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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: elax420] * 2
    #23639618 - 09/12/16 07:44 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

When logic has failed you:

1. Launch personal attack,
2. Declare victory, then
3. Leave to do, "real things."


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Crumist] * 1
    #23640570 - 09/13/16 03:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Crumist said:
If I didn't want that statement to be true do bad, I might just ask you to cite that 80% figure.
I agree with the sentiment, but I doubt it's that high. As individuals, rich people benefit from
low capital gains tax, no estate tax, getting maximum use out of 401ks, Roth IRAs, 529s (in English, federally
subsidized college and retirement savings). Since they tend to own stuff, they also benefit from
free football stadiums and other buildings for their businesses (for purposes of "providing jobs" that never
pan out. Tax exemptions for all these. They get maximum use out of the roads, utilities, educated labor
force, a healthy labor force.

Crony capitalism and corporate welfare, these are how GDP grows while general American welfare has slipped

And I think ObamaCare was certainly a step in the right direction. They struggled to get it passed and it was a
compromise, but it has undeniably helped millions of people,




Correction: i should have said top 20% rather than top 1% which is a rather big difference, though, as you said, the sentiment remains the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wealth_inequality_in_the_United_States
Quote:

In 2007, the top 20% wealthiest possessed 80% of all financial assets.[14] In 2007 the richest 1% of the American population owned 34.6% of the country's total wealth, and the next 19% owned 50.5%. Thus, the top 20% of Americans owned 85% of the country's wealth and the bottom 80% of the population owned 15%. In 2011, financial inequality was greater than inequality in total wealth, with the top 1% of the population owning 42.7%, the next 19% of Americans owning 50.3%, and the bottom 80% owning 7%.[15] However, after the Great Recession which started in 2007, the share of total wealth owned by the top 1% of the population grew from 34.6% to 37.1%, and that owned by the top 20% of Americans grew from 85% to 87.7%.




I had a hard time finding anything but numbers for income tax burden, while i was looking for total tax burden, but in my search i did find something close, and in the second chart it shows a tax burden of roughly 64% for the top 20% of earners which still supports my original statement somewhat if we were to simply switch both stats onto the top 20% rather than the top 1%. again, that is admittedly a big difference.

http://ctj.org/ctjreports/2016/04/read_in_pdf.php#.V9fGG_krLrc
Quote:

Many of the taxes we pay are regressive, meaning they take a larger share of income from poor and middle-income families than they do from the rich. To offset the regressive impact of payroll taxes, sales taxes and even some state and local income taxes, we need federal income tax policies that are more progressive than they are now.

Some features of the federal income tax mitigate the regressivity of other taxes, at least to a degree. For example, the federal personal income tax provides refundable tax credits such as the Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) and the Child Tax Credit, which can reduce or eliminate federal personal income tax liability for low-income working families and can even result in negative personal income taxes, meaning families receive a check from the IRS.

These tax credits are only available to taxpayers who work and therefore pay federal payroll taxes. These progressive provisions do make the income tax more progressive, but overall they do little more than offset the regressivity of other taxes that poor and middle-income families pay.

Estimates from the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy tax model, which are illustrated in these charts and tables, include the following key findings:

■ The richest one percent of Americans have 21.6 percent of total income and pay 23.6 percent of total taxes.

■ The poorest one-fifth of Americans have 3.3 percent of total income and pay 2.1 percent of total taxes.

■ Each income group’s share of taxes is quite similar to each group’s share of total income.

■ Contrary to popular belief, when all taxes are considered, the rich do not pay a dispropor­tionately high share of taxes. Although each income quintile pays combined federal, state and local taxes that are roughly equivalent to their share of the nation’s income, this by no means indicates our tax system is fine as is.  In a truly progressive tax system, millionaires and billionaires wouldn’t be paying roughly the same tax rates as working families earning $100,000 per year.










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OfflineCrumist
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: ballsalsa]
    #23640669 - 09/13/16 05:42 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Top notch post  :super:

Quote:

Enlil said:
When logic has failed you:

1. Launch personal attack,
2. Declare victory, then
3. Leave to do, "real things."




Sounds like a solid plan to me.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23641548 - 09/13/16 01:06 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
Then saying that everyone who didn't buy any cigarettes is getting a tax break.




But that's exactly what happens, dude.  Cigarettes are taxed.  People who don't by them aren't paying that tax.  That's a tax break.




Not paying taxes because you didn't buy something you were not going to buy anyway, is not a tax break.

Paying a penalty, which this year is...

Quote:

The annual fee for not having insurance in 2016 is $695 per adult and $347.50 per child (up to $2,085 for a family), or it's 2.5% of your household income above the tax return filing threshold for your filing status – whichever is greater.


... is a penalty.

If the government says I must have something and I say fuck you to the government, when the government 'fines' me for not, they have penalized me.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #23641559 - 09/13/16 01:08 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Nah...a penalty is meant to punish.  This is a tax meant to offset the additional cost to the government.


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Invisibleluvdemshrooms
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23641569 - 09/13/16 01:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Nah...a penalty is meant to punish.




Forcing Requiring someone to take part and them penalizing them when they don't... is punishing them.


Quote:

This is a tax meant to offset the additional cost to the government.




And to penalize those that don't play along. Hence, a penalty.

Edit: Poor word choice.


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You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is going to take care of them and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for that my dear friend is the beginning of the end of any nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it. ~ Adrian Rogers


Edited by luvdemshrooms (09/13/16 01:15 PM)


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: luvdemshrooms]
    #23641643 - 09/13/16 01:33 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Enlil is entering Falcon-Wealth status with his argument.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: luvdemshrooms] * 1
    #23641667 - 09/13/16 01:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

What matters is the intent.  If the intent is to punish, it's a penalty.  If the intent is to offset costs, it's just a tax.

The SCOTUS decided it was a tax.


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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: amp244]
    #23641678 - 09/13/16 01:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Anti American antagonistic provocateur...

And no intent does not matter. Now you sound like James Comey.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Peteyboy] * 1
    #23641690 - 09/13/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Of course it matters.  If you eat at my diner, and I make you pay for it, that's not a penalty.  That's paying a bill.  If you crash into my car, and I make you pay for it, that's not a penalty, that's compensating me for my losses that you caused.  If you don't have insurance, and the government has to pick up the tab, they can make you pay to offset that cost.  It doesn't make it a penalty.


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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Peteyboy]
    #23641694 - 09/13/16 01:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Also let's take a look at who decided this unconstitutional penalty...

http://www.cnn.com/interactive/2012/06/us/scotus.healthcare/

The 5 judges in the majority are some of the most progressive anti American pukes. Compare them to the real Patriots who were in dissent. Roberts, Soto Mayor, Breyer, Ginsburg, and Kagan...what a joke...They hate America and it's constitution of course they would pass it.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Peteyboy] * 1
    #23641706 - 09/13/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Meh, it doesn't matter now.  The Court has the final word, and that word is that it's a constitutional tax.  You might as well get used to it.


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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23641707 - 09/13/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Terrible analogies...flawed logic


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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Peteyboy]
    #23641710 - 09/13/16 01:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Again, it doesn't matter.  It's a tax.  It's constitutional.  This was decided long ago.  Crying about it now isn't going to change that fact.


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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23641716 - 09/13/16 01:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

It does matter! It means everything that's why Trump has to win. He is going to restore Patriots to the SCOTUS and repeal the unconstitutional obamacare and it's Bullshit penalties.


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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Peteyboy]
    #23641721 - 09/13/16 01:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

It's not constitutional if people who don't believe in our Constitution approve it.


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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Peteyboy] * 1
    #23641726 - 09/13/16 01:59 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

He's not going to do any of that.  First, it's unlikely he'll win.  Second, if he does win, he doesn't have the votes in Congress to repeal Obamacare.  Third, he's a buffoon with only a marginally functioning brain.


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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23641748 - 09/13/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Oh your in for a big surprise buddy. Keep telling yourself whatever you need to to sleep at night...but Trump is the next president, no doubt about it. And watch how fast Congress and the Senate turnaround when there's an actual leader in office.
  Trump's IQ is far higher then yours brother, and after seeing you on a couple threads it appears that you are the one with the marginally functional brain lol.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Peteyboy] * 2
    #23641755 - 09/13/16 02:10 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You should be careful with the flaming, dude.  You'll end up banned if you keep it up, and then you won't be here to gloat in November.


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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23641759 - 09/13/16 02:14 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Wait...so you can throw out insults about somebody who isn't here to defend himself but when same exact said insult is redirected onto you...it's now suddenly it's an infraction worthy of banning...interesting social justice warrior complex you have going


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Edited by Peteyboy (09/13/16 02:15 PM)


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