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howsyournaggerdoin
Happy


Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23624825 - 09/08/16 06:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I think they will have to reschedule it once kratom extracts make it through clinical trials and get FDA approval. The question is which schedule they would put it in. My best guess would be that theyll just roll a dice
Edited by howsyournaggerdoin (09/08/16 06:11 AM)
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: badchad]
#23624853 - 09/08/16 06:25 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
badchad said:
Quote:
CookieCrumbs said:
Seems a bit silly to say a drug has no medicinal value and grant patents on its medicinal compounds.
The patent process and scheduling process are separate entities. Its probably obvious that you can patent something without it being scheduled and vice versa.
Generally speaking "medicinal value" means "FDA approved," and that involves a lot of time and money. Thats why most drugs are patented before all that effort is put in.
Yeah good point. But there are plenty of whole herbs that have medicinal value. Even the medical community begrudgingly admits that. And the FDA hasn't approved most of them.
I'm just saying it's silly.
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Free time is the only time
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howsyournaggerdoin
Happy


Registered: 02/04/16
Posts: 1,600
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23624865 - 09/08/16 06:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Well the FDA doesnt want to be responsible for creating another Contergan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide). They require everything to be throughly tested which costs a lot of money unfortunately. Money which drug companies will only invest if they see commercial value in doing so.
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23624877 - 09/08/16 06:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said:
Yeah good point. But there are plenty of whole herbs that have medicinal value. Even the medical community begrudgingly admits that. And the FDA hasn't approved most of them.
I'm just saying it's silly.
Perhaps. I guess the point is that "medicinal value" implies a lot of validation, including clinical trials. For example, thousands of physicians acknowledging that an herb "works" and centuries of historic use doesn't meet the legal standard. On one hand its silly, but on the other hand the intent is to prevent "snake oil" salespersons.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: badchad]
#23625060 - 09/08/16 08:28 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I suppose.
It seems silly you can have a valid patent on an illegal substance too. Or is the patented compound not included in the ban?
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Free time is the only time
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: morrowasted]
#23625072 - 09/08/16 08:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: I could rave at everyone who uses it for pure recreation reasons, as that is predominately what it is used for and surely what has caused attention to it.
I didn't want to use kratom because it was so similar to opiates. Instead I suffered for years with chronic pain until I became a very bitter person that dreamed only of suicide. Only when I had a mental break did I give it a chance. And it has given me the most functional life I have ever had for the last 3 years. I hate depending on any drug. But this one was tolerable, both to my body and to my mind and it helped me manage the pain well enough that I could have a life. A decent work life without calling out all the time. A decent social life without cancelling plans all the time.
It's not "just quit" for me. I could be mad at all the people who have recreationally used and abused it like you for helping to throw away the one good light in a deep dark hole of chronic pain... but I won't. I've been sitting here crying for the last hour instead. This is devastating for me. I'm legitimately scared to once again deal with the pain with nothing to really hold it back or control it. More so I'm scared of the person I will become with having to deal with it. Opiates, no opiates, I lose.
Unless I find something else. But in years of research I haven't found anything half as effective or safe as kratom. It's beyond shitty for me man.
look into akuamma seeds
I've looked into these and can't find anything on side effects or risks. Do you know of anything along them lines morrow?
--------------------
Free time is the only time
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Zombi3
Bella Ciao!!



Registered: 01/11/13
Posts: 27,086
Loc: Bat Country
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: CookieCrumbs] 5
#23625198 - 09/08/16 09:30 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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For fuck sake the more reading you do the more you're inclined to hate the DEA's criminal organization. Those fuckers absolutely do not have our wellbeing in mind.
-------------------- You’ve Met With A Terrible Fate, Haven’t You?
Click here to enter this weeks Ban Lottery!! In Crust We Trust
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badchad
Mad Scientist

Registered: 03/02/05
Posts: 13,372
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23625377 - 09/08/16 10:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: I suppose.
It seems silly you can have a valid patent on an illegal substance too. Or is the patented compound not included in the ban?
I believe you can have a patent on an "illegal" substance. This is because schedules can change, albeit rarely. The example I'm thinking of is THC. THC is schedule 1, but once marinol met the legal requirements of "accepted medical use" it was down scheduled.
-------------------- ...the whole experience is (and is as) a profound piece of knowledge. It is an indellible experience; it is forever known. I have known myself in a way I doubt I would have ever occurred except as it did. Smith, P. Bull. Menninger Clinic (1959) 23:20-27; p. 27. ...most subjects find the experience valuable, some find it frightening, and many say that is it uniquely lovely. Osmond, H. Annals, NY Acad Science (1957) 66:418-434; p.436
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: badchad]
#23625463 - 09/08/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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So someone should patent heroin now before the war on drugs ends
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Free time is the only time
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BANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson


Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 6 months, 3 days
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23625501 - 09/08/16 11:29 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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CookieCrumbs
Fucked off to the pub


Registered: 12/10/11
Posts: 14,146
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: BANANA.MAN]
#23625566 - 09/08/16 11:46 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Ah yeah I remember reading about that when I was looking into retro medicine. They called it heroin hydrochloride... Which makes me wonder which specific compounds are technically heroin. After all other opium based chemicals aren't terribly different. Least not to me in my basic understanding of chemistry.
I know that LE would probably label any 'homemade' opiate as heroin but I'm sure what is cited in the schedule 1 ban is a very specific compound or set of compounds. Hmmnumm
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Free time is the only time
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hex_enduction
satta massa gana



Registered: 01/26/14
Posts: 12,051
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23625573 - 09/08/16 11:48 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: So someone should patent heroin now before the war on drugs ends 
I think Bayer beat everyone to the punch a century ago. I remember a user here had an old pic in his sig of a bottle of Bayer brand heroin back when it was available over the counter
--------------------
Connoisseur said: oh ive cried on drugs sunshine said: Tragic. I told the cop not to do it but he didn't listen.
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BANANA.MAN
Turd Ferguson


Registered: 01/11/15
Posts: 7,474
Loc: Ontario Canada
Last seen: 6 months, 3 days
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: hex_enduction]
#23625638 - 09/08/16 12:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah that pic is in the link i posted.
Edited by BANANA.MAN (09/08/16 12:13 PM)
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LuSiD enthusiast
Stranger

Registered: 03/14/13
Posts: 4,325
Last seen: 4 years, 9 months
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: hex_enduction] 1
#23625662 - 09/08/16 12:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
hex_enduction said:
Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: So someone should patent heroin now before the war on drugs ends 
I think Bayer beat everyone to the punch a century ago. I remember a user here had an old pic in his sig of a bottle of Bayer brand heroin back when it was available over the counter 
My phone plays a slideshow when i plug it in to charge. So i went and put in a bunch of vintage snake oil and old timey heroin advertisements to display when i plug it in.
-------------------- I'm addicted to coke, weed, booze, ludes and speed. Not LSD, you can't get addicted to LSD, it was built by scientists. I ain't got no demons that gonna get woke. In erowid we trust. Just take your damn pills and don't ask any questions, you'll be fine.
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danielx
whatup!


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 6,500
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: danielx] 1
#23625940 - 09/08/16 02:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Here is the joe rogan snippet talking about kratom:
-------------------- Long live kratom
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 5 days, 2 hours
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: CookieCrumbs]
#23625948 - 09/08/16 02:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
CookieCrumbs said:
Quote:
morrowasted said:
Quote:
CookieCrumbs said: I could rave at everyone who uses it for pure recreation reasons, as that is predominately what it is used for and surely what has caused attention to it.
I didn't want to use kratom because it was so similar to opiates. Instead I suffered for years with chronic pain until I became a very bitter person that dreamed only of suicide. Only when I had a mental break did I give it a chance. And it has given me the most functional life I have ever had for the last 3 years. I hate depending on any drug. But this one was tolerable, both to my body and to my mind and it helped me manage the pain well enough that I could have a life. A decent work life without calling out all the time. A decent social life without cancelling plans all the time.
It's not "just quit" for me. I could be mad at all the people who have recreationally used and abused it like you for helping to throw away the one good light in a deep dark hole of chronic pain... but I won't. I've been sitting here crying for the last hour instead. This is devastating for me. I'm legitimately scared to once again deal with the pain with nothing to really hold it back or control it. More so I'm scared of the person I will become with having to deal with it. Opiates, no opiates, I lose.
Unless I find something else. But in years of research I haven't found anything half as effective or safe as kratom. It's beyond shitty for me man.
look into akuamma seeds
I've looked into these and can't find anything on side effects or risks. Do you know of anything along them lines morrow?
No, I just have heard some potentially biased anecdotal reports of it potentiating kratom significantly, and postulation that because of its supposedly antagonistic binding affinity at the delta opioid receptor, it is unlikely to result in the development of any significant amount of tolerance. there are claims that with just a few akuamma seeds, the amount of kratom needed for effective analgesia can be halved. So it may be somewhat effective on its own but I don't think many people have tried that. It is just supposed to be an fever reducer and analgesic somewhat similar to but not as potent as kratom from what I hear. I figure it's worth a shot
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musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: danielx]
#23625951 - 09/08/16 02:16 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Anyone here ever get kratom hiccups before? I just ate my regularish dose of 1.5 and now have some annoying hiccups haven't even eaten food yet...
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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morrowasted
Worldwide Stepper



Registered: 10/30/09
Posts: 31,377
Loc: House of Mirrors
Last seen: 5 days, 2 hours
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: musiclover420]
#23625958 - 09/08/16 02:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
musiclover420 said: Anyone here ever get kratom hiccups before? I just ate my regularish dose of 1.5 and now have some annoying hiccups haven't even eaten food yet...
no but I get nasty burps
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danielx
whatup!


Registered: 10/13/08
Posts: 6,500
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: musiclover420]
#23625971 - 09/08/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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yeah all opiates cause hiccups.
-------------------- Long live kratom
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musiclover420
psychonaut



Registered: 11/06/12
Posts: 19,563
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: PSA: Kratom is about to be placed Scheduled 1 by the DEA [Re: morrowasted]
#23626017 - 09/08/16 02:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
danielx said: yeah all opiates cause hiccups.
Really? That seems strange, I don't know a ton about most opiates though 
Quote:
morrowasted said: no but I get nasty burps
Are you one of the people who eats a ton at once? I get mild burps from my 1-2g doses but nothing bad thankfully.
-------------------- Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free
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