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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Official grafting stock maintenance and technique thread!
    #23583181 - 08/27/16 11:08 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

What's up everybody!

So I thought it would be a good idea to have a thread tailored specifically
to maintaining grafting stock and where everyone can discuss and expand
on their individual grafting techniques!

This thread will not be limited to Pereskiopsis! All grafting stock and
techniques for their preparation are welcome!

I'll start with my community Pereskiopsis pot and how I recently started
maintaining it!

I recently moved into a new house. My plants used to be in full sun on
my apartment balcony, but now they sit under a patio awning in partial
shade/full sun in the afternoon.

Here in south Texas it has been raining quite a lot and the humidity has
been pretty high so I left my Peres outside to enjoy the weather haha.

(Ignore my foot you foot fetish weirdos:lol:)

Now, since they have been exposed to these conditions, my leaves have
enlarged 10 fold. Here is a picture of 1 Pereskiopsis stalk with both
leaf types


Here is a picture of the lower section leaves compared to a U.S. Quarter


And a leaf from the upper section compared to the same Quarter


Big difference, eh? I'll be cutting, rooting, and grafting to every
stalk in the bin since they are all like this and just perfect right now. Each pere is well over a foot tall too!

I'll update this with some of my general grafting techniques, I'm still
a beginner, though, so I'm hoping some of you will post your techniques
so I can get some ispiration :yesnod:


--------------------


Edited by natedawgnow (08/27/16 01:43 PM)


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Official Pereskiopsis maintenance and grafting technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23583332 - 08/27/16 12:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Speaking of which, i have to regraft my alberto-vojtechii babies so i xan revive that peres stock i got from modernshaman. I have several but they are all lost now. They are out there in my backyard somewhere.


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Official Pereskiopsis maintenance and grafting technique thread! [Re: ferrel_human]
    #23583523 - 08/27/16 01:24 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Found them.:awebig:


I knew i had them.


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Official Pereskiopsis maintenance and grafting technique thread! [Re: ferrel_human]
    #23583531 - 08/27/16 01:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Do it and feel free to document whatever you like right here!

Have you guys had as much rain as i have recently down there?


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: Official Pereskiopsis maintenance and grafting technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow] * 1
    #23583568 - 08/27/16 01:37 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Cool thread, I have found my peres like to be treated like regular plants other than the fact they love sun and heat. They are in a good commercial potting mix consisting of peat, bark fines, perlite and time release nutes. Watered when soil is dry 2" down.


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Official Pereskiopsis maintenance and grafting technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23583578 - 08/27/16 01:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Damn that spine is rowdy! Ouch

That tall Pere tree is just :Awemazing:


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23583586 - 08/27/16 01:44 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Changed the title to be more encompassing!


--------------------


Edited by natedawgnow (08/27/16 01:44 PM)


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Invisiblepenker
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23585526 - 08/27/16 11:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I really want to know how to stop peres stock from puping, before the scion starts to grow.:whiteflag:


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: penker]
    #23585535 - 08/27/16 11:26 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

penker said:
I really want to know how to stop peres stock from puping, before the scion starts to grow.:whiteflag:




No way to do it. Ime, the scion only grows after youve cut the offsets a few times. Then it doesnt pup and theows all energy to the scion.


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


Edited by ferrel_human (08/27/16 11:34 PM)


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: ferrel_human]
    #23585555 - 08/27/16 11:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I have noticed, with a couple of my grafts, that the better the connection
between the stalk and the scion, the less it pups, though it still pups a
little.

I have a couple loph grafts that were growing strong and have now stalled
out of no where. Should I regraft them or is regular stalling and growing
periods normal?


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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: penker]
    #23585710 - 08/28/16 01:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

penker said:
I really want to know how to stop peres stock from puping, before the scion starts to grow.:whiteflag:




Areole removal.
On the fastest peres loph graft I have yet done, I cut away every areole from the stock so it couldn't attempt to pup :smile:


--------------------
●  EG Rules and Guidelines ● 


|| Lophophora Growers Unite! || Trichocereus Growers Unite! || Stone Eaters - A Soil Revolution ||


You must gather your party before venturing forth.


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Invisiblepenker
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #23585916 - 08/28/16 06:27 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mostly_Harmless said:
Quote:

penker said:
I really want to know how to stop peres stock from puping, before the scion starts to grow.:whiteflag:




Areole removal.
On the fastest peres loph graft I have yet done, I cut away every areole from the stock so it couldn't attempt to pup :smile:



but that would remove the leaves as well :sad:
Another question, somewhat related, what percentage of accelerated growth do you think is caused by superior root system vs more photosynthesis?


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InvisibleMostly_HarmlessM
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: penker]
    #23585936 - 08/28/16 06:41 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Losing the leaves didn't seem to slow speed. Out of a tray of 24 grafts, the one with removed areoles also turned out to be the fastest grower, reaching flowering age in 4 months from seed, weeks ahead of any others that had their stock pups removed as I spotted them.

Of course correlation isn't causation and I've not repeated any tests, rarely grafting nowadays.


--------------------
●  EG Rules and Guidelines ● 


|| Lophophora Growers Unite! || Trichocereus Growers Unite! || Stone Eaters - A Soil Revolution ||


You must gather your party before venturing forth.


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OfflineLSoares
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #23586411 - 08/28/16 10:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

The stock pups because the scion is not yet producing the auxins that will inhibit the sprouting of the areoles. Once the scion gets growing strongly, it will become the dominnt apex, as if it were the growing tip of the stock. Until then, your best solution is to keep cutting the side shoots and use them to increase the number of stocks you have available.

As natedawgnow noticed, the better the initial connection, the faster the scion will become dominant.


--------------------
Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal
Cactus grower particularly fond of north american miniatures.
http://jardineiroazelha.blogspot.pt/

Sowing cacti - my way!
Random pictures of my collection.
Photographing cacti, Z's way.


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: LSoares]
    #23586646 - 08/28/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

LSoares said:
The stock pups because the scion is not yet producing the auxins that will inhibit the sprouting of the areoles. Once the scion gets growing strongly, it will become the dominnt apex, as if it were the growing tip of the stock. Until then, your best solution is to keep cutting the side shoots and use them to increase the number of stocks you have available.

As natedawgnow noticed, the better the initial connection, the faster the scion will become dominant.




:havesomescience:


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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OfflineSolipsis
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: ferrel_human]
    #23587717 - 08/28/16 05:34 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I have a Caesp Loph on a Selenicereus Grandiflorus that is apparently not dominant yet, how long can it take for that to happen - roughly speaking?

Could size matter :wink: since bigger scions might produce more auxins?


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Invisibleferrel_human
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: Solipsis]
    #23588039 - 08/28/16 07:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I notice the biggerthe stock the bigger the plant. Is that what tou refer to? Ive had a wiffle ballbsized loph on my fast growing trich. Extrme.


--------------------
Nature is my church and walking through it is gospel. It tells no lies and reveals all to those who look, and listen, closely.
-Karode


Looking for Mimosa tenuiflora seeds. Buttons for trade


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OfflineLSoares
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: Solipsis]
    #23588975 - 08/29/16 02:05 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Solipsis said:
I have a Caesp Loph on a Selenicereus Grandiflorus that is apparently not dominant yet, how long can it take for that to happen - roughly speaking?

Could size matter :wink: since bigger scions might produce more auxins?



"Time to-" is relative because it is a function of both scion size (=auxin production) and stock vigour (=more dormant buds to inhibit).

In short, yeah, size matters (as we all know :cool:). It's just not clear exactly how.


--------------------
Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal
Cactus grower particularly fond of north american miniatures.
http://jardineiroazelha.blogspot.pt/

Sowing cacti - my way!
Random pictures of my collection.
Photographing cacti, Z's way.


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Offlinesaythatagain
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: LSoares]
    #23590768 - 08/29/16 04:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Any tips for grafting on opuntia? I have been grafting tubercles from my mammillarias onto them, they haven't shown any growth yet, though.


--------------------
Trade List


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OfflineLSoares
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: saythatagain]
    #23592281 - 08/30/16 02:16 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

saythatagain said:
Any tips for grafting on opuntia? I have been grafting tubercles from my mammillarias onto them, they haven't shown any growth yet, though.



I tried with O. ficus-indica and another species I can't recall right now. Didn't work so well. I made a grow log, help yourself. :wink:


--------------------
Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal
Cactus grower particularly fond of north american miniatures.
http://jardineiroazelha.blogspot.pt/

Sowing cacti - my way!
Random pictures of my collection.
Photographing cacti, Z's way.


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Offlinesaythatagain
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: LSoares]
    #23595221 - 08/30/16 08:12 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I've been checking out your threads and I'm curious, where do you typically get your seeds? I'm not asking for a specific source but how you get them in general. I've been buying seeds on EBay, but I want to find somewhere new because I typically get very low viability and it can me expensive.


--------------------
Trade List


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OfflineLSoares
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: saythatagain]
    #23596243 - 08/31/16 02:09 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

One of the greatest and best seed sellers in the whole world is in the US, you should have no problem getting whatever you want from him (if he's not swamped with orders from China, that is). However, seed from any commercial source may be unreliable germination wise (you never know when was it collected, how was it stored, etc.). Your best bet is to get seed from other growers. :wink:


--------------------
Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal
Cactus grower particularly fond of north american miniatures.
http://jardineiroazelha.blogspot.pt/

Sowing cacti - my way!
Random pictures of my collection.
Photographing cacti, Z's way.


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OfflineSpanishfly
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: LSoares]
    #23596929 - 08/31/16 09:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LSoares said:
One of the greatest and best seed sellers in the whole world is in the US, you should have no problem getting whatever you want from him (if he's not swamped with orders from China, that is). However, seed from any commercial source may be unreliable germination wise (you never know when was it collected, how was it stored, etc.). Your best bet is to get seed from other growers. :wink:




Totally agree - seed from my own plants or seed that I have swapped with other growers always seems to be a lot more viable than commercially supplied seeds.


--------------------
I am currently BANNED from using Private Messages - so can anyone who wants to contact me do it via my Journal thread.  Link is https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23831115

Maybe some mod or whatever might think this has now been long enough.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: Spanishfly] * 1
    #23705519 - 10/04/16 12:05 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

What's up everyone!

So I did some grafting today and I went ahead and documented it because
I tried out some new techniques that I have never done and I thought you
guys might like to see!

So since my main hobby is mush cult (cacti and plants a close second) I
have a lot of parafilm lying around. I know grafting parafilm is used
for grafting cacti, but mine is laboratory film grade "m" meant for lab
use. After some research, I discovered that there is little to no actual
applicable difference in grafting parafilm and lab grade film.

So this is going to be a tutorial/documentation on how to use parafilm for
seedling grafting! I also tried grafting the leftover base from each
seedling to it's own pereskiopsis for the first time, so we'll see how
that turns out as well! I take no credit for this tek, I am just sharing it!

Without further ado...

Let's start off with what parafilm is and how to use it in this tek.
Parafilm is a wax film that sticks readily to itself when stretched thin.

Here is a picture of 1 square of parafilm

Remember, mine is lab grade, but either will do just fine

So, I take one of those squares and cut it in half either direction


Now you take the piece in both hands and steadily stretch it till it
is stretched almost as thin as you can get it, it takes practice, but
after a couple tries you'll be able to feel when to stop stretching.
This is what you should end up with

As you can see, roughly 4 times the original length.

I then proceed to cut the stretched out piece into 4 equal length pieces


Ok now put those off to the side to be used later. Note that each graft
uses two of these pieces so make as many as you need.


Here are my pereskiopsis cutting, fully rooted in coir, bat guano, and perlite.


My seedlings, I am only grafting 4 out of the 8, but I am also grafting
each one of the 4 seedlings roots as well, so 8 total plus another that I did prior.
sorry for the terrible quality


Ok now take a pere cutting and cut the top off, then trim the
leaves down so you have about an inch or so of bare pere stem

Remove the hair and glochids if they are present

Take one of your parafilm pieces and fold it in half like so


Now wrap this piece around the pere stem about 5mm below the top of the stem. Pinch the parafilm so it makes a little flag on top of the pere


Now wrap the parafilm around the stem neatly, forming a parafilm collar

This piece of parafilm is there so the other piece that goes on top of
the seedling has something to stick to.

Now cut a small slice above the parafilm and leave it in place so the
sappy goo doesn't dry up. When you go to place your graft on top, remove
this piece and quickly lay the scion on top. I like to save a leaf and
break it in half, then use it's sap to re moisten the cut if necessary.
It really helps a lot actually.

Now this example was done with a seedling root grafted onto it's own
pereskiopsis, something I have yet to try with success so here it goes


As you can see, I have placed the nub off center on the pere stem,
now, take another piece of parafilm and grasp it with both hands, using
your thumb and ring finger, and index and middle fingers like so


Place the center of the parafilm over your graft. Steadily and with
equal pressure on all sides, pull the parafilm down over the graft
and then press the parafilm into the collar we made
before starting the graft.
It should look like this after pulling the parafilm over the graft


And like this after firmly securing it to the parafilm collar


Here is another of a seedling top grafted to a pere


Here is the whole lot

In a few days I'll check to see how well they have taken and peel the
parafilm off. I'll make sure to update this when I do!


--------------------


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OfflineLSoares
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23705640 - 10/04/16 01:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Nice write-up, Nate. :thumbup:


--------------------
Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal
Cactus grower particularly fond of north american miniatures.
http://jardineiroazelha.blogspot.pt/

Sowing cacti - my way!
Random pictures of my collection.
Photographing cacti, Z's way.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: LSoares]
    #23706045 - 10/04/16 08:56 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

:bashful:
Thanks man!


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Invisiblethe_r3dz
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23706244 - 10/04/16 09:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Very nice dude!
I just got 40 myrtillocactus seedlings in the mail,
by next year I should be totally set on grafting stock
I'm getting a 2kg box full of peres, eriocereus, trichocereus, and myrtle
for the cost of shipping :lmafo:
I'm stoked

I'm also getting a variegated pereskiopsis (also trichocereus)
as well as some pereskiopsis seeds!! Crazy exciting.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: the_r3dz]
    #23706371 - 10/04/16 10:48 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Dude for real tbat sounds like quite the haul!

When you say variegated pere, do you mean a trich to pere graft or an
actual variegated pere? Cause that would be pretty damn sweet.


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Invisiblethe_r3dz
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23706467 - 10/04/16 11:17 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It's an actual variegated pereskiopsis
I'm also getting a full yellow variegated trich along with it

and I'm working on a trade for a different clone of var peres

gonna spread the love don't even worry :wink:


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: the_r3dz]
    #23707256 - 10/04/16 03:31 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Awesome :dancer:

Took a few top cuts today and trayed them up


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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Invisiblethe_r3dz
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23707288 - 10/04/16 03:43 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

you seriously have the healthiest peres I've ever seen


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: the_r3dz]
    #23707312 - 10/04/16 03:52 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

For real dude they look great!

What are you gonna be grafting?


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23707387 - 10/04/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Appreciate it dudes, nice technique btw Nate:thumbup:
I have a few lophophora seedlings that are ready, a couple albino trich seedlings that will be grafted to some already rooted cuttings (not getting my hopes up) and going to do a couple impales on some small trich pups. I'm going to get the wife to take pics while I work so I can show how I've been doing it, so far 10 for 10 on the impales.


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23707909 - 10/04/16 07:42 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Dude please do! I've been wondering what the best way to do impales is


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23708014 - 10/04/16 08:21 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Some questions-
What are "impales"
and what does grafting the root end of a seedling ddo? never heard of this.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: saythatagain]
    #23708032 - 10/04/16 08:27 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

google impale grafting, it's awesome

grafting the root part makes a pup factory, they look weird but they work well.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: the_r3dz]
    #23708848 - 10/05/16 03:59 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I have never get root grafts to work, they just plump up after a few days and do nothing :sad:


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: penker]
    #23711015 - 10/05/16 07:07 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Fascinating...didn't know a cactus could reverse its plumbing like that. I've been wasting all my root halves...


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: saythatagain]
    #23711227 - 10/05/16 07:55 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

It has to have an areole to pup from


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: the_r3dz]
    #23711240 - 10/05/16 07:57 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I've attempted it once before but I don't think I had a good enough
connection. Actually, the graft is still alive and plump just not doing anything :shrug:

I should have done a regraft when I did these others, but I didn't think about it till now.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: the_r3dz]
    #23711577 - 10/05/16 09:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Just found you figured it out already.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: spaceman101]
    #23714152 - 10/06/16 07:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Alright, I did some impales today, took pics and explained the best I could. I'd like to see others give it a shot and give their input. Check it out
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23713475
Mostly, if you find it useful feel free to move it to EBG


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23714202 - 10/06/16 07:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I don't want to reply in that thread and ruin it's Glory but YOU ARE MY FUCKING HERO BRO :casket::splooge::youthemandawg:


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: spaceman101]
    #23714305 - 10/06/16 08:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Thanks homie, back at you, you've helped me more than you know:thumbup:


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23716051 - 10/07/16 11:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Dude awesome! Feel free to move it into this thread if you want! My idea
for this thread was for it to be a place to lay out all comprehensive
grafting techniques so they can all be found with pics in one place


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23716324 - 10/07/16 01:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

:super:
Quote:

NDStepp84 said:
Originally looked around trying to find info on the method when I had a stock die and the scion wasn't  big enough to root on its own in an attempt to save it. I started researching the method and couldn't find a whole lot of info, going off what I had found I gave it a shot on a main loph head and its 2 pups and they all took. I've been experimenting with impales with 100% success rate on 11 total grafts so far. Thought I'd show how I've been doing it, my results, pros and cons, and hopefully others will give it a shot and possibly find ways of improving.

It's not a replacement for flat grafts using small seedlings, one of the drawbacks is the scion has to be a certain size to use this method, but it can be another valuable tool in your cultivation toolbox.
Pros:
Higher success rate than flat grafts
-Ability to graft larger scions than would normally be able to with flat grafts
-Ability to save plants that may have some rot or stock is failing
-Fast way to propagate many plants from a single seedling ( by cutting a top section off an existing graft and impaling it, letting the original pup, cut off pups and repeat) I have produced several grafts from a single graft this way in a fairly short period of time.
-Dosen't take as steady a hand as flat grafts with small seedlings/easier and more forgiving IMO.
-If for some reason the graft dosen't take, if the scion has any size to it at all you can always just make a fresh cut and  re do it, but I haven't had one fail yet.

Cons:
-Scion has to be large enough to cut a cone shape hole in the diameter of the stock
-When degrafting you have to cut a little higher up making sure there is no stock inside the scion, although not really a bad con because it's just 1/4 inch more or so and leaving some scion with a couple areoles attached to the stock will probably make more pups to impale!


Let's get  to it, materials:

Grafting stock
Decent seedling, growing tip or small pup for scion
70% IPA
Hydrogen peroxide (I use half diluted with water)
Thin razor blade, I use the super thin double sided old school shaving refills from dollar store (1$ a pack)
Exacto knife with new sharp blade
Paper towels
Gloves
Spring Clothespins
Saran Wrap cut into squares usually around 3X3 or 4X4 (go ahead and cut squares before you begin and have them ready because you have to have it fast later)

Start with prepping your pereskiopsis and scion. Take pereskiopsis to be used, look where you are going to make your cut (I like for the grafting stock to be around 6" tall after cutting) and remove leaves by twisting around in a circle, around 2 1/2 inches down from where the cut will be (may want to give yourself a 1/2" or so extra in case you mess up cutting)
With a peice of paper towel soaked with peroxide rub up and down cleaning the area to be cut




Prep your scion, place on a paper towel and pour/spray it with peroxide, cut from roots with a blade cleaned with IPA soaked paper towel or already have it that was removed from a plant. With a clean peroxide soaked paper towel I rub it down, removing all spines (important)

Put on gloves, clean hands with IPA soaked paper towel and keep this towel handy, have another IPA soaked towel, wipe down blades and sit blades on towel.
If you want to be extra careful go ahead and make a super thin fresh cut on the scion and sit it on a clean paper towel cut side up


Cut pereskiopsis to desired length as you would with a flat graft, cut off any areoles that are close to the cut, then go around cutting at an angle

Quickly and carefully grab the scion and exacto, cutting the negative of the shape of the pereskiopsis into the scion slightly off center from the core and vascular ring

quickly place scion onto pereskiopsis and push down, grabbing the square of plastic wrap and placing it over the top, pulling it down and folding against the stock holding it in place with a clothespin. The wrap should be fairly tight to hold good down pressure just don't squish anything.

The scion should come at least far enough down on the pereskiopsis so you can't see any of the angled part (imaginary scion in red)
 

After the grafts are done I place them where they won't get bumped and don't get much/any light for a week to heal.


After a week take off the Clothespin and very carefully remove the plastic wrap (why removing the spines was important) by first pulling straight out on the bottom sides to un stick it from the scion then it should peel right off without pulling up on the scion. Go ahead and place it under lights, sun, whatever and wait for it to start growing. It may look a little shriveled at first depending on the size but will soon plump up and grow like crazy!

Some past graft results:
Scion and pups were removed from failing stock and regrafted




tip on trich graft cut off and impaled


Original stock pupped again, used pups in the pics for write up, turning one plant into 4 for today's grafts

Another small pup grafted and growing well from one of these pups

Graft grew new pups ready to be cut and grafted again


Noticed today that one of my favorite little lophs had bad deep rot, usually a death sentence

Cut away all the rot and was left with this



I'd like to see others give this a shot and post their results, hope this helps!




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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23717058 - 10/07/16 05:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Two impale grafts done ND style


Grafts stalled on their old stocks and never continued:shrug:

Thanks for the write up ND!


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23717239 - 10/07/16 06:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

:rockon: looks great!  Keep us updated:popcorn:

I usually cut the scion very slightly off from dead center, I'm wondering about if doing it dead center would make any difference:strokebeard: I'm guessing it will work just fine seems like one I did ended up being pretty much center, I've got a couple small pups I'll give it a shot soon.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23719500 - 10/08/16 01:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Cutting the scion/placing it off center usually works better for me as well, I think it's something about the vascular rings overlapping twice rather than just perfectly matching up, which is hard to do.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: trichlover]
    #23720857 - 10/08/16 10:21 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I cut my peres very sharp for impale grafts. No fixation required this way, but most of the cut surface will be exposed so stock should be well watered.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: penker]
    #23730253 - 10/12/16 05:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

What stock is the 2nd in terms of propagation speed? 1st place goes to pereskiopsis obviously. But it branches too often and is hard to handle, I am looking for a substitute.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: penker]
    #23730257 - 10/12/16 05:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Good question, would it be a colomor like blue myrtle or a fast trich? Dragon fruit is often used commercially


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23730818 - 10/12/16 10:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I'd say hylo but it's not very Hardy and doesn't last long
I know people who swear by opuntia ficus indica, seen some real big trichs on them before
Lots of multi grafts as well, 4 scions on one pad looks real cool


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: the_r3dz]
    #23730853 - 10/12/16 10:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I've never grafted to hylo, but have 2 variegate astro on hylo stock in my collection for 6 years now and are still going strong. I do keep in mind they might need a regraft sooner than other stocks, going by what I have read, but yet to experience it in my sample size of 2 :laugh:

I see it about as hardy as myrtles, specifics I don't know, it falls into the same category for me of not hardy enough to survive winter in an unheated greenhouse in my climate and needs to come inside.

Harrisia jusbertii is another nice stock giving not too much growth to keep buttons a nice shape.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
    #23732107 - 10/12/16 06:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Any of you all have experience with grafting really small stuff like Blossfeldia or Aztekium?


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: saythatagain]
    #23732175 - 10/12/16 06:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Modern Shaman I know does as I believe that's the majority of what he grows out.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: spaceman101]
    #23733050 - 10/13/16 02:30 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I have grafted a few Aztekium. Mostly to Pereskiopsis.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: LSoares]
    #23733736 - 10/13/16 10:57 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

How big were they? Did you succeed?


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: saythatagain]
    #23734845 - 10/13/16 05:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I have grafted seedlings about 1mm across (hit-and-miss, but possible) and pups (a lot easier). Once they take they're as easy as any other graft.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: LSoares]
    #23736130 - 10/14/16 05:48 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I tried one 0.5mm strombocactus graft, failed.
gonna wait till spring and they are bigger.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: penker]
    #23739650 - 10/15/16 10:21 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Here's one of the albino trich grafts after a week

Small grafts are a bitch, really put you to the test. So far one of 6 has failed, hopefully I end up with a couple to work with :fingerscrossed:


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23739823 - 10/15/16 11:48 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Try opuntia. Never had a scion dry up.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: saythatagain]
    #23753277 - 10/19/16 09:12 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Random, but all of my grafts are in 5-6" pots, transplanted one into a larger pot to see if growth speed picks up. It had quite the root mass and think it will definitely benefit. I may be putting all my grafts into larger pots if it makes a big difference.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23754415 - 10/20/16 10:13 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

So most of my grafts failed :sad:
They fell victim to some sort of rot and i think it's because i forgot
to wipe down the pere with sanitizer and since they came from outside they
were just dirty as hell :facepalm:

Bout to do a good sized sowing though so i'm not horrifically upset, just
bummed i lost all those seedlings. Eh.. live and learn.

I'll be sowing a loph seed mix, about 40 or 50 willis (10 of which are from my own plant's first fruit!), 25 or so bridgesii, 25 pachs, and a few
peru.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23755432 - 10/20/16 04:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Man that sucks, plant the shit out of some seed:thumbup:

7 foot tall pereskiopsis


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23755640 - 10/20/16 06:02 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

:jawdrop:


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: spaceman101]
    #23755898 - 10/20/16 07:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I recently had my first plant to suffer from rot, but I let it dry out some and it looks like it will pull through. It was a saguaro graft on peres. My sanitation measures were nonexistent so it shouldn't be hard to prevent with some peroxide.


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23756864 - 10/21/16 03:05 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

NDStepp84 said:
Man that sucks, plant the shit out of some seed:thumbup:

7 foot tall pereskiopsis




How long did it take to get that big?


--------------------
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: LSoares]
    #23757210 - 10/21/16 07:37 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

I'm guessing about 4 1/2-5 months, I'm suprised it never bent or leaned over.


--------------------

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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23757290 - 10/21/16 08:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

Very nice. It can get pretty tough and hard to cut through if left to mature more than a few weeks. Wild guess here, but you may have a bloomer for next season...


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Z. in sunny Lisbon, Portugal
Cactus grower particularly fond of north american miniatures.
http://jardineiroazelha.blogspot.pt/

Sowing cacti - my way!
Random pictures of my collection.
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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: LSoares]
    #23757305 - 10/21/16 08:32 AM (7 years, 3 months ago)

That would be very cool to see it flower, I hope I don't have to cut it but it's getting cold here and I'm in the process of moving all my plants into a 8-16 insulated shed, that thing takes up a lot of real estate and when you bump into it 2" long spines break off in you lol. I may just trim it back a bit, it would be more bushy next year with a major head start.


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"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23790966 - 11/01/16 10:55 AM (7 years, 2 months ago)

Update, all the impales took well are growing, even the rotted loph I did surgery on, impale saved one of my favorite plants. I just took a pic of one but all the trichs are growing, you can see the new spines


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"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23932012 - 12/16/16 10:26 AM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Whoohoo, finally tried my hand at this grafting thing, I have 2 questions, no relation:

3 out of seven are now growing after 2.5 weeks +/-.  Not bad since I was high as shit and it was my 1st time, though beginners luck also in play.  Now, are there possibilities of any of the other 4 suddenly taking off, or once should I throw in the towel?

Separately I picked up a 4-5 inch pup I would like to speed up growing.  When grafting with pedros, (I know this is possible, and recommended) are the chances of success fairly high, I am asking in the sense of a level of risk.  It would seem to me that it shouldn't be a problem grafting to a large established plant compared to grafting to a peres, but I only have 1 pup of the plant I want to try with, so trying to decide if it is worth the risk.   

Thanks.


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Invisiblepsi
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23933350 - 12/16/16 07:10 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Didn't see this thread until now, subscribing.


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: psi]
    #23933422 - 12/16/16 07:29 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Oh shit I forgot about this thread for a bit!

I actually have two survivors from the parafilm grafting session that I
was almost sure were goners. I'll be sowing a pretty big batch in the
next couple days so I'll hopefully have a little more to contribute to
this thread!


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23933430 - 12/16/16 07:32 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Hell yeah. My shit's growing slow under artificial, got a killer head start on some stock for spring and more seedlings than I can count, waiting for spring
:waitingpatiently:


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23933452 - 12/16/16 07:39 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

How did those albino grafts go?


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
    #23933467 - 12/16/16 07:42 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

They are growing but super super slow, one has tiny ribs and spines but I lost my loupe ATM so I can't take pics until it turns up:frown:  A coupe are stalled I believe, probably wait until it warms up and regraft.


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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OfflineNDStepp84
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23936558 - 12/17/16 09:13 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

Found it, the albino Bertha SS01x02


--------------------

"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do.
-Robert A. Heinlein 

:takingnotes: Links and teks:takingnotes:
ND's grow log and discussion
Plant thread


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Invisiblespaceman101
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
    #23936702 - 12/17/16 10:09 PM (7 years, 1 month ago)

OMG yours looks amazing Bro :bow2:


Mine are still tiny but yours looks better than the one I grew out last year :jawdrop:


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