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OfflineCrystal G
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Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini, and the burkini ban?
    #23582587 - 08/27/16 06:26 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

France has banned the niqab and burkini, and police have even instructed women wearing the burkinis to undress and remove what they are wearing in public. What are your thoughts on this? Is this good, or an infringement upon religious freedoms?

I personally have two separate viewpoints on this. First, I believe that the burkini is indeed provocative and controversial, that is in fact, what it is intended to be.

Because any Muslim woman could simply wear a full-length wetsuit and a swimming cap, and that alone would be sufficient enough to follow dress code under Islamic law. But instead, people who buy these burkinis want to make a statement by showing off their religion to everybody--it is actually intended to be a provocative statement, not as innocuous as it is supposedly made out to be.

But on the other hand, terrorist activities are almost always carried out by men. So it irks me the wrong way, when it is women who end up penalized and oppressed because of these transgressions.

So... is it religious freedom, or is it France's right to play morality police?

Here is a video of the police forcing a woman to undress after she is caught wearing a hijab on the beach:



Edited by Crystal G (08/27/16 06:55 AM)


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: Crystal G] * 1
    #23582600 - 08/27/16 06:45 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Who are WE to tell these women to expose their bodies or go away? That is the most sexist thing in the world! In the 1930s in the west our forefathers bathed equally dressed up.

Its a religious thing, so?

Are nuns not allowed on the beach too?






Freedom means that you can wear your culturally prescribed clothes without the law forbidding you to do that.


There is a parallel between police forcing Muslimas to disrobe nowadays and the SA harrassing Orthodox Jews in the 1930s.

Its not right. Its a sign that we are moving towards ethnic cleansing.

Police forcing women to disrobe. Laws to prevent people to wear certain clothes on the beach.


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Edited by Asante (08/27/16 06:49 AM)


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Offlinekoods
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: Asante] * 3
    #23582607 - 08/27/16 06:52 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Those cops in France were no better than the guys that go around in Muslim areas and tell women to wear a burka.


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23582612 - 08/27/16 06:54 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

People should be free to express themselves with whatever clothing they want, whether being naked or wearing plate mail.  Maybe they shouldn't be letting in so many refugees/migrants if they don't want their country to become more Islamic, maybe stop allowing foreign donations to fund mosques.  Maybe they should do a better job integrating their country if they are going to continue allowing Muslims in.  The burkini is a non-issue, it's a distraction from a much more serious issue of allowing millions of unvetted migrants into the EU with freedom of movement.  That's a problem, what those people want to wear to the beach is not.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: fapjack]
    #23582614 - 08/27/16 06:56 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fapjack said:
Maybe they should do a better job integrating their country if they are going to continue allowing Muslims in.




Couldn't it be argued that they are imposing cultural integration by enforcing such policies such as a burkini and burka ban?

(This is not what I really believe, I'm just postulating a hypothetical argument)


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Offlinefapjack
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23582642 - 08/27/16 07:19 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

It is imposing cultural integration, but at the same time it's limiting other's freedom of expression.  It would be no different than banning males from wearing women's clothing.  The only reason people support the ban is because it's coming from an extremely repressive culture known for dehumanizing their women.  You can't allow in hundreds of thousands of Muslim migrants and expect them to follow your cultural norms.  Forcing people to attend classes to learn French and about French culture seems like it would be a lot more proactive.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini, and the burkini ban? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23582676 - 08/27/16 07:51 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
France has banned the niqab and burkini, and police have even instructed women wearing the burkinis to undress and remove what they are wearing in public. What are your thoughts on this? Is this good, or an infringement upon religious freedoms?





they can protest it by not going to the beach


does france actually have religious freedom?


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: fapjack] * 1
    #23582688 - 08/27/16 07:56 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

fapjack said:
It is imposing cultural integration, but at the same time it's limiting other's freedom of expression.






dont apply the laws and rights of US citizens to the french, that's the mistake
everyone wants to make in this discussion, people defend islam's many odd practices
that would violate our laws in claiming it's a cultural difference to molest
children and marry a 9 year old, well wouldnt this 'burkini' ban be a cultural
difference or do we hold western nations to a different standard in which their
culture doesnt matter. wouldnt that be forced cultural integration as well, where
westerners are forced to accept these other cultures imposing their own beliefs


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #23582695 - 08/27/16 07:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Who are WE to tell these women to expose their bodies or go away?

Freedom means that you can wear your culturally prescribed clothes without the law forbidding you to do that.






once again, why are you assuming france is a free country


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23582698 - 08/27/16 08:01 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yet, here in America, many school teachers are banned from wearing cross necklaces, with no outrage from the lunatic left. Another fine example of them preferring Islam over Christianity


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23582703 - 08/27/16 08:02 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Who are WE to tell these women to expose their bodies or go away?

Freedom means that you can wear your culturally prescribed clothes without the law forbidding you to do that.






once again, why are you assuming france is a free country




Isn't it funny when the party who demands govt control every aspect of our lives, start getting outraged when they begin doing so? :lol:


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InvisibleCrazy_Horse
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini, and the burkini ban? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23582709 - 08/27/16 08:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I bet the Sports Illustrated Muslim Swimsuit issue is hot.


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OfflineCrystal G
I'm a teapot


Registered: 06/05/07
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: hostileuniverse] * 1
    #23582715 - 08/27/16 08:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
claiming it's a cultural difference to molest
children and marry a 9 year old




No it's not, pedophilia has a victim and is therefore not a victimless crime.

Quote:

hostileuniverse said:
Yet, here in America, many school teachers are banned from wearing cross necklaces, with no outrage from the lunatic left. Another fine example of them preferring Islam over Christianity




If teachers are banned from wearing crosses, then those same teachers wearing niqab or hijab would be banned too. All religious garb would.


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Invisiblemajicman30
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: Asante] * 1
    #23582717 - 08/27/16 08:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Who are WE to tell these women to expose their bodies or go away? That is the most sexist thing in the world! In the 1930s in the west our forefathers bathed equally dressed up.

Its a religious thing, so?

Are nuns not allowed on the beach too?






Freedom means that you can wear your culturally prescribed clothes without the law forbidding you to do that.


There is a parallel between police forcing Muslimas to disrobe nowadays and the SA harrassing Orthodox Jews in the 1930s.

Its not right. Its a sign that we are moving towards ethnic cleansing.

Police forcing women to disrobe. Laws to prevent people to wear certain clothes on the beach.



Exactly! Hit it right on the head Asante. I couldn't have said it or put it any better myself. I see them trying to steal our freedom in many ways and have noticed it a lot more lately. I'm praying for a big Turn Around & with Prayers & a little help from all willing others is possible. Peace & Love


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Invisiblenatedawgnow
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: majicman30]
    #23582753 - 08/27/16 08:32 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You can't look at the French and try to argue against their laws as if it
were the United States. In France, religious symbols are banned in a lot
of public places, especially schools. This means you can't wear crosses,
head scarfs, or any other religiously affiliated garb.

Is it wrong? Yes.
Is it wrong for the U.S. to try to impose their will on other countries? Yes.
Should they be allowed to wear whatever they want? Yes. Which is why there
is a lot of guff and controversy surrounding the decision right now.

The law does seem to be mainly focused on Islamic women and their practice
of hijab, so although it is supposed to be directed at all mainstream
religion, the majority of it falls on muslim women.


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InvisibleAsante
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23582758 - 08/27/16 08:36 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Who are WE to tell these women to expose their bodies or go away?

Freedom means that you can wear your culturally prescribed clothes without the law forbidding you to do that.






once again, why are you assuming france is a free country





Prisoner#1 I live nextdoor to France. Its a bit simple to assume only the US has freedom.

Liberte Egalite Fraternite

France is quite free.


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: Crystal G]
    #23582760 - 08/27/16 08:38 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
claiming it's a cultural difference to molest
children and marry a 9 year old




No it's not, pedophilia has a victim and is therefore not a victimless crime.




the laws need to define victimhood, if the age of consent in Philippines is 12 years
old, you and I may see it as a crime because we base it on the laws and morality we
are subjected to but in Philippines there's no crime and no victim just like in many
of those middle eastern countries it's not illegal to marry off your 9 year old
daughter and if the police in these countries overlook acts of pedophilia then
clearly there's a cultural difference where even the police dont see a victim

it still doesnt address whether france has religious freedom or not


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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: Asante]
    #23582774 - 08/27/16 08:44 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Asante said:
Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Who are WE to tell these women to expose their bodies or go away?

Freedom means that you can wear your culturally prescribed clothes without the law forbidding you to do that.






once again, why are you assuming france is a free country





Prisoner#1 I live nextdoor to France. Its a bit simple to assume only the US has freedom.

Liberte Egalite Fraternite

France is quite free.





slogans are nice but clearly dont mean shit, being someone's neighbor doesnt mean
you know what goes on in their house, clearly france isnt free, the citizens arent
allowed the means to revolt against their government if they chose to do so


Quote:

"No one may be questioned about his opinions, [and the] same [for] religious [opinions], provided that their manifestation does not trouble the public order established by the law."




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InvisiblePrisoner#1
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini? [Re: majicman30]
    #23582780 - 08/27/16 08:45 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

majicman30 said:
Quote:

Asante said:
Who are WE to tell these women to expose their bodies or go away? That is the most sexist thing in the world! In the 1930s in the west our forefathers bathed equally dressed up.

Its a religious thing, so?

Are nuns not allowed on the beach too?






Freedom means that you can wear your culturally prescribed clothes without the law forbidding you to do that.


There is a parallel between police forcing Muslimas to disrobe nowadays and the SA harrassing Orthodox Jews in the 1930s.

Its not right. Its a sign that we are moving towards ethnic cleansing.

Police forcing women to disrobe. Laws to prevent people to wear certain clothes on the beach.



Exactly! Hit it right on the head Asante. I couldn't have said it or put it any better myself. I see them trying to steal our freedom in many ways and have noticed it a lot more lately. I'm praying for a big Turn Around & with Prayers & a little help from all willing others is possible. Peace & Love





then Asante is wrong, france isnt free


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Invisibledeucedbi9
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Re: Your thoughts and opinions on the burkini, and the burkini ban? [Re: Crystal G] * 2
    #23582809 - 08/27/16 08:59 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I'd like to see muslim woman come out and as an act of solidarity with their 'ethnic french' contemporaries -who are, apparently, being harassed and sexually assaulted by their muslim menfolk- and, Burn their Burkas.

Continuing the tradition of wearing the burka in a secularist society reinforces the teaching that they've received from birth, namely that, uncovered woman are, to some varying extent, not as decent/modest as their muslim family members that cover up, and may well be what leads to many of them viewing woman dressed in western sytle clothing, as little more than whores, and therefore undeserving of respect.

Having police officers demand muslim woman remove clothing in a public areas seems  counterproductive...
and has recently been ruled against.
 

"30 French mayors have been urged to follow a court ruling which overturned a controversial burkini ban in a resort town."

Hope the mayors see sense.


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Something tells me I'd better activate my prayer capsule


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