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Crystal G



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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Apostle]
#23613381 - 09/05/16 12:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Apostle said: Because she wasn't muslim and that is part of the definition of Hijab. There are also stipulations within the definition as to when it is usually worn and those don't apply to Mary either.
No, it's NOT. As I already stated previously, the hijab was being worn in pre-Arabic societies long BEFORE Islam ever existed. It has nothing to do with Islam. Hence why you see the Virgin Mary wearing a headscarf.
Quote:
is a veil traditionally worn by Muslim women in the presence of adult males outside of their immediate family
That doesn't say it's only ever been worn by Muslim women. It says it's traditionally a thing Muslims do.
So, explain how it's only a Muslim thing when the wearing of hijab has long existed before Islam ever existed.
Quote:
elite women in ancient Greco-Roman, pre-Islamic Iranian, and Byzantine societies practiced veiling. It was not until the reign of the Safavids in the Ottoman Empire, an area that extends through the Middle East and North Africa, in the 16th century that the veil emerged as a symbol of social status among Muslims. Since the 19th century Muslims have embraced veiling as a cultural practice rather than simply an Islamic practice (Hood far, 2003).
The Q'uran never actually says women should wear the hijab. It only makes references and tell stories of Mohammed's wives who wore the hijab at that time. The Q'uran never explicitly says women should wear the hijab, only that they should cover their bosoms.
If you look up "history of hijab," you can see that it has nothing to do with Islam:
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The tradition of veiling and seclusion (known together as hijab) was introduced into Arabia long before Muhammad, primarily through Arab contacts with Syria and Iran , where the hijab was a sign of social status. After all, only a woman who need not work in the fields could afford to remain secluded and veiled.
https://alaiwah.wordpress.com/islam-the-origin-of-hijab/
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Apostle
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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Crystal G]
#23613402 - 09/05/16 12:46 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well right off the bat you are denying what the definition of Hijab is. If you accept it though, then you will know that Mary didn't wear one.
we can do like we did last thread, where you claimed people don't upload random videos to the internet, that's fine with me. Hopefully, like then, you'll realize after 3 pages that words exist for a reason and that what mary wore does not fit the definition of a hijab. i'll have to take you up on it tomorrow morning though. or later this morning i guess. i'm going to bed.
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Crystal G



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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Apostle]
#23613419 - 09/05/16 12:53 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Apostle said: Well right off the bat you are denying what the definition of Hijab is. If you accept it though, then you will know that Mary didn't wear one.
we can do like we did last thread, where you claimed people don't upload random videos to the internet, that's fine with me. Hopefully, like then, you'll realize after 3 pages that words exist for a reason and that what mary wore does not fit the definition of a hijab. i'll have to take you up on it tomorrow morning though. or later this morning i guess. i'm going to bed.
What do you think Arabs were calling the hijab before Islam ever existed? I'll give you a hint: They called it the hijab.
You're claiming it's only hijab if Muslim women wear it, which is not true.
Your own Wikipedia link even talks about pre-Islamic dating practices, and it says:
Quote:
Veiling did not originate with the advent of Islam. Statuettes depicting veiled priestesses precede all three Abrahamic religions (Christianity, Judaism, and Islam), dating back as far as 2500 BCE.[50]
It also provides pictures of a Roman statue depicting the Vestal Virgin as wearing the hijab. Her hijab looks very similar to what nuns wear.
So there you have it. Virgin Mary wore a hijab. Nuns wear hijab.

Here's the virgin Mary by comparison. If she's not wearing a hijab, what is she wearing then? A veil? A headscarf? Because that is literally the definition of hijab.
Edited by Crystal G (09/05/16 12:58 AM)
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Apostle
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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Crystal G]
#23613433 - 09/05/16 12:57 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yea right there in the place where you went to find that it says Mary wore a hijab, it says she wore a Hijab.
Too bad it's not true.
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Crystal G



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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Apostle]
#23613438 - 09/05/16 12:59 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Apostle said: Yea right there in the place where you went to find that it says Mary wore a hijab, it says she wore a Hijab.
Too bad it's not true.
You haven't answered the question. What is she wearing then, if it's not a hijab? Is it a veil? Is it a headscarf?
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Apostle
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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Apostle]
#23613443 - 09/05/16 01:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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As there are no photos of Mary nor any paintings, etc., made during the time she was alive, we have no clue what she wore. The "Hijab", however, did not come into existence until about 400-500 years after the time that she lived. So for her to have worn it she would have had to have invented the Hijab. Something that would surely have gotten a mention in history. The paintings that depict her in a "hijb" like garment(still not a hijab by definition) come from the Middle Ages. Long after she lived and after the garment had been created.
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Crystal G



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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Apostle]
#23613448 - 09/05/16 01:06 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Apostle said: The "Hijab", however, did not come into existence until about 400-500 years after the time that she lived. So for her to have worn it she would have had to have invented the Hijab.
Uhmmmm, no it didn't. The practice existed in 2500 BC. Women in ancient Mesopotamia and the ancient Persian empire were wearing it.
Furthermore, the Bible itself makes references to head coverings.
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Apostle
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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Crystal G]
#23613451 - 09/05/16 01:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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the wearing of the head covering was not common in the time when Mary lived. It became popular between the time of Jesus and the time of Muhammad, which is why Muhammad taught it, and Jesus did not. The images of Mary wearing a covering coming from the middle ages and the time of the Crusades, when there were few Jewish still living in the Holy Land, and the Christians going there only meet Muslims woman who wore the hijab, so they incorrectly carried the hijab back with them and applied it to Jewish women of the time of Jesus. At the time of Jesus, as today, it was the men who covered their heads during prayer.
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Crystal G



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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Apostle]
#23613470 - 09/05/16 01:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Is that why nuns wear veils over their heads too? Because it was unpopular in Christianity? Because Christians wear many different types of veils. There's the tabernacle veil, the lenten veil, and the chancel veil (which was popular during the Byzantine era).
Traditionally, in Christianity, women were enjoined to cover their heads in church. This practice is based on 1 Corinthians 11:4–16, where St. Paul writes:
Any man who prays or prophesies with his head covered brings shame upon his head. But any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled brings shame upon her head, for it is one and the same thing as if she had had her head shaved. For if a woman does not have her head veiled, she may as well have her hair cut off. But if it is shameful for a woman to have her hair cut off or her head shaved, then she should wear a veil. A man, on the other hand, should not cover his head, because he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man. For man did not come from woman, but woman from man; nor was man created for woman, but woman for man; for this reason a woman should have a sign of authority on her head, because of the angels.
Your own link that you posted states this:
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Elite women in ancient Mesopotamia and in the Byzantine, Greek, and Persian empires wore the veil as a sign of respectability and high status.[51] In ancient Mesopotamia, Assyria had explicit sumptuary laws detailing which women must veil and which women must not, depending upon the woman's class, rank, and occupation in society.[51] Female slaves and prostitutes were forbidden to veil and faced harsh penalties if they did so.[13] Veiling was thus not only a marker of aristocratic rank, but also served to "differentiate between 'respectable' women and those who were publicly available".[51][13]
Strict seclusion and the veiling of matrons were also customary in ancient Greece. Between 550 and 323 B.C.E, prior to Christianity, respectable women in classical Greek society were expected to seclude themselves and wear clothing that concealed them from the eyes of strange men.[52]
Here's an ancient Greek woman wearing a headscarf
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Crystal G



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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Crystal G]
#23613473 - 09/05/16 01:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Now you're backtracking and claiming we don't know whether Virgin Mary truly wore a veil or not. All I'm saying is, based on the depictions out there of her that exist, she wore a hijab, a veil, a headscarf, whatever you want to call it.
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twighead
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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Crystal G]
#23613475 - 09/05/16 01:23 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Apostle said: No she didn't.
Yes, she did. Have you not noticed that nuns wear a piece of cloth over their heads that is very reminiscent to the hijab?
In any case, hijab and face covering is a custom that pre-dates Islam, it existed in society long before Islamic religion came to fruition.
Look at all of Mary's pictures, she is wearing the veil.
I doubt she did (especially in such a western style)
But if christian extremism means a burning heart flask with a dagger through it on the chest of every woman I'm all for it.
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Apostle
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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Crystal G]
#23613484 - 09/05/16 01:26 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Based on the definition of Hijab, you cant possibly be right.
that was my first argument and it remains the same.
tell me crystal, how do you feel about people being able to randomly upload videos online for no particular reason?
Do you still think it is beyond the realm of possibility? because i noticed you stopped posting in that thread.
Fuckin A, Crystal.
Till tommorow, gnite.
Edited by Apostle (09/05/16 01:32 AM)
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Crystal G



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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Apostle]
#23613503 - 09/05/16 01:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Apostle said: Based on the definition of Hijab, you cant possibly be right.
that was my first argument and it remains the same.
The definition of "Hijab" means veil. Hijab, as I stated previously, is the Arabic word for veil.
Mary is therefore wearing hijab.
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specialpeopleclub


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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Crystal G]
#23613508 - 09/05/16 01:39 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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The koran isnt the only book in Islam, there is the Hadiths and Suna which detain Muhammed's life and wants. You know those countries your parents said they whipe with a certain hand? Its because that is how muhammed whiped
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Crystal G



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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: specialpeopleclub]
#23613512 - 09/05/16 01:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: The koran isnt the only book in Islam, there is the Hadiths and Suna which detain Muhammed's life and wants.
Not all Muslims practice Hadith, the reason for that is because it was written 200 years after Mohammed died, and therefore some people say it is not really based on Mohammed's word.
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Apostle
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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Crystal G]
#23613526 - 09/05/16 01:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
is a veil traditionally worn by Muslim women in the presence of adult males outside of their immediate family, which usually covers the head and chest.
That's weird, the definition of a word keeps remaining the same no matter how many times i look it up.
I guess i should just ask you directly from now on.
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specialpeopleclub


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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Crystal G]
#23613553 - 09/05/16 02:00 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
specialpeopleclub said: The koran isnt the only book in Islam, there is the Hadiths and Suna which detain Muhammed's life and wants.
Not all Muslims practice Hadith, the reason for that is because it was written 200 years after Mohammed died, and therefore some people say it is not really based on Mohammed's word.
There are several hadith of verying credability
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Crystal G



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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Apostle]
#23613560 - 09/05/16 02:04 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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That definition says it's TRADITIONALLY worn by Muslim women, because it is. In modern society that is primarily who wears the hijab.
But as we already assessed, it is not ONLY a Muslim thing. And we already assessed that the wearing of hijab existed before Islam was created.
If you look up Google Translate, you'll see that حجاب translates to veil: https://translate.google.com/#ar/en/حجاب
Seriously, I don't understand what's so difficult to understand about this.
I already proved your statement incorrect that it's only a Muslim thing. YOU YOURSELF stated that it's not just a Muslim thing since you acknowledge it existed before the days of Mohammed. So I don't even know what you're arguing about anymore.
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Apostle
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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Crystal G]
#23613563 - 09/05/16 02:06 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Nothing, i made my point. Mary didn't wear a Hijab.You can pick whatever reason suits you as to why this is true, there are plenty to choose from.
want to see some traffic ticket videos?
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Crystal G



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Re: 10-Years in Prison for Tweets Criticizing Islam!?! [Re: Apostle]
#23613581 - 09/05/16 02:17 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Apostle said: want to see some traffic ticket videos?
Yes, I waited on some traffic ticket videos that weren't educational or sexy or humorous or shocking or any of those other adjectives I listed in that thread, and I never got it. That's why the conversation died.
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