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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,568
Loc: Utah
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Or maybe we're just spoiled. 
Can you demonstrate the average person today is happier than someone living a hundred years ago? Five hundred? Ten thousand? How would you know? A case can be made either way, neither with empirical evidence. More conveniences does not necessarily mean happier.
I've read a LOT of material written hundreds of years ago as part of my degree. I can say with some confidence that the average person today is much happier than the average person in the 1700-1800s, and certainly MUCH happier than those that lived before 1000. The further you go back in history, the more brutal life gets, and their writing reflects this. People lived very hard lives that were very brutal and death was common and much closer than it is to us.
Industrialization in the beginning relied on child labor which could be quite dangerous or even lethal for the children involved, and even children at home were tied to things until their spines curved. Women who had children where the father ran off frequently became homeless, and often died. There were prisons for the homeless and prisons for those in debt. Working in factories 12 hours or more without breaks 6 days a week or more was commonplace.
Even farmers in the rural US in the 1700-1800s had it rough. They lived in abject poverty, often in makeshift houses (some of which were little more than holes dug in the ground), they lived and died based on the random prosperity of their crops, they worked to the bone every hour of the day, they lived in constant starvation if their crops did poorly, and if things turned south they either killed themselves or ended up in the factories mentioned above.
Then there's war. War used to be exceedingly common compared to how it is now. War was brutal before the invention of guns. Cities would be raped, their residents tortured and raped to death, and the cities burned to the ground. This happened all across medieval and ancient Europe, Asia, Japan, and America.
Then there's disease. Diseases and plagues of one kind or another used to be common. There are lots of writings from periods of plagues that are insanely depressing. They make it sound as if during a plague virtually everyone in a large city dies, and everyone who doesn't die is constantly expecting to die, and watching the others around them die. Society comes grinding to a halt as people take care of and watch their closest relatives die, before dying themselves. They hear and see their neighbors dying, and sometimes care for them and watch them die. If you lived in a major city, you would experience this at least once in your life prior to the invention of modern medicine. Even the ones that do survive are described as being incredibly altered and distraught by the experience.
Also childbirth used to be frequently fatal, and infant mortality was extremely common, and there was no freedom of speech, or of religion, and little to no economic mobility and very little if any middle class.
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Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: Is civilization really advanced? [Re: nooneman]
#23624805 - 09/08/16 05:53 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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What about their writing has given you clues about how happy they are? Genuinely curious, not doubting you.
On the whole, people in richer countries today tend to be happier, but that doesn't prevent relatively high rates of suicide in many rich countries, despite the much greater availability of mental health care. A common trope of many 3rd world poverty-porn type documentaries is some smiley happy-go-lucky fucker who doesn't so much as own the shirt on his back while in the first world we take drugs en masse and talk to shrinks about our 1st world issues.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Is civilization really advanced? [Re: nooneman]
#23625554 - 09/08/16 11:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said:
Quote:
DividedQuantum said: Or maybe we're just spoiled. 
Can you demonstrate the average person today is happier than someone living a hundred years ago? Five hundred? Ten thousand? How would you know? A case can be made either way, neither with empirical evidence. More conveniences does not necessarily mean happier.
I've read a LOT of material written hundreds of years ago as part of my degree. I can say with some confidence that the average person today is much happier than the average person in the 1700-1800s, and certainly MUCH happier than those that lived before 1000. The further you go back in history, the more brutal life gets, and their writing reflects this. People lived very hard lives that were very brutal and death was common and much closer than it is to us.
Industrialization in the beginning relied on child labor which could be quite dangerous or even lethal for the children involved, and even children at home were tied to things until their spines curved. Women who had children where the father ran off frequently became homeless, and often died. There were prisons for the homeless and prisons for those in debt. Working in factories 12 hours or more without breaks 6 days a week or more was commonplace.
Even farmers in the rural US in the 1700-1800s had it rough. They lived in abject poverty, often in makeshift houses (some of which were little more than holes dug in the ground), they lived and died based on the random prosperity of their crops, they worked to the bone every hour of the day, they lived in constant starvation if their crops did poorly, and if things turned south they either killed themselves or ended up in the factories mentioned above.
Then there's war. War used to be exceedingly common compared to how it is now. War was brutal before the invention of guns. Cities would be raped, their residents tortured and raped to death, and the cities burned to the ground. This happened all across medieval and ancient Europe, Asia, Japan, and America.
Then there's disease. Diseases and plagues of one kind or another used to be common. There are lots of writings from periods of plagues that are insanely depressing. They make it sound as if during a plague virtually everyone in a large city dies, and everyone who doesn't die is constantly expecting to die, and watching the others around them die. Society comes grinding to a halt as people take care of and watch their closest relatives die, before dying themselves. They hear and see their neighbors dying, and sometimes care for them and watch them die. If you lived in a major city, you would experience this at least once in your life prior to the invention of modern medicine. Even the ones that do survive are described as being incredibly altered and distraught by the experience.
Also childbirth used to be frequently fatal, and infant mortality was extremely common, and there was no freedom of speech, or of religion, and little to no economic mobility and very little if any middle class.
You should realize that before the adoption of agriculture, the vast majority of the phenomena you describe were absent. And agriculture wasn't adopted all over the world until relatively recently. In fact, there were large swaths of geography that did not see large-scale agriculture until the last couple hundred years (holdouts could be found in Australia, Africa, North and South America, and parts of Asia). Even today there are some non-agriculturalists, and they're doing well. I'm very sure this isn't a black and white thing with the farther back you go = less happy. That's clearly wrong.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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nooneman


Registered: 04/24/09
Posts: 14,568
Loc: Utah
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Before the adoption of agriculture means before 10,000 BC. If you go back before 10,000 BC, then I don't know maybe people are happier, but we don't have any actual written evidence of it either way. What we do know is that infant mortality and death in childbirth were both just as common as they always were before the invention of modern medicine, and that conflicts between hunter-gatherer tribes were common and deadly. Modern hunter-gatherers also don't lead such great lives. They live very hard lives, and a lot of them chose to leave that lifestyle because life is so hard.
But like, what are you actually proposing here? That we go back to being hunters and gatherers? In the long run, that will literally kill every human being alive when the sun eventually expands and cooks the earth. Not to mention there's not enough land for everyone to be hunters and gatherers, and giving up modern medicine and technology is just a bad idea.
Edited by nooneman (09/08/16 01:44 PM)
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Is civilization really advanced? [Re: nooneman]
#23625950 - 09/08/16 02:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
nooneman said: Before the adoption of agriculture means before 10,000 BC
No it doesn't. That's a common fallacy. 8,000 BCE is when intenstive agriculture was adopted in the fertile crescent. The whole rest of the world at that time was hunter-gather, or mixed hg (with some small-scale agriculture). There were also some food storing hunter-gatherers, but very few. 10,000 years ago is not when the world switched overnight to agriculture. It has taken 10,000 years to get the point that now almost everyone uses it (but not quite everyone). The world was mostly nonagrarian in most places after the time of Christ. The adoption of agriculture in the fertile crescent was the history of our direct ancestors, NOT the history of all of humanity. As I said, a common and easy fallacy to adopt.
Quote:
If you go back before 10,000 BC, then I don't know maybe people are happier, but we don't have any actual written evidence of it either way. What we do know is that infant mortality and death in childbirth were both just as common as they always were before the invention of modern medicine, and that conflicts between hunter-gatherer tribes were common and deadly. Modern hunter-gatherers also don't lead such great lives. They live very hard lives, and a lot of them chose to leave that lifestyle because life is so hard.
Life as hunter-gatherers was not as near-impossible as people think. They did have high infant mortality, but those who did make it commonly lived into their eighties. That is why the numbers on average death age are lower -- because of infant deaths. Some hgs were very peaceful, others were not, but you have to realize that the conflicts these people engaged in were healthy spats keeping people honest, and were NOTHING like modern warfare.
Quote:
But like, what are you actually proposing here? That we go back to being hunters and gatherers? In the long run, that will literally kill every human being alive when the sun eventually expands and cooks the earth. Not to mention there's not enough land for everyone to be hunters and gatherers, and giving up modern medicine and technology is just a bad idea.
No, I'm not arguing that we go back to being hunter-gatherers or even that that would be a desirable thing. The point is that the factors you listed illustrating the past are not universal.
Definitely, definitely not arguing for going back. We'd have to depopulate the planet by seven and a half billion people to make it feasible.
If you or anyone else is interested in learning more, follow the link in my sig: http://huntergatherers.org . It gives a comprehensive anthropological review of the subject.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
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Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Quote:
DividedQuantum said:The world was mostly nonagrarian in most places after the time of Christ.
 Quote:
Life as hunter-gatherers was not as near-impossible as people think. They did have high infant mortality, but those who did make it commonly lived into their eighties. That is why the numbers on average death age are lower -- because of infant deaths. Some hgs were very peaceful, others were not, but you have to realize that the conflicts these people engaged in were healthy spats keeping people honest, and were NOTHING like modern warfare.
Why were hg infant mortality deaths higher? Also, there were a thousand and one ways to die living in either kind of society from 5,000BC through most of written history. At the beginning of civilization and agriculture, Jared Diamond (lol, I've heard hes a joke among actual anthropologists and historians) and other make the argument civilized folk lived harder, less healthy lives. But as domestication continued and technology and techniques improved, people living in civilization reduced childhood mortality and the myriad of ways one can die at the hands of mother nature. To compensate we invented religion and private property to slaughter each other, but I digress.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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deff
just love everyone



Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 9,406
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Re: Is civilization really advanced? [Re: Crumist] 1
#23627078 - 09/08/16 08:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I really enjoyed Charles Eisenstein's take on hunter gatherer societies and similar issues in his book 'Ascent of Humanity' - it's been a while since I've read it and can't recall the content too well, but it was in line with what DQ is saying, that HG societies were not as deprived as we imagine looking back, and in many ways had improvements over our current ways of life. The book goes into a wide array of topics, that being one. anyways I highly recommend it
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Is civilization really advanced? [Re: Crumist]
#23627164 - 09/08/16 08:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crumist said: Why were hg infant mortality deaths higher?
Also, there were a thousand and one ways to die living in either kind of society from 5,000BC through most of written history. At the beginning of civilization and agriculture, Jared Diamond (lol, I've heard hes a joke among actual anthropologists and historians) and other make the argument civilized folk lived harder, less healthy lives. But as domestication continued and technology and techniques improved, people living in civilization reduced childhood mortality and the myriad of ways one can die at the hands of mother nature. To compensate we invented religion and private property to slaughter each other, but I digress.
Infant mortality was higher for a reason you might expect: children were particularly susceptible to diseases and infection that modern vaccines and antibiotics can address. As a result of this high mortality rate, all the averages get pulled down, and those who did make it through to adulthood commonly lived into their seventies and eighties. You are very right that sedentary societies greatly impacted infant mortality positively, eventually. Of course, over most of the ten thousand years of civilization, we didn't have antibiotics and vaccines so it's not night and day.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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Crumist
Stranger


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Its not just vaccines and antibiotics though. Living in proximity with domesticated animals inoculated the peasants against a variety of diseases. Permanent structures used for housing may have protected against predators and the elements. Once agriculture was sufficiently productive, large amounts of food could be stored to prevent famine during hard times. Social conventions and structures provided alternative forms of conflict resolution reducing the homicide rate (IIRC hgs have high rates of homicide per/capita and inter-hgs blood feuds can be sustained for extremely long periods of time)
If you look at hgs today, they don't all end up dying as children or at 80 years old. Yes infant mortality is high, but living out amongst nature is fucking dangerous. Im not proposing every hg dies before he turns 30, but the agricultural world made slow, incremental improvements to increase their collective welfare before penicillin and germ theory.
Wait a minute, we were talking happiness, not welfare. Yeah, you win, I've seen studies on how hgs are relatively happy and subsistence farmers can be rather miserable.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Is civilization really advanced? [Re: Crumist]
#23627272 - 09/08/16 09:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crumist said: Its not just vaccines and antibiotics though. Living in proximity with domesticated animals inoculated the peasants against a variety of diseases. Permanent structures used for housing may have protected against predators and the elements. Once agriculture was sufficiently productive, large amounts of food could be stored to prevent famine during hard times. Social conventions and structures provided alternative forms of conflict resolution reducing the homicide rate (IIRC hgs have high rates of homicide per/capita and inter-hgs blood feuds can be sustained for extremely long periods of time)
I just want to address the homicide rates. In most of the groups I've studied, homicide was not a major problem at all. Hgs have what are called "levelling mechanisms" that enable very successful conflict resolution. Now, the Yanomamo of Brazil, on the other hand, are one of the most brutal human societies on record. Extremely violent. But I have found that this level of violence is more the exception than the rule.
Quote:
If you look at hgs today, they don't all end up dying as children or at 80 years old. Yes infant mortality is high, but living out amongst nature is fucking dangerous. Im not proposing every hg dies before he turns 30, but the agricultural world made slow, incremental improvements to increase their collective welfare before penicillin and germ theory.
I can't argue with that.
Quote:
Wait a minute, we were talking happiness, not welfare. Yeah, you win, I've seen studies on how hgs are relatively happy and subsistence farmers can be rather miserable.
It's true.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
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technology is advanced. civilisation cannot grasp the concept of conserving and preserving ATP, currency, and working as socially conscious group-body.
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Brian Jones
Club 27



Registered: 12/18/12
Posts: 12,342
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Re: Is civilization really advanced? [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#23628243 - 09/09/16 07:28 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Things get better with time but I don't necessarily think people are any better off now than they were in 75 when I finished high school or 80 when I went away to college.
Viet Nam was over.
The political system was way more cooperative than the clown show we have now.
Everyone got their shots and vaccinations, and nobody ever talked about autism, aspergers, ADHT (and I can't even remember the one before that with 3 letters). A couple kids had Down's Syndrome. and every one else was normal. Sure a couple of the normal kids were weirder than others, but I don't think the current system of diagnosis and treatment is making those kids any happier or well off than they were then.
People weren't joining health clubs. You walked way more than now, you ran, you did pushups and situps and stretching exercises. If you wanted to bulk up more you bought some weights. The whole idea that you have to join a health club to be in shape is the stupidest thing I ever heard. The only consolation I ever made was to buy a treadmill so I could get my aerobics in the dead of winter. Sure, if you are at a university there are facilities so why not use them. If you were in the city there was the YMCA (I don't know I never been in one) I do know that the U.S. military relies mainly on pushups, situps and running (My info on that is a little out of date so I can't swear to it.)
I'm wracking my brain to think of how life is better now than it was in 75. My poor ass family took a long time to get AC and colored TV but we had it by the early 70's. The only thing I can think of is that electronic ignition cars were more reliable than carburetors for the average driver (gearheads liked the carburetors and rear wheel drive)'
I'm sure I have forgotten some things and will be corrected by other posters.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Withinity
Untitled

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 1,357
Loc: Côte d’Ivoire
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Is civilization really advanced? [Re: Brian Jones] 1
#23629433 - 09/09/16 03:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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It's the same thing we are talking about civilization and capitalizing really. It's an organized type of capitalism and I think its become very confusing , the church was probably easier to deal with even if they were more harsh. You knew exactly where you stood, your a slave, peasant or some other rank which most of the time would dictate your life. In other terms regarding Barbarians and 'uncivilized civilizations' they also have a pecking order though more self determined. The strongest leads or something like this.
People get so caught up and forget about the pecking order and now with the younger gens they want to change the pecking order by trying to get rid of it. That's fine but as we are still capitalizing civilization its not working out so well.
You can have so much access to information these days like never before. And that's what people want , free shit all this free shit but at the same time Pokemon'GOes up 10million in one week on the stock market. How did that happen with a free to play game? Or Windows 10 being given away for free by Microsoft...
It's not free , you pay with information , they keep getting stricter slowly by slowly, always making your own stuff harder to access , taking more personal information from you in the name of security.
Science may be neutral but Man is not and when he wields something like this I am afraid the end result of the same thing repeating will make the past atrociousness of Religion look like a little bitch.
It's so crazy, capitalizing on the capitalists a.k.a Tax making the rich get richer and the poor stay that way but it's all fucked up now because peasants think they can be kings or whatnot which is cool and all that, I'm also a peasant in this regard but you can just be a King who can't make a difference and in my book that's not really a King.
Those elitists are very real and are just doing what is natural to them , just like the nobleman or the Knight, but everyone spits on a greedy king that does not care for his people as his very existence can disturb the self fabricated reality's we create in societies that make up a civilization.
This is going to be insane, like trying to shove a cucumber into a hole as small as the top of a coke bottle. Sure your going to get some in there but its going to be extremely messy and a large portion will end up discarded on the ground. Yes, Globalization. Its happening too much and too quickly, but at the same time its kind of like this survival of the fittest shit all over again just the snake shed its skin and now maintains an alternate appearance. Cyber this, multicultural that etc..
Nature is brutal so who is judging 'too much' maybe its the ones who started getting less crumbs from the ones ontop civilization. There's alot of ways to decrease population besides the obvious shit like Atomic bombs. Just think about how many people won't carry on their seed once they figure out how to replicate sex in virtual reality which is already being worked on.
When did an Animal besides human ever grow up to live a full life when born with Disability. Civilization is always weeding out the plebs one way or another.
Go cry about Capitalism on your iPhone designed in California but made in China, you generation of inbred, degenerate technology addicts.
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Withinity
Untitled

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 1,357
Loc: Côte d’Ivoire
Last seen: 1 year, 10 months
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Re: Is civilization really advanced? [Re: Withinity]
#23629498 - 09/09/16 03:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/17/postcapitalism-end-of-capitalism-begun
Prime example of bullshit and a capitalization catering to the peoples desires through the 'information age'. Once they know what you want they can sell to you easier. Imagine you could read peoples mind's it would be easier to control and cater to them no?
Facebook:
'Tell us whats on your mind'
https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-data-science/whats-on-your-mind/477517358858/
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Is civilization really advanced? [Re: Withinity]
#23629506 - 09/09/16 03:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
It's the same thing we are talking about civilization and capitalizing really. It's an organized type of capitalism and I think its become very confusing , the church was probably easier to deal with even if they were more harsh. You knew exactly where you stood, your a slave, peasant or some other rank which most of the time would dictate your life. In other terms regarding Barbarians and 'uncivilized civilizations' they also have a pecking order though more self determined. The strongest leads or something like this.
People get so caught up and forget about the pecking order and now with the younger gens they want to change the pecking order by trying to get rid of it. That's fine but as we are still capitalizing civilization its not working out so well.
You can have so much access to information these days like never before. And that's what people want , free shit all this free shit but at the same time Pokemon'GOes up 10million in one week on the stock market. How did that happen with a free to play game? Or Windows 10 being given away for free by Microsoft...
It's not free , you pay with information , they keep getting stricter slowly by slowly, always making your own stuff harder to access , taking more personal information from you in the name of security.
Science may be neutral but Man is not and when he wields something like this I am afraid the end result of the same thing repeating will make the past atrociousness of Religion look like a little bitch.
It's so crazy, capitalizing on the capitalists a.k.a Tax making the rich get richer and the poor stay that way but it's all fucked up now because peasants think they can be kings or whatnot which is cool and all that, I'm also a peasant in this regard but you can just be a King who can't make a difference and in my book that's not really a King.
Those elitists are very real and are just doing what is natural to them , just like the nobleman or the Knight, but everyone spits on a greedy king that does not care for his people as his very existence can disturb the self fabricated reality's we create in societies that make up a civilization.
This is going to be insane, like trying to shove a cucumber into a hole as small as the top of a coke bottle. Sure your going to get some in there but its going to be extremely messy and a large portion will end up discarded on the ground. Yes, Globalization. Its happening too much and too quickly, but at the same time its kind of like this survival of the fittest shit all over again just the snake shed its skin and now maintains an alternate appearance. Cyber this, multicultural that etc..
Nature is brutal so who is judging 'too much' maybe its the ones who started getting less crumbs from the ones ontop civilization. There's alot of ways to decrease population besides the obvious shit like Atomic bombs. Just think about how many people won't carry on their seed once they figure out how to replicate sex in virtual reality which is already being worked on.
When did an Animal besides human ever grow up to live a full life when born with Disability. Civilization is always weeding out the plebs one way or another.
Go cry about Capitalism on your iPhone designed in California but made in China, you generation of inbred, degenerate technology addicts.
Interesting post, Withinity.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Is civilization really advanced? [Re: Withinity]
#23629514 - 09/09/16 03:54 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Withinity said: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/17/postcapitalism-end-of-capitalism-begun
Prime example of bullshit and a capitalization catering to the peoples desires through the 'information age'. Once they know what you want they can sell to you easier. Imagine you could read peoples mind's it would be easier to control and cater to them no?
Facebook:
'Tell us whats on your mind'
https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-data-science/whats-on-your-mind/477517358858/
Yes, well, the cornerstone of the modern global economy is the fabrication of wants. People sure get irrationally worked up over stuff.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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BrendanFlock
Stranger


Registered: 06/01/13
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Last seen: 1 day, 11 hours
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John is a looking like going out scout...which is named Birute...for the first finger..of her death..in her struts...inside and out..considering the cold war..of a person..inside and out..inside and out in side and out..the coincidence..of synchronicity.indeed a raid made by Charlie...indeed is the Rabel..Boy Housted..Eye toward the commno Quebec City!
This is CIA Code...and we can reveal what we want when we want!
CIA is a mainframe in time..just like CSIS...or MI6...so when people talk..you can take your particular aim from their words...and thats what secret police is like...each to their own..but the ultimate truth is an abomination..of how pure and holy everyone is..to the degree...that we would have to lay flat on the ground..and earing up like a serpent..to see the sun of set...which is a Set play itself..indeed is the Jargon a bitter..indeed are the rays coming in shine!
The degree that I speaketh is about Freemasonry...and I am a Grandmaster Freemason..with the 33rd Degree...in check..and because I practice at home..I can be said to be Free! Such that this is the bitterness between us..indeed we all need to teleport to our very needy hands..and feet...Such is the cosm true..for one without birth light is a carrying case for the Golden Dawn..and the New Dawn..of awareness...we are about to take over the world together..and that is the shining of 2012!
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,539
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Re: Is civilization really advanced? [Re: BrendanFlock]
#23632841 - 09/10/16 03:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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incredibly weird meaning mangled commenting style - is there any particular message in it except that "nobody will ever know what you are really thinking"?
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laughingdog
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/04
Posts: 4,828
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I think, one might say loosely speaking that, civilization was at an ok point technologically in the ‘50s, for those in the “Western world”. Major diseases under control; population more reasonable; extinction of species, and rampant pollution, still in the future. Many rural areas were still unspoiled. No disposable plastic razors, no irradiated food. No plastic island in the pacific. All the tail fins on the cars got pretty silly in the US. One could easily count the big cities. One middle class working person could feed a family And so on …
The last 65 years or so have been a strange acceleration, of more and more negative factors.
One very noticeable change to the ‘American landscape’, has been the phenomenon of franchises and ‘big box stores’. In the fifties a ‘shopping center’ was a big deal. And most stores were run by families or individuals, and had a different character from one another.
Now if you go on a road trip, and go say 1 or 2 thousand miles and are in an urban area it may actually be hard to tell where you are. This is really strange, and must have some psychological effects on folks.
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DividedQuantum
Outer Head


Registered: 12/06/13
Posts: 9,819
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Re: Is civilization really advanced? [Re: laughingdog]
#23633319 - 09/10/16 05:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes, American culture has definitely become homogenized quite a bit. With all of the corporate chains now, cities that once had dynamic personalities are losing their identity. I think this is happening to some extent in Europe as well. We're replacing uniqueness and character with a monoculture that spreads across the country.
I think it definitely must have psychological effects, but I'm not altogether sure we know what those are, or will be, yet. When the internet was just gaining steam, in the early to mid nineties, some people wrote of the fear that it would cause everyone to think in the same ways, and there would be a loss of diversity of thought. I don't know whether that's true, but I think the same could be said of the monoculture I've described. We'll see how it all goes, I guess.
-------------------- Vi Veri Universum Vivus Vici
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