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OfflineAgarStudent
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Fresh vs Dried Cubes
    #23614318 - 09/05/16 10:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Okay, so I have done a comparison of fresh vs dried.  I am sure that it has been done before, but here are some issues -

The fresh - No complaints at all, great for a party, awesome effects.
Wow - it turns a plain carpet into a dancing textured carpet! cool!

The dry - Hmm pales by comparison.  You grind it, mix it up and you feel a bit sick, but the effect is much more subtle and kinda crappy.  It is like you stare at the tree and have to wait and be patient for the bark to slide down...

It is like the fresh is about 4-5 times more potent and you don't have to down as much and it seems a bit less taxing on the body, lesser hangover.

Has anyone else had this experience?  Is dried normally crap for cubes?
My temperature setting is about 46C or 115F and it takes a good six or eight hours to get them cracker dry...

Thanks


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Offlinexzylocybin
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23614349 - 09/05/16 10:35 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

did you take the same amount by weight during each test? what about other substances? How long before each test did you eat food? What were the two respective set and settings? were they all closed caps picked at the same time in the growth cycle?


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OfflineAgarStudent
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: xzylocybin]
    #23614370 - 09/05/16 10:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Well, I would have fasted as always and picked just after the cap opened.
I also got the feedback from a friend who confirmed the same info.
How much actives do you think you lose on dehydration and do you think it might be too hot?


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OfflineLeeHarvOz
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: xzylocybin]
    #23614374 - 09/05/16 10:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

fresh cubes fuck my stomach up. they give me really uncomfortable gastrointestinal pain and nausea that is impossible to ignore and tends to ruin the trip.  i've never experienced any discomfort from dried cubes.


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InvisiblemushboyMDiscord
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: xzylocybin]
    #23614387 - 09/05/16 10:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Ive eaten fresh and upset my tummy big time. and they tasted like shit. -bad time

ive eaten mushies i hid in my shoe for 10 hours while at ozzfest for maiden/sabbath
they were not cracker dry but more like stale marshmellows. 7g of insanity but life changing event in my life.

ive dried mushies ontop of an old computer monitor for months. - all worked great. only complaints i got were people saying they didnt think they would trip so hard.

i find dry to be A+
wet was nasty and straight gross

point being... to each there own.


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OfflineAgarStudent
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: LeeHarvOz]
    #23614391 - 09/05/16 10:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Do you find cyans are any cleaner and not as harsh on your system?


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Invisiblegive.more
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23614509 - 09/05/16 11:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I like the experience of fresh better, but cracker dry tend to make my tummy happier.  Always eat what's best for you :smile:


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: give.more]
    #23614566 - 09/05/16 11:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I find the experience of fresh to be better almost universally (probably because of the higher psilocin content, which degrades as it dries).  But unless I mix the cubes with something else, I can't even stand the taste of them anymore and eating fresh seriously burns my stomach up to the point of discomfort.  I just eat them dry or make a drink out of them.


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Offlinelovelaughlibs
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: give.more]
    #23614568 - 09/05/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Expectations and placebo can be a huge part of trips, if you expect dry mushrooms to give a shitty experience then they're much more likely to.


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OfflineAgarStudent
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: lovelaughlibs]
    #23615745 - 09/05/16 06:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Okay - Thanks guys.

In relations to the key differences in strength -
The psilocin is degraded in air, due to oxididation, but only the psylocybin remains in the dried and this explains the slightly weaker experience going from a fresh to a dry shroom?
The temperature is not so much of an issue from what the forum says.


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OfflineTestSubject420247

Registered: 09/06/16
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes *DELETED* [Re: AgarStudent]
    #23620230 - 09/06/16 10:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Post deleted by TestSubject420247

Reason for deletion: bye


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: TestSubject420247] * 2
    #23620314 - 09/06/16 11:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

TestSubject420247 said:
I do personally believe heat can cause degradation in potency but not always enough to be substantial.



:dafuq: well your opinion is wrong.

Psilocin has a melting point of 185-195°C (well above 350°F) and psilocybin has a melting point of 173-176°C (around 340°F)

Not only that but the actual oxidation of psilocin as shown here:

The reducing agent is the enzymes in the fresh fruit body. These enzymes get denatured at temps above 140°F, and stop doing oxidation. Well below the melting point of 340°F.

A dehydrator takes 12-24 hours to dehydrate completely. If you set it above 140, you're denaturing the enzymes, and it'll never actually reach a temperature that degrades psilocin. This is the best method at retaining potency.

TL;dr dry with a dehydrator.


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Invisiblemorty422
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Mad Season]
    #23620431 - 09/07/16 12:00 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Quote:

TestSubject420247 said:
I do personally believe heat can cause degradation in potency but not always enough to be substantial.



:dafuq: well your opinion is wrong.

Psilocin has a melting point of 185-195°C (well above 350°F) and psilocybin has a melting point of 173-176°C (around 340°F)

Not only that but the actual oxidation of psilocin as shown here:

The reducing agent is the enzymes in the fresh fruit body. These enzymes get denatured at temps above 140°F, and stop doing oxidation. Well below the melting point of 340°F.

A dehydrator takes 12-24 hours to dehydrate completely. If you set it above 140, you're denaturing the enzymes, and it'll never actually reach a temperature that degrades psilocin. This is the best method at retaining potency.

TL;dr dry with a dehydrator.




I like :whathesaid:....


Heat does NOTHING to any active compounds found in mushrooms as long as you are not using a blow torch.

:cheers:


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Offlinejmullins1138
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: morty422]
    #23620498 - 09/07/16 12:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If I have a dehydrator that doesn't have temperature settings should I remove the heating coil?

Edit: Nevermind just researched the model 145 degrees Fahrenheit. So I should be good.


Edited by jmullins1138 (09/07/16 12:45 AM)


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Offlinetump
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: jmullins1138]
    #23620517 - 09/07/16 01:00 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Wet is horribly the top 7 worsts ways to spend 30 mins. Best and only way i can stand wet orange juice cooking the fresh mushrooms for ten mins then strain it . lets it cool to right above room temperature. It takes like magic and vomit. This is almost the only way for me to take those 20 to 120 dry gram trips. Fresh ish must different in the tripping


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OfflineAgarStudent
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: tump]
    #23620938 - 09/07/16 06:48 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Awesome suggestions :wink:. Heat may not be affecting it, but it could more than likely be oxidation of the psilocin.  It would be really good to get more of a handle on the chemistry.


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InvisibleMad Season
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: lovelaughlibs]
    #23621150 - 09/07/16 08:24 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

lovelaughlibs said:
Expectations and placebo can be a huge part of trips, if you expect dry mushrooms to give a shitty experience then they're much more likely to.



This.

MS means every mushroom is different, so it could be genetic. Also tolerances don't actually reset until a few weeks at least so it could be tolerance related, and lastly mindset. this isn't just seen with psychedelics.. one day you can down 8 beers like it's nothing, and then another day you're done at 2. The drug didn't change, you did.

Also IME 6-8 hours of dehydrator isn't enough to dry. I do 24 hours just in case. Over drying does nothing, and actually has been better. If they aren't dry, storing them will also lower potency. So this could be a storage issue.

IME with clones, properly drying them out has had no noticeable potency difference from fresh to dry.


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contam and car window art
How to shroomery like a pro! (Seriously, everyone read this!)
Improve your sterile techniques! (A comprehensive guide to agar)
Links upon links of literally EVERYTHING UP TO DATE

AMU Q&A
No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Mad Season]
    #23621160 - 09/07/16 08:27 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Tolerance is a big one for me.  If I trip, I gotta wait a least one entire week before I can dose again.  But I generally don't need to trip more than one every week or two.  I don't take mushrooms as a recreational drug, like I do when I smoke bud.  I take them to heal my soul, and make me see the beauty behind everyday things.  It makes me appreciate everything that I look at just that much more.


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OfflinePeteyboy
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Mushierage]
    #23621192 - 09/07/16 08:46 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Mushierage said:
Tolerance is a big one for me.  If I trip, I gotta wait a least one entire week before I can dose again.  But I generally don't need to trip more than one every week or two.  I don't take mushrooms as a recreational drug, like I do when I smoke bud.  I take them to heal my soul, and make me see the beauty behind everyday things.  It makes me appreciate everything that I look at just that much more.



:whathesaid:
I fall into this category %100


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InvisibleSupalemonhaze
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Re: Fresh vs Dried Cubes [Re: Mad Season]
    #23621480 - 09/07/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

mushboy said:
ive eaten mushies i hid in my shoe for 10 hours while at ozzfest for maiden/sabbath
they were not cracker dry but more like stale marshmellows.




:uhhnothanks:

:lol: that cracked me up.

Quote:

Mad Season said:
Quote:

lovelaughlibs said:
Expectations and placebo can be a huge part of trips, if you expect dry mushrooms to give a shitty experience then they're much more likely to.



This.

MS means every mushroom is different, so it could be genetic. Also tolerances don't actually reset until a few weeks at least so it could be tolerance related, and lastly mindset. this isn't just seen with psychedelics.. one day you can down 8 beers like it's nothing, and then another day you're done at 2. The drug didn't change, you did.

Also IME 6-8 hours of dehydrator isn't enough to dry. I do 24 hours just in case. Over drying does nothing, and actually has been better. If they aren't dry, storing them will also lower potency. So this could be a storage issue.

IME with clones, properly drying them out has had no noticeable potency difference from fresh to dry.




This. I especially agree with the drying time issue. If you didn't dry them properly, they would have lost at least some potency, depending on how long you leave them sitting.

I had my first PE harvest go completely bunk after just a week. I made the mistake of believing that fan drying was enough. They don't have to be completely rubbery to lose potency as well, even a low amount of moisture is enough to oxidize actives, although more slowly.

A lot of people believe that the heat from a dehydrator will de-activate the enzymes from breaking down the mushroom (and the actives with it), so a dry shroom that was dried using heat should in theory have the exact same amount of actives that it did at harvest. Any difference there could be between fresh and dry in this case would be so minute that it would be impossible to detect by simply tripping with them.


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