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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Great Scott]
    #23582334 - 08/27/16 01:26 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
Dude, is this a schtick or are you literally a missionary? What's going on here? WTF is your purpose on this forum?




Nico randomly popped in and made the claim that Jesus was a commie. He stated it emphatically as though it were fact even though it's not. I didn't initiate any of this.




Jesus was so a commie.


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Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Great Scott]
    #23582335 - 08/27/16 01:27 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Jesus did indeed have socialist principles.

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." -Matthew 19:21

But if someone who is supposed to be a Christian has money enough to live well, and sees a brother in need, and won't help him--how can God's love be within him ? -1 John 3:17

Anyone who oppresses the poor is insulting God who made them. To help the poor is to honor God. -Prov. 14:31

If you give to the poor, your needs will be supplied! But a curse upon those who close their eyes to poverty. -Prov. 28:27


Capitalism by definition is oppression of the poor, the poor class must exist within the established hierarchy in order for capitalism to work. Jesus by definition was anti-capitalist.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #23582337 - 08/27/16 01:27 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
Dude, is this a schtick or are you literally a missionary? What's going on here? WTF is your purpose on this forum?




Nico randomly popped in and made the claim that Jesus was a commie. He stated it emphatically as though it were fact even though it's not. I didn't initiate any of this.




Jesus was so a commie.




That's neither a fact nor an argument. That's just an opinion which is based on a lie.


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:thumbup: :thumbdown:


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Great Scott]
    #23582338 - 08/27/16 01:28 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:

Jesus would never prefer a system that inevitably results in failure and human misery 100% of the time, versus a system that at least has a chance not to, while simultaneously preserving our God-given rights.




Incorrect. By definition the poor class must exist and continuously be oppressed in capitalism--that's how capitalism works, duh.

At the very least, Jesus is anti-capitalist.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Great Scott]
    #23582341 - 08/27/16 01:33 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You should look up Christian socialism. It's a socialist movement that started based on Jesus' teachings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_socialism

“No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.” (Matthew 6:24)

“Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God” (Luke 6:20-22) and an accompanying curse on the rich: “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation.” (Luke 6:24).

What do you think Jesus would say about the 1% in society?


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Crystal G]
    #23582347 - 08/27/16 01:37 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Jesus did indeed have socialist principles.

Jesus answered, "If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." -Matthew 19:21

But if someone who is supposed to be a Christian has money enough to live well, and sees a brother in need, and won't help him--how can God's love be within him ? -1 John 3:17

Anyone who oppresses the poor is insulting God who made them. To help the poor is to honor God. -Prov. 14:31

If you give to the poor, your needs will be supplied! But a curse upon those who close their eyes to poverty. -Prov. 28:27


Capitalism by definition is oppression of the poor, the poor class must exist within the established hierarchy in order for capitalism to work. Jesus by definition was anti-capitalist.




Communism doesn't prevent oppression, it creates more of it. And Communism doesn't encourage charity and good will, it mandates it by force and then presumes to execute it while providing neither. I'm sorry but your leftist delusion is just that... a delusion.


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:thumbup: :thumbdown:


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Great Scott]
    #23582348 - 08/27/16 01:39 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Communism doesn't prevent oppression, it creates more of it. And Communism doesn't encourage charity and good will, it mandates it by force and then presumes to execute it while providing neither. I'm sorry but your leftist delusion is just that... a delusion.




Strawman, nowhere in any of my posts did I mention communism.

All I said was that Jesus was anti-capitalist and had socialist principles. Which is true based on his teachings. Quit arguing the facts, seems like you're in denial.

Actually his philosophy is similar to post-Marxism, they tend to be more critical of the banking reserves than on focusing on the promotion of communism.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Crystal G]
    #23582361 - 08/27/16 02:01 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:

Jesus would never prefer a system that inevitably results in failure and human misery 100% of the time, versus a system that at least has a chance not to, while simultaneously preserving our God-given rights.




Incorrect. By definition the poor class must exist and continuously be oppressed in capitalism--that's how capitalism works, duh.

At the very least, Jesus is anti-capitalist.




And the alternative is Communism which is a 100% certainty of permanent class immobility. In Capitalism, under our Constitution, we are born equal to all others before God, who is the only sovereign (meaning no man can rule us, only God). You are not guaranteed equality in earthly possessions for where the fruits of your labors are the determining factor. These are two distinct types of equality. One is inalienable (Spirit derived) and the other is earned through your work (flesh derived). I know it doesn't always work out fairly and there is cheating and rigging and all sorts of shenanigans, but again you have to remember the alternative, which is Communism and it's 100% guarantee of enslavement and the desecration of God-given rights.


--------------------
:thumbup: :thumbdown:


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Great Scott]
    #23582367 - 08/27/16 02:05 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
And the alternative is Communism which is a 100% certainty of permanent class immobility.




No, that's not the only alternative. Several countries that are currently in existence work on a foundation of both socialist and capitalist principles. In fact, countries with the best qualities of life tend to work on these principles.


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Great Scott]
    #23582370 - 08/27/16 02:08 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
In Capitalism, under our Constitution, we are born equal to all others before God, who is the only sovereign (meaning no man can rule us, only God).




Lol what? What does constitutional law have to do with capitalism?

Nobody is born equal under capitalism, people with family money are clearly given advantageous lives over those who are impoverished. Literally the only determining factor is based on luck, whether you are one of the few people born to these types of families or not.


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Crystal G]
    #23582376 - 08/27/16 02:10 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

It is getting deep in here.


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Crystal G]
    #23582385 - 08/27/16 02:25 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
You should look up Christian socialism. It's a socialist movement that started based on Jesus' teachings: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_socialism

“No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money.” (Matthew 6:24)

“Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God” (Luke 6:20-22) and an accompanying curse on the rich: “But woe to you who are rich, for you have received your consolation.” (Luke 6:24).

What do you think Jesus would say about the 1% in society?




You keep quoting scripture that doesn't mean what you think it means. You can have money and possessions, the point is to be spiritually detached from these wordly things. Recognize their impermanence and the fact that you can't take any of it with you when you die. Earning money and loving money are not inextricably bound, though they often can be, and that's the warning. There is no fault in working for what you have, as long as it's honest work. It's no sin to be materially rich, just as being materially poor is no virtue in and of itself. The righteous and the unrighteous exists in both classes of wealth. And just to reiterate here, Jesus is not advocating for a government which forces us to do any of these things, he is advocating for the spirit which inspires and compels us to do these things. Jesus is not advocating any form of Government at all, really. That's what makes him an anarcho-capitalist. And that's why our Founding Father's vision of limited government, Constitutional Representative Republic, free market system is the best Government human beings have ever devised, in an honest and intelligent attempt to honor these tenets.


--------------------
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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Great Scott]
    #23582402 - 08/27/16 02:54 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:

That's what makes him an anarcho-capitalist. And that's why our Founding Father's vision of limited government, Constitutional Representative Republic, free market system is the best Government human beings have ever devised, in an honest and intelligent attempt to honor these tenets.




Anarcho capitalism was a failure in the USA and in England.

In fact, that's the very reason measures such as labor laws were implemented, was because during the Industrial Revolution the poor were being exploited for 20 cents, being overworked at 18+ hours each day, similar to the slave factories you would see in Bangladesh or India or China today.

And of course, none of them had the choice to simply "opt out" of capitalism, because doing so essentially means you will go homeless and hungry.

So much for capitalism being the "choice of freedom and prosperity."


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Crystal G]
    #23582415 - 08/27/16 03:11 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Crystal G said:
Nobody is born equal under capitalism, people with family money are clearly given advantageous lives over those who are impoverished. Literally the only determining factor is based on luck, whether you are one of the few people born to these types of families or not.




Tough shit. Life is unfair. We are all born equal in the spirit and equal in the sense that you are nobody's slave and nobody's master and you may do with your life and your freedom what you so choose (well, except your parents sort of own you, but hey, at least that's better than being owned by the state :wink: ) But God does not grant you the right to be born financially equal to everyone else. You want the government to steal family wealth that was earned generationally and give it to someone who's family didn't earn it for them? That's what charity is for. Remember, Jesus preached charity, not theft. If you are born into wealth, then you're lucky, and if you weren't, then you're unlucky. Now if it can be proven that some or all of that wealth was stolen, then it should be returned to whom it was stolen from. Of course, this figure isn't always quantifiable, so it's nearly impossible to determine who owes exactly how much to which person (ie: black slavery reparations, environmental degradation in industry, and other exploits). But if you can't quantify it and you can't identify the particular offender, don't just start pulling numbers out of your ass and demanding money from some unspecified "1%'er". And the problem with this whole plan to tax the rich is that the truly egregious offenders won't be touched by any of these taxes and you'll just end up taxing the quasi-rich who's wealth is (mostly) rightfully earned and/or inherited from family who rightfully earned it before them. Before I get too long winded I'll just leave you with a final note: I'm sorry that you feel it's unfair someone is born with family wealth, but your socialist scheme is driven by envy, jealousy, and covetousness, all of which are irreconcilable with Jesus' teachings. Hence it goes against God. And hence Jesus ain't no stinkin' commie. :strokebeard:


--------------------
:thumbup: :thumbdown:


Edited by Great Scott (08/27/16 03:17 AM)


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Offlinepropensity
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Great Scott]
    #23582423 - 08/27/16 03:19 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Quote:

Crystal G said:
Nobody is born equal under capitalism, people with family money are clearly given advantageous lives over those who are impoverished. Literally the only determining factor is based on luck, whether you are one of the few people born to these types of families or not.




Tough shit. Life is unfair. We are all born equal in the spirit and equal in the sense that you are nobody's slave and nobody's master and you may do with your life and your freedom what you so choose (well, except your parents sort of own you, but hey, at least that's better than being owned by the state :wink: ) But God does not grant you the right to be born financially equal to everyone else. You want the government to steal family wealth that was earned generationally and give it to someone who's family didn't earn it for them? That's what charity is for. Remember, Jesus preached charity, not theft. If you are born into wealth, then you're lucky, and if you weren't, then you're unlucky. Now if it can be proven that some or all of that wealth was stolen, then it should be returned to whom it was stolen from. Of course, this figure isn't always quantifiable, so it's nearly impossible to determine who owes exactly how much to which person (ie: black slavery reparations, environmental degradation in industry, and other exploits). But if you can't quantify it and you can't identify the particular offender, don't just start pulling numbers out of your ass and demanding money from some unspecified "1%'er". And the problem with this whole plan to tax the rich is that the truly egregious offenders won't be touched by any of these taxes and you'll just end up taxing the quasi-rich who's wealth is (mostly) rightfully earned and/or inherited from family who rightfully earned it before them. Before I get too long winded I'll just leave you with a final note: I'm sorry that you feel it's unfair someone is born with family wealth, but your socialist scheme is driven by envy, jealousy, and covetousness, all of which are irreconcilable with Jesus' teachings. Hence it goes against God. And hence Jesus ain't no stinkin' commie. :strokebeard:




This whole thing stinks to high heaven.


--------------------


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: propensity]
    #23582425 - 08/27/16 03:21 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:notyou:


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OfflineGreat Scott
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: California]
    #23582426 - 08/27/16 03:24 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

California said:
It is getting deep in here.




Too deep.



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OfflineBrian Jones
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: starfire_xes]
    #23582479 - 08/27/16 04:19 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

starfire_xes said:
Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
It's about more than just that. 







was that song made famous during the clinton/lewinsky scandal?




    No that song was made famous in 75 when Ford was President, and then during the Jimmy Carter years.
    I am at a loss curious/perplexed (and I'm talking about 40 or so people on here) so I'm not singling anyone out), but the things that most  younger people say on here are mind-blowingly, not having a clue.
    Starfire, I realize your comment may have been pure sarcasm, so this isn't much about that post.


--------------------
"The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body"    John Lennon

I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.

The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,


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OfflineCrystal G
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: Great Scott]
    #23582530 - 08/27/16 05:13 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

PeyoteZen said:
Tough shit. Life is unfair. We are all born equal in the spirit and equal in the sense that you are nobody's slave and nobody's master and you may do with your life and your freedom what you so choose (well, except your parents sort of own you, but hey, at least that's better than being owned by the state :wink: )




So... equal in spirit? Not quite the same thing as equal under law or practicality...

Quote:

But God does not grant you the right to be born financially equal to everyone else.




No, he doesn't. And no, we aren't. At least be truthful about reality.

So... you acknowledge life is unfair, and that people are born into disparate financial circumstances, but you still parrot the belief that we are born financially equal? Do you even hear what you're saying?

If life is unfair, then by definition, it means things are unequal.

Quote:

I'm sorry that you feel it's unfair someone is born with family wealth, but your socialist scheme is driven by envy, jealousy, and covetousness, all of which are irreconcilable with Jesus' teachings. Hence it goes against God. And hence Jesus ain't no stinkin' commie. :strokebeard:




Not really. Generally speaking, socialists have no desire to be rich, monetarily-speaking. They usually don't covet things such as brand-name clothing or Veblen goods, most of us think these items are worthless and have no value except for the fact that its price is set artificially high. In other words, it's sold by con artists.

Somebody once gave me a $5,000 bag as a gift. To be honest, I've never taken the thing out with me ever before. I don't have a use for it.

Actually that's one of the reasons Danish people tend to be happier, so I hear. Is because Danish people grow up with the belief that they will be generally middle-class, but be able to live comfortably. They don't grow up with the aspiration that they should be uber-successful or extravagantly wealthy, instead they shoot for a moderate living that allows for a modest but pleasant lifestyle.


Edited by Crystal G (08/27/16 05:44 AM)


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Offlinehostileuniverse
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Re: fuck the alt-right [Re: The Ecstatic]
    #23582708 - 08/27/16 08:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

The Ecstatic said:
Black people arent being called niggers while the crowd cheers as theyre thrown out of Hillary rallies.


Are you really going to try to pretend black attendance of both candidates' rallies are even remotely similar? You already admitted blacks tend to vote dem, so just concede that point and let it go.




So if trumps rallies are predominately white, it must be racism

Yet, if Hillary rallies are also predominantly white, it doesn't mean anything?

Is that REALLY your position?


--------------------
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