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OfflinePeteyboy
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23638615 - 09/12/16 02:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Lies...

https://www.healthcare.gov/fees/fee-for-not-being-covered/

They take the fees directly out of your tax return, isn't that convenient...


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Edited by Peteyboy (09/12/16 02:21 PM)


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Peteyboy] * 1
    #23638630 - 09/12/16 02:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Yeah...like I said, if you get health insurance, you get a tax break.  If you don't, you don't.  That's not a mandate.  That's a tax and spend plan, which the federal government has full authority to do.


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OfflinePeteyboy
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23638719 - 09/12/16 03:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You can play whatever word games you want, to play but the tax is clearly a penalty. We are already way over taxed as a country and this additional substantial tax, fee, penalty whatever you wanna call it... is breaking the backs of many people who were barely surviving pre obamacare. The economy is awful and people are struggling, this exponentially increasing MANDATED tax is meant to break us. It's an extra 2000+ a year for many families, that's alot of money brother.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Peteyboy] * 1
    #23638790 - 09/12/16 03:23 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

The tax isn't a penalty.  Uninsured people cost the government a lot of money. 

As to your "breaking the backs" nonsense, please...  The only people who are paying $2000 a year on this are people making 6 figures without insurance.  Do you know a lot of people making 6 figures that don't get benefits?


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23638796 - 09/12/16 03:26 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
No.  There is no penalty for not getting insurance.  There is simply a tax break for getting insurance. 

And yes, I have read it.



You are full of shit dude. I have had to incur a penalty for the passed 2 years because I didn't have Obamacare. They took money out of my refund both times. It went something like this: 'Did you have health care in 2015?' 'no' 'You owe x-amount of $ because you were not insured for such and such a period during 2015'. Its called the "individual responsibility" or some shit.

People aren't getting a tax break, they are avoiding incurring a penalty.

And I trust you are speaking of reading the pertinent parts of the ACA. Or are you saying you read all 950+ pages? If so, how long did it take you? I guess it depends on the material, but it generally takes me a while to finish a 1000 page book. I remember when I was in tax class, full comprehension of a section often required reading over the material two or three times. If you really read the entire thing in an effort to comprehend it, I will first reserve judgement on the quality of your life, and next guarantee that you have not retained the information. If there is one thing I learned from studying tax law, its that you need to be good at referencing and looking things up, rather than trying to memorize it. It is impossible to memorize the tax code, and while the ACA isn't as intricate, it is equally as boring, and I truly feel sorry for you if you took any less than a month to read it.


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Edited by amp244 (09/12/16 03:30 PM)


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Invisibleelax420
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Peteyboy] * 1
    #23638809 - 09/12/16 03:30 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If you are rich you pay next to nothing in tax. Get that one straight. It's an oligarchy and we need oligarchs to rule said oligarchy, and legions of lawyers to convince the peons with circular legalese of the oligarchs right to rule!

Fuck Obamacare, now the poor and overworked are forced to buy healthcare with their ever shrinking wages, what joke. How about the state sponsors public healthcare like the rest of the civilized world. Richest country in the history of the world yet due to arbitrage medical care is unavailable to a significant amount of its citizens
Lenin.jpg



Remember we are the most productive workers in American history, and we work the longest hours. Yet elites that do fuck all for the economy outside of financial manipulation and whoring themselves out to foreign interests reap the fruits of your labor!


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: amp244] * 1
    #23638812 - 09/12/16 03:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

You say penalty..I say tax break.  A penalty is meant to punish.  This isn't meant to do that at all.  This is meant to offset the cost of uninsured citizens to the U.S. government.  Of course, this isn't just my opinion...this is the opinion of the SCOTUS, which makes it law.

The Obamacare portion of the ACA, yes.


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OfflinePeteyboy
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23638826 - 09/12/16 03:37 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

No I don't know any people making that much money. But I do know alot of people that make a lot less who can barely afford groceries who are severely impacted by any increase I  expenses especially something that continues to increase year after year and is proven to be drastically unproductive. Just look at all the insurance companies bailing on the program. It's a total mess.


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OfflinePeteyboy
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Peteyboy]
    #23638836 - 09/12/16 03:39 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Any tax is a penalty. So a tax break infers that the penalty is decreased...big freaking deal I'm still being penalized...

Well said Elax


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Peteyboy] * 2
    #23638839 - 09/12/16 03:40 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

It's a disaster, and it should be repealed.  That doesn't justify making shit up about it, though.  Congress had the power to pass it, and they did.  If the people want it repealed, all it takes is to vote for senators and representatives that will repeal it.


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Invisibleelax420
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23638849 - 09/12/16 03:43 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You say penalty..I say tax break.  A penalty is meant to punish.  This isn't meant to do that at all.  This is meant to offset the cost of uninsured citizens to the U.S. government.  Of course, this isn't just my opinion...this is the opinion of the SCOTUS, which makes it law.

The Obamacare portion of the ACA, yes.





This is 100% meant to punish, or in your own words "to offset the costs incurred by the US gov"

Plainly stated: You are arguing that healthcare is a public good (hence the governments need to incur costs on our behalf) yet we should pay for access to said public good.....


so healthcare is a human right, that you don't have access to unless you pay a tax.
Ladies and gentlemen: the backwards ass logic of the Neo-liberals.



Atleast conservatives are straight up with people.


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: elax420] * 1
    #23638864 - 09/12/16 03:47 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I'm not saying it's a public good.  I'm saying that uninsured people cost the taxpayers a lot of money.  Why shouldn't those uninsured pay extra for that?

And I had to LOL when you referred to me as a liberal.


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23638872 - 09/12/16 03:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
You say penalty..I say tax break.  A penalty is meant to punish.  This isn't meant to do that at all.  This is meant to offset the cost of uninsured citizens to the U.S. government.  Of course, this isn't just my opinion...this is the opinion of the SCOTUS, which makes it law.

The Obamacare portion of the ACA, yes.



It is absolutely meant to punish. It is absolutely meant to deter those who do not have coverage. The point is to force universal healthcare through law. I'm not making anything up. I'm making an observation.

Your argument is tantamount to asking people on their tax returns how many packs of cigarettes they bought during the year, and taxing them in proportion to the amount they bought. Then saying that everyone who didn't buy any cigarettes is getting a tax break.

Even under your interpretation of the individual responsibility, it is a penalty so far as it is discriminatory in who it affects. The Individual responsibility is a burden solely on those without insurance. It is designed to force people to buy the insurance. The law serves, essentially, as a mandate to healthcare.


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Invisibleelax420
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23638873 - 09/12/16 03:48 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

If it's not a public good why is the govt subsidizing it in the first place?


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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: elax420] * 1
    #23638890 - 09/12/16 03:52 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

amp244 said:
Then saying that everyone who didn't buy any cigarettes is getting a tax break.




But that's exactly what happens, dude.  Cigarettes are taxed.  People who don't by them aren't paying that tax.  That's a tax break.


Quote:

elax420 said:
If it's not a public good why is the govt subsidizing it in the first place?



The government pays for public services.  Those services cost more because of uninsured people.  If your argument is that we should not require emergency rooms to treat people who can't pay, or paramedics to help broke people, I'd agree with that.  As long as we are forcing them to treat people, however, that's going to cost the government money.


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23638899 - 09/12/16 03:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I'm not saying it's a public good.  I'm saying that uninsured people cost the taxpayers a lot of money. Why shouldn't those uninsured pay extra for that?

And I had to LOL when you referred to me as a liberal.



The uninsured don't cost the taxpayers lots of money. A ballooning welfare state costs the taxpayers lots of money. Defense spending costs the taxpayers lots. There is no revenue problem. There is an expenditure problem. Period.


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Invisibleelax420
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23638911 - 09/12/16 03:57 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
I'm not saying it's a public good.  I'm saying that uninsured people cost the taxpayers a lot of money.  Why shouldn't those uninsured pay extra for that?

And I had to LOL when you referred to me as a liberal.





Liberals conservatives it's all the same pay to play bullshit.


Conservatives praise the idea of a free market but ultimately hate the realities of a truly free market just as much as a neo-liberal. Neo-Liberals whine and moan about social justice on the surface but do nothing to actually change systemic inequality, because
A)they are probably rich as shit and profit of inequality
B)deep down they don't care


Which is okay, I just can't stand people who openly lie to your face and insult your intelligence while doing it.

At its core a truly free market is disruptive as fuck to the current power structures.

Neither ideological viewpoint is prepared for the imminent made technological unemployment that's facing humanity.
A true free market mean free access to knowledge (wikileaks) and we all know how much the political establishment love that platform


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InvisibleEnlilMDiscord
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: amp244] * 1
    #23638913 - 09/12/16 03:58 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Your logic is flawed as fuck.  Sure, welfare and defense cost a lot.  I'd cut both of them by over 90% if it were up to me.  That doesn't mean that uninsured people don't cost the taxpayers a lot.  Go to any county hospital emergency room and then tell me that the taxpayers aren't footing the bill for billions of dollars of healthcare that will never be paid by the patients.


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InvisibleballsalsaMDiscord
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23638928 - 09/12/16 04:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
It's a disaster, and it should be repealed.  That doesn't justify making shit up about it, though.  Congress had the power to pass it, and they did.  If the people want it repealed, all it takes is to vote for senators and representatives that will repeal it.




this. a thousand times.


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Invisibleamp244
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Re: A vote for Hillary... [Re: Enlil]
    #23638931 - 09/12/16 04:02 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Enlil said:
Quote:

amp244 said:
Then saying that everyone who didn't buy any cigarettes is getting a tax break.




But that's exactly what happens, dude.  Cigarettes are taxed.  People who don't by them aren't paying that tax.  That's a tax break.




How in the hell is that a tax break? A tax break is a deduction or credit that is applied to your taxable income or tax obligation. How much of a tax break was I supposed to get for not smoking cigarettes last year? Cause I didn't get one, haha. I thought you were smart man. Seriously, this is Falcon wealth status. You pay a fine, you pay for insurance, or you are a criminal.


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"Monopoly, besides, is a great enemy to good management, which can never be universally established but in consequence of that free and universal competition which forces everybody to have recourse in it for the sake of self-defense." -Adam Smith


Edited by amp244 (09/12/16 04:07 PM)


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