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akira_akuma
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
#23599410 - 08/31/16 10:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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um, did they tell you that, that they had 'more than enough Mexicans'?
because otherwise, what you just said, is just anecdotal "first-hand knowledge"; which is a misnomer, ya know. just saying.
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koods
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
#23599418 - 08/31/16 10:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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What I know is that your personal anecdote is not relevant to policy discussion. You don't make policy based on what happened to one guy, you base it on statistics, past experience and expected results. When it comes to migrant labor in agriculture, we have plenty of historical perspective to inform wise decisions. We also know what happens if you simply remove the undocumented labor force, and it is disasterous.
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: koods]
#23599435 - 08/31/16 10:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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i've always said, it'll have it's consequences. people will pay Americans less money than most Americans will be willing to work for, and the industries therein will suffer, and thus agriculture might suffer. no one wants to listen, though. they'd rather pretend this couldn't happen.
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Great Scott
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: akira_akuma]
#23599544 - 08/31/16 11:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: um, did they tell you that, that they had 'more than enough Mexicans'?
because otherwise, what you just said, is just anecdotal "first-hand knowledge"; which is a misnomer, ya know. just saying.
Yes, they said specifically that. If I remember correctly one of the exact quotes went something like "well, I've already got Jose and he's bringing people".
::Cue the 2 van loads of Jose's extended family and friends::
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
#23599554 - 08/31/16 11:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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and these Mexicans are being paid how? correct me if i'm wrong, but i was under assumption that illegal immigrants get paid cash, right?
so....why isn't this employer of yours doing the goddamn right and American thing?
ask yourself that.
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Crumist
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: akira_akuma]
#23599573 - 08/31/16 11:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I worked on a medium sized produce farm alongside ~40 sets of hands on any particular day. AFAIK everyone was cut a check. The farm paid their share of payroll taxes and the workers paid using a tax-ID number.
It was explained to me (it was a family farm and I usually worked alongside the co-owners) that farms that try and pay cash and dodge the taxes are the ones that get prioritized for inspections of the workforce.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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Great Scott
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: akira_akuma]
#23599575 - 08/31/16 11:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Cash is correct in this particular case, being that it's short term harvest work. Which is how I would have gotten paid, as well, regardless of being Mexican or not. It depends on the particularly employer and the type of work. I've also gotten paychecks from a W-2 payroll, which is automatically taxed. Mexicans have a tougher time with that since it tends to require some type of forgery if they're illegal/undocumented.
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
#23599596 - 08/31/16 11:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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i see, thanks for the info. interesting.
i still find it odd that they are able to commit forgery, and have money come to them through a W-2 payroll, i don't understand how they can get away with that. shouldn't whatever title being forge have to match with some other documentation? hey i've never been an immigrant, or anything, so i seriously have no idea.
Quote:
Crumist said: I worked on a medium sized produce farm alongside ~40 sets of hands on any particular day. AFAIK everyone was cut a check. The farm paid their share of payroll taxes and the workers paid using a tax-ID number.
It was explained to me (it was a family farm and I usually worked alongside the co-owners) that farms that try and pay cash and dodge the taxes are the ones that get prioritized for inspections of the workforce.
i see.
so this tax ID-number...um, can just about anyone get that shit? i have a feeling this was brought up earlier, between you and Pris, correct? i'll go and check.
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Great Scott
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: akira_akuma]
#23599605 - 08/31/16 11:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Wherever there's a 1st generation Mexican immigrant having an easy time cashing checks, there you will also find opportunistic Americans pulling strings to make it so.
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
#23599628 - 09/01/16 12:07 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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as far as i can see if someone has an ITIN they should be documented and have legal status, no? and if that's not the case, then Prisoner made a great point earlier about identify theft.
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Great Scott
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: akira_akuma]
#23599629 - 09/01/16 12:10 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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You need a work visa. If you don't have that or if you do and it's expired, then it's not technically legal.
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
#23599633 - 09/01/16 12:14 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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yes, that's right, unless you've become a naturalized US citizen.
if they have an ITIN they should be documented with a work visa, and if that visa expired, the ITIN should be invalidated, no?
and regarding stolen SIN's: that kind of fraud, can that be prevented by a wall?
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Great Scott
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: akira_akuma]
#23599642 - 09/01/16 12:20 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
akira_akuma said: and regarding stolen SIN's: that kind of fraud, can that be prevented by a wall?
How 'bout this... can it be prevented by looking the other way? Besides building a wall (which I actually have mixed feelings about, truth be told), Trump's immigration policy includes stricter in-land enforcement. The Democrats are just the opposite, they want a free-for-all.
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akira_akuma
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
#23599657 - 09/01/16 12:35 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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the wall is gonna come with it's own set of problems, the only thing i have with the wall is...is it totally completely worth it, and is there a return of investment. the wall, one the face of it, isn't even a real problem at all. Mexican authorities don't even see an affront to it. but it's like, how fucking worth it will it be with the expenditure and then some, the actual problems building the fucking thing. i can't wait to see how it goes.
and how does stricter in-land enforcement work?
like this? https://www.thestar.com/news/immigration/2013/06/28/canadas_immigration_system_lacks_heart_critics_say.html
does it look sorta like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_Border_Services_Agency ?
note, Canada doesn't have a wall.
note: yeah, at this level here, i'm just rubbing it in. sorry.
but i really am concerned with the whole ordeal, seriously. as far as i want the US to come to grips and shit. the US has run under some strangely receding paradigm lately. i wonder how much can hold up to scrutiny. (and i realize the migrant crisis flipped a bit of the immigration policy on it's head)
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Crumist
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: akira_akuma] 1
#23599661 - 09/01/16 12:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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An ITIN can be gotten by anyone without a SS#. An illegal immigrant can use his Mexican issued ID for the ITIN. It is against federal law for the IRS to share certain info with other departments and commonly understood that paying taxes won't assist the DHS in deporting someone. Some of those I worked with had green cards or work visas, but it wasmy understanding that several of my co-workers were undocumented.(On a tangential note: did you know several states offer tax stamps for street drugs? I doubt many people have applied for these stamps, but same deal: some kind of anonymity is provided and the tax office promises not to share info with the DEA/police).
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=7718604
I can see how these conflicts between our governmental branches and lack of co-operation to expediently deport these immigrants (especially if you consider them a grave existential threat) is frustrating
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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koods
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
#23599672 - 09/01/16 12:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
PeyoteZen said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: and regarding stolen SIN's: that kind of fraud, can that be prevented by a wall?
How 'bout this... can it be prevented by looking the other way? Besides building a wall (which I actually have mixed feelings about, truth be told), Trump's immigration policy includes stricter in-land enforcement. The Democrats are just the opposite, they want a free-for-all.
What a load of bullshit. More people have been deported under Obama than any other president. More than 50% of all federal prosecutions are for Illegal Entry, nearly four times more than all federal drug prosecutions.
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Great Scott
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: koods]
#23599679 - 09/01/16 12:59 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
koods said:
Quote:
PeyoteZen said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: and regarding stolen SIN's: that kind of fraud, can that be prevented by a wall?
How 'bout this... can it be prevented by looking the other way? Besides building a wall (which I actually have mixed feelings about, truth be told), Trump's immigration policy includes stricter in-land enforcement. The Democrats are just the opposite, they want a free-for-all.
What a load of bullshit. More people have been deported under Obama than any other president. More than 50% of all federal prosecutions are for Illegal Entry, nearly four times more than all federal drug prosecutions.
So you admit that it's a problem, then? Maybe instead of prosecuting all the illegal entry (and tying up resources that way), we should make better efforts to nip it in the bud and actually prevent illegal entry.
And Akira - Keep in mind that Mexicans in search of work aren't the only people crossing our southern border. It's also an open vector for Jihad foot soldiers.
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koods
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
#23599686 - 09/01/16 01:03 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yeah. But a wall won't work. It's just a stupid idea.
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Great Scott
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: koods]
#23599692 - 09/01/16 01:12 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Why not? Because rope ladders, tunnels, and ocean rafting up to the coastlines? Because it's not cost-effective? Or do you just think walls are ineffective physical deterrents in general? And I also want to know what you think the Ancient Chinese should have done differently in regards to invading Mongols.
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Great Scott
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: koods]
#23599699 - 09/01/16 01:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Keep in mind there's more to immigration policy than keeping Mexicans from working American jobs. A lot more. There's assimilation problems. There's cartel and gang problems. There's welfare leach problems and people coming here to milk the system for freebies (ie: Chinese immigrants coming exclusively to have babies on the house, courtesy of Uncle Sam). There's the whole anchor baby thing, which is a sensitive issue that just complicates what should be a simple legal recourse. AND there's ISIS terror cells setting up shop once they get through. Hillary Clinton wants to keep importing more and more. And not for humanitarian reasons...that's just doublespeak to cover for what the real agenda is. If you think Hillary and those like her are just doing this out of the goodness of their hearts, you're deluding yourself. She hasn't got an honest or kind bone in her body. It's about votes, it's about power, and it's about reconfiguring our country fundamentally in accordance with globalist ideals and their all encompassing agenda for global governance and neoplantationism. There, I said it.
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