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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Pasty Plate Implosion
#23599728 - 09/01/16 01:46 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just did another run of 16 mini-rounds per the tek. This time I used Eden brand Agar Agar 'Sea Vegetable Flakes' - as it is what I saw in stock at my local place o' purchase. You could look it up to see that I believe it is just fine for agar use.
Doubled up the micropore tape as these guys were going to be around for a bit. I doubled the recipe in the tek as I was going for 16 instead of 8. It came out quite perfect volume-wise during the initial "pre PC pour".
I opened up the PC after all the pressure was gone-and after they had cooled for around 4-5 hours - and noticed that most of the plates had imploded and the agar had not 'set' yet.
This is a strange occurrence as my other process seemed to be aye-okay?
Any ideas on what happened on this particular go around?
The plates are sucked in to themselves and vacuumed...same tape was used successfully before (3M Micropore).
I love the mini-rounds. They are a breeze to work with, but if they are 'unreliable' than I might be ordering a few hundred petri's soon!
Shoot me some knowledge. Thanks everyone!
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Boogieman47
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23599775 - 09/01/16 02:13 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Seems weird man I poke a hole with a leather man or screw so it's small ? Never had that happen did you forget to poke holes? I space out alot and forget to label or other shit not saying you do but if they imploded I would think there was no pressure relief
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Boogieman47
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I actually have jars that are indented not terribly bad but noticeable and those were packed really tight with poly
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
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It sounds like you had a vacuum created in the PC when it depressurized.
Petris are way way better than those containers.
Give them a try... pouring agar from a bottle is easy
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Boogieman47
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What's up swazey?? What do you think would cause a vacuum? I know if I'm cooking while my lady is and she shuts the oven too hard it shakes while depressurising could that do it?
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
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Sometimes it happens when you don't open the cooker for awhile after sterilizing.
AA units with the flip down style vent are especially bad about it.
I'm guessing OP ran the load & went to work or bed, then opened it a while later?
I usually run a load before going to sleep and almost always have to leverage the lid in the morning to get it off.
It's a bad practice because contaminates can get sucked in through filters during the vacuum, but for me running them late at night is just the way she goes most of the time
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Boogieman47
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Oh OK ... also Morty I had the agar not solidify on me once I didn't let the flakes melt all the way and it was still really runny cause I just dumped the liquid in the bottle and tossed the left over I thought I was mostly potato flakes not sure if that happened with you
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
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Quote:
PirateSwazey said: It sounds like you had a vacuum created in the PC when it depressurized.
+1
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: Adden]
#23600122 - 09/01/16 06:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hmm,
PCing was complete at around 10pm and lid was removed around 3am. I drilled a 1/4inch hole in all 16 lids for sure. The only other thing I can think of is that I doubled the micropore tape this time around instead of single. (3M "Durabond" tape was used. Maybe it was tape type even though it is micropore and breathable?)
Regardless, I think it's time for glassware!
It's also time for me to get to bed at a decent hour when I know i have work at 8am!
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PirateSwazey


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Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23600368 - 09/01/16 09:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Plastic petris ftw Morty!
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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... Seriously though, I've never had this happen in years of doing no pour, so 
You had to have been doing something wrong, like not having an adequate GE hole. No matter if there was a vacuum in the PC or not, a properly vented dish shouldn't have any issues. You don't have to do pour agar to get around this. People will try to push you toward the methods they like, but, seriously, no pour has plenty of merits and I feel it's worth the prep time and space.
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: Inocuole]
#23600421 - 09/01/16 09:20 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: ... Seriously though, I've never had this happen in years of doing no pour, so 
You had to have been doing something wrong, like not having an adequate GE hole. No matter if there was a vacuum in the PC or not, a properly vented dish shouldn't have any issues. You don't have to do pour agar to get around this. People will try to push you toward the methods they like, but, seriously, no pour has plenty of merits and I feel it's worth the prep time and space.
Thanks Inocuole, I was indeed ready to tiger drop the fuck out of some agar! I like the idea of PP5's for agar.
Could it be the foil? I doubled up foil tightly around the edges of the PP5's lids. Geez man- I have no clue what I did in this procedure to have these things implode.

Will update with pics when I get home and off mobile...
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Inocuole
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422] 1
#23600425 - 09/01/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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It could be the foil yeah if it was able to form a seal against your GE hole. Foil doesn't need to be too tight, especially around the top. Put the GE hole in one of the depressions in the lid so it can't be covered.
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mushboy
modboy



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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23600458 - 09/01/16 09:30 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morty422 said: I doubled up foil tightly around the edges
that could be the answer. i recycle the foil i use to cover lids n such. and i barely even cover the lid. just place on it so water doesnt drip into/onto the tape or polyfil or whatever else.
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: mushboy]
#23600581 - 09/01/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: It could be the foil yeah if it was able to form a seal against your GE hole. Foil doesn't need to be too tight, especially around the top. Put the GE hole in one of the depressions in the lid so it can't be covered.
Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
morty422 said: I doubled up foil tightly around the edges
that could be the answer. i recycle the foil i use to cover lids n such. and i barely even cover the lid. just place on it so water doesnt drip into/onto the tape or polyfil or whatever else.
This is the most likely answer as to why my plates imploded. I had double layers of foil wrapped super tight and my GE holes are on the top 'button' area of the PP5s...
KHAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNN!
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mushboy
modboy



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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23600592 - 09/01/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: mushboy]
#23600828 - 09/01/16 11:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:

 I wonder if I can salvage them somehow...
"Remedial Pasty Plates"... baha
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: mushboy]
#23600829 - 09/01/16 11:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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LOL
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23600868 - 09/01/16 11:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morty422 said:
Quote:
mushboy said:

 I wonder if I can salvage them somehow...
Salvage the actual agar or the deformed plates? If the plates are warped you could put them in boiling water and see if they can be massaged back into shape. But the lids may not fit. People heat plastics in vegetable oil past 100C so they become more pliable.
I have had set agar which then cooked at 100C for prolonged times and it became liquid. I expect it can happen at high temps too, is there any chance it was cooked at too high a pressure/temp?
If the PC cools down fast the jars/dishes cannot suck in air fast enough through the filter, or in your case double filter and foil. If I am worried about it I will slow down the cooling time. You can leave it on the still warm hob to slow down cooling, or you can turn down the power on the hob so it is still actually getting some heat but not enough to boil the water in the PC.
I have a lot of tubs I use for agar and have SHIPs on them, but I usually only use the SHIPs as vents, I have shitloads of needles hanging about so just put them in the SHIP as it goes in the PC, when cooled down I simply pull them back out.
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23601070 - 09/01/16 12:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here they are...



I lost 10 total to "Pasty Implosion" (which is also my new term for anything bad that happens to any of my grows for now on)
I'm currently PCing another 5 plates with one layer of micropore on 2 of the plates and two layers of micropore on 3 of the plates.
All 5 have loose, single, foil over them.
We'll see what happens!
If the double taped plates all Pasty Implode - I'll know what happened...
If they are all okay - than I'll blame it on my (insert sexual tightness joke here) foil.
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Boogieman47
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23601096 - 09/01/16 01:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Maybe the paper was blocking the Hoke too be honest I don't use the paper towel never had a boil over
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Quote:
noob47 said: Maybe the paper was blocking the Hoke too be honest I don't use the paper towel never had a boil over
I thought the paper towels were for condensation and not getting the MP tape wet?
Quote:
Pastywhyte said: Finally I like to fold up a square of paper towel and place on top. Condensation can be a bit of an issue and you don't want to get the micro pore tape too wet. The paper towel helps with this.
So you're saying you don't use the paper towel and your tape never gets wet?
I might skip the towel portion of the tek if that's the case!
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Boogieman47
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23601169 - 09/01/16 01:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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No I was wrong then I could of swore the paper towel was just in case boiling over my bad it's been awhile since I read that tek my tape does seem a bit wet without it but out of months of using them I've only changed tape once
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Quote:
noob47 said: No I was wrong then I could of swore the paper towel was just in case boiling over my bad it's been awhile since I read that tek my tape does seem a bit wet without it but out of months of using them I've only changed tape once
Noted.
My paper towels weren't wet in the slightest... A little bit of condensation around the edge of the foil but nothing underneath.
Almost like a grain jar.
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Boogieman47
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23601240 - 09/01/16 01:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ya mine either it's just extra precautions I guess it's up to the person
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Dactylium
Don't touch me I'm sterile


Registered: 08/12/16
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How much water are you using in your pressure cooker? If you put in too little there won't be enough thermal mass and the cooker will cool off too quickly. I imploded a bunch of pasty plates that way.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: Dactylium]
#23601544 - 09/01/16 03:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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You can't crush something in a vacuum if that thing doesn't form a seal. It's just not possible.
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: Inocuole]
#23601607 - 09/01/16 03:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: You can't crush something in a vacuum if that thing doesn't form a seal. It's just not possible.
And the verdict is......
My tape!
This time around the 3 PP5s with double tape over the GE hole all sucked into themselves. The two plates with one layer of tape were perfectly fine. It seems like the double layer of Durabond 3m tape does not allow enough exchange for the PP5 container to stay non-'Pasty Imploded' in my PC. I believe this could be negated by bringing up the pressure extremely slowly, but I would rather just continue on with my present solution - which is to only use one layer of tape.
This could have been coincidental, but that is unlikely. I will be creating another 16 plates later on tonight and I will report back if any other plates 'Pasty Implode'.
Inocuole, what do you think about the above? Have your plates ever deformed at all while PCing?...even in the slightest?
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mushboy
modboy



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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: Dactylium]
#23601613 - 09/01/16 03:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Dactylium said: How much water are you using in your pressure cooker? If you put in too little there won't be enough thermal mass and the cooker will cool off too quickly. I imploded a bunch of pasty plates that way.
i recently posted about how LITTLE water i use. i took these plates out after a few hours.

Trusted Cultivator mentioned thermal mass of the water in a post but im curious about the thermal mass of my burning to the touch pc that is 10 lbs ??
correct me if im wrong ..... ....
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23601614 - 09/01/16 03:49 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morty422 said: Inocuole, what do you think about the above? Have your plates ever deformed at all while PCing?...even in the slightest?
Not even a little. If all the ones with double tape fucked up, and all the ones with single tape didn't, that's pretty cut and dry.
Quote:
mushboy said:
i recently posted about how LITTLE water i use. i took these plates out after a few hours.

Trusted Cultivator mentioned thermal mass of the water in a post but im curious about the thermal mass of my burning to the touch pc that is 10 lbs ??
correct me if im wrong ..... .... 
Uh.. I'm thinking you can use however much water you can get away with, it's not a problem that will have any effect on a properly constructed container.
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mushboy
modboy



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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: Inocuole]
#23601660 - 09/01/16 04:05 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morty422 said: This could have been coincidental, but that is unlikely. I will be creating another 16 plates later on tonight and I will report back if any other plates 'Pasty Implode'.
yah its the tape..
i just realized the last batch of plates i made i used a tiny square of tyvek and taped around the edges leaving the tyvek exposed above the hole w/out tape covering it directly... if that makes sense. simply because i was bored.
but they didnt melt
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Boogieman47
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: mushboy]
#23601784 - 09/01/16 04:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I got this at a thrift shop it's just a veggie steamer rack I put the trivet on top and have a regular amount of water and still can get about 30 plates done in one session
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spore-ty



Registered: 01/21/16
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Sorry to thread Jack but are plastic Petris one time use only?
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
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duuuudeeee..
besides mycology my other main hobby with cooking.. ive got a few of those.. never thought to use one!
thanks for sharing that!
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: spore-ty]
#23601803 - 09/01/16 04:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
spore-ty said: Sorry to thread Jack but are plastic Petris one time use only?
Yes.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: spore-ty]
#23601810 - 09/01/16 04:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
spore-ty said: Sorry to thread Jack but are plastic Petris one time use only?
no ...pp5 plastics can be reused. look for pp5.. i recently found out the container my won-ton soup comes in can be used.
pp5 is also healthier compared to most plastics.. google around. interesting reading
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Inocuole
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: mushboy]
#23601824 - 09/01/16 04:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah but he's asking about petris. This is longer than a thread jack should go on for... Plastic petris are one time use only, unless specifically stated otherwise.
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spore-ty



Registered: 01/21/16
Posts: 1,028
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: Inocuole]
#23601857 - 09/01/16 04:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Yeah but he's asking about petris. This is longer than a thread jack should go on for... Plastic petris are one time use only, unless specifically stated otherwise.
Sorry again and thanks again haha gonna make my own thread
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie


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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: spore-ty]
#23601945 - 09/01/16 05:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ya the problem is the plates will fall over so if you don't catch them still warm you have a glob on one side but besides that works fine
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Kenetic
Nam Sayin



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So you learned your lesson. Make sure you have some good ge in your lid. At least you still have two to work with.
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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Mushierage
SWIM Sinker



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That's what she said.
Touché!
-------------------- Don't like researching posts? Read this! . Also, if you're new and your posts contain the words: Humidifer, incubator, air-stone, or heater, then you need to read and UTFSE before asking people to review your setup. OR... You should be cultivating reptiles and fish, not mushrooms.
  
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wtfcrazymofo
foil hater



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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23602174 - 09/01/16 06:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morty422 said: Here they are...



I lost 10 total to "Pasty Implosion" (which is also my new term for anything bad that happens to any of my grows for now on)
I'm currently PCing another 5 plates with one layer of micropore on 2 of the plates and two layers of micropore on 3 of the plates.
All 5 have loose, single, foil over them.
We'll see what happens!
If the double taped plates all Pasty Implode - I'll know what happened...
If they are all okay - than I'll blame it on my (insert sexual tightness joke here) foil.

This happened to me when I doubled up my mp tape. When I single layered it only one or 2 would implode.
I cant find the exact mp tape pastey uses in my area.
It isn't a total loss you can still nock um. They push back out to shape. Fix them after your done with your transfers though.
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: Kenetic]
#23602216 - 09/01/16 06:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
kenetic said: So you learned your lesson. Make sure you have some good ge in your lid. At least you still have two to work with.
Well, I did have 8. (16-10 at the beginning plus 2 is 8)
Now I have 36 more in the PC.
Not to mention the first 16 I did before this post.
Me has agar...
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Quote:
wtfcrazymofo said:
Quote:
morty422 said: Here they are...



I lost 10 total to "Pasty Implosion" (which is also my new term for anything bad that happens to any of my grows for now on)
I'm currently PCing another 5 plates with one layer of micropore on 2 of the plates and two layers of micropore on 3 of the plates.
All 5 have loose, single, foil over them.
We'll see what happens!
If the double taped plates all Pasty Implode - I'll know what happened...
If they are all okay - than I'll blame it on my (insert sexual tightness joke here) foil.

This happened to me when I doubled up my mp tape. When I single layered it only one or 2 would implode.
I cant find the exact mp tape pastey uses in my area.
It isn't a total loss you can still nock um. They push back out to shape. Fix them after your done with your transfers though.
Explain to me how one would effectively use this for agar work...
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wtfcrazymofo
foil hater



Registered: 07/26/15
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23602296 - 09/01/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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put it in a sab, flip it over, remove foil, lid(no more than 2 seconds). during the less than 2 seconds not going over the media. knock up with ms syringe drop, or fresh mushroom tissue.
Just cuz it looks like a crumpled up paper don't mean you gotta waste agar op.
Not very good for isolate transfers though cuz you will have a harder time tellen from the crumpley texture.
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
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wtfcrazymofo
foil hater



Registered: 07/26/15
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Last seen: 13 hours, 39 minutes
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Quote:
wtfcrazymofo said: Not very good for isolate transfers though cuz you will have a harder time tellen from the crumpley texture.
That is where regular plates come in handy.
-------------------- If you want to eat->https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/8553541 Bag sealers are to bulky (my hood isn't that big) https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/28622922
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Kenetic
Nam Sayin



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having fun talking to yourself?
I agree that plates are pretty easy.
-------------------- Todo Cambia    DMT said: Everyone know's me, they just don't know it yet
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Quote:
wtfcrazymofo said: put it in a sab, flip it over, remove foil, lid(no more than 2 seconds). during the less than 2 seconds not going over the media. knock up with ms syringe drop, or fresh mushroom tissue.
Just cuz it looks like a crumpled up paper don't mean you gotta waste agar op.
Not very good for isolate transfers though cuz you will have a harder time tellen from the crumpley texture.

Waste agar?
That thing's fucked man...
Not trying to screw with you or anything, but there's no way I'm using that for anything cultivation related! Hahaha!
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23603020 - 09/01/16 10:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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if using pasty plates, the agar is like 10cents. wasting agar is something to consider if you buy it pre-made.
i think food coloring is the most expensive thing in the equation..besides the container.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: mushboy]
#23603023 - 09/01/16 10:18 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well the lesson there is don't buy pre made agar, shit's way too easy to make at home. Easier than most of the shit we do.
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: mushboy]
#23603065 - 09/01/16 10:28 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: Well the lesson there is don't buy pre made agar, shit's way too easy to make at home. Easier than most of the shit we do.
Truth.
Quote:
mushboy said: if using pasty plates, the agar is like 10cents. wasting agar is something to consider if you buy it pre-made.
i think food coloring is the most expensive thing in the equation..besides the container.
I don't care about my agar....I care about my time wasted attempting to perform agar work in a crumpled-up piece of plastic...
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23603126 - 09/01/16 10:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Oh i agree!!.. i wasnt disagreeing with you but with mofo about 'saving agar'
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: mushboy]
#23603251 - 09/01/16 11:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said: Oh i agree!!.. i wasnt disagreeing with you but with mofo about 'saving agar'
Yeah, sorry. Should have clarified.

We on the same page!
Fuck that Pasty Plate... haha... Would YOU use that thing for any of your agar work?
lmao
That thing looks ate up like a shit sandwich...
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23603279 - 09/01/16 11:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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:pastypalm:
edit: damn no pasty palm in the gifs/gremlins. weak. maybe we could use this one? (i used it the other day)
 but i feel patsy needs something more fitting and distinguished...
Edited by mushboy (09/02/16 12:10 AM)
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: mushboy]
#23603300 - 09/02/16 12:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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