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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: Bjorn_Stormcrow] * 1
    #23572154 - 08/24/16 08:13 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i've never considered the moral basis of any of my relationships. i'm in a great monogamous relationship now because she's who i want. i don't think my way is the only acceptable way to have your love in this world.

i will say though that if you're making the poly thing work, props. it seems like too much drama for me.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


Edited by millzy (08/24/16 08:19 AM)


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OfflineTheMovement
faeirie princess in training
I'm a teapot


Registered: 07/30/12
Posts: 6,781
Loc: Under your bed.
Last seen: 2 years, 6 months
Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: California]
    #23572571 - 08/24/16 11:21 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

California said:
Quote:

TheMovement said:


I definitely feel that most heteronormative monogamous relationships are definitely about power and possession though.  I own you youre MY girlfriend you can't look at other guys or flirt with other guys.  It stems from insecurity methinks. 



Of course you would feel that way.:lol:



I see it every day with couples that have been together forever and even with couples that are just starting to couple.  Opened my eyes to it and realized it's everywhere.

Now, i'm still young so maybe things change the older you get, but this is definitely a pattern.


--------------------
Utwiddle.net

In order to act like a king, one need only treat everyone else like one.

BUMP THIS THREAD EVERYTIME YOU SEE IT

Join the Anarchy Camp!  Down with Oppression!!


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OfflineShadeOfDeepPurple
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Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: TheMovement]
    #23572573 - 08/24/16 11:23 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I don't feel like my parents are like that, but then they use to take psychedelics.:shrug:


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OfflineMurzelpfrumpft
pet donkey in a lucid dream

Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1,855
Last seen: 2 months, 21 days
Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: ShadeOfDeepPurple]
    #23573960 - 08/24/16 07:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Now, don't get this wrong.

I wonder why no one ever mentions that the concept of western marriage is pretty much a feminist dream come true.
Its most prominent feature is protecting women from being fucked over by men. More precisely it's a moral barrier against the natural promiscuity of males and it the problems it causes. Through this it enables women of lots of things they'd be deprived of by the various burdens raising a child alone would bring upon them.

And marriage is what monogamy comes from.

So I say, we mainly tried to have monogamous relationships because women (and in some aspects their kids) wanted and needed them.

If that still makes sense in the way it made sense when marriage cam about, is questionable.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
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Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: Murzelpfrumpft] * 1
    #23574027 - 08/24/16 07:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I agree, marriage is a sham. But some deep part of me knows you need to dedicate to a single person if you are to achieve the true depths of our spiritual potential. It starts with you, and can only then be at it's most beautiful and stunning with another.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: Jokeshopbeard] * 1
    #23574087 - 08/24/16 08:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

as someone who's formally studied a teeny tiny bit of feminism in class, i would say that monogamy, from a feminist point of view, is the exchange of women between men. going back to the roots of marriage, women were essentially currency for the nobility who intermarried in order to secure their power. that's hardly a "dream come true".


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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OfflineMurzelpfrumpft
pet donkey in a lucid dream

Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1,855
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Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: millzy]
    #23575153 - 08/25/16 06:57 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Its not really relevant what the nobility wanted out of marriage or even how it came about, the question is how this became the predominant form of relationship for the little people?
In other words, why do people try to have monogamous relationships?

And that is most definately because we are done with wrecking womens' lives by impregnating and leaving them without any means.

It's just a little exaggerated in modern times, where women can work most jobs, have almost equal rights and can comfortably prevent pregnancy.

I do know that I will always have a "number one", the one I connect most with. But that shouldn't bring a prohibition of any emotional and physical contact to other women with it.
It's just not necessary, it has close to zero purpose nowadays.


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
    #23578829 - 08/26/16 07:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

the reason why marriage became popular was because of how the nobility was using it. that's why the church got involved with marriage in the west during the middle ages: they needed to mitigate the power of intermarrying families who would undermine their goals by having a greater number of vassals once the deal was done. marriages were only truly legitimate if the church sanctioned them.

people obviously marry now for different reasons. but i would still say that the tradition is steeped in an albeit weaker form of patriarchy. the fact that you seem to think it's so men can protect women after impregnating them speaks volumes.

Quote:

Murzelpfrumpft said:
It's just a little exaggerated in modern times, where women can work most jobs, have almost equal rights and can comfortably prevent pregnancy.




lucky them.

Quote:

I do know that I will always have a "number one", the one I connect most with. But that shouldn't bring a prohibition of any emotional and physical contact to other women with it.
It's just not necessary, it has close to zero purpose nowadays.




i don't think anyone here is telling you how to live your life. but i also think that marriage is more about men than women. industries like fashion and entertainment frame marriage in a way where it seems as if it's all about women, but i just don't believe that's truly the case.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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OfflineMurzelpfrumpft
pet donkey in a lucid dream

Registered: 08/09/12
Posts: 1,855
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Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: millzy]
    #23579217 - 08/26/16 10:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

My point of view is heavily influenced from biological science.
That should explain a lot of my opinions.

Why don't you supply some reasoning for your criticism? Does it speak volumes because you don't agree?
What is it that today's average man get out of a marriage, that a woman doesn't?
What does the natural, sexual behaviour of men look like? What are the differences to that of women and why?
Which needs does monogamy support better?

THAT speaks volumes.

Don't get me wrong, it's a good thing. Promiscuity can have really shitty outcomes.

I'd love to hear how men profit so much more from marriage, really.


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: Murzelpfrumpft]
    #23581733 - 08/26/16 08:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i've given a pretty substantial chunk of human history in support of how men benefit from marriage. empires have risen and fallen from women being used as human currency. indeed, marriage is different today. or rather, marriage is framed differently by the advertising industry and all of the sub-economies that benefit from the idea that marriage is an essential component to a good life. we may not marry for power so much these days, but the ideas are still at play. women are viewed as possessions, and that is so apparent that i really shouldn't have to provide any sort of support for that claim because our culture is saturated in that concept.

are things better for women now? in the western world, the answer to that question really depends on location. overall, i would say that even though many women do have it better than they once did, we still have a long way to go, especially in lesser developed countries.

and appealing to science and nature in support of your claims explains nothing: neither tell us how to live. relationships are a matter of ethics. if you wish to make an ethical argument, appeal to ethical standards. from an ethical standpoint, women deserve equality, and by that i mean equal consideration. we don't have that now, and marriage - from a certain perspective - is just one of many examples of how that equality has yet to come about.

it would be a stretch to say that marriage is all bad. but there are ideas at play with marriage that undeniably reflect pernicious attitudes towards women that we have yet to shake.

and to be clear, i'm not saying that polyamory is ethically questionable either; it's just not for me. i'm simply pointing out that your views are ill informed, ill conceived and perhaps a little misogynistic, even though the behavior that you're talking about isn't necessarily bad.


--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


Edited by millzy (08/26/16 08:55 PM)


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Invisibleiiilil
Stranger


Registered: 01/08/16
Posts: 369
Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: micro]
    #23588454 - 08/28/16 09:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

They try because, if successful, it brings an increased depth to one's existence. You can only go so far by yourself. Why do you dedicate yourself to a craft? To learning? To maintaining a skill? Does it not require your utmost attention and dedication to create something grand?

If you find someone heading down the same path as you in life, is it not better to join and support each other? Do you not find comfort in someone considering you the most important person in their lives and visa versa?

I feel, as one gets older, and has 'seen and done it all'... Has watched their so-called 'friends' fade away and understands the outside world is indifferent, they long for someone to be next to them, to understand them, to be there during the good times and bad, and they long to give that back in return.

We are social beings... and we are social to be understood and to understand.
Depth occurs over time and dedication.


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Invisibleiiilil
Stranger


Registered: 01/08/16
Posts: 369
Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: millzy] * 3
    #23588580 - 08/28/16 09:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

millzy said:
i've given a pretty substantial chunk of human history in support of how men benefit from marriage. empires have risen and fallen from women being used as human currency. indeed, marriage is different today. or rather, marriage is framed differently by the advertising industry and all of the sub-economies that benefit from the idea that marriage is an essential component to a good life. we may not marry for power so much these days, but the ideas are still at play. women are viewed as possessions, and that is so apparent that i really shouldn't have to provide any sort of support for that claim because our culture is saturated in that concept.

are things better for women now? in the western world, the answer to that question really depends on location. overall, i would say that even though many women do have it better than they once did, we still have a long way to go, especially in lesser developed countries.

and appealing to science and nature in support of your claims explains nothing: neither tell us how to live. relationships are a matter of ethics. if you wish to make an ethical argument, appeal to ethical standards. from an ethical standpoint, women deserve equality, and by that i mean equal consideration. we don't have that now, and marriage - from a certain perspective - is just one of many examples of how that equality has yet to come about.

it would be a stretch to say that marriage is all bad. but there are ideas at play with marriage that undeniably reflect pernicious attitudes towards women that we have yet to shake.

and to be clear, i'm not saying that polyamory is ethically questionable either; it's just not for me. i'm simply pointing out that your views are ill informed, ill conceived and perhaps a little misogynistic, even though the behavior that you're talking about isn't necessarily bad.




The biggest thing this feminist/misogyny ranting camp needs to realize is that men and women are equal but different. We have different natural dispositions. We natural expect and appreciate different aspects of each other. Most cultures are further along examples of this natural order which is why there are generally consistent customs for men/women across the world.

For some time, certain cultures have gotten off basis in thinking that we can muck with and create their own nature and if modern western society is any testament to this, it is screaming that you can't : it will end in darkness, confusion, idiocy, and tears.

http://www.vanityfair.com/culture/2015/08/tinder-hook-up-culture-end-of-dating
"Tinder sucks,” they say. But they don’t stop swiping.

As the polar ice caps melt and the earth churns through the Sixth Extinction, another unprecedented phenomenon is taking place, in the realm of sex.

Women are the gatekeepers to life. They ground existing life through nurturing and they spring forth new life from the most inner aspects of themselves. Men are supposed to be the protectors of that gate. They are to love and protect the means by which life is brought into and sustained in this world. They are to hold it to a higher standard so as to reign life in at higher standards. To do otherwise, is to resign to a downward spiral.

Lowering the standards to entry past these gates lowers the bar that men seek to achieve. Thus resulting in lower forms of life. Opening the gates to anyone and with frequency causes men to lose respect for the unique and grand power that women have over life and its sustainment. It causes lessor men to become more convicted in their ways by having been granted the ability to obtain the 'ultimate prize'.

"“It’s instant gratification,” says Jason, 26, a Brooklyn photographer, “and a validation of your own attractiveness by just, like, swiping your thumb on an app. You see some pretty girl and you swipe and it’s, like, oh, she thinks you’re attractive too, so it’s really addicting, and you just find yourself mindlessly doing it.” “Sex has become so easy,” says John, 26, a marketing executive in New York. “I can go on my phone right now and no doubt I can find someone I can have sex with this evening, probably before midnight.”

It is the very abundance of options provided by online dating which may be making men less inclined to treat any particular woman as a “priority,


There are playful terms for the power that the gate-keepers and justifiers of life have :
Pussy power
"The vaginal control of a woman over a man AFTER he has hit it and not before. Because EVERY man is stupid before he starts fucking. Thus, any woman who can keep him stupid after he fucks possesses Power of the Pussy."

There are even books written on it :
https://www.amazon.com/Power-Pussy-Respect-Commitment-Relationship-ebook/dp/B0085YBTEO#nav-subnav

Men are dispositioned to have to toil and fight to seek out and define themselves as being worthy of gracing the gate of a gate-keeper (woman). A woman is predisposed to being more chaste and reserved in setting a high standard for what type of man she allows to pass her gates. It is of her disposition to restrict, nurture, respect, and provide a home for such a man after she has given him license to cross her gate so as to sustain the (circle-of-life) which they are both then resigned to.

Both parties thus pick more wisely. In the development stage, one ideally focuses on developing the qualities and traits that allow them to be better stewards in their adulthood. Instead, in some cultures, it is a custom to lose oneself during these crucial years thus why there ends up being so many lost adults who don't understand the purpose and intent of marriage or how to even be stewards of the earth and care for it and their environment.

Now, you can say otherwise and say it is perfectly natural to go sleeping around and clowning around and doing as one pleases with their body for the sake of modernity. Nature and the natural order of the universe doesn't really care for what fantasies we dream up as justification for our behavior. So, the consequential nature of such paths will manifest as they manifest. If you suggest it is all gravy and good, then I guess society should be gravy and good and I'm really just blabbing nonsense.

However, take a look around you, this is quite clearly not what is occurring and there will be a significant backlash for undermining the role of men in society and convincing women to abandon their gates and fight against men.. Maybe we go through a darkened period and learn from it. Maybe we wake up before that happens. Maybe were doing just fine.

I guess time will tell as it after-all (is what it is) regardless of what anyone including myself says


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: iiilil]
    #23589520 - 08/29/16 10:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Really great post iiilil, I really enjoyed reading it. Thank you.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisiblepachooDiscord
Witchakookoo
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Registered: 09/10/10
Posts: 7,135
Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: iiilil]
    #23590233 - 08/29/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yes, very lovely post iiilil. I agree.

Although all I could think about was Ghostbusters

I am the gatekeeper!

I am the key master!

:lol:


--------------------


:heartpump::heartpump: :heartpump::heartpump:


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OfflineVisionary Tools
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Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: pachoo]
    #23590721 - 08/29/16 04:42 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I was thinking about marriage the other day.

Doesn't really keep anyone from infidelity does it?


--------------------


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Invisiblemillzy
Male

Registered: 05/12/10
Posts: 12,409
Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: Visionary Tools]
    #23591431 - 08/29/16 07:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

i love how i'm categorized as some feminazi because i take a feminist point of view in one conversation. :lol:

but i do agree that 'equality' means 'equal consideration'.  per my previous post...

Quote:

from an ethical standpoint, women deserve equality, and by that i mean equal consideration. we don't have that now, and marriage - from a certain perspective - is just one of many examples of how that equality has yet to come about.




--------------------
I'm up to my ears in unwritten words. - J.D. Salinger


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Onlinekoods
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Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: Acaterpillar]
    #23591574 - 08/29/16 08:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Acaterpillar said:
With that mentality you're really putting yourself at risk to catch something serious :facepalm:

You likely have herpes and simply don't show symptoms...




I wouldn't fuck micro with someone else's dick


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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OfflineChakra Shock
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Re: Why do people try to have monogamous relationships [Re: iiilil] * 1
    #23593473 - 08/30/16 12:17 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

After a brief moment of consideration after reading your post, I posit this counterpoint:


It's all about how you're doing the things. If you sleep around and think "wow, these people are so beneath me", then yes, you're going to be an asshole and probably be a terrible parent. But if you have authentic gratitude and respect for your ephemeral partners in the process of your sexual exploration, then each experience could be a continuation, in progress, of the general spiritual evolution of our species. It can't be so black and white like, "this is the one right way, everyone just choose a mate so we can evolve" versus promiscuity. Both can exist simultaneously, so long as the choices an individual makes in the present moment are coupled with a spiritual effort.

The main problem I see with things like tinder and online dating is that people have not cultivated the proper respect and gratitude for their sexual experiences, and are doing it mainly to satiate their own egoic demands funneled into their heads from media outlets projecting 'the way you ought to be'. As if happiness relies upon continuously incurring more and more desire...

A major lack of awareness and compassion seems to be at the core of why things like promiscuity, infrastructure, mass-transit, energy consumption, government and many more areas of society are currently facing obstacles.


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