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Alonzo
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We're so intelligent
#23610389 - 09/04/16 07:12 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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We're so intelligent a species.
Why do we fight one another and not have world peace? Why?
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Kickle
Wanderer


Registered: 12/16/06
Posts: 17,856
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Alonzo]
#23610420 - 09/04/16 07:23 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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why do tectonic plates collide? to change the landscape maybe
-------------------- Why shouldn't the truth be stranger than fiction? Fiction, after all, has to make sense. -- Mark Twain
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Electric Wizard21
Master


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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Alonzo]
#23610879 - 09/04/16 10:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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We are not intelligent. We don't even know how to treat other humans.
-------------------- I'm sick of all you hypocrites Holding me at bay And I don't need your sympathy To get me through the day Seasons change and so can I Hold on boy, no time to cry Untie these strings, I'm climbing down I won't let them push me away
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Kinko
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Quote:
Electric Wizard21 said: We are not intelligent. We don't even know how to treat other humans.
This.... A small percentage of the human population are actually somewhat smart.... The vast majority are people who think they are special or smart when in reality they are stupid.
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Electric Wizard21
Master


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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Kinko]
#23610896 - 09/04/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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The kind people are actual humans. Even the so called smart people are arrogant and nasty.
Look at the government. They are meant to be smart, yet they continue to exploit themselves as hypocrites.
-------------------- I'm sick of all you hypocrites Holding me at bay And I don't need your sympathy To get me through the day Seasons change and so can I Hold on boy, no time to cry Untie these strings, I'm climbing down I won't let them push me away
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Alonzo] 1
#23610917 - 09/04/16 10:36 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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The talking ape with opposable thumbs.
We're smart enough to get ourselves into trouble, but not smart enough to get ourselves out.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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I think it's due to the fact that, as 'nations' or 'cultures' or 'religions' or whatever division is used to separate us into groups leads to said groups acting like fucking 5 year olds in the school playground.
I know a lot of very wise and mature humans personally, but as a species, we're fucking idiots.
Misanthropy FTW.
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Nail on the head.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
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Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Idiots are fragile.
Step up and lead the way.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,568
Loc: Utah
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Alonzo]
#23611635 - 09/04/16 02:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you lived in a shitty corrupt as fuck third world country, but grew up rich as fuck in that country, and then later on you had enough money to buy yourself the election and become president, would you do it? Keep in mind, you were raised rich in a corrupt as fuck country, so your moral compass might not be great.
The opportunity to have absolute power is such a huge attraction that most people even with noble goals ultimately fall victim to it. There have been tons of movements that started out for freedom and democracy and helping people that ended up with dictators because the attraction of absolute power is so huge.
But then some other dude with absolute power decides he wants to expand his territory and have even more power, so he attacks you for it. Then maybe you decide you need more territory in order to be safer from the dude who attacked you, so you attack a country, and on and on.
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Duncan Rowhl
Fiducia Christum



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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Alonzo]
#23612149 - 09/04/16 05:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alonzo said: We're so intelligent a species.
Why do we fight one another and not have world peace? Why? 
Misconception that power is material.
Intelligence is knowing and utilising unlimited intelligence - spirit driven.
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Crumist
Stranger


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We are intelligent compared to what? Certainly not put up against the Godhead. And who said intelligence and kindness go together? Chimps are nasty fuckers
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: nooneman]
#23613042 - 09/04/16 10:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said:
The opportunity to have absolute power is such a huge attraction that most people even with noble goals ultimately fall victim to it.
"most" people........ who are conditioned to see this as the path to happiness
The idea of "absolute power" is actually dependence and slavery to an illusion.
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Alonzo]
#23613565 - 09/05/16 02:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alonzo said: We're so intelligent a species.
Why do we fight one another and not have world peace? Why? 
ever seen sibling rivalry, when one child has been the only child for say 4 or more years and a new baby arrives -- not pretty
sorry but seems to me the idea that intelligence runs the show is actually not intelligent itself
what runs the show?, you ask
genes, hormones, instinct, emotion, fear, pain, internal conflict, and personal past conditioning, and cultural conditioning, and ego
so called intelligence is the tippy tip of the iceberg that we like to imagine is our proud possession but its more like a little rancid perfume an old unwashed hag puts on to hide her stink
chimps hunt other monkeys rip them apart eat them raw and fight over them - what's 'intelligence' got to do with peace? Absolutely nothing!
the purpose of meditation is not to raise intelligence. It works on a different level.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Does a tree question its existence. Are we superior because we do. A life yet no feelings. As important as me and as you.
Why dont they destroy each other. As we feel that we must. The struggle born of greed. It's symbiosis not lust.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: pineninja]
#23613752 - 09/05/16 04:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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hatred, greed, and delusion, are noted as the 3 roots of bad karma.
they are complex responses that can only be created by intelligence, but intelligence is not the cause of them, they are dysfunctions of raw intelligence, and if we were to distill them all to one thing it would be delusion, or basically error, error, error...
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_ 🧠 _
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
but its more like a little rancid perfume an old unwashed hag puts on to hide her stink
Your gf does not appreciate you talking about her in this manner!
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nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
Last seen: 7 years, 21 days
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: pineninja] 1
#23614031 - 09/05/16 08:04 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said: Does a tree question its existence. Are we superior because we do. A life yet no feelings. As important as me and as you.
Why dont they destroy each other. As we feel that we must. The struggle born of greed. It's symbiosis not lust.
Very nice
--------------------
The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
but its more like a little rancid perfume an old unwashed hag puts on to hide her stink
Your gf does not appreciate you talking about her in this manner! 
exactly, this is how some folks try and start fights
nothing better to do ...
the usual monkey shenanigans ...
and the funny thing is there is another thread about 'intelligent design'
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nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
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Leads one to ponder if extra intelligence is wise sometimes. Look what it has done for us. Or maybe I'm being too short sided, and should our situation as a stepping stone in gaining wisdom of existing with this intelligence, and having a goal of sustainability.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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zzripz
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Alonzo]
#23614204 - 09/05/16 09:33 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alonzo said: We're so intelligent a species.
Why do we fight one another and not have world peace? Why? 
depends what you mean by intelligence?
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Alonzo
Stranger

Registered: 08/06/16
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: zzripz]
#23614759 - 09/05/16 01:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Maybe the reason we don't have world peace yet is because we have people who don't want world peace. Maybe ending all war and strife is not a no. 1 priority for them or something. Our intelligence is our greatest gift, what sets us apart from other animals. Knowing we don't have to kill or deliberately inflict suffering on any person of our race, why then do people do it? It just doesn't make sense to me.
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nuentoter
conduit



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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Alonzo]
#23614989 - 09/05/16 02:32 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Intelligence is not spread uniformly across us, the man with less gains envy and greed over the next, the man with more sees the next as exploitable.
Sloth & greed
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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Jokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: pineninja]
#23615909 - 09/05/16 07:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
pineninja said: Does a tree question its existence. Are we superior because we do. A life yet no feelings. As important as me and as you.
Why dont they destroy each other.
Actually they kinda do. Watch David Attenborough's 'The private life of plants' for elucidation.
Also, have you seen how aggressively coral attacks its neighbouring coral?
-------------------- Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not. --Jac O'keeffe
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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If they were ultimately successful in their endeavors there would only be one type of coral....inately they seem to know without each other they could not exist......symbiosis.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: pineninja]
#23616637 - 09/05/16 11:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Humans still come in a variety of shapes, sizes, and colors despite plenty of animosity over the years and a couple of earnest attempts to get rid of the others.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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beforethedawn
Registered: 06/19/16
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Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Crumist]
#23616653 - 09/05/16 11:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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We are all the same being.
Ego is a kind of insanity.
Because we are all the same being, there's only You to make a difference, to fix it.
-------------------- Hostile humankind Can't you see you're fucking blind?
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AuroraBorealis88
Stranger


Registered: 05/06/16
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Alonzo]
#23635599 - 09/11/16 12:32 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alonzo said: Why do we fight one another and not have world peace? Why? 
Lack of boundary dissolution
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Quote:
AuroraBorealis88 said:
Quote:
Alonzo said: Why do we fight one another and not have world peace? Why? 
Lack of boundary dissolution
could put shoe on other foot
why should we have world peace?
over 50 % of species parasitic
most of nature is totally brutal, - don't believe me?
then see for example:
http://winace.courageunfettered.com/designed_organisms/
or
Mother Nature Is Trying to Kill You: A Lively Tour Through the Dark Side of the Natural World Reprint Edition by Dan Riskin Ph.D. (Author)
or
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=brain+controlling+parasites
And humans much as it may upset their view of themselves are no different from the rest of it, (with the exception, loosely speaking of a few "saint" and Stephen Hawking types). Relatively small demographics tread the paths of, meditation, psychedlics, & shamanism, but how many realize a permanent state of unshakeable compassion and deep insight?
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nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
Last seen: 7 years, 21 days
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
Quote:
AuroraBorealis88 said:
Quote:
Alonzo said: Why do we fight one another and not have world peace? Why? 
Lack of boundary dissolution
could put shoe on other foot
why should we have world peace?
over 50 % of species parasitic
most of nature is totally brutal, - don't believe me?
then see for example:
http://winace.courageunfettered.com/designed_organisms/
or
Mother Nature Is Trying to Kill You: A Lively Tour Through the Dark Side of the Natural World Reprint Edition by Dan Riskin Ph.D. (Author)
or
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=brain+controlling+parasites
And humans much as it may upset their view of themselves are no different from the rest of it, (with the exception, loosely speaking of a few "saint" and Stephen Hawking types). Relatively small demographics tread the paths of, meditation, psychedlics, & shamanism, but how many realize a permanent state of unshakeable compassion and deep insight?
How is Stephen Hawkins (seeing him as an example of an apex male in one of the defining traits of our species) different than one of the fastest peregrine falcons? Or the best camouflaged Underwing moth (we have then here and they are beautiful in flight, Crazy natural camo)?
Just animals doing what we do like any other, survive and thrive. The way we do it though, has been fucking shit up at an alarmingly increasing rate and ever increasing scope. Severity of action and desensitization through cultural and social pressure and simple conditioning from mentalities that stand out from the crowd, unfortunately the loud peaceful types are far outnumbered by the loud upset/indifferent/ineffectual/whatever is across their ass today is everyone else's problem, kinda people. This creates our experience of what people are like much too often.
This says something about our collective. Not something to be proud of that things are fuckin up and it's all our fault we allow it and not our fault because we didn't start it, we were handed it, and fumbled. It sucks.
Does this mean though that we shouldn't try something like peace? Because what we've been doing isn't peaceful, and look where we are and what we're doing man. Could it really be that bad?
And when I say peace, I don't mean this weird utopia fantasy shit, I mean simply finding a sustainable rhythm in our environment. This will only happen over time beyond my life, but why not have a goal of not fucking up a whole bunch of people or scorching the earth?
--------------------
The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: nuentoter]
#23637184 - 09/11/16 09:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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you may have misunderstood me I have nothing against being peaceful but I do not expect the world to be peaceful, free of suffering, etc. such an expectation seems unrealistic, and therefore adds to suffering, but that doesn't mean we have an excuse for being nasty, imo; on the contrary being kind seems appropriate.
I was only reiterating... just a simple reminder of a well known point, as some seem to forget it.
the world is as it is, if one makes a big deal of not liking the way it is, then what is - is - personal emotional upset, which would not seem to help one to be an effective agent of intelligent change. If I ever need surgery, I hope the doctor, has an unemotional detached attitude.
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nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
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I did not misunderstand, I agree, but anytime I find myself getting firmly planted on any idea, I question. I question myself, my knowledge, my source, my feelings, others reactions, their feelings, their knowledge, their source, and so on and on, so few answers in life but so many exciting and intriguing questions, and paths that follow.
--------------------
The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
Last seen: 7 years, 21 days
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: nuentoter]
#23637318 - 09/11/16 10:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Too often I see people consider themselves as above animal. We are animal.
But
I do not understand why this is seen as underwhelming or negative, which happens often as well. We are each special. Individual and unique. But as a whole there is not anymore difference to be seen than between individual ants on a large hill.
I find it incredibly reassuring that we are animals, another beast. We fit in then. It means we do have a place, we were never banished from Eden (metaphorical reference only, not a religious belief), we simply, collectively, chose. This means if we have a place, we can belong, we can coexist, and we can choose. We can choose not to be the parasite. We can choose whatever role we want (closest I've come to answering op so far). That ability to choose, makes us intelligent, still does not make our intelligent decision (survive and thrive) a wise one, especially in the long run.
Very short-sighted.
We are kakapo.
--------------------
The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: nuentoter]
#23637988 - 09/12/16 08:53 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
nuentoter said: ... but anytime I find myself getting firmly planted on any idea, I question. I question myself, my knowledge, my source, my feelings, others reactions, their feelings, their knowledge, their source, and so on and on, so few answers in life but so many exciting and intriguing questions, and paths that follow.
I agree, a questioning/wondering attitude makes/keeps life interesting. So many want a one size fits all answer, where as what is true today, or in one circumstance, or from one view point may not be so tomorrow, or in another circumstance, or from another point of view.
A well known person who tried new things was Picasso. He seems to have enjoyed himself.
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Love_spirit
Circle Of Power



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Posts: 1,208
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Alonzo]
#23637995 - 09/12/16 09:00 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Intelligent compared to what?
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RJ Tubs 202


Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
Loc: USA
Last seen: 16 hours, 58 minutes
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Quote:
laughingdog said:
I was only reiterating...
just a simple reminder of a well known point,
as some seem to forget it.
the world is as it is,
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funkymonk22
In Service to the Ineffable..



Registered: 01/25/16
Posts: 469
Loc: The Big O
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i think at this stage, war is inevitable. the world is way over-populated and until we learn that every woman should only have one natural born child it will remain that way..war is necessary for us to digest ourselves..the more humans we create the more death we will have..i feel this is one reason peace cannot be achieved, although there are others as well
--------------------
  "The clouds didn't look like cotton, they didn't even look like clouds.."-Townes Van Zandt
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Quote:
funkymonk22 said: i think at this stage, war is inevitable. the world is way over-populated and until we learn that every woman should only have one natural born child it will remain that way..war is necessary for us to digest ourselves..the more humans we create the more death we will have..i feel this is one reason peace cannot be achieved, although there are others as well
I think you're probably right.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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funkymonk22
In Service to the Ineffable..



Registered: 01/25/16
Posts: 469
Loc: The Big O
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its not an original idea, ive heard similar things said somewhere..i think one of them was kathleen harrison, terence mckenna's ex wife. she is highly intelligent, she has a few good lectures on youtube
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  "The clouds didn't look like cotton, they didn't even look like clouds.."-Townes Van Zandt
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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War or atleast the notion of it may be necessary for relative peace.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: pineninja]
#23648314 - 09/15/16 06:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
War or atleast the notion of it may be necessary for relative peace.
To a large extent that is true, at least pertaining to deterrence. But with the "global village" phenomenon, it seems nationalism is growing obsolete, so where does that leave the capacity for war? But I'm sure our species is not done with war yet.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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I'm sort of not talking about the actuality of war but the fundamental necessity of evil to counter or make real, good. The percieved changes over time are really just different manifestations within the nature of human experience. Nationalism would be tribal warfare in a different time and globalism the knowledge of other. War is as intrinsic as love.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
Posts: 2,721
Last seen: 7 years, 21 days
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: pineninja]
#23648856 - 09/15/16 09:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
War or atleast the notion of it may be necessary for relative peace.
Necessary no I don't think so, but inevitable with our current situation.
Quote:
pineninja said: I'm sort of not talking about the actuality of war but the fundamental necessity of evil to counter or make real, good. The percieved changes over time are really just different manifestations within the nature of human experience. Nationalism would be tribal warfare in a different time and globalism the knowledge of other. War is as intrinsic as love.
I agree with this but don't believe war is the only outlet, like love, fear and hate can permeate deeply and slowly. It happens on a more under the radar, less confrontational, and more personal, private way, and on a large scale.
Resentment, prejudice, greed, ignorance, and the level of acceptance of these things is as alarming, if not more so, to me, than war. It is a war won without guns, but with schools, tv, the internet, advertising, pop culture, and any other mind numbing, distracting bullshit.
--------------------
The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: nuentoter]
#23648881 - 09/15/16 09:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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War is just a manifestation of those emotions inevitable and necessary. I am not condoning it nor am I not, I'm just saying that's it's a necessary evil.
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funkymonk22
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: pineninja]
#23649033 - 09/15/16 10:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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some interesting thoughts on all of this you guys:) i can only see a better future for humanity, ever since i heard t. mckenna say that the singularity was not before the big bang, but it is what is at the end of time, compelling us towards it..that's how i think of kali(the devourer, from hinduism) she is that force that draws all in and in turn, is everything. I can see humanity becoming more singular, when all the races mix to the point that we all look similar. a global humanity is to come, but as with anything born, there are the inevitable birthing pains..which i believe is what we experience as war, hate, racism and the likes...only through transcendence of the human condition can someone become kali for a moment, escape the pains, and understand..either through the psychedelic experience, meditation or the likes.
the trouble is, after one has stood before the naked truth, how does one relate that to their fellows? it seems impossible..because to try to analyze and communicate the experience it is perverted by ideals. hopefully, there is a tipping point and once 51% of people experience it, we will all understand. kinda like 100th monkey syndrome;)
sorry if i got off topic, haha...anyone have any thoughts on any of this?
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redgreenvines
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there is always some kind of war but de-escalation is intelligent.
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nuentoter
conduit



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Quote:
funkymonk22 said: some interesting thoughts on all of this you guys:) i can only see a better future for humanity, ever since i heard t. mckenna say that the singularity was not before the big bang, but it is what is at the end of time, compelling us towards it..that's how i think of kali(the devourer, from hinduism) she is that force that draws all in and in turn, is everything. I can see humanity becoming more singular, when all the races mix to the point that we all look similar. a global humanity is to come, but as with anything born, there are the inevitable birthing pains..which i believe is what we experience as war, hate, racism and the likes...only through transcendence of the human condition can someone become kali for a moment, escape the pains, and understand..either through the psychedelic experience, meditation or the likes.
the trouble is, after one has stood before the naked truth, how does one relate that to their fellows? it seems impossible..because to try to analyze and communicate the experience it is perverted by ideals. hopefully, there is a tipping point and once 51% of people experience it, we will all understand. kinda like 100th monkey syndrome;)
sorry if i got off topic, haha...anyone have any thoughts on any of this?
I see things more based on the geometry of s torus. The big baby was the point expanding away from the central point. The big freeze being on outer rim before condensing back towards center again. I could see how it is seen as returning or heading towards a singularity (or kali pulling in all existence).
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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funkymonk22
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: nuentoter]
#23651472 - 09/16/16 08:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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thats an interesting idea too? what is the geometry of torus? never heard of it, is it something i can google?
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nuentoter
conduit



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It's a donut
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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nuentoter
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: nuentoter] 1
#23654065 - 09/17/16 08:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Interesting read on geometry of space time when taken as a thought experiment.
 An example of what I was talking about. The universe would expand up and out from the centre (big bang) and at the outer most circumference would be the big freeze where outward acceleration would cease and the start collapsing back in on itself.
For myself at least i find this mental model fits well and makes a good visual mentally base curiosities and questions from. Cuz in reality no one really knows.
It also is a significant geometric shape, toroidal shapes of magnetic fields, and their interaction with other magnetic fields. Anyone with knowledge about electronics can tell you the significance of the torus in things like transformers, inductors, and antennas.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
Edited by nuentoter (09/17/16 08:25 PM)
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funkymonk22
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: nuentoter]
#23660373 - 09/19/16 11:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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it is a donut..no frosting though?
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  "The clouds didn't look like cotton, they didn't even look like clouds.."-Townes Van Zandt
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Quote:
Jokeshopbeard said: I think it's due to the fact that, as 'nations' or 'cultures' or 'religions' or whatever division is used to separate us into groups leads to said groups acting like fucking 5 year olds in the school playground.
I know a lot of very wise and mature humans personally, but as a species, we're fucking idiots.
Misanthropy FTW.
replace nation, culture,and religion, with coalition and ideology, and you'd be spot on, in my honest opinion.
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akira_akuma
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: basically error, error, error...
all forms of error in the human intellect can be attributed to the failing of tradition.
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redgreenvines
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too much expectation from tradition is an error as well; tradition can only address or encompass that which is sustained or recurrent. when something new happens tradition has to step aside or it creates error.
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akira_akuma
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that is, in my opinion, the source of 'error', termed that way.
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TameMe
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For the most part...we only sacrifice what will give us an individual payback.
we're not saints...and altruism is rare...
we're finite beings with animal instincts....we all want to live, and live well....
unfortunately we have not learned how to efficiently allocate minimum standards and tolerance for all lives/lifestyles....
one's freedom limits another's....
some are bound to be trampled on.
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redgreenvines
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: TameMe]
#23662908 - 09/20/16 07:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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that is very dark
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TameMe
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Quote:
redgreenvines said: that is very dark
yeah...i'm a cynical bastard.....
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RJ Tubs 202


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Quote:
redgreenvines said:
too much expectation from tradition is an error as well . . .
Isn't "tradition" also known as "conditioning"?
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MollyLucyMaryJane

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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Alonzo]
#23663904 - 09/21/16 01:00 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Since much of our tech came from wars we probably wouldnt be where we are today without them.
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redgreenvines
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
too much expectation from tradition is an error as well . . .
Isn't "tradition" also known as "conditioning"?
it is a way of remembering social history without writing, and using that social reference to solve problems.
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pineninja
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Or create them.
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nuentoter
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Although we kinda suck at that part
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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akira_akuma
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: nuentoter] 1
#23664156 - 09/21/16 05:37 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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it's all a matter of recording things. we are basically giant walking recorders of information. we live, we record, we provide information to record from.
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pineninja
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During the act of recording we are also displaying something to be recorded. Neither is more important than the other and subjectively life goes on.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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redgreenvines
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: pineninja] 1
#23664508 - 09/21/16 09:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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that is the essence of attitude a kind of projection, that supports perceptual findings: i.e. while looking to identify a pattern, we put on the "identify that pattern mask" this scrutiny might speed up findings of the pattern, but it also anticipates and taints the results.
we have to work with that as a baseline, and keep revisiting things we care about with a variety of attitudes.
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SleepyE
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
too much expectation from tradition is an error as well . . .
Isn't "tradition" also known as "conditioning"?
i feel this conversation so much. I just was in a bit of an argument with my mom over drugs. My mom said She showed my artwork to one of my neighbors and she liked it but she mentioned it was very psychedelic. (the neighbor is against drugs because her son OD'd on DXM pretty sure accidentally.)
Ive constantly had debates with my mom about drugs and for some reason she just cannot understand why i feel obligated to defend specifically psychedelics.
her argument is "Oh ive never tried any drug but i dont need too ive seen what happens to people it ruins their life, No-one in the world who is successful uses drugs. you can get way better results from just meditation, drugs are just dangerous and stupid, etc"
She looks at heroin and meth addicts and thinks all that is the same for weed and psychedelics. Ive told her time and time again that there is a difference between meth,cocaine,heroin, and drugs associated with abuse versus psychedelics which are drugs of self exploration and healing. Anytime i try to show her the studies on the benefits of psychedelics and all the treatment potential she just rolls her eyes and says "pfft, drugs"
Ive tried to explain that there is an explosion of psychedelic visionary art from people who are depicting their experiences and she just cannot understand why thats meaningful and important and valuable.
I get really upset because how she reacts is almost like racism and bigotry. Anyone who uses any drugs to her is automatically a "drug addict" and she says it in disgust and acts like shes WAY better and that they are "evil". Although she is pretty homophobic too. I find it so offensive because i have been effected in such a positive way in both my perspective on life, creativity and overall excitement for life but for some reason my revelations are invalid because it was inspired by "drugs"
Im gonna be moving away from her soon and in with my dad and brother who are more supportive and open minded, i just feel like i should write her off because she is soo hopelessly brainwashed she cannot let go of it its almost an identity and she will reject any evidence suggesting she has fallen for brainwashing. When i present evidence to her that she is wrong she just looks like shes having a brain aneurysm and then the cognitive dissonance kicks in and she just stops talking and ignores me. So fucking frustrating. sorry if i derailed but i felt my recent struggle really relates to this topic. I find it unfortunate that she considers me smart but cant give me any credit for why an intelligent person like my would be defending some type of drugs.
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Edited by SleepyE (09/21/16 10:16 AM)
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zzripz
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: SleepyE] 1
#23664824 - 09/21/16 11:51 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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you find that you just cannot get through to some people. maybe especially mums, because many will continue seeing you as their baby, and 'mama knows best'
but having said that, play it cool. Still work on her. try asking her if she believes in propaganda! IE does she NOT believe that the powers that be try and force a sense of 'reality' on us--which is a delusion
find out and remind her what her 'real world'--the world of smart, slick 'successful' business corporate people who errrm 'don't take drugs'--and its central profit motive is ACTUALLY doing to the natural environment. Explain how psychedelic experience can deepen your feeling of connection with nature, so that you do NOT want to degrade and destory it. Does she not value that?
She then may say eg 'so why do you need psychedelics to know that?'
Then ask her does SHE know what she is even talking about.l Can someone talk about sex who has never had sex (err maybe you wont wanna talk about that with your mum lol)? So use another example. Then offer her a chance to have a psychedelic experience! OTHERWISE, how the F does she even know what she is talking about?
Edited by zzripz (09/21/16 11:52 AM)
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redgreenvines
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: zzripz] 1
#23665035 - 09/21/16 01:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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the mum problem is that psychedelics are listed under drugs, and all drugs are bad.
from her point of view, some drugs really are bad, and others are bad for some people. people are different and some drugs are different, some are actually not harmful for the majority of people, when explored with care and healthy interest.
somehow the thing about psychedelics has to be separated completely from the bad drugs.
I would not invite a mum to try until after the muddy waters had been cleared, and she knew that what you like is harmless and your approach is healthy.
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hTx
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: zzripz]
#23665057 - 09/21/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alonzo said: We're so intelligent a species.
Because we are still relatively primitive compared to our technology.
primitive brain circuitry left over from evolution operating unconsciously on a majority of humanity. It's the whole spiritual inspiration thing, "higher consciousness "
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



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thanks for the advice.
at times i feel like i can somewhat get through to her and for a second she might consider my point of view and then she just gets tainted by tv propaganda and forgets my points and is back at square one.
it sucks because my moral obligation to defend the importance of psychedelics conflicts with her image of me being a drug-free baby. But i have to do it, ive been effected WAYY to positively by it and i feel it is my duty to give my respect to it.
She doesnt like how what i do(entheogens) looks like heroin and meth but she just cant see that the typical result and impact on a person is VASTLY different between the two. I say its like telling me not to explore and understand some portal to an alternate dimension. She completely discredits shamanism and insults them and claims that meditation is way better and assumes i can get the same benefits that i seek from meditation. and i said im not going to waste like 60 years of my life trying to "maybe" achieve the state i desire when instead i can just use technology. I need the visions as an artist, she doesnt understand that and i cant put all my eggs in a maybe basket. Ive told her that my experiences have inspired me to be more ambitious and to test my limits more but she just wont allow the idea that it has helped/inspired me in that way.
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
   Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel
Edited by SleepyE (09/21/16 02:33 PM)
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redgreenvines
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: SleepyE] 2
#23665388 - 09/21/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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You do not need to educate her. you can love her in her life the way she likes it, and still be true to yourself. also don't discuss dimensions with her too easily threatened by that which indicates to her that you have already slipped into a world of imagination.
people have little knowledge that their own preconceived notions that shape their world are also a world of imagination.
go for mutual respect and do not use words that trigger her insecurities.
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SleepyE
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its hard, since the way im designing my goal in life inevitably is woven deep within the revelations of psychedelia. So i feel like she is unable to be supportive of my dreams/goals and efforts because it involves drugs in a way.
I find what you said pretty interesting and didnt think about it at that angle. What exactly is it about the worlds of imagination i enter that threatens her? Im assuming you mean it might make her think about the delusions she has constructed about her world? She is very naive and thinks the world works the way we are told it does and that there is no hidden agenda and believes the authorities wouldnt lie. Of course there are a few exceptions like she is against doctors prescribing drugs and against vaccines and shit. But she 100% believes the war on drugs was moral and was only to "keep us safe".
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
   Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel
Edited by SleepyE (09/21/16 03:49 PM)
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redgreenvines
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: SleepyE]
#23665537 - 09/21/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you had a dog and loved her, you would not expect to explain anything fantastic to her and find she was appreciatively enlightened by the conversation.
You have to love your mom, but you can't explain it to her either.
just love her the way she is. if she believes that immunization is bad, she is not going to get your points at all, just be nice, don't upset her.
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SleepyE
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ahah okay, i think i see ur point :')
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nuentoter
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: hTx]
#23666705 - 09/21/16 10:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said:
Quote:
Alonzo said: We're so intelligent a species.
Because we are still relatively primitive compared to our technology.
primitive brain circuitry left over from evolution operating unconsciously on a majority of humanity. It's the whole spiritual inspiration thing, "higher consciousness "
Makes me wonder about population booms having a push in times of strife (war), but also from the need for the younger, more pliable sponge-like brain to keep up. It's almost unreal quickly a young kid can learn things compared to adults, for the most part least.
That also makes me wonder what stresses we self impose (drugs [hard drugs {heroin, narcotics, meth, etc}], cutting, promiscuous unprotected sex, violence, prejudice, hate, on and on and on...) that may be a result of this same push for a less rigid and restrained mind.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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sprinkles
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Alonzo]
#23666731 - 09/21/16 11:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alonzo said: We're so intelligent a species.
Why do we fight one another and not have world peace? Why? 
the world is overpopulated and has limited resources. I dont blame the elite at all for wanting to kill the majority of us. I fucking would too. Bunch of dumb fuckers pumping out kids they cant pay for, by the litter. Shooting one another, consuming everything. You bet i'd be pushing for death of 90% of the worlds population for sure.
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nuentoter
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: sprinkles]
#23666814 - 09/21/16 11:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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/me hugs sprinkles
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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