fools that become
addicts suffer the consequences of their choices, the addicts that burn their
bridges, end up on the streets with nothing, unable to even whore themselves out
should be left to die, once that's done, scoop them up, incinerate them and call
it a day.


while I dont agree with killing addicts, dealers, etc... just for doing what they
do, they are a serious blight on nations that are already heavily burdened with
poverty, as a result, 40% of the kids there are using drugs, many of those are in
fact dealers, 45% of the government officials including the cops have been
arrested for drugs including officers with the phillippine DEA, meth is the most
commonly used drug and it's being dumped by the chinese cartels, some of which are
actually protected by the PDEA.

Rodrigo Duterte is a man trying to take his country back. if people started
looking at the whole picture they wouldnt just see some drug users being targeted,
the man has put a big bullseye on his own back because he's costing those cartels
and when some of them start getting caught up in these sweeps, they'll be out for
him. assuming they arent already given that more than 150 of the arrested are
government officials protecting these cartels


anyway, who will make drugs cheap?


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Offlineyabbahabba
Stranger
Registered: 06/16/09
Posts: 589
Last seen: 4 months, 16 days
Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: my3rdeye]
    #23620452 - 09/07/16 12:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

At first I HA!'d at you. Then I remember the early days when I was a fuckin ninja separating the paper plates and skillfully sliding silverware out, making sure I made no noise opening the freezer/fridge to get ice cream/milk out in order to hook myself up with some cake and ice cream in peace without having to worry about what it might be like to answer to my parents that high. That shit was INTENSE.

But I'd rather be paranoid about red eyes and parents than worry about being murdered, I reckon.


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InvisibleZombi3
Bella Ciao!!
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Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 27,086
Loc: Bat Country Flag
Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: yabbahabba]
    #23620453 - 09/07/16 12:10 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Their president supported the mirdered of drug users!? What class of drugs is the biggest issue over there? Herron?


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Zombi3]
    #23620467 - 09/07/16 12:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Pretty sure it was just dealers he authorised anyone to kill with impunity.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
Happy


Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23620563 - 09/07/16 01:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Id like to know how we will pay for all of these facilities, workers, needles, and heroin.
Im assuming all this heroin will be free, otherwise there is no inscentive

I have some experiance with addicts. Things disappear, they get their fix, they lie, family wants to believe them, they steal again, untill they get cut off.


This seems like a stupid idea as it encourages use. we dont do anything in this country because, once you are free of the crime you commited, you get to go right back to ruining your family and destroying everythig around you.




Pay for it with all the money we are currently paying for the DEA and for keeping non violent drug offenders in prison. Then tax it so the addicts  themselves pay for the damage they are doing. Stop drug testing at jobs where it isnt absolutely necessary so the addicts at least have the choice to work. Offer free rehab with free buprenorphine and methadone.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: Zombi3]
    #23621441 - 09/07/16 10:23 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Zombi3 said:
Their president supported the mirdered of drug users!? What class of drugs is the biggest issue over there? Herron?





crystal meth

their president has a 91% approval rating even now


maybe obama will seek to boost his ratings as well


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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Registered: 06/23/07
Posts: 7,953
Last seen: 1 year, 7 months
Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
    #23622350 - 09/07/16 03:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

howsyournaggerdoin said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Id like to know how we will pay for all of these facilities, workers, needles, and heroin.
Im assuming all this heroin will be free, otherwise there is no inscentive

I have some experiance with addicts. Things disappear, they get their fix, they lie, family wants to believe them, they steal again, untill they get cut off.


This seems like a stupid idea as it encourages use. we dont do anything in this country because, once you are free of the crime you commited, you get to go right back to ruining your family and destroying everythig around you.




Pay for it with all the money we are currently paying for the DEA and for keeping non violent drug offenders in prison. Then tax it so the addicts  themselves pay for the damage they are doing. Stop drug testing at jobs where it isnt absolutely necessary so the addicts at least have the choice to work. Offer free rehab with free buprenorphine and methadone.




Just give them heroin, the withdrawal is quicker and "easier" than coming off methadone.

Spain and Portugal have been doing this for 16 years now. Criminals have to find other ways to make money.


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Invisibletyrannicalrex
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Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
Re: 60,000 people turn themselves in to authorities in the Philippines [Re: howsyournaggerdoin]
    #23622519 - 09/07/16 04:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

howsyournaggerdoin said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Id like to know how we will pay for all of these facilities, workers, needles, and heroin.
Im assuming all this heroin will be free, otherwise there is no inscentive

I have some experiance with addicts. Things disappear, they get their fix, they lie, family wants to believe them, they steal again, untill they get cut off.


This seems like a stupid idea as it encourages use. we dont do anything in this country because, once you are free of the crime you commited, you get to go right back to ruining your family and destroying everythig around you.




Pay for it with all the money we are currently paying for the DEA and for keeping non violent drug offenders in prison. Then tax it so the addicts  themselves pay for the damage they are doing. Stop drug testing at jobs where it isnt absolutely necessary so the addicts at least have the choice to work. Offer free rehab with free buprenorphine and methadone.



And use all that cash they have in the police evidence lockers! (if there is actually any)


--------------------


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