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Offlineteedub
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Rye Jars Stalled?
    #23584046 - 08/27/16 03:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Hello all, long time reader...first time poster.

I inoculated 4 rye jars on Aug 8th using spore syringes. I seen first signs of mycellium on Aug 18th in two jars. I threw on of those jars out on the 22nd for having green mold growing.

Today is the 27th and the only jar that has signs only have one spot the size of a quarter and another spot smaller than a dime. The remaining 2 are showing no signs.

The temp is 73 average (house stays at around 72 at night and 74 during the day) and they get about 10 hours of sunlight as well. The jar lids have injector ports and gas exchange material over another hole.

I would think that after 3 weeks, there would be more growth...even from spore syringes.


So does anyone have any insight on why they are stalling and how to jump start them back up? Increasing heat to 78 or so? Usually when I go BRF, they are pretty much ready to dunk and roll by now.

Thanks in advance.


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Offlinevikingleif
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: teedub]
    #23584057 - 08/27/16 03:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

you might have bacteria and thats what causing the stalling.

post a pic and let the experienced growers have a look at it :smile:
always better with a pic :wink:


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: vikingleif]
    #23584083 - 08/27/16 04:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:picdidnthappen:


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Offlineteedub
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23584093 - 08/27/16 04:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)



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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: teedub] * 1
    #23584107 - 08/27/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Invisible, divisible, wasting your material,
Slow growth, no growth, yep that's bacterial.


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Offlineteedub
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: teedub]
    #23584112 - 08/27/16 04:10 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I had bought 4 jars that were pre-made and ready for inoculation form a vendor here and after 3 weeks and this is the only growth in the only jar.

I have since then prepared 8 other rye jars on my own (4 days ago) and I am waiting to see their progress.

But those are the only signs of life.


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InvisibleSuperFly
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: teedub]
    #23584118 - 08/27/16 04:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Is the syringe from a reliable sorce? Don't mention where it is from too please. This can also be a problem. If you do plan on doing more and more bulk look into agar. A second guess problem such as this would be a thing of the past.

Edit. just read it was reliable, for sure look into agar then.


Edited by SuperFly (08/27/16 04:12 PM)


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: SuperFly]
    #23584136 - 08/27/16 04:14 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The syringe being from a reliable source doesn't mean there won't be bacteria in it.  And even if it were a 100% clean syringe, grain can be bacterial on its own from improper sterilization, or a particularly high endospore load.  Or from the injector port.  Or from some manner of procedure with the syringe, like wiping the needle after flaming.  Tons of vectors.


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Offlineteedub
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: SuperFly]
    #23584151 - 08/27/16 04:17 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The syringes also came from a trusted supplier that I have used many times before.

That is why I am very confused as to why 2 jars completely flunked, one became contaminated, and one is stalled. I had alcohol sterilized everything, flame sterilized the syringe between jars, and put 1cc on one side of the jar and 1cc on the other side.

My plan was to buy new spore syringes, prepared jars from a trusted vendor here, inoculate those jars to get a jumpstart. While the prepared vendor jars are germinating, I was then going to prepare my own rye jars for G2G for my monotubs.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: teedub]
    #23584157 - 08/27/16 04:17 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Alcohol doesn't sterilize anything.  That could be an issue depending on what you mean.  If you buy pre-sterilized grain you're just going to keep having bacteria issues.  Grain is never truly sterile unless you PC it for like a day or 2 straight, at which point it's mush.


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InvisibleSuperFly
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23584165 - 08/27/16 04:18 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Just trying to help and narrow down the problem. While a reliable spore vendor can still have bacteria contamination, it is less of a chance
Quote:

Inocuole said:
The syringe being from a reliable source doesn't mean there won't be bacteria in it.  And even if it were a 100% clean syringe, grain can be bacterial on its own from improper sterilization, or a particularly high endospore load.  Or from the injector port.  Or from some manner of procedure with the syringe, like wiping the needle after flaming.  Tons of vectors.




Just trying to help and narrow down the problem. While a reliable spore vendor can still have bacteria contamination or mold, the % of this happening is a lot less.


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Offlineteedub
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23584169 - 08/27/16 04:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I alcohol swabbed the injection port and syringes prior to flame and inoculation.


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InvisibleInocuole
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: SuperFly]
    #23584176 - 08/27/16 04:20 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

For the purpose of shooting spores onto grain directly, there is no such thing as a reliable vendor.  Most vendor syringes work fine with PF cakes, and that's what syringes are made for basically.  When you start fucking with grains it's time to actually get a clean culture to inoculate with.


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InvisibleSuperFly
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: SuperFly]
    #23584197 - 08/27/16 04:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

SuperFly said:
for sure look into agar then.




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Offlineteedub
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23584205 - 08/27/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
For the purpose of shooting spores onto grain directly, there is no such thing as a reliable vendor.  Most vendor syringes work fine with PF cakes, and that's what syringes are made for basically.  When you start fucking with grains it's time to actually get a clean culture to inoculate with.




Well I am aware of that but it is kind of hard to get a clean culture started from nothing when I have no resources at hand.

I guess I could have BRFd, fruited, then started agar but that would take a hell of a lot longer than doing rye. Hence why I assumed that buying a syringe from a vendor and prepared jars ready for inoculation would be faster. Apparently not.

I guess the many people here on this forum that have done spore syringes to rye jars are just miracles. I would think that my chances would have been on the high percentile considering. Hindsight says not.

But by all means....if you would like to send me some clean cultures, I would appreciate that.


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: teedub]
    #23584228 - 08/27/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

pre made jars + spore syringe = even worse odds though


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Offlineteedub
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: bodhisatta]
    #23584252 - 08/27/16 04:36 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Trusted Cultivator said:
pre made jars  spore syringe = even worse odds though




With their high ratings here...I assumed incorrectly that it would have been faster and more reliable until I could get my own set up started.

Since then, I have inoculated 8 other jars that I prepared myself with 4 other types of mushrooms so I will soon see if it was just that one syringe or the vendors jars.


So is it everyone's consensus according to the information given and the pictures that it is a bacterial issue from either the jars or the syringe?

No one has any ideas on how to get the jar with the current mycelium to speed up or does the rhizo look too funky and just go ahead and abort?


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: teedub]
    #23584270 - 08/27/16 04:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

If you asked how the actual users felt you'd see that nobody would give them high ratings.  They don't have high ratings here.  They have high ratings on their site where they can control the ratings.


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InvisibleTuhdoww
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23584279 - 08/27/16 04:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
Invisible, divisible, wasting your material,
Slow growth, no growth, yep that's bacterial.



  :excuseme:


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Offlineteedub
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23584301 - 08/27/16 04:50 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

That is very true. I have full faith in the syringes though because I have been using the same place for about 10 years here and there when I get a grow going.

This was my first try with the vendor who does the jars but with the reviews he received here from so many people, I had no reason to question his quality.

So many things can go wrong on a grow, which is why I went with these vendors...to hopefully minimize the chances of myself fucking something up.

As I have stated, I will see how my personally prepared jars do and compare. I may just scrap the entire project and start from scratch and try to do syringe to agar or BRF but then I would be even more behind on my grow schedule by months. But that is the way things happen sometimes.


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InvisibleTuhdoww
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: teedub]
    #23584328 - 08/27/16 04:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

10 years and you're buying syringes and doing brf the whole time?


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Offlineteedub
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: Tuhdoww]
    #23584338 - 08/27/16 05:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I never did a big grow or needed to. Just a small grow here and there and BRF in a shotgun worked fine for what all I needed over the years. Never did bulk and never did commercial so that is why. When ever I would get a wild hair and wanted a small grow, I would simply order a syringe and grow what I wanted.


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: teedub]
    #23584363 - 08/27/16 05:06 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Okay. That makes sense. Taking the step to agar isn't bad but if your just growing for one trip then fuck it.


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Offlineteedub
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: Tuhdoww]
    #23584391 - 08/27/16 05:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Well we decided that if we were going to do another grow that we would do a large bulk to get everything out of the way for a while then make liquid cultures for long term storage and a few prints just in case but never really considered agar since we don't do large amounts or do it often enough to keep up with it. We have a large fall reunion/get together so we wanted to do one large grow and that sums it up. lol


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: teedub]
    #23584504 - 08/27/16 05:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

So I get it that everyone wants to lecture me on doing agar but that does not help my current situation. I will go agar if I decide to do another grow but does anyone have any recommendations on how to get the rye jars to germinate faster so I can see if they are in fact toss-able here at the moment?

Is 72/74 too cool for them? They are cold to the touch but I am afraid that adding heat would dry the jars out too much. It is a humid 90 degrees here every day so real temp is like 100+ normally outside so maybe stick them in a room and crack the window open so some of the outside heat slips in instead of using a space heater?

Thoughts? Ideas?


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: teedub]
    #23584591 - 08/27/16 05:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

No, there are no recommendations for how to get rye jars to colonize faster after they're already potentially infected. :shrug:

If there were a trick to get them to stop doing what they're doing, we would be real assholes to wait until you asked about it before telling you.


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Offlineteedub
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23584657 - 08/27/16 06:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I just wasn't sure if the slow growth could be the result of cool air temps and not necessarily bacterial interference and if there were other factors that could be changed to verify. I would hate to scrap an entire start up if there was another explanation that could be resolved such as temp or issues with gas exchange.

I will toss out the other 2 jars with no growth, increase the heat on the other 8 that I had prepared myself, and separate the one questionable jar and see what happens exactly.

I appreciate everyone's input and insight.


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OfflineGreg
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: teedub]
    #23584730 - 08/27/16 06:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

teedub said:
increase the heat on the other 8 that I had prepared myself




If the ambient temps are hovering around 70 already, there is no need to increase the heat.
All you're going to do is favor the growth of bacteria.

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/17564353#17564353

Quote:

PussyFart said:
What are your ambient temps? USually incubation is not needed...my jars are colonizing just fine at 65F, mid 70s are optimal




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Offlineteedub
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: Greg]
    #23584794 - 08/27/16 07:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Thanks Greg! Good link.


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: teedub]
    #23584934 - 08/27/16 08:11 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I know I'm hella new but why not just put those jars on a shelf and see what happens? I bought 10 PDA Petri dishes (pre made) and threw some spores on 2 of them in a sab about 4 days ago for shits and giggles. I have about a quarter size myc growth on both. I plan on making some wedges and tossing them in some wbs jars. It really didn't take long at all. Maybe that can help with your time dilemma? The Petri dishes weren't much and I paid 3$ for next day delivery because it's hot as hell where I'm at.


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23585843 - 08/28/16 04:24 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PortabellaFella 1 said:
I know I'm hella new but why not just put those jars on a shelf and see what happens? I bought 10 PDA Petri dishes (pre made) and threw some spores on 2 of them in a sab about 4 days ago for shits and giggles. I have about a quarter size myc growth on both. I plan on making some wedges and tossing them in some wbs jars. It really didn't take long at all. Maybe that can help with your time dilemma? The Petri dishes weren't much and I paid 3$ for next day delivery because it's hot as hell where I'm at.




thank you sir you just made me so much more lazy by telling me that there are pre poured Petri dishes :P

edit: nevermind im sad my country prevents me from being lazy... cant get that here! :P


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Edited by vikingleif (08/28/16 06:16 AM)


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: vikingleif]
    #23586200 - 08/28/16 09:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Damn, sorry bud. They don't allow potato sugar gelatin and plastic? That really does suck.


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23586206 - 08/28/16 09:01 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

It's probably more of a shipping cost issue.  You can always do no-pour agar if you don't like pouring it.  Still have to mix it, but it's cheaper than buying premade plates.


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Offlineteedub
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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23586615 - 08/28/16 11:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Anyone have links to their favorite sources of agar, dishes, premade, mixes, ect?

If I am gonna try it...might as well do it now and with y'alls recommendations.


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23586657 - 08/28/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I assume mixing should be done in a sab?


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23586669 - 08/28/16 11:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Inocuole said:
It's probably more of a shipping cost issue.  You can always do no-pour agar if you don't like pouring it.  Still have to mix it, but it's cheaper than buying pre made plates.




yes the price got ridiculous if i should ship that from the states hehe :P
but i think i found something else. i asked a laboratory in my town that does checks for people that send in their plates. and they are willing to sell me some flasks of agar malt extract MEA if im not mistaken :P

so all i need to do is heat up the flask 500ml and pour it into the dishes :laugh:
and bonus i go it extremely cheap without shipping costs haha :P


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23586800 - 08/28/16 12:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PortabellaFella 1 said:
I assume mixing should be done in a sab?




Do what now?  Mixing?  Only mixing I know of occurs before sterilization.


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: teedub]
    #23586969 - 08/28/16 01:28 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

teedub said:
Anyone have links to their favorite sources of agar, dishes, premade, mixes, ect?

If I am gonna try it...might as well do it now and with y'alls recommendations.





https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/22721954/vc/1#22721954


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: Inocuole]
    #23587552 - 08/28/16 04:46 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Gotcha, I've never made or mixed my own.


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Re: Rye Jars Stalled? [Re: PortabellaFella 1]
    #23608663 - 09/03/16 04:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

http://


Here are the three jars. I went to dump them and noticed a few myc balls so I just gave them a little shake and stashed them off on their own and this is their progress so far. Still remarkably slow as this is almost a months growth since inoculation but they look healthy otherwise.


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