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OfflineCrumist
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23592533 - 08/30/16 06:52 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I can only imagine hippocampus was being facetious.

EDIT:
Quote:

Crystal G said:Similar to how Mexico has a similar "open border" agreement with America, they allow Americans to travel freely without any visa documentation for purposes of tourism, even though a lot of Americans going to their country are criminals and fugitives who are escaping the law.




Wow, I can't believe I've missed the irony of Trumps "they're bringing rapists" statement until just now.

Does anyone have an argument in favor of the wall? Is the cornerstone of Trumps campaign, someone must believe it's a good idea


--------------------
'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704


Edited by Crumist (08/30/16 07:03 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23592554 - 08/30/16 07:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

ModestMouse said:
China's wall kept out the pillagers and rapists.
Trumps wall just wants to keep out the people trying to cut your grass at a bargain rate




oh... those people






Why did you post a picture of black people, it's clear that they are Americans and not illegal immigrants :facepalm:






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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Seriously_trippin]
    #23592557 - 08/30/16 07:13 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Seriously_trippin said:
Quote:

Shroomopotamus said:
Quote:

ModestMouse said:
China's wall kept out the pillagers and rapists.




That's like, exactly the same reason Tump is for building a wall...



The Great Wall of China was made as a defense specifically against Mongolians military power. Mexico isn't exactly trying to invade the u.s.





if I sent 1 million people into a foreign country do you think they'd see that as an
invasion? now imagine of I sent 20 million people into that country? would it look
more like an invasion.

Vincente Fox was encouraging mexicans to cross the border, it is in fact an invasion


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23592562 - 08/30/16 07:15 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:

Yeah, the problem is, a lot of illegal aliens usually don't work fast food or at any corporation that pays with a check. Usually companies that pay with a check are very strict about who they hire, you have to have a valid social security number to be employed by them.

Instead, they work jobs like picking fruit for farmers and construction work and things like that, who pay below minimum wage in cash. So you would have to have a team of people surveillancing the employees, and coming to verify all their documentation at these types of places.





would you stop talking out of your ass, you know nothing about illegals and work


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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Eminence]
    #23592565 - 08/30/16 07:16 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Eminence said:
It's only predominantly white nations where people push for diversity and open borders.



Jewish plot to interbreed the white-race resulting in a more controllable populace.:gombypls:


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crumist]
    #23592571 - 08/30/16 07:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:

Wow, I can't believe I've missed the irony of Trumps "they're bringing rapists" statement until just now.






is he wrong?


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OfflineCrumist
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23592588 - 08/30/16 07:37 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Has a rapist ever crossed the US-Mexico border? Yes
Which direction were they probably (calculated by comparing rapists crossing Mexico->US and vice versa) headed? South.
Was Trumps statement a gross mischaracterization? Yes, intuitively, undocumented immigrants will behave much better in the states than native citizens, for fear of being deported


--------------------
'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crumist]
    #23592600 - 08/30/16 07:44 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
Has a rapist ever crossed the US-Mexico border? Yes
Which direction were they probably (calculated by comparing rapists crossing Mexico->US and vice versa) headed? South.





maybe you'd like to show us where you managed to get get your figures because the
estimates show between 11 million and 27 million illegals are in the US and if you
watch the old westerns, sure, mexico was the place to be if you were wanted by the
law but in the last hundred years that's certainly changed


now can you actually show us that trump was wrong with his claim

Quote:

Yes, intuitively, undocumented immigrants will behave much better in the states than native citizens, for fear of being deported




well isnt that a heaping pile of horse shit, if they crossed the border once
illegally, what stops them from doing it again, do you think that when they're
deported they somehow, magically lose the ability to cross the border illegally
again, that it's somehow a one shot trip?

if they were really worried then why would so many of them get DUIs, rape charges,
murder charges.... oh, that's because Obama doesnt want to punish the people with
brown skin

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/mar/14/124-illegal-immigrants-released-by-dhs-later-charg/


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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #23592624 - 08/30/16 07:56 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump





Hitler promised economic progress. He realized that progress by getting everybody to work making guns, bombs, tanks, fighter planes, creating jobs a plenty but it would only pay off if they.. went to war.

Trump does it differently. He commissions an ENORMOUS architectural project. A wall so big that it can be seen from space. From shining sea to shining sea. Grand as the Pyramids, grand as China's wall, and it has TRUMP written all over it, just like his other projects.

This wall will create many many jobs. Economic prosperity, just like with Hitler. Imagine such a wall. It would take at least eight years to build it. It would require many building contractors and the like, but he knows some, right?

THAT WALL WILL NEVER BE PROFITABLE. WALLS NEVER ARE.

What it will do is give a huge spurt of economic prosperity all the way through his presidency and maybe beyond, creating this absolutely nonsensical waste of resources. Enough time for him and his friends to stuff their pockets as THEY let THE POOR build it from YOUR MONEY.

Is the con job clear now that I put it like this?


--------------------
Omnicyclion.org
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Asante]
    #23592708 - 08/30/16 08:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump





Hitler promised economic progress. He realized that progress by getting everybody to work making guns, bombs, tanks, fighter planes, creating jobs a plenty but it would only pay off if they.. went to war.

Trump does it differently. He commissions an ENORMOUS architectural project. A wall so big that it can be seen from space. From shining sea to shining sea. Grand as the Pyramids, grand as China's wall, and it has TRUMP written all over it, just like his other projects.

This wall will create many many jobs. Economic prosperity, just like with Hitler. Imagine such a wall. It would take at least eight years to build it. It would require many building contractors and the like, but he knows some, right?

THAT WALL WILL NEVER BE PROFITABLE. WALLS NEVER ARE.

What it will do is give a huge spurt of economic prosperity all the way through his presidency and maybe beyond, creating this absolutely nonsensical waste of resources. Enough time for him and his friends to stuff their pockets as THEY let THE POOR build it from YOUR MONEY.

Is the con job clear now that I put it like this?




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_Hitlerum


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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #23592712 - 08/30/16 08:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Read the first word, full stop, base entire reply on it.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crumist]
    #23592738 - 08/30/16 08:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
I don't see it as inherently racist, but rather as ineffective and a waste of money. We already have a border fence (like the great wall, divided into thousands of sections, as the terrain demands) and our border security allocates funds as it sees fit. Were Trump some national security expert or have any expertise in this area, I'd give the thought much more credence. But I don't see the people actually working the border calling for some concrete wall. I'd imagine most desire even more mundane things like more agents, larger/more crossing stations, more aircraft.

As with all things, there is a law of diminishing returns. In my opinion we already spend too much on securing the southern border. The solution to illegal crossings from the south is to reform immigration and legalize them. Yet every time congress appears it is going to work on precisely this issue, somebody (whom I can only assume is disinterested in seeing immigration reformed) cries "But the border isn't secure, First we must secure the border! What about those already here!? No Amnesty for Illegals!!"

When will the southern border be considered "secure" enough to move on and address the other immigration issues? For some I think the answer to this question is "never," as they don't intend to allow debate to continue. We can never prevent 100% of illegal border crossings as a practical matter. Some US-Canada crossings are an empty guard-post inside which you are supposed to call and then wait for a border agent. To turn the perimeter of our country into some sort of prison wall is near impossible, unless perhaps all citizens were the imprisoned laborers supporting some dystopian state. A state whose singular function is to patrol the border walls.

Addressing the race issue; its not as if there is some 'brown tide' of Hispanic people overwhelming our nation. Illegal immigration ebbs and flows and is currently in a trough in my understanding. The average American isn't going to see some huge improvement after all of the cheap labor is gone. Grossly overestimating that illegal immigrants make up 8% of our workforce and their deportation leads to an 8% raise across the board, don't forget prices also will rise, and now you are picking strawberries in the sun all day (or maybe in your version, its all the bums who magically start working the fields)




"The solution to illegal crossings from the south is to reform immigration and legalize them"

So your solution is to reward any person in the world to cross the Southern border and make them a US citizen?  :huxleyfacepalm:

So what is the point of even having a country called the United States?  What is the point of US citizenship?  It all becomes meaningless under your approach.


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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Asante]
    #23592752 - 08/30/16 08:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump





Hitler promised economic progress. He realized that progress by getting everybody to work making guns, bombs, tanks, fighter planes, creating jobs a plenty but it would only pay off if they.. went to war.

Trump does it differently. He commissions an ENORMOUS architectural project. A wall so big that it can be seen from space. From shining sea to shining sea. Grand as the Pyramids, grand as China's wall, and it has TRUMP written all over it, just like his other projects.

This wall will create many many jobs. Economic prosperity, just like with Hitler. Imagine such a wall. It would take at least eight years to build it. It would require many building contractors and the like, but he knows some, right?

THAT WALL WILL NEVER BE PROFITABLE. WALLS NEVER ARE.

What it will do is give a huge spurt of economic prosperity all the way through his presidency and maybe beyond, creating this absolutely nonsensical waste of resources. Enough time for him and his friends to stuff their pockets as THEY let THE POOR build it from YOUR MONEY.

Is the con job clear now that I put it like this?




If the wall construction is going to cost $12 billion and the illegals living in the US cost over $130 billion per year, wouldn't the wall offer an excellent return on investment for US taxpayers?  Yes it would.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: qman]
    #23592763 - 08/30/16 08:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The numbers are doctored.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crumist]
    #23592775 - 08/30/16 08:53 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
Has a rapist ever crossed the US-Mexico border? Yes
Which direction were they probably (calculated by comparing rapists crossing Mexico->US and vice versa) headed? South.
Was Trumps statement a gross mischaracterization? Yes, intuitively, undocumented immigrants will behave much better in the states than native citizens, for fear of being deported




"behave much better in the states than native citizens"

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/07/illegal-immigrants-accounted-for-nearly-37-percent-of-federal-sentences-in-fy-2014/


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Asante]
    #23592818 - 08/30/16 09:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Read the first word, full stop, base entire reply on it.





did you not make a comparison of trump to hitler? if it wasnt then why would you even mention hitler


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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Asante]
    #23592823 - 08/30/16 09:05 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
The numbers are doctored.





prove it. open the ledgers and show us the real numbers


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OfflineCrumist
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23592839 - 08/30/16 09:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Statistics relevant to this subject are going to be very hairy, so I'm not going to bother. On my side, the rape rate in the US is presently and historically higher than in Mexico (currently 2x). Also, until recently, the group of people fleeing S illegally was a group extremely selective of violent criminals, as there was no extradition treaty and Mexico's law enforcement lagged behind the US. Given our cooperation, and top notch police across the both nations, a Mexican fugitive would be smart to flee further south.

On your side, there are many people (who come through, but increasingly not from Mexico) who have crossed illegally into the US, say 12mil (where the fuck are you getting 27? You can't just double a reasonable estimate and add some). By comparison, 1mil Americans live in Mexico.

Fun fact I just learned, the largest US group of expats lives in Mexico and is also Mexico's largest group of foreigners. The inverse is also true, we wuv one another :cuddles:


--------------------
'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704


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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crumist] * 1
    #23592871 - 08/30/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
Statistics relevant to this subject are going to be very hairy, so I'm not going to bother. On my side, the rape rate in the US is presently and historically higher than in Mexico (currently 2x).





I thought statistics on this subject were going to be 'very hairy' and here you
are making a statistical claim with no actual foundation, citations or even so
much as a reach around

maybe the reason the rape statistics in mexico are so low because all the rapists
came to the US or maybe it's because rape is far less of a crime in mexico given
that the age of consent is 12 years old and human trafficking is common place in
that backward, corrupt country where Catholicism is the law of the land and girls
that were raped are forced to marry the rapist so once married no rape took place
the fact that mexico has to make a law forbidding it shows that it's a common


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OfflineCrumist
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Asante]
    #23592929 - 08/30/16 09:39 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Fuck, why do my posts turn into Great Walls :wow:

Quote:

qman said:
Quote:

Crumist said:
Has a rapist ever crossed the US-Mexico border? Yes
Which direction were they probably (calculated by comparing rapists crossing Mexico->US and
vice versa) headed? South.
Was Trumps statement a gross mischaracterization? Yes, intuitively, undocumented
immigrants will behave much better in the states than native citizens, for fear of being deported




"behave much better in the states than native citizens"

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/07/illegal-immigrants-accounted-for-nearly-37-percent-of-federal-sentences-in-fy-2014/




The flagrant issue there is that crime is almost always a state matter... Except when it involves
a foreign national  :facepalm3:  If any group (exception being men) was committing close to that percentage of crimes, I'd grab my gun and help you run that group out, I swear.

Quote:

Asante said:
The numbers are doctored.




The $130 billion figure AFAIK comes from here http://www.fairus.org/publications/the-fiscal-burden-of-illegal-immigration-on-united-states-taxpayers
Im still making my way through the PDF, but I have some big reservations
about their methodology and leaning towards your opinion so far. Here are
some summarized criticisms (which I haven't read, only searched for to prevent biasing myself)
of the paper https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/statistical-hot-air-fair%e2%80%99s-usa-report-lacks-credibility

Quote:

So your solution is to reward any person in the world to cross the Southern border
and make them a US citizen?  :huxleyfacepalm:

So what is the point of even having a country called the United States?  What is the point
of US citizenship?  It all becomes meaningless under your approach.




I never called for making them citizens.

Rather than focusing on morality (btw, what happens to morality when refugees, especially
children, fleeing violence and religious persecution are seeking entry?) How about economics?
Clearly there is a need for all those workers for them to risk crossing the border (which is, objectively,
increasingly dangerous and difficult) here in the US. Lets document the fuckers and permit
some actual research and transparency on the subject. Plus moar taxe$! We need an expanded guest
worker program, denying entry to a small lottery and uber-educated foreigners is clearly not cutting it.

Or do you not care about the legality at all? Even Trump argues for allowing "them" to come here legally.

Quote:


maybe the reason the rape statistics in mexico are so low because all the rapists
came to the US or maybe it's because rape is far less of a crime in mexico given
that the age of consent is 12 years old and human trafficking is common place in
that backward, corrupt country where Catholicism is the law of the land and girls
that were raped are forced to marry the rapist so once married no rape took place
the fact that mexico has to make a law forbidding it shows that it's a common




These are similar to the reservations I first imagined you would have, and hard figures
are difficult to come by regarding # of rapists in the US, but especially Mexico,
or the number of illegal US->Mexico crossings. Proving, over history, whether more
rapists went US->Mexico or Mexico->US is impossible with current data. I listed some
general points and its clear you will hold on to your preconceived notion and I onto mine
(also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#Rape_statistics_by_country)


--------------------
'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704


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