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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
too much expectation from tradition is an error as well . . .
Isn't "tradition" also known as "conditioning"?
it is a way of remembering social history without writing, and using that social reference to solve problems.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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Or create them.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
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Last seen: 7 years, 21 days
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Although we kinda suck at that part
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: nuentoter] 1
#23664156 - 09/21/16 05:37 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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it's all a matter of recording things. we are basically giant walking recorders of information. we live, we record, we provide information to record from.
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pineninja
Dream Weaver



Registered: 08/17/14
Posts: 12,468
Loc: South
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During the act of recording we are also displaying something to be recorded. Neither is more important than the other and subjectively life goes on.
-------------------- Just a fool on the hill.
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: pineninja] 1
#23664508 - 09/21/16 09:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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that is the essence of attitude a kind of projection, that supports perceptual findings: i.e. while looking to identify a pattern, we put on the "identify that pattern mask" this scrutiny might speed up findings of the pattern, but it also anticipates and taints the results.
we have to work with that as a baseline, and keep revisiting things we care about with a variety of attitudes.
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 8,759
Loc: Ontario, Canada,
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Quote:
RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:
redgreenvines said:
too much expectation from tradition is an error as well . . .
Isn't "tradition" also known as "conditioning"?
i feel this conversation so much. I just was in a bit of an argument with my mom over drugs. My mom said She showed my artwork to one of my neighbors and she liked it but she mentioned it was very psychedelic. (the neighbor is against drugs because her son OD'd on DXM pretty sure accidentally.)
Ive constantly had debates with my mom about drugs and for some reason she just cannot understand why i feel obligated to defend specifically psychedelics.
her argument is "Oh ive never tried any drug but i dont need too ive seen what happens to people it ruins their life, No-one in the world who is successful uses drugs. you can get way better results from just meditation, drugs are just dangerous and stupid, etc"
She looks at heroin and meth addicts and thinks all that is the same for weed and psychedelics. Ive told her time and time again that there is a difference between meth,cocaine,heroin, and drugs associated with abuse versus psychedelics which are drugs of self exploration and healing. Anytime i try to show her the studies on the benefits of psychedelics and all the treatment potential she just rolls her eyes and says "pfft, drugs"
Ive tried to explain that there is an explosion of psychedelic visionary art from people who are depicting their experiences and she just cannot understand why thats meaningful and important and valuable.
I get really upset because how she reacts is almost like racism and bigotry. Anyone who uses any drugs to her is automatically a "drug addict" and she says it in disgust and acts like shes WAY better and that they are "evil". Although she is pretty homophobic too. I find it so offensive because i have been effected in such a positive way in both my perspective on life, creativity and overall excitement for life but for some reason my revelations are invalid because it was inspired by "drugs"
Im gonna be moving away from her soon and in with my dad and brother who are more supportive and open minded, i just feel like i should write her off because she is soo hopelessly brainwashed she cannot let go of it its almost an identity and she will reject any evidence suggesting she has fallen for brainwashing. When i present evidence to her that she is wrong she just looks like shes having a brain aneurysm and then the cognitive dissonance kicks in and she just stops talking and ignores me. So fucking frustrating. sorry if i derailed but i felt my recent struggle really relates to this topic. I find it unfortunate that she considers me smart but cant give me any credit for why an intelligent person like my would be defending some type of drugs.
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
   Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel
Edited by SleepyE (09/21/16 10:16 AM)
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zzripz
Stranger


Registered: 12/23/08
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: SleepyE] 1
#23664824 - 09/21/16 11:51 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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you find that you just cannot get through to some people. maybe especially mums, because many will continue seeing you as their baby, and 'mama knows best'
but having said that, play it cool. Still work on her. try asking her if she believes in propaganda! IE does she NOT believe that the powers that be try and force a sense of 'reality' on us--which is a delusion
find out and remind her what her 'real world'--the world of smart, slick 'successful' business corporate people who errrm 'don't take drugs'--and its central profit motive is ACTUALLY doing to the natural environment. Explain how psychedelic experience can deepen your feeling of connection with nature, so that you do NOT want to degrade and destory it. Does she not value that?
She then may say eg 'so why do you need psychedelics to know that?'
Then ask her does SHE know what she is even talking about.l Can someone talk about sex who has never had sex (err maybe you wont wanna talk about that with your mum lol)? So use another example. Then offer her a chance to have a psychedelic experience! OTHERWISE, how the F does she even know what she is talking about?
Edited by zzripz (09/21/16 11:52 AM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: zzripz] 1
#23665035 - 09/21/16 01:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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the mum problem is that psychedelics are listed under drugs, and all drugs are bad.
from her point of view, some drugs really are bad, and others are bad for some people. people are different and some drugs are different, some are actually not harmful for the majority of people, when explored with care and healthy interest.
somehow the thing about psychedelics has to be separated completely from the bad drugs.
I would not invite a mum to try until after the muddy waters had been cleared, and she knew that what you like is harmless and your approach is healthy.
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hTx
(:



Registered: 03/27/13
Posts: 5,724
Loc: Space-time
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: zzripz]
#23665057 - 09/21/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alonzo said: We're so intelligent a species.
Because we are still relatively primitive compared to our technology.
primitive brain circuitry left over from evolution operating unconsciously on a majority of humanity. It's the whole spiritual inspiration thing, "higher consciousness "
-------------------- zen by age ten times six hundred lifetimes Light up the darkness.
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 8,759
Loc: Ontario, Canada,
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thanks for the advice.
at times i feel like i can somewhat get through to her and for a second she might consider my point of view and then she just gets tainted by tv propaganda and forgets my points and is back at square one.
it sucks because my moral obligation to defend the importance of psychedelics conflicts with her image of me being a drug-free baby. But i have to do it, ive been effected WAYY to positively by it and i feel it is my duty to give my respect to it.
She doesnt like how what i do(entheogens) looks like heroin and meth but she just cant see that the typical result and impact on a person is VASTLY different between the two. I say its like telling me not to explore and understand some portal to an alternate dimension. She completely discredits shamanism and insults them and claims that meditation is way better and assumes i can get the same benefits that i seek from meditation. and i said im not going to waste like 60 years of my life trying to "maybe" achieve the state i desire when instead i can just use technology. I need the visions as an artist, she doesnt understand that and i cant put all my eggs in a maybe basket. Ive told her that my experiences have inspired me to be more ambitious and to test my limits more but she just wont allow the idea that it has helped/inspired me in that way.
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
   Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel
Edited by SleepyE (09/21/16 02:33 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: SleepyE] 2
#23665388 - 09/21/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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You do not need to educate her. you can love her in her life the way she likes it, and still be true to yourself. also don't discuss dimensions with her too easily threatened by that which indicates to her that you have already slipped into a world of imagination.
people have little knowledge that their own preconceived notions that shape their world are also a world of imagination.
go for mutual respect and do not use words that trigger her insecurities.
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 8,759
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its hard, since the way im designing my goal in life inevitably is woven deep within the revelations of psychedelia. So i feel like she is unable to be supportive of my dreams/goals and efforts because it involves drugs in a way.
I find what you said pretty interesting and didnt think about it at that angle. What exactly is it about the worlds of imagination i enter that threatens her? Im assuming you mean it might make her think about the delusions she has constructed about her world? She is very naive and thinks the world works the way we are told it does and that there is no hidden agenda and believes the authorities wouldnt lie. Of course there are a few exceptions like she is against doctors prescribing drugs and against vaccines and shit. But she 100% believes the war on drugs was moral and was only to "keep us safe".
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
   Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel
Edited by SleepyE (09/21/16 03:49 PM)
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: SleepyE]
#23665537 - 09/21/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you had a dog and loved her, you would not expect to explain anything fantastic to her and find she was appreciatively enlightened by the conversation.
You have to love your mom, but you can't explain it to her either.
just love her the way she is. if she believes that immunization is bad, she is not going to get your points at all, just be nice, don't upset her.
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SleepyE
DMT is metaphysical



Registered: 07/21/08
Posts: 8,759
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ahah okay, i think i see ur point :')
-------------------- My Drawingzz Draw DMT!
   Trip Report: SHROOMS DMT---- My Youtube Psychedelic Channel
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nuentoter
conduit



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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: hTx]
#23666705 - 09/21/16 10:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
hTx said:
Quote:
Alonzo said: We're so intelligent a species.
Because we are still relatively primitive compared to our technology.
primitive brain circuitry left over from evolution operating unconsciously on a majority of humanity. It's the whole spiritual inspiration thing, "higher consciousness "
Makes me wonder about population booms having a push in times of strife (war), but also from the need for the younger, more pliable sponge-like brain to keep up. It's almost unreal quickly a young kid can learn things compared to adults, for the most part least.
That also makes me wonder what stresses we self impose (drugs [hard drugs {heroin, narcotics, meth, etc}], cutting, promiscuous unprotected sex, violence, prejudice, hate, on and on and on...) that may be a result of this same push for a less rigid and restrained mind.
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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sprinkles
otd president


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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: Alonzo]
#23666731 - 09/21/16 11:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Alonzo said: We're so intelligent a species.
Why do we fight one another and not have world peace? Why? 
the world is overpopulated and has limited resources. I dont blame the elite at all for wanting to kill the majority of us. I fucking would too. Bunch of dumb fuckers pumping out kids they cant pay for, by the litter. Shooting one another, consuming everything. You bet i'd be pushing for death of 90% of the worlds population for sure.
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nuentoter
conduit



Registered: 09/17/08
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Re: We're so intelligent [Re: sprinkles]
#23666814 - 09/21/16 11:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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/me hugs sprinkles
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The geometry of us is no chance. We are antennae, we are tuning forks, we are receiver and transmitters of all energy. We are more than we know. - @entheolove "I found I could say things with color and shapes that I couldn't say any other way - things I had no words for" - Georgia O'Keefe I think the word is vagina
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