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just_curious
Cultivator


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Salt and baking soda
#23580171 - 08/26/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well, I got a contam in my mono today and hit the search function. I stumbled upon multiple threads where other cultivators are talking about cutting their contam out and filling the hole in with either salt or baking soda. Apparently this is used in the edible and gourmet cultivating scene also. From the sounds of it, it only effects the bacteria's and contams, but not the mushrooms themselves. I'm just wondering, what if you added a small amount of salt or baking soda into either your grain soak or substrate of choice during your sub prep. What do you guys think. Would this be detrimental to the grow, or is there a possibility that it could help. The salt that these threads were talking about was just normal table salt. Thanks for reading.
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



Registered: 11/21/11
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Salt is detrimental as fuck as a substrate ingredient.
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just_curious
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Re: Salt and baking soda [Re: Inocuole]
#23580276 - 08/26/16 02:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Well that's what I kind of figured. I assumed that if it was harmful to bacteria and other contaminants, than it would be to the fungi itself, but from the stuff I just read, it didn't sound that way. I also don't mean like a main ingredient lol. I mean like adding a couple teaspoons worth to your 4.5 quarts of water for your CVG, or a couple teaspoons to your grains while they are soaking along with your gypsum (and coffee if you use it)
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GreenRabbit
Plutonium Pollinator



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All around bad idea.
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blackout


Registered: 07/16/00
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People have grown on tinned grains which had added salt. There is some discussion in this old thread
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/1734411#1734411
A Stamets book talked of adding salt to a open air LC using lots of spores and molasses to get a really quick growth and the salt held off bacteria.
I don't recall seeing any side by side tests of it, obviously there will a level where it is very detrimental, but I would not be too surprised if there is a low level that proved beneficial.
I wanted to know as I was thinking of sterilizing with bleach https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4323776
Or retreating grains with bleach so you could use plastics which cannot take heat. e.g. you could PC a full load of popcorn directly in the PC with no jars, both to hydrate and sterilize. Now strain it while hot and dump into a plastic container, then squirt in some bleach so any airbourne contams are killed off, a bleach & vinegar mixture is meant to be far more effective but dangerous. But the vinegar makes it more unstable. Then I would leave the container on a hot heat pad so the bleach degrades leaving behind salt.
At this years olympics a worker put hydrogen peroxide into a pool which had chlorine in it. This neutralised the chlorine and the pools turned green with algae.
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oontribe


Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 3,570
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Re: Salt and baking soda [Re: blackout]
#23583459 - 08/27/16 01:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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right now i am using table salt to fight a small infected area, got this recommendation from two TCs.
here is the thread:
https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23580673
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Inocuole
Scalpel of Evil's Bane



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Re: Salt and baking soda [Re: oontribe]
#23583604 - 08/27/16 01:49 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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That's not to fight it, that's to keep the spores from spreading.
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oontribe


Registered: 01/14/15
Posts: 3,570
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Re: Salt and baking soda [Re: Inocuole]
#23583646 - 08/27/16 02:00 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yea you cant make the myc take over, you just dont make the contam gets bigger, right? Does this happens by not letting the contam spread his spores? Or by slowing its growth and limiting it as much as you can?
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Inocuole
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Re: Salt and baking soda [Re: oontribe]
#23583653 - 08/27/16 02:01 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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It should stall it out yeah. I guess you could call that fighting it. I've never salt patched anything personally.
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oontribe


Registered: 01/14/15
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Re: Salt and baking soda [Re: Inocuole]
#23584141 - 08/27/16 04:15 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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same here this is the first time!
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



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Re: Salt and baking soda [Re: oontribe]
#23584250 - 08/27/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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One thing that pretty much every thread in this vein misses is that if adding salt/peroxide/bleach/banrot etc did alow you to manage to achieve a clean colonized substrate, there is a good chance that anything hindering contams is probably doing the mushrooms no favors.
This of course is likely to represent a decrease in yield. I judge the success of a cultivation attempt in the yield not the presence of a sporopcarp. Given the best yields are found in substrates will low or no CFU populations and given that the most contam resistant substrates are fully colonized ones, it only makes sense to work on keeping your grow a monoculture rather than these bandaid attempts.
Seriously who is out there looking to get a meh result? That is wrong thinking and it will catch up with you.
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mushboy
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Re: Salt and baking soda [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23584322 - 08/27/16 04:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said:
Seriously who is out there looking to get a meh result? That is wrong thinking and it will catch up with you.

might be the best thing ive ever read on this forum.
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spacechildo
proletarians rise up


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Re: Salt and baking soda [Re: mushboy]
#23584466 - 08/27/16 05:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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just_curious
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Re: Salt and baking soda [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23588022 - 08/28/16 07:03 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pastywhyte said: One thing that pretty much every thread in this vein misses is that if adding salt/peroxide/bleach/banrot etc did alow you to manage to achieve a clean colonized substrate, there is a good chance that anything hindering contams is probably doing the mushrooms no favors.
This of course is likely to represent a decrease in yield. I judge the success of a cultivation attempt in the yield not the presence of a sporopcarp. Given the best yields are found in substrates will low or no CFU populations and given that the most contam resistant substrates are fully colonized ones, it only makes sense to work on keeping your grow a monoculture rather than these bandaid attempts.
Seriously who is out there looking to get a meh result? That is wrong thinking and it will catch up with you.

Thanks for your input Pasty. I was thinking more along the lines of prevention rather than repair. Like, if you were able to add in a dash of salt to the soak water as a prevention measure rather than attempting to cut out contams, filling the woun with salt, and hoping for the best.
In many occasions you have given me advice on attempting to get larger yields on the first flush and better B.E, and not really worry about a subsequent flush...how do you do this? So my first flush is usually a nice, even, healthy Pinset with maturing happening close to the same time for all the fruits. This is typically a large amount of mushrooms. My second flush however, is usually far less fruits, maybe about 20 or so, but at typically HUGE and equal the same amount of weight as the first flush that contained more than 100? What are you doing so different?
I took a clone from some very promising looking fruits, put te agar to the grain, and great looking jars, spawned to CVG, and let fruit. The Pinset was mediocre compared to my MS runs, and the fruits didn't seem to grow as large as my MS runs. I keep running through your notes and threads, I'm I can't seem to figure out your secret that is allowing you to get like 8oz dry on the first flush. I get 3 maybe, 4 at best. Which I wouldn't consider bad since I started in May, but I got goals to meet lol.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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The best way to prevent contams is proper sterile tek. This means well sterilized grain, clean inoculate, good expansion techniques. Get those things right and everything else becomes pointless.
If you want big yields up front the first thing you need to do is find an excellent fruiting culture. This can take a fair amount of trial and testing. You also need to fruit it a few different ways to see how it's going to do best. I have a really fast clone that does excellent in both bottles and spawned to a mono. However I found that when spawning it does better uncased. My best culture for monos demands casing and really does poorly in bottles. So find your cultures preference and give it exactly the conditions it wants.
Cannot stress enough proper dialing in either. See a lot of tubs that just lacked good pinning conditions and then lacked enough FAE once the pinset was in. It's balance. Too little RH and your sub dries out. Too little FAE and your fruits look like shit. Too much RH and you see pseudomonias and white molds. Balanced conditions.
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Pastywhyte
Say hello to my little friend



Registered: 09/15/12
Posts: 37,810
Loc: Canada
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Re: Salt and baking soda [Re: Pastywhyte]
#23588111 - 08/28/16 07:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Start becoming more demanding of what you consider a good fruiting clone. Run tests to see what it prefers.
This is an slighty above average producing clone uncased. Not terrible but room for improvement.

Same clone but cased. Much better results.

Stellar producing clone when cased. However uncased it is disappointing. It also does horrible in bottles.
Uncased (had a bit of bacteria possibly messing it up too)

Same clone cased

See the difference conditions make? See the difference between a decent culture in optimal conditions vs a stellar one in optimal conditions. Search for them genetics and them find what they really like.
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