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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23608514 - 09/03/16 04:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

IN-LAND checkpoints. Don't deflect. And don't ignore the 2nd half of my post and the sentiment I laid out there.


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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: koods]
    #23608517 - 09/03/16 04:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

There are probably legal distinctions between passive non invasive technology and active types. The have sensors that can pick up radiation being emitted from inside a vehicle. That is passive. Similar to a dog walking around a car and sniffing. that doesn't require justification, but they would need cause to open the door and let the dog sniff. X-rays aren't passive. They are shooting radiation into a vehicle and then seeing what comes out. It's analogous to a real search.  They are doing more than simply detecting something that was already there, like a smell or a radioactive device.


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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23608543 - 09/03/16 04:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
So then, I'm confused, how were they able to use these at the Superbowl, like they've admitted to doing?

Is it because it's a private event and not public property?

And if that's the case, then how come it was DHS and border patrol that was doing the scanning, and not some private security company? Because similar X-ray technology is sold to private security companies as well.




What did they admit to doing? Scanning people without requiring consent or without their knowledge? There's probably legal justification for requiring consent to be searched before entering an event like that. Now, if they were doing it without offering the opportunity to decline to the search and not be allowed entry, that would be a different story.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
    #23608556 - 09/03/16 04:17 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
There are probably legal distinctions between passive non invasive technology and active types. The have sensors that can pick up radiation being emitted from inside a vehicle. That is passive. Similar to a dog walking around a car and sniffing. that doesn't require justification, but they would need cause to open the door and let the dog sniff. X-rays aren't passive. They are shooting radiation into a vehicle and then seeing what comes out. It's analogous to a real search.  They are doing more than simply detecting something that was already there, like a smell or a radioactive device.




Well, they are saying that all their X-ray technology, even the ones they use at the borders, is by definition "non-invasive" or "non-intrusive." They said all their X-rays are non-intrusive, and are able to look through cars, but are not able to look through people.

They also state in this video it's the same machine that they use at ports of entry. Starting at the video from 1:15 they actually describe and demonstrate the type of X-ray they used at the Super Bowl, and you can see how extensive it can scan inside the vehicle:





Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
IN-LAND checkpoints. Don't deflect. And don't ignore the 2nd half of my post and the sentiment I laid out there.




I didn't ignore it. What do you want me to say, aside from agreeing with you? What else more is there to say?


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: koods]
    #23608563 - 09/03/16 04:19 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
So then, I'm confused, how were they able to use these at the Superbowl, like they've admitted to doing?

Is it because it's a private event and not public property?

And if that's the case, then how come it was DHS and border patrol that was doing the scanning, and not some private security company? Because similar X-ray technology is sold to private security companies as well.




What did they admit to doing? Scanning people without requiring consent or without their knowledge? There's probably legal justification for requiring consent to be searched before entering an event like that. Now, if they were doing it without offering the opportunity to decline to the search and not be allowed entry, that would be a different story.




Mmmm yeah, I guess that makes sense. Usually some nightclubs and raves will search you before entry, and that is considered lawful.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
    #23608572 - 09/03/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

There are B.P. Agents who get it, and there are B.P. Agents who don't.

One who gets it (@0:42)


And just type "inland border patrol checkpoint refusal" on youtube to see hundreds of examples of Agents who don't get it.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: koods]
    #23608583 - 09/03/16 04:24 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
There are probably legal distinctions between passive non invasive technology and active types. The have sensors that can pick up radiation being emitted from inside a vehicle. That is passive. Similar to a dog walking around a car and sniffing. that doesn't require justification, but they would need cause to open the door and let the dog sniff. X-rays aren't passive. They are shooting radiation into a vehicle and then seeing what comes out. It's analogous to a real search.  They are doing more than simply detecting something that was already there, like a smell or a radioactive device.




As long as the dog doesn't scratch my car or even physically touch it in any way whatsoever (it happens a lot). Then we got problems.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott] * 1
    #23608585 - 09/03/16 04:24 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

This is actually the fastest way to get through border patrol :lol:




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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23608621 - 09/03/16 04:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
IN-LAND checkpoints. Don't deflect. And don't ignore the 2nd half of my post and the sentiment I laid out there.




I didn't ignore it. What do you want me to say, aside from agreeing with you? What else more is there to say?




It's important because it leads us to the next logical conclusion of my previous argument. Which is, Federal Agencies are not currently allocating their manpower and resources properly and efficiently. You say the secure border wall won't work because it requires too many Agents and too many resources. And I'm saying we already have ample Agents and resources, they just need to be reallocated to perform their proper function, which is securing the border; which they are currently doing a piss poor job of. Therefore, I would prefer a President who intends to move in the right direction, utilizing our Federal Agencies more efficiently and effectively, and not a President who intends to keep doing the same stupid shit we've been doing, over and over again, and calling it good.


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Edited by Great Scott (09/03/16 04:40 PM)


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23608634 - 09/03/16 04:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
This is actually the fastest way to get through border patrol :lol:







That's one of my favorites. I also like the one where he says he's a citizen of Israel. The B.P. Agent is like "You're Israeli?". And the pastor says "No, I'm a child of God, Israel is my spiritual home, my home is not of this world"...or something to that affect. It left the Agent totally stumped and not sure where to proceed on from there. Unfortunately this pastor did get dragged out of his car on one of these stops and they battered him pretty good. There's footage of the subsequent court proceedings if you care to watch it. The Agent got reamed by the guy's attorney and reduced to a stuttering mess on the stand.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
    #23608660 - 09/03/16 04:50 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
It's important because it leads us to the next logical conclusion of my previous argument. Which is, Federal Agencies are not currently allocating their manpower and resources properly and efficiently. You say the secure border wall won't work because it requires too many Agents and too many resources. And I'm saying we already have ample Agents and resources, they just need to be reallocated to perform their proper function, which is securing the border; which they are currently doing a piss poor job of. Therefore, I would prefer a President who intends to move in the right direction, utilizing our Federal Agencies more efficiently and effectively, and not a President who intends to keep doing the same stupid shit we've been doing, over and over again, and calling it good.





Do you really honestly believe Trump will change laws or anything at all? I don't think he's going to change a damn thing while he's in office.

When he went to Mexico, he gave a speech about how great and hard-working Mexicans are, and didn't even mention anything about changing NAFTA agreements to pay for the wall. He says he will do that "later" meaning, he will postpone it after he gets elected and then it will never come up again at all.

The guy's a con man and has screwed over thousands of Americans. He's hired illegal immigrants himself to build his casinos and towers, what makes you think he's going to change anything.


Also I searched for the Israeli video, but I couldn't find it. I kept getting Gaza border patrol checkpoints, what am I supposed to search for?


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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23608761 - 09/03/16 05:25 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I just provided all the evidence and argumentation to prove my point. So does it come to you not agreeing with Trump's policy proposal, or does it come down to you not believing he will actually follow through? Because earlier in this thread it sounded like you didn't think this policy would work, hypothetically. And now you're arguing not about whether it would work, but about whether Trump will actually do it or not.

I believe he means what he says. Why wouldn't he? What incentive does he have to renege on his Border Security and Immigration Policy? If anything, he has exactly the opposite, which is to say he has plenty of incentive to do exactly what he's proposed to do. Do you believe Hillary Clinton is any better in regards to honesty? She's a proven liar and a politicrook who has disgraced her positions in public office many times over; whereas Donald Trump just has a minor track record in the private sector of perceived unsavory business practices.

Take Trump University for instance, it's a buyer beware situation. Just because the word "University" is in the name, doesn't mean it's a fully-accredited University, nor does that alone create any sort of legal obligation to be one. And anyone who enrolled in Trump U with that presumption is a sucker. Trump University provided the educational curriculum that they promised to provide. If you were to read the contract, I guarantee you no such promise of full University accreditation was promised. If I start a lemonade stand business and give it a cute name like "Lemon Squeeze Palace"; I'm under no legal obligation to serve lemonade out of an actual palace. Comprende?


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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
    #23608825 - 09/03/16 05:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

And anyone who enrolled in Trump U with that presumption is a sucker. Trump University provided the educational curriculum that they promised to provide.


As I understand it, the current case is about the bolded. Trump U promised certain things (the teachers would have real estate experience, and were handselected by Trump, etc) that were false. The case is whether or not this was fair game "sales talk" or deceptive "false advertising." I feel the Trump case is a bad choice to dog him with though. Supposedly Trump and his businesses have a nasty habit of contracting work and then failing to pay up after its done. I don't see how someone who uses the courts to intimidate and terrorize Americans who actually work for a living has become so popular. Trump is the king of frivolous lawsuits, but people see him as the solution rather than the problem. His poor ethical track record in business is by no means minor IMO.

I see Trump as far far less trustworthy than Hillary Clinton, and politifact (taking into account their bias) agrees with me.

And can you link to the post where you 
Quote:

just provided all the evidence and argumentation to prove my point.


I must have missed it.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
    #23608828 - 09/03/16 05:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Because earlier in this thread it sounded like you didn't think this policy would work, hypothetically. And now you're arguing not about whether it would work, but about whether Trump will actually do it or not.




From the beginning of Trump's presidency, I always spoke out against Trump's presidency because the man is a professional con man. I could care less about what he's said about Mexicans or Muslims, I personally was against him because he is a professional thief who has screwed over pretty much every person who has done business with him.

He has a track record of not paying his own employees or contractors, of hiring thousands of illegal immigrants, of screwing over innocent Americans out of money, all while knowing that they will never have deep enough pockets to sue him and win a lawsuit against him.

He didn't even pay the guy who wrote and performed the "USA Freedom Kids" song at Trump's rally, and he has become yet another American that is suing Trump for unpaid wages. Donald Trump tried to force his ghostwriter to pay for HIS book party.

Not only that, but Trump hasn't even paid his own carpenters, dishwashers, painters, even his own legal team's fees. The sheer numbers of people who say they weren't paid by Trump is atrocious.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/07/trump-files-donald-tried-make-his-ghostwriter-pay-his-book-party

Quote:

At least 60 lawsuits, along with hundreds of liens, judgments, and other government filings reviewed by the USA TODAY NETWORK, document people who have accused Trump and his businesses of failing to pay them for their work. Among them: a dishwasher in Florida. A glass company in New Jersey. A carpet company. A plumber. Painters. Forty-eight waiters. Dozens of bartenders and other hourly workers at his resorts and clubs, coast to coast. Real estate brokers who sold his properties. And, ironically, several law firms that once represented him in these suits and others.




http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2016/06/09/donald-trump-unpaid-bills-republican-president-laswuits/85297274/

This guy has millions of dollars and can even afford to self-sustain his presidency campaign, yet he can't bother with following through with paying the people who worked for him under that same campaign? If he can't bother to do that, the most simplest of things that would barely take any effort on his end, what makes you think he will do anything he has promised the American people?

And no, the policy still wouldn't work hypothetically. Trump spoke nothing about restructuring border patrol agents to save costs. In fact, he hasn't ever specified specifically what departments he is going to cut. Which seems rather odd he hasn't discussed those details considering he's stated he's going to cut tax brackets down to 0%-15%-25%, while at the same time investing more money in a wall.


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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23608874 - 09/03/16 06:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

beginning of Trump's presidency, I always spoke out against Trump's presidency because the man is a professional con man. I could care less about what he's said about Mexicans or Muslims, I personally was against him because he is a professional thief who has screwed over pretty much every person who has done business with him.




Yeah, trumps politics don't really bother me because I know he's just pandering in the most blatant way. He's not a serious person. This is all just another one of his sales pitches. What is disturbing is how far he seems to be willing to go, how little he cares about doing anything but the basking in the glory and praise he gets and would get if elected.

I doubt that will happen but if it did, I don't see him being competent enough actually succeed. Frankly, I doubt he would last four years. I think once he discovered how hard it is to do things and how his business experience is nothing Like the managing a government, he will quit or be impeached.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: koods]
    #23608896 - 09/03/16 06:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Who knows, maybe his brilliant plan to turn the economy around and build his wall at the same time will be by hiring millions of border guards, and then refuse to pay them afterward.

Then, he proceeds to file Chapter 9 bankruptcy on the entire country to clear all of the USA's debt. :lol:

Hey, that seems to be his MO when it comes to the business world. :shrug:


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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23608925 - 09/03/16 06:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Why did you try to argue that Trump's proposed Border Security and Immigration policy wouldn't work? And then why, after being shown why it would in fact work, are you trying to make it seem like that wasn't your argument all along? You basically bailed on that argument and now you're trying to save face by saying you meant something different.

So you have reservations about whether or not Trump will actually do the things he says he will? Well guess what, we all do, about all politicians, every election season. How does that make him any different from Hillary Clinton in that respect? She promises mostly horrible governmental agendas and policies of which I'm sure she's telling the truth. And she promises a few good policies (pandering, etc.) of which I'm sure she is outright lying or doublespeaking about. Hillary Clinton has been an incompetent and corrupt politician for decades and she is a verifiable D.C. insider. Whereas Donald Trump is a non-politician trying to breach the wall of D.C. corruption through electoral channels, as was intended by the Founding Fathers in order to replace shitty politicians if need be. Isn't that what we want?

I suppose worst case scenario Donald Trump could be a double-crosser and an operative. Afterall, anything's possible. But that would just be an unfounded conspiracy theory at this point. :wink:
We already know exactly what kind of politician Hillary Clinton is because we have actual evidence proving exactly who she is, what she's about, and what she intends to do. Besides, it's not as if people would be necessarily just voting Hillary Clinton into office. They would quite assuredly be just voting the Globalist Corporate Cabal into office, with her as their spokeswoman. She could drop dead of a brain aneurysm the moment she's elected, and the damage would already be done. It would be "Congratulations America, you just voted in a foreign ruling body of unelected Globalists and now Tim Kaine is your new Puppet President while we continue to rule you."


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
    #23608942 - 09/03/16 06:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Why did you try to argue that Trump's proposed Border Security and Immigration policy wouldn't work? And then why, after being shown why it would in fact work, are you trying to make it seem like that wasn't your argument all along? You basically bailed on that argument and now you're trying to save face by saying you meant something different.




You make it seem like Trump's going to get rid of in-land border patrol checkpoints for the sake of the American people. He has never once talked about doing this, so just because doing so is realistically possible in theory doesn't mean it will ever happen.

You're talking about things that will never happen. Like yeah, I could personally make all sorts of suggestions to get rid of the Federal Reserve to improve the economy, but unless a politician actually talks about taking the steps to restructure and destabilize the FED, you shouldn't assume that it's a feasibility.

Quote:

So you have reservations about whether or not Trump will actually do the things he says he will? Well guess what, we all do, about all politicians, every election season. How does that make him any different from Hillary Clinton in that respect?




I don't have doubts that he may not follow through. I'm saying he definitely WON'T follow through. He has literally double-crossed every single person he has done business with.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crumist]
    #23608964 - 09/03/16 06:46 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
Quote:

And anyone who enrolled in Trump U with that presumption is a sucker. Trump University provided the educational curriculum that they promised to provide.


As I understand it, the current case is about the bolded. Trump U promised certain things (the teachers would have real estate experience, and were handselected by Trump, etc) that were false. The case is whether or not this was fair game "sales talk" or deceptive "false advertising." I feel the Trump case is a bad choice to dog him with though. Supposedly Trump and his businesses have a nasty habit of contracting work and then failing to pay up after its done. I don't see how someone who uses the courts to intimidate and terrorize Americans who actually work for a living has become so popular. Trump is the king of frivolous lawsuits, but people see him as the solution rather than the problem. His poor ethical track record in business is by no means minor IMO.

I see Trump as far far less trustworthy than Hillary Clinton, and politifact (taking into account their bias) agrees with me.

And can you link to the post where you 
Quote:

just provided all the evidence and argumentation to prove my point.


I must have missed it.




That's true. Lawsuits of Trump U over false claims in advertising, etc. etc. Most uninformed clickbait headline digesters aren't even that knowledgeable about the case though. They just see the "University" in the name part and that's good enough for them to start crying bloody murder over it. And also fair point about unpaid contract work. I wish it weren't so, because it's definitely not a good look and makes the attacks on his character that much easier. It is however a very large business empire, replete with sub-contracted work, and Trump isn't able to realistically oversee every single facet of everything that gets done under his name. Therefore it's easy enough for lousy business to get done by people who aren't him, and then he is held responsible. I know he seems to really relish in firing people for some reason. :wink:


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
    #23608976 - 09/03/16 06:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
And also fair point about unpaid contract work. I wish it weren't so, because it's definitely not a good look and makes the attacks on his character that much easier. It is however a very large business empire, replete with sub-contracted work, and Trump isn't able to realistically oversee every single facet of everything that gets done under his name. Therefore it's easy enough for lousy business to get done by people who aren't him, and then he is held responsible. I know he seems to really relish in firing people for some reason. :wink:




You would think somebody like Trump would have dozens of financial advisors overseeing where every penny of his money gets spent to, and who he owes money to. If he does have people tracking his money and reminding him that he owes money to so and so (which he likely does), he has no excuse for stiffing contractors and other employees.

Even when he receives lawsuits for unpaid labor, he'd rather go to court and fight it out to nickel and dime the person, knowing that he will likely win since he can afford a better legal team, instead of simply paying for the unpaid labor.

I mean really, there is no excuse for stiffing EVERY SINGLE person you have ever done business with. I could see one or two or even a couple. But thousands?!??!!?


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