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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
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Re: If you were judged and sent to heaven or hell which would it be? [Re: Moonshoe]
#23600466 - 09/01/16 09:32 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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1 Peter 5:8 states verbatim for faithful to "be sober-minded". Galatians 5:19-21 explicitly warns against "impurity" and drunkenness, among others. 2 Timothy 4:5 is another verbatim urging to sober-mindedness 1 Corinthians 6:12 says to avoid being enslaved to any earthly things.
Innumerable other verses allude to the sanctity of the moral body as a vessel of god and to sanctify it as such, to avoid impurity in its various forms, to resist temptations of all sorts, so on and so forth.
I mean have you even read a bible? You're not even trying anymore.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,514
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: If you were judged and sent to heaven or hell which would it be? [Re: Asante]
#23600476 - 09/01/16 09:34 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Asante said: I didnt know you were Jewish? Those rules pertain to God's Chosen People. White people weren't even in the picture, except as the oppressive force that were Romans.
I'm an atheist.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Cosmic_Flame
THE BREAKFAST EMPRESS



Registered: 11/16/12
Posts: 4,184
Loc: Under The Sea
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Re: If you were judged and sent to heaven or hell which would it be? [Re: Enlil]
#23600513 - 09/01/16 09:44 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Moonshoe said:
That is a misconception. There is not a single verse in the bible that even indirectly means That using drugs is a sin.
That's not entirely true. There are plenty of verses in the bible that say that we are to obey the laws of the land. As long as drugs are illegal, using them is a sin according to the bible.
The old testament demonizes a lot of things considered to be of neutral standing in the ancient world. Drugs in this case are no exception. Take the oracle of delphi for example and other mystics during that era its safe to say that their practice included some kind drug use. When Christianity became the dominant religion many practices became the work of the devil and so forth. Usually things that gave any reason to doubt God or faith was considered to be evil. Fast forward to today and that kind of thinking hasn't really changed on a global scale yet.
Another example of this would be the persecution of witchcraft. What we call modern medicine was considered to be magical at one point in time. So again the parallel of the devil was used against the mentally ill and those that had advanced knowledge of herbs and healing. Another point I'd like to make is that when we're under the influence of psychedelics we all know what that's like and what we seem like to sober people. Can you imagine tripping during an era when Christians were hunting down anyone that behaved outside their norm? The bible may have never said literally that drug use is a sin (it speaks in metaphors), however there are enough passages in it that lays the foundation of the religious conservative mindset, which created this "war on drugs" in the later half of the 20th century. This unfounded fear has been in existence for more than a millennium, they just kept rebranding it over the centuries.
tl;dr same shit, diff day
-------------------- Pull the blinds and change their minds....
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: If you were judged and sent to heaven or hell which would it be? [Re: Enlil]
#23600523 - 09/01/16 09:45 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Theologically I disagree. There are many cases in the bible when God commands the Israelites to do things that violate the laws of the land, or when characters are honored and esteemed precisely for disobeying the unjust laws of the land.
For example, when Daniel continues to pray in his widow after the decree prohibiting It was passed, when Shadrach , Mishac and Abendago refused to bow to the statue of king Nebechadnezzer , or even when Jesus did healing on the Sabbath.
Jesus made many statements defying the rules of the Pharisees of his time and was considered a law breaker and rebel by the Jewish law makers.
There are numerous biblical precedents for breaking laws when they are not moral or just .
Furthermore , the book of Leviticus and others lay out comprehensive and detailed laws and rules covering every conceivable aspect of life no matter how trivial.
And yet no where does even a single verse prohibiting the use of mind altering substances appear anywhere.
Even wearing a shirt of mixed fibers is forbidden and yet not a single law about drugs .
This makes it very clear that using mind altering substances was never something forbidden by any part of Jewish or biblical law, nor by any of the teachings of Jesus.
Even if someone does break one of the laws In the bible , that doesn't mean they are automatically going to hell.
It's not as simple as if you break any rule you go to hell.
Even more importantly, the concept of hell itself is a lie and a blasphemy against God in my opinion.
The Jews never believed in hell or had any such concept. The word hell never actually appears in the bible.
The very notion of hell is non biblical- a lie created as a tool of Control through fear by corrupt church officials. A malicious distortion of scripture.
When the word hell appears in a bible it is a false translation of one of three words, none of which mean the same thing as the modern mainstream idea of hell.
The Jews did not believe in hell but instead Sheol- the land of the dead, which was not a place of torment and where all people go at death regardless of religion, belief or sin.
Many times when the word hell appears , especially in the Old Testament , the original word was Sheol , which has a totally different meaning.
Other times the original word was Hades, which again is not hell but an afterlife / land of the dead where all people go. Not just sinners or non believers, and it's not a place of eternal torture. Hades is simply the Greek equivalent of Sheol, an abode of the dead, not a torture pit for sinners.
The final word that is translated into hell is Gehenna, and although this is the closest to the idea of hell, it's fundamentally different . Gehenna is not a hell, but a purgatory, where evil people go to have their sins cleansed for a temporary period of time, not for eternity .
Therefore , Hell is a lie. It is not authentically biblical and not Jewish or Christian.
God is loving and merciful and compassionate and therefore there is no Hell, because loving and merciful God is absolutely incompatible with the existence of Hell.
Hell never appears in the bible and Sheol, Hades and Gehenna mean radically different things.
Hell was invented because existential terror makes people easier to control and therefore gives power to corrupt preists and clergy.
The Quran does mention hell, but that is because Islam was born after Christianity and after its corruption, so they inherited the lie of Hell from Christianity.
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Everything I post is fiction.
Edited by Moonshoe (09/01/16 10:32 AM)
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
Posts: 17,397
Loc: TURNT UP!
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Re: If you were judged and sent to heaven or hell which would it be? [Re: Moonshoe]
#23600527 - 09/01/16 09:47 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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We get it, you have a hard time resolving your lifestyle with your nonsensical array of beliefs. Case closed.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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I have read the bible in its entirety , every word, from cover to cover .
There are no verses prohibiting the use of mind altering drugs, nor do I agree with any interpretation of any verses to imply that even indirectly.
If God wanted to ban drug use it would be right there in black and white in the book of Leviticus with all the other laws and rules and prohibitions.
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Everything I post is fiction.
Edited by Moonshoe (09/01/16 10:32 AM)
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


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Re: If you were judged and sent to heaven or hell which would it be? [Re: Moonshoe]
#23600537 - 09/01/16 09:50 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Yes there are. Read the bible again, Moonshoe.
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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Quote:
something super extreme said: 1 Peter 5:8 states verbatim for faithful to "be sober-minded". Galatians 5:19-21 explicitly warns against "impurity" and drunkenness, among others. 2 Timothy 4:5 is another verbatim urging to sober-mindedness 1 Corinthians 6:12 says to avoid being enslaved to any earthly things.
Innumerable other verses allude to the sanctity of the moral body as a vessel of god and to sanctify it as such, to avoid impurity in its various forms, to resist temptations of all sorts, so on and so forth.
I mean have you even read a bible? You're not even trying anymore.
Sober minded sure, all that means is being able to think straight and not do stupid shit when high. Those old timey folks enjoyed their wine, which clearly doesn't lead to a sober mind, so the dose makes the poison, or however that goes.
If you eat to much red meat over your life you're causing damage to your temple, if you exercise to much you might damage your temple, there are a number of things which damage ones temple which aren't related to drugs, this is why any religions text is not meant to be taken literally, and he have to approach such topics with a logical mind.
Sure you can have several beers to relax, but if you start wanting to fuck your sister because of your epic levels of inebriation, then perhaps you should slow down killer.
Religious texts are just guideposts for some to use to help them navigate the troubles of the world. Sure some people don't need their stories to cope, some people do, who am I to judge.
Why would "god" think it was wrong for a couple that were going through a rough time to take MDMA and then work their issues out? God wouldn't be like that because that would be contradictory to what god is supposed to stand for, so not having a sober mind I think means being batshit crazy on hard drugs, where you can't make good decisions because you haven't slept in a week because you can't put the glass dick down, or you're so strung out on heroin that you beat your wife because of pain from withdrawals, or you neglect your kids, etc.
Edited by Lucis (09/01/16 09:58 AM)
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
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Re: If you were judged and sent to heaven or hell which would it be? [Re: Lucis]
#23600549 - 09/01/16 09:56 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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idk but you sure do spend most of your post time judging people.
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
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Last seen: 1 month, 29 days
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You must have replied to the wrong person, because I do not do that, in fact I pride myself on not being that way.
-------------------- ©️
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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If there are any verses prohibiting drug use, please quote them here.
However , there are none.
The only verses in the bible referring to drugs refer to alcohol , and many of those encourage or even command the consumption of alcohol.
There are verses warning against excessive drunkeness, but not prohibiting alcohol altogether.
The only exception was for Sampson who was commanded by God never to drink any alcohol, but that was a special oath for Sampson and never a commandment for humanity at large.
The reality is that of the verses dealing with mind altering substances they all refer to alcohol only, not to drugs or psychoactives generally, and even those do not forbid the consumption of alcohol and some encourage it, while warning against excessive drunkeness but not moderate consumption.
The only other references to a psychoactive is to myrrh, mentioned as an intoxicating incense and considered sacred , not sinful.
Not only does the bible never prohibit psychoactives there are times when it actually recommends them .
That God doesn't consider mind altering substances sinful should be clear from the fact that red wine is used in one of the holiest sacraments - communion, and Jesus directly commanded his followers to drink wine in remembrance of him.
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Everything I post is fiction.
Edited by Moonshoe (09/01/16 10:10 AM)
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


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Re: If you were judged and sent to heaven or hell which would it be? [Re: Moonshoe]
#23600593 - 09/01/16 10:06 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Keep telling yourself that. We all see you trying to reconcile your life of sin with your beliefs.
@fen: i replied precisely where I meant to reply.
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Lucis
Nutritional Yeast

Registered: 03/28/15
Posts: 15,622
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Quote:
something super extreme said:
@fen: i replied precisely where I meant to reply.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Reconciliation of my life of sin with my beliefs is not necessary. That we all live a life of sin without exception is a core teaching of Jesus and thus my life of sin is a fundamental part of my beliefs. Being a Christian does not mean living a sinless life. On the contrary, all Christians recognize and acknowledge that they live a life of sin.
However, my sins do not include my use of drugs, because using drugs is not a sin.
I have committed countless sins, but using drugs is not among them.
The reconciliation of my Sins with my beliefs comes from Salvation through Christ and through God's mercy and forgiveness, not through my knowledge of the bible.
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Everything I post is fiction.
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
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Re: If you were judged and sent to heaven or hell which would it be? [Re: Moonshoe]
#23600639 - 09/01/16 10:21 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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You'll find out real quick that mental gymnastics can't get you out of the hellfire.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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Re: If you were judged and sent to heaven or hell which would it be? [Re: Moonshoe]
#23600640 - 09/01/16 10:22 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I Should also point out that drugs are even more embraced by other religions.
For example, Cannabis use is considered Sacred by Hindus and many Hindu Yogis and Sadhus smoke cannabis constantly as sacred to Shiva .
There is also a tradition of cannabis use among some Buddhist traditions .
And the use of the psychedelic Soma was considered profoundly sacred and was fundamental to Vedic religion .
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Everything I post is fiction.
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Moonshoe
Blue Mantis


Registered: 05/28/04
Posts: 27,202
Loc: Iceland
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As I said, it is not mental gymnastics that I trust in but rather the mercy and grace of God, the Salvation offered through Christ, my confession and repentance of sin, prayer, submission to God, and my Baptism in the name of Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
That I am Saved is the clear promise of Jesus himself.
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Everything I post is fiction.
Edited by Moonshoe (09/01/16 10:42 AM)
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Alyssa
consecrated woman ✝️

Registered: 11/25/14
Posts: 1,517
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Re: If you were judged and sent to heaven or hell which would it be? [Re: Moonshoe]
#23600790 - 09/01/16 11:10 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Moonshoe said: As I said, it is not mental gymnastics that I trust in but rather the mercy and grace of God, the Salvation offered through Christ, my confession and repentance of sin, prayer, submission to God, and my Baptism in the name of Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
That I am Saved is the clear promise of Jesus himself.
Is that really what you believe? What are you doing on this forum full of godless hedonists? If you're convinced it's true, then whatever; I support freedom of belief but in my opinion the whole deal about all the physically impossible miracles including rising from the dead is crazy. I'm far from the only one who thinks this. I wouldn't have a problem with it if Christianity weren't misogynist (see for example 1 Peter 3:1 and 1 Corinthians 14:34-35).
-------------------- I'm Alyssa. I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart. I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.
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something super extreme
NIGGA YOU A FUCK NIGGA!


Registered: 10/29/12
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Re: If you were judged and sent to heaven or hell which would it be? [Re: Alyssa]
#23600796 - 09/01/16 11:13 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I support Christianity for encouraging women to retain their proper position in the social hierarchy.
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Alyssa
consecrated woman ✝️

Registered: 11/25/14
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Last seen: 6 days, 44 minutes
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Quote:
something super extreme said: I support Christianity for encouraging women to retain their proper position in the social hierarchy.
You are a troll.
-------------------- I'm Alyssa. I'm consecrated to the Immaculate Heart. I don't want her to have to look at adultery to save my privileged living cells, so please keep it PG-13.
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