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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
    #23603554 - 09/02/16 02:11 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah, you're always making strawmans. If you followed the conversation, I was arguing about the costs of the wall.

Earlier on in this thread I emphasized the following:

Quote:

Think of the long-term costs associated with it.

I mean, you HAVE to guard the wall, because if you aren't, it won't be effective, it'll just be a waste of money.

For one, because it's not cost-effective. I listed several problems with the wall a couple of posts back.




Seriously, it seems you don't read people's arguments coherently.


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23604024 - 09/02/16 08:48 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Holy shit, Israel built a wall that works!!

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/11/11/does-a-border-fence-work-check-out-the-dramatic-change-after-israel-put-one-up/

"The fence has completely stopped illegal migration to Israel"


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Invisibletrekie
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: qman]
    #23604062 - 09/02/16 09:13 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)



--------------------
I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.



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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: trekie]
    #23604115 - 09/02/16 09:40 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You can't compare walls totaling less than hundred miles in a densely populated area to one that would stretch 2,000 miles through some areas with no population whatsoever.

The Israeli wall isn't working that well, either. They have a huge problem with tunnels, and the government is now building underground to block them along 60 miles of their border.

The Israeli government spent billions dollars for less than a hundred miles of wall. The new project to block tunnels alone is costing $600 million. That's $10 million per mile just to prevent tunnels. If you want an Israeli style wall along our southern border, it would cost hundreds of billions of dollars.

http://m.jpost.com/Arab-Israeli-Conflict/Israel-plans-to-build-concrete-wall-along-Gaza-above-and-below-ground-456977#article=6018MDUwQjQ4MDBENjJDRTQ3MTk5QzMwMDAzQTIyRTdGOUU=


--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23604117 - 09/02/16 09:41 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Well, how else would you guard the border? You obviously can't space them too far apart, if there are miles and miles of open spaces with no guards, then it means the wall isn't guarded properly.

So, how many guards are appropriate? 2 guards for every half mile? 2 guards for every 1/8th mile? Surely some distinction must be drawn.





why do you assume we even need people to 'guard' a wall



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Offlinekoods
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: koods]
    #23604121 - 09/02/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

http://972mag.com/wave-of-stabbings-show-israels-wall-isnt-about-security/112620/

Quote:

More than a decade has passed since then and Israel has now completed most of the fence. Now that it is nearly complete, however, we are seeing a new wave of attacks being carried out by West Bank Palestinians who are going around, through or over the barrier in order to reach Israel. Israel’s defense establishment is very aware of the fence’s inefficiency at stopping attacks.

Top Israeli police commanders last week proposed putting a complete closure on the West Bank in a bid to stop the latest wave of violence. Labor party head and Opposition Leader Isaac Herzog, looking to build some iron-fisted security cred, made a near-identical proposal. The head of the defense establishment, from the IDF to the Shin Bet, rejected the proposal out of hand.

Even far-right hawk Naftali Bennett came out against the idea of fences and closures as a solution to the latest wave of stabbings on Sunday, saying that physical barriers are inefficient, applying the same wisdom to Gaza. Where there’s a will there’s a way, he told Ynet, and there’s always another route.

Local government figures in southern Israel derided the army this week for its impotence in staying on top of the whack-a-mole network of breaches in the fence through which thousands of undocumented Palestinian laborers pass on their way to work in Israel. Anybody determined enough can and does get through, or around the fence on a daily basis — several documentaries have been made on the phenomenon.





--------------------
NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”


Edited by koods (09/02/16 09:45 AM)


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: koods]
    #23604122 - 09/02/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
If you want an Israeli style wall along our southern border, it would cost hundreds of billions of dollars.





no, we want a wall that works


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OfflineCrumist
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Great Scott]
    #23604250 - 09/02/16 10:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen say:
The Republicans actually did try to rig the primary against Trump. They failed.
ie: Colorado canceled the primary voting and declared Cruz the winner. It happened in a couple other states, as well, if I remember correctly. The NeverTrumper's also tried to contest his nomination at the convention. Didn't work. Trump got too much of the popular vote for it to be stolen in any subtle fashion. They would have had to do it like the Democrats and steal it blatantly ala Hillary vs. Bernie.


Hillary won the popular vote as well, but perhaps there was blatant vote rigging as yet
undiscovered. But the fact that Trump got the nomination makes you so confident
that he isn't a plant? Also, it was a laugh you calling Akira cynical.

Quote:

I'm not really sure what you're arguing right now. I was talking about the wall's effectiveness, not whether or not it's going to cost a bunch of money. The wall isn't just the wall. It's a multi-faceted plan of installing an improved physical barrier in conjunction with technological tools and implementation of existing (and additional) B.P. agents already on the ground.

You seem lucid sometimes but then you go off on tangents.


From where I stand, you haven't made any kind of convincing argument for building the wall.
All of your points focus on the peripheral technology and strategies. Are you under the impression
we need a gigantic wall to hang sensors upon?

What benefit does the actual wall itself provide beyond the extensive fencing already in place?

Given this benefit (which I argue is slight to none), are the (I'd argue massive) costs justified?!

EDIT:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 say:
No, we want a wall that works


And obviously our wall covering 20x the distance and impossible terrain,
and more effective than Israel's wall will also end up being cheaper, right?


Edited by Crumist (09/02/16 10:46 AM)


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Offlineqman
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crumist]
    #23604269 - 09/02/16 10:51 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The wall doesn't have to be perfect, if 5% still get through so be it. 

Israel is looking for perfection because of the terrorist risks associated with the illegals coming into their country, the US is in a different situation.


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: qman]
    #23604386 - 09/02/16 11:28 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If we legally emegrated there, they have laws against upsetting the demographics. No protesting, no flag burning.

we are the racists though

also, someone helping an illegal down there is subject to up to ten years in prison and the illegal, 2.


--------------------


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23604444 - 09/02/16 11:48 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
also, someone helping an illegal down there is subject to up to ten years in prison and the illegal, 2.




Which country are you referring to? Because if you're referring to America, the illegals might go to jail for a short while, but after that they are deported. And once they are deported, their names are on a blacklist which prevents them from ever getting citizenship or gaining legal entry to the country ever again.

It only makes sense for the person committing trafficking to get more prison time than the poor guy just seeking for a better life. Similar to how drug dealers always get more time than people seeking out drugs.

Doesn't make sense spending our tax dollars putting illegals into our prison systems anyway, when their only crime was being here.


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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23604485 - 09/02/16 12:09 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Im reffering to mexico. Americans cant even own waterfront property there. They are much stricter. its ok when non anglos are discriminatory though, because we had colonies. Noone else had colonies, right?

You know how many countries are ethno centric, or were?

England for the Angles, Scotland(Scotish), Poland, France, Thailand, China(905 ethnically Han Chinese), Laos, Japan, Burma(Myanmar)


well, a fuck ton. There isnt anything rong with it. we have the menting pot myth destroying us. People think america ha no culture and freedom is up to interperetation, and people abuse it to mean they can be fuck offs and have no responsibility for their lives.


--------------------


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23604513 - 09/02/16 12:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Lol, they're clearly not that strict, there's over 1 million American expats living in Mexico.

Not only that, but many of these expatriates overstay their visas or don't apply for one at all, and are technically living over the border illegally.

Then there's all those criminals and fugitives who flee to Mexico to escape US law.

And lol, you're wrong. England and France have been multicultural for about as long as we have. And multiculturalism works just fine. You don't see England or France complaining about all the Indians and Chinese and Brazilians and Filipinos and Romani gypsies living in their country. Quite many people have argued that multiculturalism in the past has worked fine before all the Muslims came pouring in hordes.

Multiculturalism works just fine in San Francisco, in Seattle, in Manhattan.

Exploring and resettling in other lands should not be a privilege entitled to only whites.


Edited by Crystal G (09/02/16 12:39 PM)


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23604549 - 09/02/16 12:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The laws are on the books. Mexico is corrupt and has few esources to deal with this, plus, fart fewer people are going from here to there, because it is a poor country. If we put laws like that down, people would scream racism

Large cities have more crime then less diverse places. Multiculteralism doesnt work. Pluralism works. When Americans feel they can just be themselves and the ide of merica means nothing specific, it poisons the country

e are here now. Just because it was done in the past doesnt mean we have an obligation to give our culture away. Thats a stupid, sick way to think

Whites settloed whites too. The Anglos didnt colonize an empty UK.
All of these countries I mentioned are named for the ethnic group that they were settled for. The European countries made the mistake of being very multiculteral.


--------------------


Edited by specialpeopleclub (09/02/16 12:45 PM)


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23604611 - 09/02/16 01:01 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Large cities have more crime then less diverse places. Multiculteralism doesnt work. Pluralism works. When Americans feel they can just be themselves and the ide of merica means nothing specific, it poisons the country





No, they don't, that's just a myth.

One of the safest cities in California is Irvine, which is a very multicultural city with only 40% whites. Compare that with Riverside, which has atrocious crime rates with an over 70% white population. Irvine has continuously made "top 10 safest cities in America" for years in the past.

In a lot of "white cities" in certain areas, especially in the desert, you get a large portion of trailer trash and tweakers, so you find similar crime in these areas.

When you account for income level and look at places that are at least middle or upper-middle class, you find that crime rates are very low in multicultural environments.

This isn't the 80's anymore, NYC and LA haven't been considered dangerous in decades. I've always felt that San Francisco was easily one of the safest cities I've ever been to.

Take a look at Honolulu, they are very diverse and are safe.

You should look at the "Honest Tea Experiment" on YT where they test people's honesty by putting beverages out on a stand with nobody watching--they tested peoples honesty by secretly videotaping them and seeing how many of them steal the beverages as opposed to paying for them. Honolulu was the only city that scored a 100% on the honesty level.


Edited by Crystal G (09/02/16 01:10 PM)


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23604633 - 09/02/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Its trend.
Your examples dont change that more urbanized and diverse areas have more crime. Durgs and poverty contribute. There are obviously other variables, but a lack of a central defining culture destroys a sense of community.

San Francisco is unbelievably expensive and a tech hub, Manhattan is gentrifying fast and pushing out the poor like San Francisco.
Honolulu is on an Island far from anything. Its one of the most livable cities in the country. LA is full of drug addicts and deviants, literally millions of homeless people, many illegals. It isnt a nice place.

There are many smaller urbanized areas like my town all over the country that are becoming worse and worse.

The point is, America needs a common culture or having a country means nothing at all


--------------------


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crystal G]
    #23604666 - 09/02/16 01:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Take a look at the top 25 safest cities in America: http://www.adtsecurity.com/safest-cities-in-america/

Number 7 is Bergenfield, New Jersey. Whites are 39.4%, Hispanics 26.5%, Asian 25.3%, Blacks 6.4%.

Number 10 is Montgomery Township, New Jersey, whites are 67.66%.

Number 17 is North Chicago, their white population is 47.89%, 29.92% black, 3.76% Asian.

Number 25 is Rancho Santa Margarita, at 77% white.

Apparently there were 3 runner-ups for safest cities: Santa Clarita, Irvine, and Gilbert.

Santa Clarita is 56.1% white, 3.2% black, 8.5% Asian, 29.5% Latino. I spoke earlier about Irvine, Irvine is approximately 40% whites.

Clearly multiculturalism is not the problem.

And Manhattan already gentrified 20 years ago. It is now an extremely safe urban city, with thousands of cops patrolling the streets at all times. If Manhattan were that dangerous there wouldn't be millions of tourists flocking to the city every year.


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OfflineCrumist
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23604678 - 09/02/16 01:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:The point is, America needs a common culture or having a country means nothing at all


What do you propose comprises our common culture?
*Your* culture? Only cultures that fit your checklist? White *check* christian *check* materialistic *check*

How about "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator
with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of
Happiness."

How about:
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,"

How about a nation of people not bound together by race
or history or even language; but by a common striving towards
greater "liberty and justice for all"


--------------------
'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion
Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crumist]
    #23604691 - 09/02/16 01:35 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:The point is, America needs a common culture or having a country means nothing at all


What do you propose comprises our common culture?
*Your* culture? Only cultures that fit your checklist? White *check* christian *check* materialistic *check*




I don't know where he even gets the idea that America doesn't have a "culture."

Clearly this guy has never travelled outside the country, because to other foreign people it's SOOOOO painfully obvious by the way we act how American we are.

To them, Americans act a certain way, hold certain beliefs, have certain manners, etc. I can instantaneously tell the difference between an American and a British, or the difference between an American and a French when I meet them.

So this dude doesn't know what he's talking about.

Frankly we can do a little better and act a little less stereotypically American in certain ways--there's a reason Americans all over the world get a bad rap for being loud, ignorant, uncultured, and uneducated about world matters. Also, they're embarrassingly overly conservative when compared to Europe's right-wing conservative party.


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: The Great Wall of China vs The Great Wall of Trump [Re: Crumist]
    #23604695 - 09/02/16 01:36 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

what are the basis of these statistics?
North Chicogo? So, just ignore the whole almost 3000 murders a year in Chicago?

Im very sceptical of the boundries of these statistics

what about the least safe cities?
Quote:

Crumist said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:The point is, America needs a common culture or having a country means nothing at all


What do you propose comprises our common culture?
*Your* culture? Only cultures that fit your checklist? White *check* christian *check* materialistic *check*

How about "that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator
with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of
Happiness."

How about:
"Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she
With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me,"

How about a nation of people not bound together by race
or history or even language; but by a common striving towards
greater "liberty and justice for all"




That idea was stupid. we al know what american culture started as. Its racist to insinuate we were a white culterally english country

So, a nation with no direction where we cant understand each other, where the only goal is self indulgence? where noone has a sense of duty to their country? Sounds about like where we are


--------------------


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