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AgarStudent
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Registered: 01/25/15
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Fresh vs Dried Cubes
#23614318 - 09/05/16 10:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Okay, so I have done a comparison of fresh vs dried. I am sure that it has been done before, but here are some issues -
The fresh - No complaints at all, great for a party, awesome effects. Wow - it turns a plain carpet into a dancing textured carpet! cool!
The dry - Hmm pales by comparison. You grind it, mix it up and you feel a bit sick, but the effect is much more subtle and kinda crappy. It is like you stare at the tree and have to wait and be patient for the bark to slide down...
It is like the fresh is about 4-5 times more potent and you don't have to down as much and it seems a bit less taxing on the body, lesser hangover.
Has anyone else had this experience? Is dried normally crap for cubes? My temperature setting is about 46C or 115F and it takes a good six or eight hours to get them cracker dry...
Thanks
-------------------- Why reinvent the wheel when someone here has already done the science?
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xzylocybin
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did you take the same amount by weight during each test? what about other substances? How long before each test did you eat food? What were the two respective set and settings? were they all closed caps picked at the same time in the growth cycle?
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AgarStudent
Noob


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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: xzylocybin]
#23614370 - 09/05/16 10:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well, I would have fasted as always and picked just after the cap opened. I also got the feedback from a friend who confirmed the same info. How much actives do you think you lose on dehydration and do you think it might be too hot?
-------------------- Why reinvent the wheel when someone here has already done the science?
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LeeHarvOz
Homie



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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: xzylocybin]
#23614374 - 09/05/16 10:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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fresh cubes fuck my stomach up. they give me really uncomfortable gastrointestinal pain and nausea that is impossible to ignore and tends to ruin the trip. i've never experienced any discomfort from dried cubes.
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mushboy
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: xzylocybin]
#23614387 - 09/05/16 10:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ive eaten fresh and upset my tummy big time. and they tasted like shit. -bad time
ive eaten mushies i hid in my shoe for 10 hours while at ozzfest for maiden/sabbath they were not cracker dry but more like stale marshmellows. 7g of insanity but life changing event in my life.
ive dried mushies ontop of an old computer monitor for months. - all worked great. only complaints i got were people saying they didnt think they would trip so hard.
i find dry to be A+ wet was nasty and straight gross
point being... to each there own.
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AgarStudent
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: LeeHarvOz]
#23614391 - 09/05/16 10:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do you find cyans are any cleaner and not as harsh on your system?
-------------------- Why reinvent the wheel when someone here has already done the science?
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give.more
Lurker


Registered: 04/30/16
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I like the experience of fresh better, but cracker dry tend to make my tummy happier. Always eat what's best for you
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Mushierage
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: give.more]
#23614566 - 09/05/16 11:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I find the experience of fresh to be better almost universally (probably because of the higher psilocin content, which degrades as it dries). But unless I mix the cubes with something else, I can't even stand the taste of them anymore and eating fresh seriously burns my stomach up to the point of discomfort. I just eat them dry or make a drink out of them.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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lovelaughlibs
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: give.more]
#23614568 - 09/05/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Expectations and placebo can be a huge part of trips, if you expect dry mushrooms to give a shitty experience then they're much more likely to.
-------------------- Ask and ye shall receive; Seek and ye shall find.
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AgarStudent
Noob


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Okay - Thanks guys.
In relations to the key differences in strength - The psilocin is degraded in air, due to oxididation, but only the psylocybin remains in the dried and this explains the slightly weaker experience going from a fresh to a dry shroom? The temperature is not so much of an issue from what the forum says.
-------------------- Why reinvent the wheel when someone here has already done the science?
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TestSubject420247

Registered: 09/06/16
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes *DELETED* [Re: AgarStudent]
#23620230 - 09/06/16 10:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Post deleted by TestSubject420247
Reason for deletion: bye
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
TestSubject420247 said: I do personally believe heat can cause degradation in potency but not always enough to be substantial.
well your opinion is wrong.
Psilocin has a melting point of 185-195°C (well above 350°F) and psilocybin has a melting point of 173-176°C (around 340°F)
Not only that but the actual oxidation of psilocin as shown here:
 The reducing agent is the enzymes in the fresh fruit body. These enzymes get denatured at temps above 140°F, and stop doing oxidation. Well below the melting point of 340°F.
A dehydrator takes 12-24 hours to dehydrate completely. If you set it above 140, you're denaturing the enzymes, and it'll never actually reach a temperature that degrades psilocin. This is the best method at retaining potency.
TL;dr dry with a dehydrator.
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Mad Season]
#23620431 - 09/07/16 12:00 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mad Season said:
Quote:
TestSubject420247 said: I do personally believe heat can cause degradation in potency but not always enough to be substantial.
well your opinion is wrong.
Psilocin has a melting point of 185-195°C (well above 350°F) and psilocybin has a melting point of 173-176°C (around 340°F)
Not only that but the actual oxidation of psilocin as shown here:
 The reducing agent is the enzymes in the fresh fruit body. These enzymes get denatured at temps above 140°F, and stop doing oxidation. Well below the melting point of 340°F.
A dehydrator takes 12-24 hours to dehydrate completely. If you set it above 140, you're denaturing the enzymes, and it'll never actually reach a temperature that degrades psilocin. This is the best method at retaining potency.
TL;dr dry with a dehydrator.
I like ....
Heat does NOTHING to any active compounds found in mushrooms as long as you are not using a blow torch.
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jmullins1138
Stranger

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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: morty422]
#23620498 - 09/07/16 12:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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If I have a dehydrator that doesn't have temperature settings should I remove the heating coil?
Edit: Nevermind just researched the model 145 degrees Fahrenheit. So I should be good.
Edited by jmullins1138 (09/07/16 12:45 AM)
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tump
ban the undead



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Wet is horribly the top 7 worsts ways to spend 30 mins. Best and only way i can stand wet orange juice cooking the fresh mushrooms for ten mins then strain it . lets it cool to right above room temperature. It takes like magic and vomit. This is almost the only way for me to take those 20 to 120 dry gram trips. Fresh ish must different in the tripping
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AgarStudent
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: tump]
#23620938 - 09/07/16 06:48 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Awesome suggestions . Heat may not be affecting it, but it could more than likely be oxidation of the psilocin. It would be really good to get more of a handle on the chemistry.
-------------------- Why reinvent the wheel when someone here has already done the science?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Quote:
lovelaughlibs said: Expectations and placebo can be a huge part of trips, if you expect dry mushrooms to give a shitty experience then they're much more likely to.
This.
MS means every mushroom is different, so it could be genetic. Also tolerances don't actually reset until a few weeks at least so it could be tolerance related, and lastly mindset. this isn't just seen with psychedelics.. one day you can down 8 beers like it's nothing, and then another day you're done at 2. The drug didn't change, you did.
Also IME 6-8 hours of dehydrator isn't enough to dry. I do 24 hours just in case. Over drying does nothing, and actually has been better. If they aren't dry, storing them will also lower potency. So this could be a storage issue.
IME with clones, properly drying them out has had no noticeable potency difference from fresh to dry.
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Mushierage
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Mad Season]
#23621160 - 09/07/16 08:27 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Tolerance is a big one for me. If I trip, I gotta wait a least one entire week before I can dose again. But I generally don't need to trip more than one every week or two. I don't take mushrooms as a recreational drug, like I do when I smoke bud. I take them to heal my soul, and make me see the beauty behind everyday things. It makes me appreciate everything that I look at just that much more.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Peteyboy
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Mushierage]
#23621192 - 09/07/16 08:46 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mushierage said: Tolerance is a big one for me. If I trip, I gotta wait a least one entire week before I can dose again. But I generally don't need to trip more than one every week or two. I don't take mushrooms as a recreational drug, like I do when I smoke bud. I take them to heal my soul, and make me see the beauty behind everyday things. It makes me appreciate everything that I look at just that much more.
 I fall into this category %100
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Mad Season]
#23621480 - 09/07/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: ive eaten mushies i hid in my shoe for 10 hours while at ozzfest for maiden/sabbath they were not cracker dry but more like stale marshmellows.

that cracked me up.
Quote:
Mad Season said:
Quote:
lovelaughlibs said: Expectations and placebo can be a huge part of trips, if you expect dry mushrooms to give a shitty experience then they're much more likely to.
This.
MS means every mushroom is different, so it could be genetic. Also tolerances don't actually reset until a few weeks at least so it could be tolerance related, and lastly mindset. this isn't just seen with psychedelics.. one day you can down 8 beers like it's nothing, and then another day you're done at 2. The drug didn't change, you did.
Also IME 6-8 hours of dehydrator isn't enough to dry. I do 24 hours just in case. Over drying does nothing, and actually has been better. If they aren't dry, storing them will also lower potency. So this could be a storage issue.
IME with clones, properly drying them out has had no noticeable potency difference from fresh to dry.
This. I especially agree with the drying time issue. If you didn't dry them properly, they would have lost at least some potency, depending on how long you leave them sitting.
I had my first PE harvest go completely bunk after just a week. I made the mistake of believing that fan drying was enough. They don't have to be completely rubbery to lose potency as well, even a low amount of moisture is enough to oxidize actives, although more slowly.
A lot of people believe that the heat from a dehydrator will de-activate the enzymes from breaking down the mushroom (and the actives with it), so a dry shroom that was dried using heat should in theory have the exact same amount of actives that it did at harvest. Any difference there could be between fresh and dry in this case would be so minute that it would be impossible to detect by simply tripping with them.
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mushboy
modboy



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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Peteyboy]
#23621492 - 09/07/16 10:39 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Peteyboy said:
Quote:
Mushierage said: Tolerance is a big one for me. If I trip, I gotta wait a least one entire week before I can dose again. But I generally don't need to trip more than one every week or two. I don't take mushrooms as a recreational drug, like I do when I smoke bud. I take them to heal my soul, and make me see the beauty behind everyday things. It makes me appreciate everything that I look at just that much more.
 I fall into this category %100
1 billion %. ive found taking shrooms more than twice a week.. even twice a month kinda fucks with me. it was a big reason why i stopped growing back in mid 2000s. i felt i wasnt respecting the mush. and the mush wasnt happy when i treated them as a recreation.
anywhoo wet sucks.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



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Well psilocin is still so unstable that it's really not gonna be surviving the drying process no matter how you do it.. at least that's how I understood it. There is a necessary small degree of potency loss that comes with drying them in any manner at all.
I find that when mushrooms are done growing is never when I feel like eating them, so I very rarely try them fresh. But 1g dry of my best stock will still bring on CEVs and some light OEVs.
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Mushierage
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Inocuole]
#23621498 - 09/07/16 10:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I agree. You're gonna have potency loss no matter what you do. If you want the full effect, eat them fresh.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Inocuole
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Mushierage]
#23621516 - 09/07/16 10:46 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you happened to be working with genetics with very little psilocin and tons of psilocybin however.. then you could indeed plausibly retain all of the potency.
I don't really think the two actives have different effects though, I've always understood psilocybin to be like time-release psilocin. Might be why people think it's got less intense effects. Nothing eating more won't fix IMO.
I feel like baeocystin is probably the outlier that can change the flavor of a trip slightly.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Inocuole]
#23621540 - 09/07/16 10:51 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Isn't psilcin the one that the body can't use? I may have it backwards but I do know that the body has to break down one active into the other before it can use it.
At any rate, the difference will be too minute to notice a difference simply by tripping on it. If you were counting the actives with high tech gizmos it's one thing. There won't be the difference that OP is explaining though.
He's also comparing with an MS grow, which is totally inaccurate at best.
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Inocuole
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Psilocybin is the one the body has to break down into psilocin, which is the part we actually enjoy.
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Supalemonhaze
Spore syringe hater.



Registered: 10/02/15
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Inocuole]
#23621554 - 09/07/16 10:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I see, I always mix those up.
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Peteyboy
SpaceWalker



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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Inocuole]
#23621722 - 09/07/16 11:44 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Woodlovers have the baeocystin...probably why they are a different experience as opposed to cubes. That and twice the alkaloids content lol.
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Inocuole
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Peteyboy]
#23621726 - 09/07/16 11:44 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Cubes can have it too, I'm sure it varies like anything else genetically.
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Peteyboy
SpaceWalker



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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Inocuole]
#23621794 - 09/07/16 12:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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That's pretty cool and news to me! Any particular type of cube?
Edited by Peteyboy (09/07/16 12:10 PM)
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Peteyboy]
#23621810 - 09/07/16 12:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Not that I know of. Someone might've said something about green bruising but I think it was hypothetical.
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Peteyboy
SpaceWalker



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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Inocuole]
#23621823 - 09/07/16 12:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Cool, I'll do some searching would love to experience the baeo twist!
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AgarStudent
Noob


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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Peteyboy]
#23624911 - 09/08/16 07:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey I don't suppose you might know how p. Mexicana would differ in potency from cubes? There wasn't much in the literature about it? I had some that had not started to form stones yet and was thinking of poaching them early for a fruit?
-------------------- Why reinvent the wheel when someone here has already done the science?
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tump
ban the undead



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The fruit is less potent then stones and one of weaker cubes. If you like stone making you should do the smart thing. While your first jar bacth of stones is waiting and forming fruit two of those jars. Make as many spore prints of them as you can. Trade some of the prints for other cubes on here. And start agar work on one of your prints. Once you got 30 or so clean plates start mass production of stones.
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AgarStudent
Noob


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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: tump]
#23628179 - 09/09/16 06:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks Tump 
Your saying the Mexican fruits are more potent than cube fruits by mass? Also you mean to set the stones growing with agar wedges after I have 30 or so clean plates obtained from my own prints rather than using the culture that was used to generate the print?
-------------------- Why reinvent the wheel when someone here has already done the science?
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tump
ban the undead



Registered: 03/17/16
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No mexican fruit are less potent by dry weight then cubes but they are cubes. Im saying the stones by dried weight are better and more potent then there fruit. The reason to start over form print is so simple. New gens will more then likely produce stones over time. But the stones form because stress is happing to myc. One is age, bacteria, temp changes. If you were to take out a stone now and place in agar the recovery time will be longer then starting again form new. Agar is cheap but every open to a jar or any container is a risk for contams . i once try to produce stones is large numbers and try cloning. Ever cleanly as possible i lost more then half the clone hars to black molds. In all honestly if you have the space doing grain to grain tranfers in spawn bags is the way to go. Just make 10 master spawn jars with li then 100 new ja. Through grain to grai. Transfer. Then 100 5 quart spawn bags. Let age 6 to 8 months. Magic stone finder time.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: tump]
#23631955 - 09/10/16 11:02 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
tump said: No mexican fruit are less potent by dry weight then cubes but they are cubes.
.... What.
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker



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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Inocuole]
#23631961 - 09/10/16 11:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said:
Quote:
tump said: No mexican fruit are less potent by dry weight then cubes but they are cubes.
.... What.
Wtf what. Exactly what I was thinking.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Peteyboy
SpaceWalker



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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Mushierage]
#23632015 - 09/10/16 11:14 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Mushierage said:
Quote:
Inocuole said:
Quote:
tump said: No mexican fruit are less potent by dry weight then cubes but they are cubes.
.... What.
Wtf what. Exactly what I was thinking.
?????? ummmmm....
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AgarStudent
Noob


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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Peteyboy]
#23633742 - 09/10/16 08:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Alright, thanks for the detail . I never thought new genetics could have such an impact, but I can give it a go, why not  Tump - were you using a laminar flow hood? Your contam rate sounds quite high? Did you ever have jars that never produced stones at all?
-------------------- Why reinvent the wheel when someone here has already done the science?
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tump
ban the undead



Registered: 03/17/16
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Oh yea i had about 4500 grams of dry stones. I don't work with a hood. I have really bad hand eye coordination issues. That's the best thing about stone production is easy way to get high. If took all the grain that are contaminate and fruited them you get very little and waste money of sub cost. Grains are cheap and easy. If you know them up right then all you have to do is live you life until there done. I will warn you that shifting through grain bags is time consuming.
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AgarStudent
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: tump]
#23634199 - 09/10/16 10:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hey do you find the type of high you get is different from cubes? Also from stone strain, I.e. tamp and Mex?
-------------------- Why reinvent the wheel when someone here has already done the science?
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happyherb
Stranger
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Some good info here
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie


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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: happyherb]
#23634306 - 09/10/16 10:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Too be honest I get more of an upset stomach off fresh with a bit of a strange taste/feeling but dry I definitely heave more smoking and barf in my mouth haha and potency IDK cause dry I usually eat atleast 5 grams or more while fresh I've ate only 30 something at most but I have ate as little as 2 grams wet and got a body fry from my pe the little guy was growing on the wall of my mono ... but I can handle dry better cause fresh has way too much water which grosses me out chewing them up
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Peteyboy
SpaceWalker



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Never tried them wet yet, but dried and ground up then Inocuole's tea tek, takes the terrible flavor and intestinal discomfort out of the equation. AND IMHO makes it way intense. I suggest everyone try it out. It will be your go to method for dosing, no doubt about it.
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/20712101
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker



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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Peteyboy]
#23635320 - 09/11/16 10:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I suggest everyone to try the lemon tek with fresh at least once. It is....not pleasant... But I'm telling you, the come up and the buzz afterward is immense. Makes my whole body feel like one big constant 3 hour long orgasm, it's magical.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Peteyboy
SpaceWalker



Registered: 06/21/16
Posts: 2,848
Loc: Trumperica!
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Mushierage]
#23635375 - 09/11/16 11:13 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well I'm sold, I'll be doing the lemon tek with fresh PE next weekend per Mushie's suggestion!
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker



Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Peteyboy]
#23635380 - 09/11/16 11:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Let me know how it goes bro!
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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Peteyboy
SpaceWalker



Registered: 06/21/16
Posts: 2,848
Loc: Trumperica!
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Mushierage]
#23635491 - 09/11/16 11:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ohhhh I will for sure! Should be quite an experience!
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