|
tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
|
|
can we use carlton from fresh prince as an example of learning to speak english a certain way?
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
why don't you get your hands dirty and comment on an earlier reply in where you can make a point, and tell me how i'm wrong about how i should have phrased what i said, pertinently. how is "ingrained in DNA" an inappropriate term to define how language is acquired?
http://www.evolutionpages.com/FOXP2_language.htm
read this first.
|
Great Scott
Trigger Lover


Registered: 05/05/03
Posts: 19,797
Loc: Control Grid
Last seen: 4 years, 5 months
|
|
West Philadelphia born and raised.
--------------------
|
tyrannicalrex
Strange R



Registered: 04/24/03
Posts: 38,323
Loc: subtropics
|
|
I think/feel that the way a lot of people talk/speak/enunciate etc...a certain way might be due to not wanting to be an outcast in the place they live/grow up, sometimes it might be laziness and/or not wanting to conform to a certain way etc... lots of factors at play here. I also think that if someone tries hard enough they can overcome most if not all speech variances and speak English a certain way, maybe even all other languages. I don't really know.  Interesting to ponder though.
|
Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
|
A term like DeoxyriboNucleicAcid used in pretty much any context wouldn't really make me think "metaphor"
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
yeah, that's right.
Quote:
tyrannicalrex said: I think/feel that the way a lot of people talk/speak/enunciate etc...a certain way might be due to not wanting to be an outcast in the place they live/grow up, sometimes it might be laziness and/or not wanting to conform to a certain way etc... lots of factors at play here. I also think that if someone tries hard enough they can overcome most if not all speech variances and speak English a certain way, maybe even all other languages. I don't really know.  Interesting to ponder though.
i said dirty, not fucking clean. i want to be proven right so Omen can suck my metaphorical....
i know this shit man, i am a scientist.
genes produce the ability to learn language, at all, period. without said genes, no language processing capabilities = no first language.
so metaphorically speaking, it's "ingrained in their DNA..." (...to produce the ability to learn language at all) (and also to process and retain the language that they learn from their parents full stop [as Omen says])
|
Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
|
I don't get where the metaphor comes from.
In a literal sense I suppose you could say "the ability to speak is ingrained in their DNA," but that seems awkward to me.
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
|
ModestMouse
IM WALKIN ON SUNSHINE


Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 19,227
Loc: Upstate
|
Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Crumist]
#23630719 - 09/09/16 09:31 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
One time this dude pissed himself and tackled me at a party because I brought out some pot. It was glorious, as I had to pry his 250lb, sweaty ass off me.
-------------------- Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?
|
hex_enduction
satta massa gana



Registered: 01/26/14
Posts: 12,051
Last seen: 2 years, 8 months
|
|
The fuck kinda party were you at
--------------------
Connoisseur said: oh ive cried on drugs sunshine said: Tragic. I told the cop not to do it but he didn't listen.
|
ModestMouse
IM WALKIN ON SUNSHINE


Registered: 05/06/13
Posts: 19,227
Loc: Upstate
|
|
Some random house party I was invited to where I guess one of the roommates had a problem with pot and happened to be a complete nut job
-------------------- Anyone got a lowpass filter in this biiiiash?
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Crumist]
#23630736 - 09/09/16 09:38 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Crumist said: I don't get where the metaphor comes from.
In a literal sense I suppose you could say "the ability to speak is ingrained in their DNA," but that seems awkward to me.
mother produces speech ~ child can process speech due to FOXP2 ~ child then produces african-american dialect, naturally, and isn't "dumb" for speaking it, as specialpeopleclub says ~ thus it's 'ingrained' ("[of a habit, belief, or attitude] firmly fixed or established; difficult to change") in the DNA (the ability to process said language) (ie, it's not dumb, it's perfectly understandable and just sounds different and is slightly different.)
perhaps not 'in the DNA' but 'from the DNA' would be a better wording. but i dunno; i did say it was in ingrained in their DNA "TO SPEAK THAT WAY", that is to say, that "to speak that way" is 'ingrained' by the processes of their DNA.
get the metaphor yet?either way, it's not important if you do. it wasn't meant as a metaphor, really, it was just a figure of speech. a harmless planting of imprecise language to short-track the time it took to get what i say to someone said.
|
Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
|
Quote:
akira_akuma said:
Quote:
Crumist said: I don't get where the metaphor comes from.
In a literal sense I suppose you could say "the ability to speak is ingrained in their DNA," but that seems awkward to me.
mother produces speech ~ child can process speech due to FOXP2 ~ child then produces african-american dialect, naturally, and isn't "dumb" for speaking it, as specialpeopleclub says ~ thus it's 'ingrained' ("[of a habit, belief, or attitude] firmly fixed or established; difficult to change") in the DNA (the ability to process said language) (ie, it's not dumb, it's perfectly understandable and just sounds different and is slightly different.)
Quote:
perhaps not 'in the DNA' but 'from the DNA' would be a better wording.
I agree, sorry if I come off as nitpicky, but DNA is a molecule containing a shit-ton of instructions. from the DNA, to the various RNA, to proteins, to a millions and one different functions, which include developing, maintaining, and operating the various organs with speech related functions. Understanding speech starts with being sensed in the ear, processed in defined areas of the brain via what amounts to voodoo magic to our current understanding. Brain decides upon a response with more voodoo, sends signals to lungs, larynx, lips, tongue, and more. lungs force air through muscular larynx which produces the proper vibrations (sound) which are formed by the position of the lips and tongue.
As I see it, we are having the classic nature v. nurture debate. I'd put someone's dialect way over on the nurture side. And as far as a racial component, I really doubt there is any significance.
I also saw someone argue that speech is genetic and literacy is a learned skill. Id strongly argue both are learned skills. There have been people who were raised in an absence of language and they had to be taught to speak in adulthood
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Crumist]
#23630848 - 09/09/16 10:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
i think that's irrelevant, to be honest. you can learn the logic of language. you have secondary language skills you can use to cross that barrier, if you've been left without language when you were raised. you do not need the 'nurture' aspect to learn language. but a child's first language skills will be determined by those processes you further described above.
|
Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
|
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Crumist]
#23630878 - 09/09/16 10:32 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
yes, yes, i have heard of her before, very interesting case, very horrible situation. i was referring to your example, though, just for clarification -- which didn't include an unusual sample like that.
yes, if you're completely deprived of language skills, yeah, you can lose your ability to ever speak, perhaps it's psychological, or perhaps it's a literal linguistic phenomena . who knows. having literally no language development while growing up, that'd stunt your ability to expand your language skills; for sure it would. i'm sure there is a whole science to expound on in terms of teaching a psychologically damaged child/adult to speak or do other social tasks. have you seen the documentary film Best Kept Secret? i have. ooo, it actually now has the coveted 100% Rotten Rating.
|
clock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them


Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
|
Herzog's The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser (the literal translation of the German title is Every Man for Himself and God Against All, a way better title) is a great 'feral child' movie.
|
Crumist
Stranger


Registered: 11/02/13
Posts: 781
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
|
|
Jeder Mensch fuer er und Goett kriegt Alle?
How'd I do, its been a long time since I've had a German class
-------------------- 'I am all for resources being allocated to the widowed single mother of 3, lost husband over seas fighting for our country. I am for vets getting mental health access and resources following war. I am not for free money cause a woman can't close her legs or some chump with low testosterone no going to work cause "i'm sad."' -finalexplosion Nice knowin ya'll! https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/23904704/vc/1#23904704
|
clock_of_omens
razzle them dazzle them


Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 4,097
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
|
Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Crumist]
#23631011 - 09/09/16 11:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
|
|
According to wiki 'Jeder für sich und Gott gegen alle'.
|
akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
|
|
Quote:
clock_of_omens said: Herzog's The Enigma of Kaspar Hauser (the literal translation of the German title is Every Man for Himself and God Against All, a way better title) is a great 'feral child' movie.
ya, i hear it's good. interesting true life story too. i think. unless it's legend. i'm pretty sure it's documented, though.
|
|