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r.lutece
gave Columbia her wings.



Registered: 09/06/15
Posts: 745
Loc: ∅
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What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories?
#23602939 - 09/01/16 09:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've been reading up on some techniques that have a little (or a lot of) controversy surrounding them regarding whether or not they actually help or hurt a grow. Some examples are lengthy colonization times, adding tryptophan to the sub, lighting for 24 hours instead of 12/12, etc.
What have you come across that seemed like it needed more testing before anyone could say one way or another if it helped a flush, or increased potency?
-------------------- One goes into an experiment knowing one might fail. But one does not undertake an experiment knowing one HAS failed.
Edited by r.lutece (09/01/16 09:53 PM)
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories? [Re: r.lutece]
#23603007 - 09/01/16 10:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would say the only thing you listed that has merit and is worth running tests with, is the extended colonization (consolidation) times. The other two are demonstrably ineffective.
Something on the fence... hmm... You know, it's hard to say. I'm sure we've all debated thousands of different things here over time, but there are very few of them that it feels like are still "up for debate", so to speak. There are a few things that people argue about more often than others, like sterilizing coir, but in those cases, there's a pretty cut and dry right answer for most situations. For instance, the only time it would be better to pasteurize coir than sterilize it, is if there was actually manure in the coir for some reason, as a random contaminant or otherwise.
I would like to see the definitive proof that heat doesn't kill potency, not because I believe it does, but because I'm really tired of debating it. Then there's potency and bluing, of which there may be some correlation, but certainly no causation.
It's hard to pinpoint a facet of cultivation that isn't fairly well understood for what it is. The systems we have in place work pretty damn well, and while there's room for improvements, I don't think it can get TOO much simpler than it is without some kind of lab robotics to do actual sterile work for us. That would make it easier to set a control as well, since we're the biggest contam vector and the most unpredictable factor in the process.
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36fuckin5
Alchemycologist


Registered: 08/11/03
Posts: 12,081
Loc: Diving into Mystical Territori...
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Re: What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories? [Re: Inocuole]
#23603078 - 09/01/16 10:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Some people like different substrates than others. That's all I can think of.
Like Inocuole said, we've pretty much got it down. We can just look up information from real studies. Interested in growing Cubensis? Llook up basically any other saphrophytic, dung-loving, tropical primary decomposer. Maybe tweak it a little or make it cheaper. That's it.
-------------------- Redd Foxx said: If you're offended I don't give a shit and don't come see me no more. Pat The Bunny said: A punk rock song won't ever change the world, but I can tell you about a couple that changed me. bodhisatta said: i recommend common sense and figuring it out. These are the TEKs I use. They're all as cheap and easy as possible, just like your mom.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,502
Loc: where?
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Re: What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories? [Re: 36fuckin5]
#23603164 - 09/01/16 11:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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i love to experiment and stuff but considering the amount of horse shit(not the substrate) out there, why do we want to explore these ideas? i always jack it up when i try to use some unproven tek someone else tried. not to hate on OP at all. i like to experiment;) but id prefer to read a thread from a TC about this issue..
just my 2cents.
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lukehighwalker710
Cloud 9 Dweller



Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 609
Loc: out there
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories? [Re: mushboy]
#23603205 - 09/01/16 11:26 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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One tek I believe fits your criteria is slatting. What I gathered is it would not help your end result over the life of the sub but I am still curious if it could improve a first flush(pinset, yield, etc). I would be interested in further testing and I do plan to try a tub or two in the future.
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Highwalker
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,502
Loc: where?
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Re: What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories? [Re: lukehighwalker710]
#23603221 - 09/01/16 11:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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last thing i could find about 'slatting' is 4+ years old..Quote:
lukehighwalker710 said: What I gathered is it would not help your end result ...
so why bother?
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories? [Re: lukehighwalker710]
#23603290 - 09/02/16 12:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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IMO you just gotta try it all out yourself mate. Personally I've never done much light experiments besides prolonged direct sunlight. Which when done well has some very healthy looking fruits.
Pretty much everything involving bruising is up for debate because we don't have the equipment to test what sorts of shit is causing it. This post sums it up nicely. A psilocin solution does oxidize blue, but many indoles, amino acids, and enzymes in mushrooms that don't have psilocin but still bruise are inside cubensis mushrooms. Which actually could explain why there's different colors of bruising too.
Witch's hat for example bruises black because of L-DOPA, while boletes blue because of enzymes breaking down variegatic acid. Much like how cubensis enzymes are responsible for the breakdown of psilocin and psilocybin. Ive even seen it bruise green, I'd love to know if it's because of a different chemical.
The basic shit like fruiting conditions and surface area have already been covered, but a lot of the chemistry, and whatnot still needs a lot more research.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,502
Loc: where?
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Re: What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories? [Re: Mad Season]
#23603304 - 09/02/16 12:05 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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if only a huge.. publicly funded group could do research with huge labs and oversight to keep things transparent.. and have results labeled with integrity for medical/medicinal value... oh wait we have something similar. its called the FDA and is FSD (fucking sucks dick). ill stick to the TC's on shroomery for my scientific research.
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lukehighwalker710
Cloud 9 Dweller



Registered: 03/04/16
Posts: 609
Loc: out there
Last seen: 6 years, 1 month
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Re: What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories? [Re: mushboy]
#23603316 - 09/02/16 12:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: last thing i could find about 'slatting' is 4+ years old..Quote:
lukehighwalker710 said: What I gathered is it would not help your end result ...
so why bother?
Yep, pretty outdated and untested. Controversial. Up for debate. Hence the question in the title... Only reason I mentioned it.
Why bother improving my first flush? I have lots of time to put into mycology and I could spawn new tubs whenever I want, but I only have so much space to fruit them. Continuing to host tubs that are minimally productive becomes detrimental to efficiency when I could have a new tub in its place
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Highwalker
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MountainManDan
Stranger


Registered: 01/21/16
Posts: 298
Last seen: 4 years, 8 months
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Re: What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories? [Re: Mad Season]
#23603320 - 09/02/16 12:12 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I would like to see someone more experience than I take some isolates and run a test to determine if cutting fruits vs twisting and pulling effects contam rates for sequential flushes, then relate that to the yield difference between the two. (I suspect this has been done and have not searched it.) I guestimate I get 5% greater yields from twisting and pulling vs cutting and in my grows I find fruit stumps to be a larger vector for contams than a bit of casing ripped out. That being said many more experienced growers than I recommend cutting.
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories? [Re: MountainManDan]
#23603329 - 09/02/16 12:17 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Ah the twist and pull debate.. shit's still ongoing. I too have had more contams on stumps than craters.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,502
Loc: where?
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Re: What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories? [Re: lukehighwalker710]
#23603336 - 09/02/16 12:20 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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CORRECT IF IM WRONG ... but i could only assume the flush is limited to surface area of substrate and exposure to fruiting conditions/nutes.
how about a 360 degree suspended substrate that pins on all sides in zero g? (not trying to be sarcastic but that could be cool)
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Mad Season
hookers and blackjack



Registered: 09/16/12
Posts: 12,666
Loc: Canada
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Re: What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories? [Re: mushboy]
#23603357 - 09/02/16 12:29 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22769715#22769715
Pasty has pretty much proven that surface area will not mean more yield on many different occasions. I mean that top fruited jar has done better than most cakes, and they're exposed on all sides but the bottom.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,502
Loc: where?
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Re: What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories? [Re: Mad Season]
#23603385 - 09/02/16 12:39 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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pasty owns me hard. thanks for that link. Im going to spend the next ...[insert time frame] reading everything hes done.
its more about FAE and moisture evaporation to trigger pinning right??
thanks!
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,502
Loc: where?
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Re: What are some of the most up-for-debate or untested grow theories? [Re: lukehighwalker710]
#23603394 - 09/02/16 12:44 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
lukehighwalker710 said:
Quote:
mushboy said: last thing i could find about 'slatting' is 4+ years old..Quote:
lukehighwalker710 said: What I gathered is it would not help your end result ...
so why bother?
Yep, pretty outdated and untested. Controversial. Up for debate. Hence the question in the title... Only reason I mentioned it.
Why bother improving my first flush? I have lots of time to put into mycology and I could spawn new tubs whenever I want, but I only have so much space to fruit them. Continuing to host tubs that are minimally productive becomes detrimental to efficiency when I could have a new tub in its place 
ahh pasty even said... "So, in my opinion, if the first flush of the second tub is 33% larger than the first flush of the first tub, that IS a bigger yield, because in my area, I typically toss a substrate after the first flush anyway and replace it with a new one because keeping it around for the second flush isn't worth it when compared to what I'd be getting from a new tub."
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