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OfflineKingM3
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differences..grain spawn and substrate
    #23609806 - 09/03/16 11:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I'm using rye seed for the first time and every video watched seemed to use the colonized grain spawn itself as the substrate yet researching posts all I read about is mixing the grains "with" the substrate. Can the colonized jars be used independently or do I need to make a substrate. Also I own no pressure cooker and I'm aware of the contamination issues. Would sterilizing them twice suffice? I plan on spending the extra time of shaking them up and putting them back in the steamer again but not if it's a waste of time. All opinions count and matte. Thanks


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
    #23609810 - 09/03/16 11:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You can fruit off the grain itself but you will get better results spawning to a bulk substrate.

Except for coir, most bulk substrates needs to be pasturized (horse poo, straw, cow poo etc).

If you were to fruit straight grains usually you add a casing layer. You break up the grain, pour in a tray and then add a casing.

When you spawn to bulk, you mix your colonized grain spawn with your bulk substrate and it gets colonized and f ruited.






How are you planning on using grains without a pressure cooker? They *can* get steam sterilized like PF cakes but it takes 8+ hours.


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Edited by mushpunx (09/03/16 11:40 PM)


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OfflineKingM3
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: mushpunx]
    #23609822 - 09/03/16 11:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thanks for the fast reply. What about my double steaming idea. I hear a lot of people talk about the problem with steaming vs pressure but no one seems to try and find a solid way around it for those of us without the extra money. I'm curious and determined to make it an equivalent


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OfflineKingM3
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
    #23609827 - 09/03/16 11:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Got 5 in a pot right now well into the first hour. I plan on letting them cool checking for cracks then doing it again.


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Offlinemushpunx
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
    #23609846 - 09/03/16 11:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I think if you dont have access to a PC you should hold off on the grains.

Stick with BRF cakes untill then. BRF can be crumbled up and used as spawn to mix with a bulk substrate


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OfflineKingM3
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: mushpunx]
    #23609863 - 09/04/16 12:01 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

It's too late. And also what my main goal is to find a way to make it work.
I'm more than familiar with brf. This is more of an experiment to find answers people don't really have.


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
    #23610033 - 09/04/16 01:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If you don't PC grains, expect 100% failure.  Bacteria or molds will annihilate your jars and make them uncolonizable almost everytime. 

Also, fruiting from straight grain has a high failure rate in and of itself due to increased chance for contamination, even at 100% colonization.  It also has a lot of other problems.  This is why you'll never see veteran cultivators do it. 

Live and learn.


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: Mushierage]
    #23610359 - 09/04/16 07:01 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Grain without a PC is 100% waist of time. You could steam grain 8+ hours which I also call a waist of time


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
    #23610767 - 09/04/16 09:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

KingM3 said:
Thanks for the fast reply. What about my double steaming idea. I hear a lot of people talk about the problem with steaming vs pressure but no one seems to try and find a solid way around it for those of us without the extra money. I'm curious and determined to make it an equivalent




its already been mentioned, 8 hrs steaming is the "solid way around it" if you dont have a PC but noone bothers to do that at home.
when you sterilize grains you want to expose them to high temps for prolongued periods of time, doing 2 runs where neither is long enough isnt helping.

BTW cased grains doesnt have a higher chance of contamination than spawned grains, if anything its the other way around since you dont have to break up the myc network and make it recolonize again.


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InvisiblebodhisattaMDiscordReddit
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: spacechildo]
    #23610824 - 09/04/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Without the extra money?

Used pressure cooker 20-40$ in the states
Nee 23q presto delivery to your door 70$

Trying to get around using a pressure cooker you'll spend the money elsewhere on dumb shit. Just get a PC


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23610837 - 09/04/16 10:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If I ran a mush farm I'd use one of those 55gal barrels and steam sterilize my grains, but waiting 8 hrs for a pot with boiling water on my stove to make grain spawn? no thanks.


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OfflineKingM3
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: spacechildo]
    #23611121 - 09/04/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thank you guys. I couldnt find a PC worth while under 350 bucks whick is a huge set back versus time and patience. Anyone who would say it's impossible isn't a scientist. There is always a way. I have spores for days so o can risk the contamination problem. Just looking for the back door even if it means a lot of time and trial and error


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OfflineKingM3
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
    #23611125 - 09/04/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Thankyou guys for the info


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
    #23611172 - 09/04/16 12:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Whaat?  What kind of PCs are you looking at?  My AA921 was only like 200 somethin.  You live in Canada where they rape on shipping?


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OfflineKingM3
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23611270 - 09/04/16 12:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Trusted Cultivator said:
Without the extra money?

Used pressure cooker 20-40$ in the states
Nee 23q presto delivery to your door 70$

Trying to get around using a pressure cooker you'll spend the money elsewhere on dumb shit. Just get a PC




Found it. Thanks a bunc, it will be here by Tuesday. Still gonna side experiment without it. I'll find a solution even if it means modifications. Ii find this all to be very fascinating from the failures to flawlesss finish. I have learned much from this site and wouldn't be enjoying my free te nearly as well without you guys. I thank you


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
    #23611290 - 09/04/16 12:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Just as a word of advice, as friendly as this advice can be imparted: most of us are no longer fascinated by failures and will inherently grow frustrated watching or hearing about avoidable failures taking place.  If you want to fail on your own time, that's good and well and nobody will hold it against you, but if you ask for advice and then opt for the failure route anyway, that's been known to yield negative reactions at times.  That is all, and good luck with whatever you do.

After a while you'll develop a bit of an empathetic connection with the mycelium and understand what I mean.


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OfflineKingM3
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: Inocuole]
    #23611365 - 09/04/16 01:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

None of that was even necessary. As you can see above I just found the PC I needed and ordered it. I asked simple questions any vet could answer took my notes and am moving forward with the advice given, which I thought was the purpose of this website.... Just a word of advice, and as friendly this advice can be departed...you don't have to respond to any post thats far below your times worth. I look for answers only, good or bad. Not some  "friendly" lectures about how annoying rookies can be. Be encouraging or stay of my posts


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
    #23611370 - 09/04/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Oh, well, I just thought of another piece of advice.  Don't be butthurt and lash out to people who are trying to point you in the right direction or this place will eat you alive.


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                            :rainbowdrink: Tea doesn't work?                            AMU  (Q & A)                  Grain prep for Intergalactic Space Oats :pes:     

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OfflineKingM3
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: Inocuole]
    #23611385 - 09/04/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Never butt hurt but making it loud and clear I don't need any kinda lecture outside the range of my question. I ask a dumb retarded question tell me it's dumb and retarded and y. Not a lecture about how rookies whp make mistakes cause some info is just hard to find or gets misinterpreted is annoying. I'm learning as I go...annoying to you then just don't respond. All the respect I can ask for


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OfflineMushierage
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
    #23611413 - 09/04/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Poke a sleeping bear much?


--------------------
Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup.  OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.



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OfflineKingM3
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: Mushierage]
    #23611425 - 09/04/16 01:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Lol


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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: spacechildo]
    #23618823 - 09/06/16 04:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
If I ran a mush farm I'd use one of those 55gal barrels and steam sterilize my grains, but waiting 8 hrs for a pot with boiling water on my stove to make grain spawn? no thanks.



You do not have to be actively steaming the jars, if you held them at boiling point it should be the same thing. I have heat treated jars over several days just under 100C which still show no sign of contams, submerged in sealed jars in hot water. If you use oil or water with additives you can get it past the usual boiling point, there would be minimal pressure so I expect decent jars would hold up. You would have a simple thermostat controlling it. If done in cold weather the heat given off could be heating your room and so not going to waste. If well insulated the energy costs would not be too much anyway. In a large barrel you could have water circulating using a pump, there are also sous vide water circulators which are cheap enough -and could double up for cooking with.

I would be interested to hear if anybody looked at the power usage of electric PCs in a typical run.


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Offlinespacechildo
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: blackout]
    #23618917 - 09/06/16 04:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I still wouldn't leave my house with a kettle of boiling water on :shrug:


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OfflineKenetic
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: spacechildo]
    #23618961 - 09/06/16 05:01 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah and 8 hours of gas sounds expensive.  A 'scientific' way around this shit would be selecting the most efficient method to achieve your goal.  If you only have a small batch, get a p.c. 

Like blackout said, it can be done, but like I said it probably isn't worth it for a small batch of jars unless you never plan on growing again, which I doubt.  Grow once and you'll get the fever....:mushroom2:


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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: Kenetic]
    #23639010 - 09/12/16 04:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

spacechildo said:
I still wouldn't leave my house with a kettle of boiling water on :shrug:



I have, the boilers I use are commonly left on over the whole weekend where I work, more often than not cafes etc leave them turned on. I also leave my fridge freezer on. I am not talking about a pot of water on a stove.

Quote:

kenetic said:
Yeah and 8 hours of gas sounds expensive.  A 'scientific' way around this shit would be selecting the most efficient method to achieve your goal.


This is why I wanted to hear the energy usage of people with electric PCs. I have a 10L vacuum insulated tank which only uses about 10W of power while holding water at 97C. The initial heating uses a lot more. If my jars are up to temperature after 90mins then it is only using 10W from then on. Where I live electricity is 16 cent (euros) per kWhr. So if I had a 10L tank up to temperate for 10 additional hours it would cost me 1.6cent extra in addition to initial heat up costs.

I have a 50L keg which has just regular insulation and I think it looses about 200W, so that would be 32cent for the extra 10 hours.


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