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agarmeister
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Registered: 01/10/14
Posts: 277
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Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them?
#23614879 - 09/05/16 01:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hi all,
I recently experienced a bad trip while shroomin'. I was at the beach, alone, and took a mere 3g of dried cubensis, consumed as tea with lemon.
After a couple of hours of pretty enjoyable trip, I started feeling so-so, which resulted in a weird feedback-loop sensation ("oh-uh, somethings not right > oh no, it's getting worse > I don't want this > keep calm > can't > breathe > not working > shit, I'm freeking out...") I ended up calling my family which fortunately came to the rescue, so I'm fine now.
This is the second time it happens to me, so I'm trying to understand what exactly happens during bad trips - and how to stay out of danger / reduce the bad effects when it happens.
I looked on-line and found little resources on this. I did find trip guides and guidelines on tripping safe, but that's not what I'm looking for.
What I need is some kind of research made on bad trips by someone who actually understands the mental mechanisms at play. I know that no one really knows what happens in your brain while tripping, but still, I'm sure that many therapists who aid people in psychological crisis caused by psychedelics would have many insights on the matter.
If you have any good links, feel free to share.
Much love
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LSDollar


Registered: 02/09/15
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: agarmeister]
#23614908 - 09/05/16 02:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Mindset and setting..Its hard to say why you have a bad trip, ive always had pretty good ones on cubes. There was one or two that were a bit sketchy for me.
Lsd, usually I have lots of anxiety on the come up. I have only had bad lsd trips when I smoke weed with it, usually when I smoke to much while I am still coming up. After I peak, I can smoke a bit more. A bowl will usually last the first few hours.
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AuroraBorealis88
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: agarmeister] 1
#23614922 - 09/05/16 02:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's not like you're gonna find a study on bad trips as in finding a scientific explanation for why they happen. Bad trips are no different than normal trips it's just how the user interprets it.
I would say set and setting are really all you can say. People often under think the 'set'
I would say shrooming alone at the beach is probably what caused it but I don't know because I wasn't there. There's not gonna be a simple answer for this especially considering that a bad trip is not a specific thing. There's really nothing about them that differs from "normal" trips it's simply just your interpretation.
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fractaloctopus
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: agarmeister]
#23614936 - 09/05/16 02:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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It simply comes down to the fact that psychedelics are powerful tools for delving deep into your mind, not just party favors that make things all giggly and sparkly.
The word psychedelic means "mind manifesting." So on most any dose you have the potential to bring forward any part of your mind. Higher doses tend to go deeper, but even on a moderate dose, things can go sideways very easily. I think this is where so many people get into trouble. They expect happy, fun times all the time, but then it starts to go a little bit off the rails (like you starting to not feel 100%) and then it starts to spiral out of control because it is so unexpected.
While set and setting are of huge importance to having a successful trip, I also think that simply knowing the potential of a given substance is paramount. If you know that thought loops can occur, then when one starts you have a better chance of breaking yourself out of it. It is quite common for something like mushrooms to induce nausea, so knowing that you can prepare them in tea or lemontek to reduce it. Just simply understanding that you are under the influence of a drug and that eventually you will be sober again is a massively helpful thing to teach yourself to keep going in the back of your mind should things go off. Also as far as I've experienced, yes those "bad trips" can be terrifying at the time, but once you have a few of them (and everyone has them) you will not only understand they tend to be rather powerful learning experiences, but also that you do survive them making the next one not quite so scary.
While this may not be the answer you're looking for (to never have bad trips never do ______), but I do think it's vital to having successful trips.
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Dim ethyl
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23614948 - 09/05/16 02:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Shrooms pretty much fracture the psyche... If you got some sediment that washes up on the shore, your beach may get polluted... Shroom are like a tsunami, the waves bring up all the muck and fifth that's been laying at the bottom off our subconscious and as ignorant, superstitious, tripped out humans, we rationalized it as some crazy spirit or demon when it's just a part of yourself coming to fruition for the confrontation. It's up to your interpretation. You either learn from it or think your possessed and miss the whole lesson... People getting "possessed" IMHO means stop doing drugs, you have an underlying mental illness or some deep fuckedupedness you should deal with immediately but chances are your silly ego begs to differ so you chose to ruin your brain and go crazy on some absent minded quest.
Found this last night wish I could give credit to who wrote it.
-------------------- “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” -Bill Hicks
 
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LSDollar


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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: Dim ethyl]
#23614969 - 09/05/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Should also say, that I never trip if I am having any anxiety. I have been having some anxiety issues last few weeks, and have turned down tripping because of the anxiety on lsd
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Duncan Rowhl
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: LSDollar]
#23615067 - 09/05/16 03:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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It would seem like you are trying to do two contradictory things:
You are taking a substance which allows you to escape yourself.
....yet you are trying your utmost to retain yourself.
The supposed 'real you' (the ego) and the 'abstract' cannot effectively coexist during the experience.
The 'loop' you perceive is a circular 'back and forth' between ego mind and 'abstraction'.
The answer, (besides stopping consuming them) is to be accepting entering into the mushrooms consensus and surrendering the ego from the outset.
Edited by Duncan Rowhl (09/05/16 03:15 PM)
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AuroraBorealis88
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: Dim ethyl]
#23615099 - 09/05/16 03:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dim ethyl said: Shrooms pretty much fracture the psyche... If you got some sediment that washes up on the shore, your beach may get polluted... Shroom are like a tsunami, the waves bring up all the muck and fifth that's been laying at the bottom off our subconscious and as ignorant, superstitious, tripped out humans, we rationalized it as some crazy spirit or demon when it's just a part of yourself coming to fruition for the confrontation. It's up to your interpretation. You either learn from it or think your possessed and miss the whole lesson... People getting "possessed" IMHO means stop doing drugs, you have an underlying mental illness or some deep fuckedupedness you should deal with immediately but chances are your silly ego begs to differ so you chose to ruin your brain and go crazy on some absent minded quest.
Found this last night wish I could give credit to who wrote it.
Lmfao I was about to say I literally just read someone say that same thing last night.
Too bad it's heavily inaccurate.
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Dim ethyl
As below so above



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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23615156 - 09/05/16 03:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm sure It's different for some. My mushroom experience is not your mushroom experience, you dig?
-------------------- “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” -Bill Hicks
 
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Peyote Road
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: Dim ethyl]
#23615482 - 09/05/16 05:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
we rationalized it as some crazy spirit or demon when it's just a part of yourself coming to fruition for the confrontation.
I agree with this kind of, except to say that these fractured/suppressed parts of our self tend to take on a life of their own, which is why they are conceptualized as demons in religions. Furthermore, I believe that many people can share the same psychological problems and this creates a force that is more powerful than merely your individual mind so there is a certain truth to the idea of demons.
-------------------- The path of the herbalist is to open ourselves to nature in an innocent and pure way. SHe in turn will open her bounty and reward us with many valuable secrets. May the earth bless you. - Michael Tierra
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a wing and prayer
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: agarmeister]
#23615598 - 09/05/16 05:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I can tell you exactly what causes bad trips, at least scientifically.
Sometimes when your tripping for whatever reason you brain thinks you've been poisoned so your brain thinks your under attack and at risk of death from an unknown poison. So it activates you sympathetic nervous system which causes your Adrenal Medulla to initiate a Hormone cascade and release the chemicals of Norepinephrine, Epinephrine, and Adrenaline, Adrenaline is what causes that butterflies in your stomach feeling. There is no way of really stopping an automatic response to a perceived threat to your life, even though the threat is not real your nervous system has no way of knowing that.
But don't just take my word for it. Go and read about the fight or flight response as well as Norepinephrine, Epinephrine and Adrenaline and learn what they do so you can recognise if that's what is happening to you during a bad trip.
Also read about the Pathophysiology of panic attacks which is what a lot of people go through during a bad trip
Edited by a wing and prayer (09/05/16 06:18 PM)
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Sabnock
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: a wing and prayer]
#23615651 - 09/05/16 06:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
a wing and prayer said:Go and read about the fight or flight response as well as Norepinephrine, Epinephrine and Adrenaline and learn what they do so you can recognise if that's what is happening to you during a bad trip.
Adrenaline is Epinephrine, Noradrenaline is Norepinephrine.
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AuroraBorealis88
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: Dim ethyl]
#23616195 - 09/05/16 08:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dim ethyl said: I'm sure It's different for some. My mushroom experience is not your mushroom experience, you dig?
Yeah but I just think that whole thing applies more to acid.
I feel like shrooms are different and it's not just you you're dealing with in there.
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Hygrocybe
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: agarmeister]
#23616249 - 09/05/16 08:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
agarmeister said: After a couple of hours of pretty enjoyable trip, I started feeling so-so, which resulted in a weird feedback-loop sensation ("oh-uh, somethings not right > oh no, it's getting worse > I don't want this > keep calm > can't > breathe > not working > shit, I'm freeking out...")
somethings not right > feel what's taking place in your body > it's getting worse > if my body can feel these sensations, so can I > let the full intensity of the experience unfold, no need for calm
You are safe, no matter how frightening the trip becomes, these are all energies being released through your body. You can be afraid of them or welcome them, they will flow through you just the same. Break the experience down to the level of sensation, try not to label it as good or bad, just see what wants to unfold.
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Dim ethyl
As below so above



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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
#23616438 - 09/05/16 09:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
AuroraBorealis88 said:
Quote:
Dim ethyl said: I'm sure It's different for some. My mushroom experience is not your mushroom experience, you dig?
Yeah but I just think that whole thing applies more to acid.
I feel like shrooms are different and it's not just you you're dealing with in there.
I think I can see why you feel that way. I've found acid to be a lot less introspective. Don't get me wrong, acid can still be introspective as fuck, But I don't think it holds a candle to the mushroom in that regard.
-------------------- “Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather.” -Bill Hicks
 
Edited by Dim ethyl (09/05/16 09:59 PM)
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agarmeister
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Registered: 01/10/14
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: Dim ethyl]
#23616842 - 09/06/16 02:13 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Guys, Thanks for your replies.
I do feel that perhaps I haven't explained myself well enough, so some of the replies were kind of missing the intention of my original post.
I have experience with various psychedelics for a number of years now (mostly taken alone but also with others) , and I'm quite dedicated to self exploration, with little attachment to the content of the experience, be it blissful or more challenging. As long as it's meaningful and I can learn something from it - it's good.
I also practice insight meditation and had long therapy sessions throughout my life so I'm no stranger to confronting the "shadows" of the mind, while tripping and in everyday life.
The "bad" trip that I experienced was not merely a negative experience due to unwanted thoughts or sensations. I know those. This time it was a full-on panic attack. I've never had any panic or anxiety attacks in my life so this is definitely not "me".
When it happened I tried all sorts of auto-suggestion, telling myself (also out loud) that those are just thoughts, that it had happened before and I ended up fine, that it too shall pass like all other things... nothing worked. I spiralled down feeling anxious, afraid and sad like never before in my life. It was violent and definitely felt "physical" in the sense that the feeling of imminent danger was real. I was very close to calling an ambulance because even the idea of masked doctors with syringes, blood transfusions and too many questions felt better than being on my own in this state. And it DID happened to me a few months prior to the event. And I DID tell myself after that first time "ha, what was I thinking? I wasn't in danger, just a little freaked out, so lucky I didn't call an ambulance!" and yet, when it happened again, nothing that I told tell myself seemed to help.
The only thing that did help was when my partner came to the rescue and calmly and persistently dismissed my claims about the end of me, reassuring me that I'm safe and sane.
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Paul_Bab
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: agarmeister]
#23616881 - 09/06/16 02:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I haven't really had a bad trip, but I've come close plenty of times. I'm not sure of the reasons (learnt a few things reading this thread though) but as soon as I have these thoughts I try and figure out how to change the song if I'm listening to music and play with some trip toys to think about something else. Taking my mind somewhere else tends to work. Hope this doesn't happen to you again.
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SvampebobFirkant
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: Paul_Bab]
#23616975 - 09/06/16 04:14 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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For me, I have had one bad shroom trip, but it was bad in the sense that it shut down all joy and lust and desires I had in life. I didn't want to play games, I didn't wanna listen to music, I didn't want to watch movies, or even jack off. I kept having these thoughts, and it made me think that if I had to live like this for 70-80 more years, I'm gonna kill myself before that, because it is unmanageable.. However I quickly got my common sense back and knew it was the shrooms, but I was confused as to why it happened.. So I put on some family guy, and let the trip ride itself out. Immediatly after I put on family guy, I didn't even feel like I was tripping anymore.. Only having slight depressed thoughts
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Enkidu
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: SvampebobFirkant]
#23617757 - 09/06/16 10:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I didnt read all the replies because I'm lazy.
But to me, a bad trip is because there are things surfacing that you are suppose to deal with.
Two nights ago I took 5g dry with 16g fresh which was more than i've ever tried.
I too started to freak out, first time ever where I felt like I needed a sitter.
I turned on my phone and txt my friend and immediately felt better after he replied and was able to enjoy my trip, but it was because I needed or wanted someone or an environment where I felt safe and welcomed. I just needed reassurance at the time that everything was ok because I felt like I was going crazy for a split second.
But I wish I had dealt with it and worked thru it on my own.
I believe that is what you are suppose to do. I think you are suppose to just force yourself thru it.
I've had times where I started to think I was going to freak out or have a bad trip, mainly one time on 25i really the only time, but I just worked thru it alone.
So long story short, I think a bad trip is from things deep within us that are surfacing and that we need to deal with in order to move on and move past it.
Or a bad trip is because maybe we aren't ready for what we are being exposed to or experiencing?
This is just my personal opinions and views on bad trips.
But I do know there are tribes that feed people 7+ grams. sometimes as high as 28g from what I heard. I think a bad trip is beneficial for the mind.
-------------------- Within You , Without You
      
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agarmeister
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: Enkidu]
#23618344 - 09/06/16 01:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'd like to differentiate between situations where one encounters a difficult facet of their own mind, and may choose whether to confront or evade it, and those where panic takes over, and one is revoked of the ability to choose a course of action, basically struggles to survive every passing moment as if it was a life-threatening situation.
Insights are learned when I have the mental resources and space to grab something out of the experience and process it. When my entire being was in "code red", I was way too distracted and terrified to make any use of the situation.
And regarding people taking 7+ grams, well, I once took 5g, and I don't remember anything from the experience simply because my cognitive process was functioning so poorly, that nothing from the trip could "stick" and be integrated. It was a waste of 5g and a night's sleep, as far as I'm concerned.
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Grey Fox

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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: agarmeister]
#23618595 - 09/06/16 03:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Tripping is a great equalizer in that no matter how much you think you know or how much control you think you have the medicine will teach you otherwise. My guess would be that you had stronger shrooms than you are used to and you were less in control than in previous experiences. Therefore you panicked from lack of control over the experience. This is what tripping is. The deeper you go the less control you have. It is scary as shit but very rewarding. Its not for everyone.
-------------------- IT WAS ALL A DREAM
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agarmeister
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Re: Bad trips: what are they and what's causing them? [Re: Grey Fox]
#23620523 - 09/07/16 01:04 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks, but I don't think that this is the case here, as I'm usually taking 3-4g of the same strain (grew them myself) plus on this specific trip, the first couple of hours were nice and mild, nothing too extreme to handle.
This is why I'm trying to understand what actually happened, because I've had much stronger trips in the past and I was fine, and I'd like to know how to handle such situations in the future or better yet - prevent them.
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