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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: qman] 1
#23622927 - 09/07/16 05:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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qman said: Slave owners in the UK did receive compensation, but that did not occur inside of the US, so why did you suggest otherwise? I'm sorry, but 900 slaves out of 4 million is meaningless.
Sorry where is the 4 million figure from? Is that the number of slaves in the US at that time?
Why are you saying that compensation for slave owners did not happen within the US when i've just given you an example of this exact thing happening in Washington DC?? its called the District of Columbia Compensated Emancipation Act. It was attempted in many states but did not pass elsewhere. Anyway.. my original point was referring to British slave owners because, as I said, I didn't know the extent of compensation in the US.
And i made a mistake, it was about 900-odd slave owners and actually over 3000 slaves. Still nothing though, right?
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Should myself and my family seek reparations for past abuse of our ancestors in Poland? I mean there's plenty there to pick from, there's negative implications that my family is still dealing with, I WANT SOME FREE SHIT.
Its not about free shit. Yes amends should have been made for gross injustices. Slavery is a gross injustice of huge proportions.
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


Registered: 10/28/11
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ChemicalSpark said:
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Tipote said: Also, is anyone going to acknowledge the millions of "third worlders" who fought and died for the allies? Those parasites..
You're the first to mention them, as well as call them parasites.
Clearly, i did not mean they were parasites. It was a reference to previous conversations that clearly you are not aware of.
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ChemicalSpark said: Why did you even comment on this thread in the first place?
Why would you ask that? Why did you start this thread in the first place? Did you only want people who agree with you to comment? I forgot that is how discussion really works. 
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Crumist
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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: qman] 3
#23622961 - 09/07/16 05:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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qman said:Where does it end? You want total equality, that's NEVER going to happen because humans are NOT equal, we are all different!!
It ends when we are able to get the most use we possibly can out of our human capital. It ends when we stop having brilliant people working at McDonalds their whole life because they were born poor or black. There will never be an end to working to reduce sexual harassment in the workplace or domestic violence.
I see nothing wrong with always trying to make society more equal though, as would any reasonable minded person. Only when you think of nonwhite people as slightly subhuman or poor people as inherently lacking in morality might you be happy with the status quo.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
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qman
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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: Tipote]
#23622986 - 09/07/16 05:56 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said:
Quote:
qman said: Slave owners in the UK did receive compensation, but that did not occur inside of the US, so why did you suggest otherwise? I'm sorry, but 900 slaves out of 4 million is meaningless.
Sorry where is the 4 million figure from? Is that the number of slaves in the US at that time?
Why are you saying that compensation for slave owners did not happen within the US when i've just given you an example of this exact thing happening in Washington DC?? its called the District of Columbia Compensated Emancipation Act. It was attempted in many states but did not pass elsewhere. Anyway.. my original point was referring to British slave owners because, as I said, I didn't know the extent of compensation in the US.
And i made a mistake, it was about 900-odd slave owners and actually over 3000 slaves. Still nothing though, right?
Quote:
Should myself and my family seek reparations for past abuse of our ancestors in Poland? I mean there's plenty there to pick from, there's negative implications that my family is still dealing with, I WANT SOME FREE SHIT.
Its not about free shit. Yes amends should have been made for gross injustices. Slavery is a gross injustice of huge proportions.
You see, I don't arrogantly judge every historical act of perceived injustice in the year 2016 like you do, I don't want amends, I don't blame my present and future on the past.
Going back into the past and pissing and whining about everything accomplishes very little, in fact it's counterproductive in almost all aspects. If you want to send race relations back another 50 years, go ahead and demand free shit from people that had NOTHING to do with those injustices.
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


Registered: 10/28/11
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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: Alyssa] 2
#23623021 - 09/07/16 06:04 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Alyssa said:
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Tipote said: despite it being something like less than 1% of muslims in the world who are engaged in extremist jihad?
Would you be ok with people making similar judgements about you for being Jewish?
Does your feeling transfer to sihks and hindus too or are you pro at knowing who is muslim?
and LOL at "not so much females". so you still fear them clubbing you?

I don't think females are very likely to be violent, but it's still possible. Female suicide bombers come to mind. I don't care about your statistics, I believe that a substantial fraction of male Muslims are prone to violence;
a substantial fraction of men are prone to violence.
Youre more likely to die from toddlers accidentally shooting you, the innocent veiled woman in your proximity does not give a fuck about you and has no interest in violence. If anything, they probably look at you side-wise thinking the same thing - that you might inflict violence upon them. More violence is happening against muslims than against non-muslim Americans.
Ignore statistics, sense, logic anything you like.
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Islam is an evil ideology.
which believes in Moses, Abraham and the Jewish teachings.
again.... ISLAM IS NOT MONOLITHIC - yes there are people who use religion for evil purposes but this is not the full story. Are you aware of the evil purposes that Judaism, Christianity is used for? Is that the full story? NO
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Alyssa said: I'm not aware of Sikhs or Hindus being especially violent.
You missed the point 
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Alyssa said: I'm OK with any judgments people make about me for being Jewish, it's worth it to be able to express my full solidarity with the people of Israel. Furthermore, such judgments in my case are likely to be wrong as I interpret Judaism in a unique and very different way.
Since you interpret Judaism in your own way, why can't you understand that billions of people do this around the world with their own religions?
Also.. judgements about being Jewish is one thing, but these prejudices with the power structure behind them means all kinds of nasty shit for those affected. As a Jew, you should be more aware of this considering Jewish history. In fact, it is many Jewish groups in the US coming out in defense of Islam for this reason.
And about solidarity with israel.. you have never been there, you don't know what israel is doing in the name of judaism and you pretend that Israel doesnt have a ton of muslim and christian citizens as it is the holy land after all. I asked you if you were politically Jewish, the term means nothing but you identify with it anyway. It assumes that Jews have one political position, if you knew anything about the Jewish community then you would know this isnt the case. Even if you didnt know a thing about the Jewish community, you should realise this obvious truth...
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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qman
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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: Crumist] 1
#23623029 - 09/07/16 06:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Crumist said:
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qman said:Where does it end? You want total equality, that's NEVER going to happen because humans are NOT equal, we are all different!!
It ends when we are able to get the most use we possibly can out of our human capital. It ends when we stop having brilliant people working at McDonalds their whole life because they were born poor or black. There will never be an end to working to reduce sexual harassment in the workplace or domestic violence.
I see nothing wrong with always trying to make society more equal though, as would any reasonable minded person. Only when you think of nonwhite people as slightly subhuman or poor people as inherently lacking in morality might you be happy with the status quo.
"when we stop having brilliant people working at McDonalds their whole life because they were born poor or black"
Are you OK? Are you suggesting a brilliant highly educated black person is going to have to work at McDonalds just because of their race?
BTW, there's nothing wrong with working at a restaurant, why do you think it's so demeaning?
"nothing wrong with trying to make society more equal"
How about trying to give EVERYONE equal OPPORTUNITY, not equal OUTCOMES!!
You're fixated on equal outcomes, that can't happen because everyone is different.
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: qman] 1
#23623034 - 09/07/16 06:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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qman said: "it wasn't just white Europeans that built the US"
So now it's just semantics at this point, anything to diminish white Europeans. How about putting it into a proper perspective instead of making generalizations?
Sorry but words mean things. I am doing the opposite of generalising to say that it wasn't JUST Europeans.
Diminish white Europeans? NO, its just about making accurate statements! How does it diminish white Europeans????
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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ChemicalSpark


Registered: 10/08/15
Posts: 2,057
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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: Crumist]
#23623035 - 09/07/16 06:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Edited by ChemicalSpark (11/22/16 10:37 AM)
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


Registered: 10/28/11
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Quote:
ChemicalSpark said:
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Tipote said: I said it was my opinion but you don't seem to care for a rationale or state your own. good one..
I replied with the amount of intelligence and energy I thought your comment deserved. Near zero.

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ChemicalSpark said:
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Tipote said: Can you give an example? Which group, how are the laws catering to them and how is it making it harder for the average middle class American?
A better question would be "which one of those groups is not pushing for laws that give them preferential treatment?"...
But here's one example that has affected my peers as well as myself. The "Affirmative Action" minority quota bull shit that many Universities are enforcing.
Untold numbers of caucasian males, applying with higher GPAs and all around better credentials than their ethnically diverse peers, are turned away in order to cater to the minority.
Untold numbers? Do you have figures on this? Do these peers of yours not end up in good universities with their superior GPAs?
While i'm sure AA does cause a lot of butthurt for people, can you show that "they were turned down to cater to the minority"? Surely its good for the middle classes for those who might have previously have been held back from education to study. Its not like they automatically pass their exams and graduate for being black. While I can imagine that there are some very unreasonable applicatinos of AA, i'm yet to see the clear case laid out by you. In the grand scheme of things I dont think its a big deal.
I'm interested to learn if you actually want to engage in adult discussion. I don't know much about AA across the country but i'm certain this is not a reason why things in the US have been getting shitter perhaps you can explain?
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ChemicalSpark said:
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Tipote said: Perhaps you can only see it in terms of demonisation against whites since you are blind to the reality because you are not affected by the reality of the structural violence and problems that come from racist power structures throughout the history and which continue to perpetuate inequalities? Just a thought.
Perhaps you're a liberal pansy quack... Just a thought.
ohhh boom, you sure showed me! What an argument! I can see why you don't like talking with people who disagree with you.

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ChemicalSpark said:
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Tipote said: Europeans were the majority, yes, and that does not invalidate the point that it wasn't just white Europeans that build the US....
Did I say it was invalidated? No. I simply pointed out the group that contributed the most, many of which also immigrated to America.
You can twist my words however you want, but they were pretty straightforward.
words mean things, there is no twisting here.
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: qman] 1
#23623134 - 09/07/16 06:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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qman said: Don't you realize trying to fix past "injustices" with reparations is a never ending battle that can never be accomplished?
Where does it end? You want total equality, that's NEVER going to happen because humans are NOT equal, we are all different!!
How far back do you go back? A hundred years, five hundred, a thousand?
What about reparations for people that had a family member die in a unjust war?
What about reparations for Europeans that were mistreated when they arrived in the US?
What about reparations for people that had women family members oppressed in early America?
What about reparations for people that had ancestors abused by child labor in early America?
Or is this just about black and white for you and others?
No, mate, you are the black and white thinker, among others, here.
The point is that slavery over centuries is just not comparable to any of your examples for other cases for reparations.
Why is it so difficult to understand this?
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Alyssa
consecrated woman ✝️

Registered: 11/25/14
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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: Tipote]
#23623153 - 09/07/16 06:34 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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All religions since long ago are based on versions of the word of God that have been perverted by patriarchs so that they can continue to subjugate females. Islam has perverted it to the extreme, at least in the way it's practiced. FGM, sex slavery, domestic violence, rape and terrorism are all prevalent in Muslim culture and tolerated by most Muslims, even those who don't perpetrate them themselves. I haven't read the Quran so I don't know if the perversion is religious or cultural, but I don't see the need to make that distinction.
Jews on the whole are a peaceful people who ignore the evil parts of the Tanakh and value love higher than anything else. I don't take my holy book at face value at all, I only value it as a history of my people and a collection of praise to God who is in fact female even if the people who wrote the Psalms etc. didn't know that. I take the entire thing and make it about worshiping the almighty female. I think it's awesome that I'm appropriating a part of history and culture that is important to so many people and using it to further my feminist cause.
-------------------- I'm Alyssa. I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart. I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.
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qman
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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: Tipote]
#23623185 - 09/07/16 06:42 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said:
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qman said: Don't you realize trying to fix past "injustices" with reparations is a never ending battle that can never be accomplished?
Where does it end? You want total equality, that's NEVER going to happen because humans are NOT equal, we are all different!!
How far back do you go back? A hundred years, five hundred, a thousand?
What about reparations for people that had a family member die in a unjust war?
What about reparations for Europeans that were mistreated when they arrived in the US?
What about reparations for people that had women family members oppressed in early America?
What about reparations for people that had ancestors abused by child labor in early America?
Or is this just about black and white for you and others?
No, mate, you are the black and white thinker, among others, here.
The point is that slavery over centuries is just not comparable to any of your examples for other cases for reparations.
Why is it so difficult to understand this?
Oh really, injustices and their level of magnitude are to be judged solely by people that think like you? Who nominated you the moral authority of past injustices?
You don't think making a 7 year old child to work a 12 hour day in a factory isn't abuse? It's not enough for you because they weren't in chains?
You do realize that slaves received a higher level of compensation than many people working in third world countries today? Where's your outrage in 2016? Nah, you're more fixated on injustices from a few hundred years ago.
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: qman] 2
#23623191 - 09/07/16 06:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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qman said:
You see, I don't arrogantly judge every historical act of perceived injustice in the year 2016 like you do, I don't want amends, I don't blame my present and future on the past.
I'm not talking about perceived injustices in the present. I'm talking about historical actual gross injustices.
Quote:
Going back into the past and pissing and whining about everything accomplishes very little, in fact it's counterproductive in almost all aspects. If you want to send race relations back another 50 years, go ahead and demand free shit from people that had NOTHING to do with those injustices.
Are people pissing and whining about the legacy of slavery???????
How is it counter productive? Because it brings up a history that does not affect you because of your privilege as a white man?
Can you imagine what Africa would be like today without the global slave trade??
Its not about free shit, its about reparations. Repairing the damage - or because that is impossible, to at least make steps towards it.
How can you not see the gross injustice even in giving compensation to slave owners but nothing except centuries of oppression for freed slaves?
You and chemicalspark can cry all you like about how you didnt personally have a slave or that it demonises white people.. but do you think money would only be taken from white people? It is a collective cause for humanity.
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: qman] 1
#23623229 - 09/07/16 06:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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qman said: How about trying to give EVERYONE equal OPPORTUNITY, not equal OUTCOMES!!
You're fixated on equal outcomes, that can't happen because everyone is different.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. People who grow up in the ghetto don't have the same opportunities as those who grow up in their parent's mansion.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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Tipote
petty crook and transvestite


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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: qman]
#23623230 - 09/07/16 06:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
qman said: Oh really, injustices and their level of magnitude are to be judged solely by people that think like you? Who nominated you the moral authority of past injustices?
You don't think making a 7 year old child to work a 12 hour day in a factory isn't abuse? It's not enough for you because they weren't in chains?
dear god, you really dont understand.
making a 7 year old child work a 12 hour day in a factory is abuse, obviously it is. But this does not have rammifications over centuries!!!
and yes, there is a big difference that those children were not actual property their entire lives and descendants of people stolen from other countries.
Quote:
You do realize that slaves received a higher level of compensation than many people working in third world countries today? Where's your outrage in 2016? Nah, you're more fixated on injustices from a few hundred years ago. 
What do you mean by this? Slaves got higher level of compensation than people working in third world countries?
No i'm not fixated on injustices from a few hundred years ago. The injustices continue to the present day. there is slavery still in the world. Also I already made the point about Haiti only just paying off its separation-fee to france in the 60s after 100 years. This is not ancient history!!!!!
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War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength
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qman
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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: Tipote]
#23623245 - 09/07/16 06:55 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said:
Quote:
qman said:
You see, I don't arrogantly judge every historical act of perceived injustice in the year 2016 like you do, I don't want amends, I don't blame my present and future on the past.
I'm not talking about perceived injustices in the present. I'm talking about historical actual gross injustices.
Quote:
Going back into the past and pissing and whining about everything accomplishes very little, in fact it's counterproductive in almost all aspects. If you want to send race relations back another 50 years, go ahead and demand free shit from people that had NOTHING to do with those injustices.
Are people pissing and whining about the legacy of slavery???????
How is it counter productive? Because it brings up a history that does not affect you because of your privilege as a white man?
Can you imagine what Africa would be like today without the global slave trade??
Its not about free shit, its about reparations. Repairing the damage - or because that is impossible, to at least make steps towards it.
How can you not see the gross injustice even in giving compensation to slave owners but nothing except centuries of oppression for freed slaves?
You and chemicalspark can cry all you like about how you didnt personally have a slave or that it demonises white people.. but do you think money would only be taken from white people? It is a collective cause for humanity.
I'm a Slav from Poland, what the hell did I have to do with it? In fact, what about my reparations, Slavs = slaves.
Can you imagine what Poland would be like today? I mean the horrible injustices of my people still affects my family today, please help us? It is a collect cause for humanity.
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Skellies


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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: Tipote]
#23623255 - 09/07/16 06:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Tipote said: The point is that slavery over centuries is just not comparable to any of your examples for other cases for reparations.
Your argument for reparations seems to be based on the following point you made:
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Tipote said: I was making the point that historical injustices with ramifications to the present day should be remedied, not out of guilt but in the name of justice and humanity.
Seeing that most historical injustices have present day ramifications, why shouldn't we have reparations for family members who die in unjust wars? If a bunch of fathers/breadwinners die in a war their children and their future offspring are left in a pretty bad situation. Many working class families may be a lot better off today if it wasn't for such historical injustices.
-------------------- Nosleep mode: Activated
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qman
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Quote:
Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
Quote:
qman said: How about trying to give EVERYONE equal OPPORTUNITY, not equal OUTCOMES!!
You're fixated on equal outcomes, that can't happen because everyone is different.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. People who grow up in the ghetto don't have the same opportunities as those who grow up in their parent's mansion.
That's why the ultimate goal is equal opportunity, blacks in the US ghetto have more opportunity than blacks in Africa, what's your solution? In fact, blacks in the US ghetto still live better than 95% of the world's population, I wonder why?
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qman
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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: Tipote]
#23623266 - 09/07/16 07:03 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tipote said:
Quote:
qman said: Oh really, injustices and their level of magnitude are to be judged solely by people that think like you? Who nominated you the moral authority of past injustices?
You don't think making a 7 year old child to work a 12 hour day in a factory isn't abuse? It's not enough for you because they weren't in chains?
dear god, you really dont understand.
making a 7 year old child work a 12 hour day in a factory is abuse, obviously it is. But this does not have rammifications over centuries!!!
and yes, there is a big difference that those children were not actual property their entire lives and descendants of people stolen from other countries.
Quote:
You do realize that slaves received a higher level of compensation than many people working in third world countries today? Where's your outrage in 2016? Nah, you're more fixated on injustices from a few hundred years ago. 
What do you mean by this? Slaves got higher level of compensation than people working in third world countries?
No i'm not fixated on injustices from a few hundred years ago. The injustices continue to the present day. there is slavery still in the world. Also I already made the point about Haiti only just paying off its separation-fee to france in the 60s after 100 years. This is not ancient history!!!!!
Paying for the slave, housing them, feeding them and giving them free health care is much more expensive than paying .40 cents per hour to someone in Vietnam in the year 2016.
In fact, accounting records showed that owning slaves was not very profitable after the price of cotton declined, it was more for ego and show than money.
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Falcon91Wolvrn03
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Re: The Good Ol' Days [Re: qman] 1
#23623319 - 09/07/16 07:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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qman said:
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Falcon91Wolvrn03 said:
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qman said: How about trying to give EVERYONE equal OPPORTUNITY, not equal OUTCOMES!!
You're fixated on equal outcomes, that can't happen because everyone is different.
That's exactly what I'm talking about. People who grow up in the ghetto don't have the same opportunities as those who grow up in their parent's mansion.
That's why the ultimate goal is equal opportunity, blacks in the US ghetto have more opportunity than blacks in Africa, what's your solution? In fact, blacks in the US ghetto still live better than 95% of the world's population, I wonder why? 
No where did anyone say blacks in Africa should have the same opportunity as blacks in the US.
I thought I was agreeing with YOUR point "to give EVERYONE equal OPPORTUNITY, not equal OUTCOMES!!" in the US.
-------------------- I am in a minority on the shroomery, as I frequently defend the opposing side when they have a point about something or when my side make believes something about them. I also attack my side if I think they're wrong. People here get very confused by that and think it means I prefer the other side.
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