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spaceman101
Friend to all



Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 11,726
Loc: In heaven bored as hell
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: the_r3dz]
#23711577 - 10/05/16 09:49 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Just found you figured it out already.
-------------------- ------------- Check out my Pollen Trade thread for spreading Good genetics far and wide Great Vendors thread where we can discuss "Non Shroomery" Vendors that sell good products worth checking into A few things I wanna get my hands on check it out and let me know if you have any of these Need help getting started growing mushrooms Here's The Noob Forum
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NDStepp84
Stellar nuclear waste


Registered: 04/23/15
Posts: 4,956
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: spaceman101]
#23714152 - 10/06/16 07:28 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Alright, I did some impales today, took pics and explained the best I could. I'd like to see others give it a shot and give their input. Check it out https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23713475 Mostly, if you find it useful feel free to move it to EBG
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"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -Robert A. Heinlein
Links and teks ND's grow log and discussion Plant thread
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spaceman101
Friend to all



Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 11,726
Loc: In heaven bored as hell
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
#23714202 - 10/06/16 07:38 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I don't want to reply in that thread and ruin it's Glory but YOU ARE MY FUCKING HERO BRO  
-------------------- ------------- Check out my Pollen Trade thread for spreading Good genetics far and wide Great Vendors thread where we can discuss "Non Shroomery" Vendors that sell good products worth checking into A few things I wanna get my hands on check it out and let me know if you have any of these Need help getting started growing mushrooms Here's The Noob Forum
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NDStepp84
Stellar nuclear waste


Registered: 04/23/15
Posts: 4,956
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: spaceman101]
#23714305 - 10/06/16 08:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Thanks homie, back at you, you've helped me more than you know
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"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -Robert A. Heinlein
Links and teks ND's grow log and discussion Plant thread
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
#23716051 - 10/07/16 11:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Dude awesome! Feel free to move it into this thread if you want! My idea for this thread was for it to be a place to lay out all comprehensive grafting techniques so they can all be found with pics in one place
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NDStepp84
Stellar nuclear waste


Registered: 04/23/15
Posts: 4,956
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23716324 - 10/07/16 01:05 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Quote:
NDStepp84 said: Originally looked around trying to find info on the method when I had a stock die and the scion wasn't big enough to root on its own in an attempt to save it. I started researching the method and couldn't find a whole lot of info, going off what I had found I gave it a shot on a main loph head and its 2 pups and they all took. I've been experimenting with impales with 100% success rate on 11 total grafts so far. Thought I'd show how I've been doing it, my results, pros and cons, and hopefully others will give it a shot and possibly find ways of improving.
It's not a replacement for flat grafts using small seedlings, one of the drawbacks is the scion has to be a certain size to use this method, but it can be another valuable tool in your cultivation toolbox. Pros: Higher success rate than flat grafts -Ability to graft larger scions than would normally be able to with flat grafts -Ability to save plants that may have some rot or stock is failing -Fast way to propagate many plants from a single seedling ( by cutting a top section off an existing graft and impaling it, letting the original pup, cut off pups and repeat) I have produced several grafts from a single graft this way in a fairly short period of time. -Dosen't take as steady a hand as flat grafts with small seedlings/easier and more forgiving IMO. -If for some reason the graft dosen't take, if the scion has any size to it at all you can always just make a fresh cut and re do it, but I haven't had one fail yet.
Cons: -Scion has to be large enough to cut a cone shape hole in the diameter of the stock -When degrafting you have to cut a little higher up making sure there is no stock inside the scion, although not really a bad con because it's just 1/4 inch more or so and leaving some scion with a couple areoles attached to the stock will probably make more pups to impale!
Let's get to it, materials:
 Grafting stock Decent seedling, growing tip or small pup for scion 70% IPA Hydrogen peroxide (I use half diluted with water) Thin razor blade, I use the super thin double sided old school shaving refills from dollar store (1$ a pack) Exacto knife with new sharp blade Paper towels Gloves Spring Clothespins Saran Wrap cut into squares usually around 3X3 or 4X4 (go ahead and cut squares before you begin and have them ready because you have to have it fast later)
Start with prepping your pereskiopsis and scion. Take pereskiopsis to be used, look where you are going to make your cut (I like for the grafting stock to be around 6" tall after cutting) and remove leaves by twisting around in a circle, around 2 1/2 inches down from where the cut will be (may want to give yourself a 1/2" or so extra in case you mess up cutting) With a peice of paper towel soaked with peroxide rub up and down cleaning the area to be cut

Prep your scion, place on a paper towel and pour/spray it with peroxide, cut from roots with a blade cleaned with IPA soaked paper towel or already have it that was removed from a plant. With a clean peroxide soaked paper towel I rub it down, removing all spines (important)
 Put on gloves, clean hands with IPA soaked paper towel and keep this towel handy, have another IPA soaked towel, wipe down blades and sit blades on towel. If you want to be extra careful go ahead and make a super thin fresh cut on the scion and sit it on a clean paper towel cut side up

Cut pereskiopsis to desired length as you would with a flat graft, cut off any areoles that are close to the cut, then go around cutting at an angle
 Quickly and carefully grab the scion and exacto, cutting the negative of the shape of the pereskiopsis into the scion slightly off center from the core and vascular ring
 quickly place scion onto pereskiopsis and push down, grabbing the square of plastic wrap and placing it over the top, pulling it down and folding against the stock holding it in place with a clothespin. The wrap should be fairly tight to hold good down pressure just don't squish anything.
The scion should come at least far enough down on the pereskiopsis so you can't see any of the angled part (imaginary scion in red)  
After the grafts are done I place them where they won't get bumped and don't get much/any light for a week to heal.
 
After a week take off the Clothespin and very carefully remove the plastic wrap (why removing the spines was important) by first pulling straight out on the bottom sides to un stick it from the scion then it should peel right off without pulling up on the scion. Go ahead and place it under lights, sun, whatever and wait for it to start growing. It may look a little shriveled at first depending on the size but will soon plump up and grow like crazy!
Some past graft results: Scion and pups were removed from failing stock and regrafted

  
tip on trich graft cut off and impaled

  Original stock pupped again, used pups in the pics for write up, turning one plant into 4 for today's grafts
Another small pup grafted and growing well from one of these pups
  Graft grew new pups ready to be cut and grafted again

Noticed today that one of my favorite little lophs had bad deep rot, usually a death sentence
 Cut away all the rot and was left with this


I'd like to see others give this a shot and post their results, hope this helps!
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"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -Robert A. Heinlein
Links and teks ND's grow log and discussion Plant thread
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natedawgnow
Rocky mountain hood rat



Registered: 02/09/15
Posts: 8,939
Loc: ation
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
#23717058 - 10/07/16 05:16 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Two impale grafts done ND style
 
Grafts stalled on their old stocks and never continued
Thanks for the write up ND!
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NDStepp84
Stellar nuclear waste


Registered: 04/23/15
Posts: 4,956
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: natedawgnow]
#23717239 - 10/07/16 06:18 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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looks great! Keep us updated
I usually cut the scion very slightly off from dead center, I'm wondering about if doing it dead center would make any difference I'm guessing it will work just fine seems like one I did ended up being pretty much center, I've got a couple small pups I'll give it a shot soon.
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"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -Robert A. Heinlein
Links and teks ND's grow log and discussion Plant thread
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trichlover
Wandering and Wondering



Registered: 09/19/16
Posts: 178
Last seen: 2 years, 23 days
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
#23719500 - 10/08/16 01:20 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Cutting the scion/placing it off center usually works better for me as well, I think it's something about the vascular rings overlapping twice rather than just perfectly matching up, which is hard to do.
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penker
Stranger


Registered: 06/11/16
Posts: 81
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: trichlover]
#23720857 - 10/08/16 10:21 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I cut my peres very sharp for impale grafts. No fixation required this way, but most of the cut surface will be exposed so stock should be well watered.
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penker
Stranger


Registered: 06/11/16
Posts: 81
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: penker]
#23730253 - 10/12/16 05:24 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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What stock is the 2nd in terms of propagation speed? 1st place goes to pereskiopsis obviously. But it branches too often and is hard to handle, I am looking for a substitute.
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NDStepp84
Stellar nuclear waste


Registered: 04/23/15
Posts: 4,956
Last seen: 1 month, 4 days
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: penker]
#23730257 - 10/12/16 05:34 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Good question, would it be a colomor like blue myrtle or a fast trich? Dragon fruit is often used commercially
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"I am free, no matter what rules surround me. If I find them tolerable, I tolerate them; if I find them too obnoxious, I break them. I am free because I know that I alone am morally responsible for everything I do. -Robert A. Heinlein
Links and teks ND's grow log and discussion Plant thread
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the_r3dz
Trich Propagator


Registered: 03/26/15
Posts: 5,709
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: NDStepp84]
#23730818 - 10/12/16 10:45 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I'd say hylo but it's not very Hardy and doesn't last long I know people who swear by opuntia ficus indica, seen some real big trichs on them before Lots of multi grafts as well, 4 scions on one pad looks real cool
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Mostly_Harmless
wyrd bið ful aræd



Registered: 05/12/09
Posts: 5,043
Loc: Perfidious Albion
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: the_r3dz]
#23730853 - 10/12/16 10:54 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I've never grafted to hylo, but have 2 variegate astro on hylo stock in my collection for 6 years now and are still going strong. I do keep in mind they might need a regraft sooner than other stocks, going by what I have read, but yet to experience it in my sample size of 2 
I see it about as hardy as myrtles, specifics I don't know, it falls into the same category for me of not hardy enough to survive winter in an unheated greenhouse in my climate and needs to come inside.
Harrisia jusbertii is another nice stock giving not too much growth to keep buttons a nice shape.
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saythatagain



Registered: 04/11/15
Posts: 980
Loc: Spaceship Earth
Last seen: 10 months, 3 days
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: Mostly_Harmless]
#23732107 - 10/12/16 06:23 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Any of you all have experience with grafting really small stuff like Blossfeldia or Aztekium?
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spaceman101
Friend to all



Registered: 01/18/13
Posts: 11,726
Loc: In heaven bored as hell
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: saythatagain]
#23732175 - 10/12/16 06:54 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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Modern Shaman I know does as I believe that's the majority of what he grows out.
-------------------- ------------- Check out my Pollen Trade thread for spreading Good genetics far and wide Great Vendors thread where we can discuss "Non Shroomery" Vendors that sell good products worth checking into A few things I wanna get my hands on check it out and let me know if you have any of these Need help getting started growing mushrooms Here's The Noob Forum
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LSoares
Farmer



Registered: 10/09/13
Posts: 3,209
Loc: Portugal
Last seen: 4 years, 2 months
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: spaceman101]
#23733050 - 10/13/16 02:30 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have grafted a few Aztekium. Mostly to Pereskiopsis.
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saythatagain



Registered: 04/11/15
Posts: 980
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: LSoares]
#23733736 - 10/13/16 10:57 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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How big were they? Did you succeed?
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LSoares
Farmer



Registered: 10/09/13
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: saythatagain]
#23734845 - 10/13/16 05:34 PM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I have grafted seedlings about 1mm across (hit-and-miss, but possible) and pups (a lot easier). Once they take they're as easy as any other graft.
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penker
Stranger


Registered: 06/11/16
Posts: 81
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Re: Official grafting stockmaintenance and technique thread! [Re: LSoares]
#23736130 - 10/14/16 05:48 AM (7 years, 3 months ago) |
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I tried one 0.5mm strombocactus graft, failed. gonna wait till spring and they are bigger.
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