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KingM3
Master Dragon Slayer

Registered: 08/30/16
Posts: 121
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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differences..grain spawn and substrate
#23609806 - 09/03/16 11:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I'm using rye seed for the first time and every video watched seemed to use the colonized grain spawn itself as the substrate yet researching posts all I read about is mixing the grains "with" the substrate. Can the colonized jars be used independently or do I need to make a substrate. Also I own no pressure cooker and I'm aware of the contamination issues. Would sterilizing them twice suffice? I plan on spending the extra time of shaking them up and putting them back in the steamer again but not if it's a waste of time. All opinions count and matte. Thanks
-------------------- Smoke weed, trip shrooms, slay dragons, and be happy ✌✌
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk


Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 17 hours
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
#23609810 - 09/03/16 11:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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You can fruit off the grain itself but you will get better results spawning to a bulk substrate.
Except for coir, most bulk substrates needs to be pasturized (horse poo, straw, cow poo etc).
If you were to fruit straight grains usually you add a casing layer. You break up the grain, pour in a tray and then add a casing.
When you spawn to bulk, you mix your colonized grain spawn with your bulk substrate and it gets colonized and f ruited.
How are you planning on using grains without a pressure cooker? They *can* get steam sterilized like PF cakes but it takes 8+ hours.
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 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
Edited by mushpunx (09/03/16 11:40 PM)
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KingM3
Master Dragon Slayer

Registered: 08/30/16
Posts: 121
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: mushpunx]
#23609822 - 09/03/16 11:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thanks for the fast reply. What about my double steaming idea. I hear a lot of people talk about the problem with steaming vs pressure but no one seems to try and find a solid way around it for those of us without the extra money. I'm curious and determined to make it an equivalent
-------------------- Smoke weed, trip shrooms, slay dragons, and be happy ✌✌
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KingM3
Master Dragon Slayer

Registered: 08/30/16
Posts: 121
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
#23609827 - 09/03/16 11:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Got 5 in a pot right now well into the first hour. I plan on letting them cool checking for cracks then doing it again.
-------------------- Smoke weed, trip shrooms, slay dragons, and be happy ✌✌
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mushpunx
Fungus Punk


Registered: 04/20/14
Posts: 13,394
Last seen: 11 days, 17 hours
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
#23609846 - 09/03/16 11:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think if you dont have access to a PC you should hold off on the grains.
Stick with BRF cakes untill then. BRF can be crumbled up and used as spawn to mix with a bulk substrate
--------------------
 Amateur Mycologists United AMU Q&A
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KingM3
Master Dragon Slayer

Registered: 08/30/16
Posts: 121
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: mushpunx]
#23609863 - 09/04/16 12:01 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's too late. And also what my main goal is to find a way to make it work. I'm more than familiar with brf. This is more of an experiment to find answers people don't really have.
-------------------- Smoke weed, trip shrooms, slay dragons, and be happy ✌✌
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker



Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
#23610033 - 09/04/16 01:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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If you don't PC grains, expect 100% failure. Bacteria or molds will annihilate your jars and make them uncolonizable almost everytime.
Also, fruiting from straight grain has a high failure rate in and of itself due to increased chance for contamination, even at 100% colonization. It also has a lot of other problems. This is why you'll never see veteran cultivators do it.
Live and learn.
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: Mushierage]
#23610359 - 09/04/16 07:01 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Grain without a PC is 100% waist of time. You could steam grain 8+ hours which I also call a waist of time
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
#23610767 - 09/04/16 09:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
KingM3 said: Thanks for the fast reply. What about my double steaming idea. I hear a lot of people talk about the problem with steaming vs pressure but no one seems to try and find a solid way around it for those of us without the extra money. I'm curious and determined to make it an equivalent
its already been mentioned, 8 hrs steaming is the "solid way around it" if you dont have a PC but noone bothers to do that at home. when you sterilize grains you want to expose them to high temps for prolongued periods of time, doing 2 runs where neither is long enough isnt helping.
BTW cased grains doesnt have a higher chance of contamination than spawned grains, if anything its the other way around since you dont have to break up the myc network and make it recolonize again.
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bodhisatta 
Smurf real estate agent


Registered: 04/30/13
Posts: 61,889
Loc: Milky way
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: spacechildo]
#23610824 - 09/04/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Without the extra money?
Used pressure cooker 20-40$ in the states Nee 23q presto delivery to your door 70$
Trying to get around using a pressure cooker you'll spend the money elsewhere on dumb shit. Just get a PC
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


Registered: 01/24/13
Posts: 19,243
Loc: Babylon
Last seen: 6 years, 4 months
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: bodhisatta]
#23610837 - 09/04/16 10:08 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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If I ran a mush farm I'd use one of those 55gal barrels and steam sterilize my grains, but waiting 8 hrs for a pot with boiling water on my stove to make grain spawn? no thanks.
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KingM3
Master Dragon Slayer

Registered: 08/30/16
Posts: 121
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: spacechildo]
#23611121 - 09/04/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thank you guys. I couldnt find a PC worth while under 350 bucks whick is a huge set back versus time and patience. Anyone who would say it's impossible isn't a scientist. There is always a way. I have spores for days so o can risk the contamination problem. Just looking for the back door even if it means a lot of time and trial and error
-------------------- Smoke weed, trip shrooms, slay dragons, and be happy ✌✌
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KingM3
Master Dragon Slayer

Registered: 08/30/16
Posts: 121
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
#23611125 - 09/04/16 11:56 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Thankyou guys for the info
-------------------- Smoke weed, trip shrooms, slay dragons, and be happy ✌✌
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
#23611172 - 09/04/16 12:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Whaat? What kind of PCs are you looking at? My AA921 was only like 200 somethin. You live in Canada where they rape on shipping?
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KingM3
Master Dragon Slayer

Registered: 08/30/16
Posts: 121
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: bodhisatta]
#23611270 - 09/04/16 12:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Trusted Cultivator said: Without the extra money?
Used pressure cooker 20-40$ in the states Nee 23q presto delivery to your door 70$
Trying to get around using a pressure cooker you'll spend the money elsewhere on dumb shit. Just get a PC
Found it. Thanks a bunc, it will be here by Tuesday. Still gonna side experiment without it. I'll find a solution even if it means modifications. Ii find this all to be very fascinating from the failures to flawlesss finish. I have learned much from this site and wouldn't be enjoying my free te nearly as well without you guys. I thank you
-------------------- Smoke weed, trip shrooms, slay dragons, and be happy ✌✌
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
#23611290 - 09/04/16 12:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just as a word of advice, as friendly as this advice can be imparted: most of us are no longer fascinated by failures and will inherently grow frustrated watching or hearing about avoidable failures taking place. If you want to fail on your own time, that's good and well and nobody will hold it against you, but if you ask for advice and then opt for the failure route anyway, that's been known to yield negative reactions at times. That is all, and good luck with whatever you do.
After a while you'll develop a bit of an empathetic connection with the mycelium and understand what I mean.
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KingM3
Master Dragon Slayer

Registered: 08/30/16
Posts: 121
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: Inocuole]
#23611365 - 09/04/16 01:13 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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None of that was even necessary. As you can see above I just found the PC I needed and ordered it. I asked simple questions any vet could answer took my notes and am moving forward with the advice given, which I thought was the purpose of this website.... Just a word of advice, and as friendly this advice can be departed...you don't have to respond to any post thats far below your times worth. I look for answers only, good or bad. Not some "friendly" lectures about how annoying rookies can be. Be encouraging or stay of my posts
-------------------- Smoke weed, trip shrooms, slay dragons, and be happy ✌✌
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
#23611370 - 09/04/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh, well, I just thought of another piece of advice. Don't be butthurt and lash out to people who are trying to point you in the right direction or this place will eat you alive.
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KingM3
Master Dragon Slayer

Registered: 08/30/16
Posts: 121
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: Inocuole]
#23611385 - 09/04/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Never butt hurt but making it loud and clear I don't need any kinda lecture outside the range of my question. I ask a dumb retarded question tell me it's dumb and retarded and y. Not a lecture about how rookies whp make mistakes cause some info is just hard to find or gets misinterpreted is annoying. I'm learning as I go...annoying to you then just don't respond. All the respect I can ask for
-------------------- Smoke weed, trip shrooms, slay dragons, and be happy ✌✌
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker



Registered: 06/29/16
Posts: 1,094
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: differences..grain spawn and substrate [Re: KingM3]
#23611413 - 09/04/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Poke a sleeping bear much?
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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