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Invisible2Experimental
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Registered: 01/15/03
Posts: 18,073
When and Why did the concious split occur?
    #2359907 - 02/20/04 04:44 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Way back when, when the first one cell organisms were thriving in the deep waters of the void, and eventually became what we are today, where did the split occur between animal(conciouss) and plant(not- concious) Now Im sure some will argue that plants " know" how to photosynthezise, grow towards the light ECT making them aware, but Im talking about animal traits, survivial, thoughts, so on. Where did the conciousness come from? Certainly it did not evolve from the original cells? How can something unprovable by science(thoughts) come from something they can prove, certainly there is an unknown factor involved?? Why did plants choose to do stuff the way they did to survive, when they could have taken the route via animal and been a consumer, not producer, ensuring thier survival on a larger scale.. If as some people say(in a recent swami post I think) that the primary mechanism for all life motivation is survival and fear, why did things happen the way they did? Can not others agree that there was SOME sort of "plan" for how it all happened?? If what we beleive today to be true, why isent every living organism a carnivor, hunter and preyer, why did some things settle for " passive" Why dont tree's fight back when the human cuts it down, why dont rocks crush the people trying to farm them for houses... where did the first ego come from? anyone get what Im hinting at??


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Offlinepattern
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Registered: 07/19/02
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Re: When and Why did the concious split occur? [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2360150 - 02/20/04 05:40 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

How can something unprovable by science(thoughts) come from something they can prove, certainly there is an unknown factor involved??

Certainly there are some unknown factors, science doesn't know everything about the human brain.  I think science can prove the existence of thoughts, but can't predict what they will be.

Why did plants choose to do stuff the way they did to survive,

At the time, it was the best strategy.

when they could have taken the route via animal and been a consumer,

Plants cant take that route if there are no plants to consume.  Its like asking: why doesnt everyone be the boss of a company instead of an employee?

not producer, ensuring thier survival on a larger scale..

Plants ARE surviving on a large scale.

If as some people say(in a recent swami post I think) that the primary mechanism for all life motivation is survival and fear, why did things happen the way they did? Can not others agree that there was SOME sort of "plan" for how it all happened?? If what we beleive today to be true,

The "survival and fear" theory is just opinion.  If it were true, why is there happiness, fun, and love?  Negative thinking only gets you half the picture.

why isent every living organism a carnivor, hunter and preyer, why did some things settle for " passive"
Why dont tree's fight back when the human cuts it down, why dont rocks crush the people trying to farm them for houses...


Trees don't fight back because... they can't fight back.  And rocks don't have a brain, senses, etc.  For some forms to evolve, they must evolve from pre-existing forms.  Yet because new forms evolved, doesn't mean that the old forms go away.  We know that there weren't carnivors at some point in time, so they evolved from "non-carnivors". 

In order for there to be a tree that fights, there would have to be a regular tree first.  So maybe a million years from now there will be fighting trees, but if there were, there would probably still be normal trees too, because the existence of a fighting tree would be more "expensive" and wouldnt be able to replace all the "cheap" trees.  Everything has its place, and serves a useful function, even if it isn't a killing machine.

where did the first ego come from? anyone get what Im hinting at??

I think the first ego probably came from the earliest humans, upon becoming aware of their reflections.

my two cents  :sun:


--------------------
man = monkey + mushroom


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OfflinePHARMAKOS
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Registered: 09/13/02
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Re: When and Why did the concious split occur? [Re: pattern]
    #2360168 - 02/20/04 05:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

terrance mckenna said conciousness originated when the first monkey ate a magic mushroom

(kindof)


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OfflineAtomisk
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Registered: 02/09/04
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Re: When and Why did the concious split occur? [Re: 2Experimental]
    #2360380 - 02/20/04 06:45 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Is consciousness a natural consequence of neurological evolution? Some researchers think so, but they can't yet prove it. Others object, suggesting that some specific, perhaps unlikely mechanism is required for its development; they argue that the capacity for imagery and imagination represents something more than just a continued accumulation of neurons.
Some researchers contend that consciousness, as we know it, is not manifest in ancestral records until about a few thousand years ago.
If modern chimps which display rudimentary self-awareness, do, in fact, mimic our australopithecine forebears, then consciousness could have been a factor millions of years ago.
A compromise idea can possibly reconcile these two seemingly divergent views. For example, prehistoric humans may have developed a crude sense of consciousness as early as a million years ago, but only recently did they become sophisticated enough to reveal that sense of wonder and self-awareness in their writings.


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o house-builder! thou art seen. thou shalt build no house again. all thy rafters are broken. thy ridge-pole is shattered.


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: When and Why did the concious split occur? [Re: Atomisk]
    #2373472 - 02/23/04 10:10 PM (12 years, 9 months ago)

Wow, you all really have some disparate definitions of consciousness. Lilly and Goodall, et al aside, I think we're alone in that. In point of fact, Julian Jaynes argued that WE were not "conscious" until very recently. Something about a Bicameral Mind. Don't recall the particulars (or the spelling).


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