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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Pasty Plate Implosion
#23599728 - 09/01/16 01:46 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Just did another run of 16 mini-rounds per the tek. This time I used Eden brand Agar Agar 'Sea Vegetable Flakes' - as it is what I saw in stock at my local place o' purchase. You could look it up to see that I believe it is just fine for agar use.
Doubled up the micropore tape as these guys were going to be around for a bit. I doubled the recipe in the tek as I was going for 16 instead of 8. It came out quite perfect volume-wise during the initial "pre PC pour".
I opened up the PC after all the pressure was gone-and after they had cooled for around 4-5 hours - and noticed that most of the plates had imploded and the agar had not 'set' yet.
This is a strange occurrence as my other process seemed to be aye-okay?
Any ideas on what happened on this particular go around?
The plates are sucked in to themselves and vacuumed...same tape was used successfully before (3M Micropore).
I love the mini-rounds. They are a breeze to work with, but if they are 'unreliable' than I might be ordering a few hundred petri's soon!
Shoot me some knowledge. Thanks everyone!
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23599775 - 09/01/16 02:13 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Seems weird man I poke a hole with a leather man or screw so it's small ? Never had that happen did you forget to poke holes? I space out alot and forget to label or other shit not saying you do but if they imploded I would think there was no pressure relief
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
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I actually have jars that are indented not terribly bad but noticeable and those were packed really tight with poly
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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It sounds like you had a vacuum created in the PC when it depressurized.
Petris are way way better than those containers.
Give them a try... pouring agar from a bottle is easy
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
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What's up swazey?? What do you think would cause a vacuum? I know if I'm cooking while my lady is and she shuts the oven too hard it shakes while depressurising could that do it?
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Sometimes it happens when you don't open the cooker for awhile after sterilizing.
AA units with the flip down style vent are especially bad about it.
I'm guessing OP ran the load & went to work or bed, then opened it a while later?
I usually run a load before going to sleep and almost always have to leverage the lid in the morning to get it off.
It's a bad practice because contaminates can get sucked in through filters during the vacuum, but for me running them late at night is just the way she goes most of the time
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Boogieman47
Let's boogie


Registered: 03/05/16
Posts: 9,712
Loc: Under your bed
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Oh OK ... also Morty I had the agar not solidify on me once I didn't let the flakes melt all the way and it was still really runny cause I just dumped the liquid in the bottle and tossed the left over I thought I was mostly potato flakes not sure if that happened with you
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
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Quote:
PirateSwazey said: It sounds like you had a vacuum created in the PC when it depressurized.
+1
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: Adden]
#23600122 - 09/01/16 06:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Hmm,
PCing was complete at around 10pm and lid was removed around 3am. I drilled a 1/4inch hole in all 16 lids for sure. The only other thing I can think of is that I doubled the micropore tape this time around instead of single. (3M "Durabond" tape was used. Maybe it was tape type even though it is micropore and breathable?)
Regardless, I think it's time for glassware!
It's also time for me to get to bed at a decent hour when I know i have work at 8am!
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PirateSwazey


Registered: 12/12/12
Posts: 2,993
Loc: Here, Now
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23600368 - 09/01/16 09:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Plastic petris ftw Morty!
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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... Seriously though, I've never had this happen in years of doing no pour, so 
You had to have been doing something wrong, like not having an adequate GE hole. No matter if there was a vacuum in the PC or not, a properly vented dish shouldn't have any issues. You don't have to do pour agar to get around this. People will try to push you toward the methods they like, but, seriously, no pour has plenty of merits and I feel it's worth the prep time and space.
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: Inocuole]
#23600421 - 09/01/16 09:20 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: ... Seriously though, I've never had this happen in years of doing no pour, so 
You had to have been doing something wrong, like not having an adequate GE hole. No matter if there was a vacuum in the PC or not, a properly vented dish shouldn't have any issues. You don't have to do pour agar to get around this. People will try to push you toward the methods they like, but, seriously, no pour has plenty of merits and I feel it's worth the prep time and space.
Thanks Inocuole, I was indeed ready to tiger drop the fuck out of some agar! I like the idea of PP5's for agar.
Could it be the foil? I doubled up foil tightly around the edges of the PP5's lids. Geez man- I have no clue what I did in this procedure to have these things implode.

Will update with pics when I get home and off mobile...
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
Posts: 24,863
Loc: ★
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422] 1
#23600425 - 09/01/16 09:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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It could be the foil yeah if it was able to form a seal against your GE hole. Foil doesn't need to be too tight, especially around the top. Put the GE hole in one of the depressions in the lid so it can't be covered.
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23600458 - 09/01/16 09:30 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morty422 said: I doubled up foil tightly around the edges
that could be the answer. i recycle the foil i use to cover lids n such. and i barely even cover the lid. just place on it so water doesnt drip into/onto the tape or polyfil or whatever else.
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: mushboy]
#23600581 - 09/01/16 10:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Inocuole said: It could be the foil yeah if it was able to form a seal against your GE hole. Foil doesn't need to be too tight, especially around the top. Put the GE hole in one of the depressions in the lid so it can't be covered.
Quote:
mushboy said:
Quote:
morty422 said: I doubled up foil tightly around the edges
that could be the answer. i recycle the foil i use to cover lids n such. and i barely even cover the lid. just place on it so water doesnt drip into/onto the tape or polyfil or whatever else.
This is the most likely answer as to why my plates imploded. I had double layers of foil wrapped super tight and my GE holes are on the top 'button' area of the PP5s...
KHAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNNNN!
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mushboy
modboy



Registered: 04/24/05
Posts: 32,281
Loc: where?
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23600592 - 09/01/16 10:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: mushboy]
#23600828 - 09/01/16 11:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
mushboy said:

 I wonder if I can salvage them somehow...
"Remedial Pasty Plates"... baha
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Adden

Registered: 06/04/03
Posts: 39,201
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: mushboy]
#23600829 - 09/01/16 11:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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LOL
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
Posts: 5,266
Last seen: 2 months, 25 days
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23600868 - 09/01/16 11:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morty422 said:
Quote:
mushboy said:

 I wonder if I can salvage them somehow...
Salvage the actual agar or the deformed plates? If the plates are warped you could put them in boiling water and see if they can be massaged back into shape. But the lids may not fit. People heat plastics in vegetable oil past 100C so they become more pliable.
I have had set agar which then cooked at 100C for prolonged times and it became liquid. I expect it can happen at high temps too, is there any chance it was cooked at too high a pressure/temp?
If the PC cools down fast the jars/dishes cannot suck in air fast enough through the filter, or in your case double filter and foil. If I am worried about it I will slow down the cooling time. You can leave it on the still warm hob to slow down cooling, or you can turn down the power on the hob so it is still actually getting some heat but not enough to boil the water in the PC.
I have a lot of tubs I use for agar and have SHIPs on them, but I usually only use the SHIPs as vents, I have shitloads of needles hanging about so just put them in the SHIP as it goes in the PC, when cooled down I simply pull them back out.
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morty422
Wuba-luba-dub-dub!



Registered: 07/06/16
Posts: 988
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Re: Pasty Plate Implosion [Re: morty422]
#23601070 - 09/01/16 12:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here they are...



I lost 10 total to "Pasty Implosion" (which is also my new term for anything bad that happens to any of my grows for now on)
I'm currently PCing another 5 plates with one layer of micropore on 2 of the plates and two layers of micropore on 3 of the plates.
All 5 have loose, single, foil over them.
We'll see what happens!
If the double taped plates all Pasty Implode - I'll know what happened...
If they are all okay - than I'll blame it on my (insert sexual tightness joke here) foil.
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