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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,518
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Torrenting...all the good shit was shut down [Re: Shroomism]
#23584089 - 08/27/16 04:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Explain why.
You're thinking in terms of money, but that's not the whole picture.
If I walk into your house and rummage through your drawers, does that cost you money? No. Have you still been victimized? Yes. It's because I violated your right to choose who walks into your house. You're now somewhat less secure in your privacy. Are you any less victimized if I leave a hundred bucks on the counter each time? No.
Copyright is the right to control how ones work is copied. At its core, it is about choosing how many copies of your work still exist.
Now, you may agree or disagree about whether that right should be protected, but the fact is that, as a society, we've chosen to protect that right, and artists create knowing that this right is protected. That's part of the social compact that we all live in.
By exempting oneself from the rules of society while simultaneously benefiting from those rules that encourage art to be created, one is taking advantage of those around oneself.
Now, if an artist wants to have his work freely distributed, that's his call. It's not okay, however, for you to make that call for him.
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PatrickKn



Registered: 07/10/11
Posts: 20,564
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Re: Torrenting...all the good shit was shut down [Re: Shroomism]
#23584100 - 08/27/16 04:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's a double edged sword. It can be a means of promoting something and giving it exposure, and it can surely kill it as well. Software is a big one, and can be helped tremendously by piracy, or hurt by it to the point of everything being a waste of time in creating it. It all comes down to the audience, as every audience doesn't necessarily have a philanthropic subset willing to buy things after trying.
I would agree that it does more good for exposure than harm a majority of the time. But it's not one way or another every time.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Torrenting...all the good shit was shut down [Re: Enlil]
#23584178 - 08/27/16 04:21 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Enlil said:
Quote:
Shroomism said: Explain why.
You're thinking in terms of money, but that's not the whole picture.
If I walk into your house and rummage through your drawers, does that cost you money? No. Have you still been victimized? Yes. It's because I violated your right to choose who walks into your house. You're now somewhat less secure in your privacy. Are you any less victimized if I leave a hundred bucks on the counter each time? No.
Copyright is the right to control how ones work is copied. At its core, it is about choosing how many copies of your work still exist.
Now, you may agree or disagree about whether that right should be protected, but the fact is that, as a society, we've chosen to protect that right, and artists create knowing that this right is protected. That's part of the social compact that we all live in.
By exempting oneself from the rules of society while simultaneously benefiting from those rules that encourage art to be created, one is taking advantage of those around oneself.
Now, if an artist wants to have his work freely distributed, that's his call. It's not okay, however, for you to make that call for him.
That's all well and good... but piracy isn't breaking into someone's house and rooting through their underwear drawer.
Piracy would be you taking a picture of your underwear drawer, posting it online for sale - and then someone making or distributing a copy of that picture. Then all of a sudden you have 50,000 people who want to buy your underwear pictures out of nowhere.
I'm not saying it's "good across the board". But it does benefit the people who get pirated from - more often than not.
Even on the software side of things, while I'll agree sometimes companies do get hurt from pirated software. More often the case is that more people using that software = more interest in the company = more money. Even the people who pirate the software, in their releases and the readme notes they almost always say.. if you like this software.. buy it and support the company! Not that everyone follows that. But many actually do. Some people want to try out the full versions of software before they shell out $500 for it.
How many people bought Adobe Master Collection or whatever, that wouldn't have otherwise.. simply because they pirated it first? I bet it's a lot.
The only people concerned with people "illegally" downloading their music... are Metallica with their 50 million dollar 24k gold toilets and the billionaire music industry execs who exploit musicians for a living.. all of a sudden they are getting exploited and it's a capitol sin. The vast majority of musicians make their money from shows, so the more people listening to their music, the better.. whether they paid for it or not.
The biggest complaint made against piracy is that it hurts sales. But that's not really true at all..
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,518
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Torrenting...all the good shit was shut down [Re: Shroomism]
#23584207 - 08/27/16 04:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Sounds like rationalization to me.
Stealing from the rich isn't any less immoral than stealing from the poor, and it's really not up to you to decide whether someone else would be better off with you violating his/her rights.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Torrenting...all the good shit was shut down [Re: Enlil] 2
#23584218 - 08/27/16 04:29 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's not stealing. Theft requires something to be missing after the fact.
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Patlal
You ask too many questions


Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,797
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: Torrenting...all the good shit was shut down [Re: Enlil]
#23584223 - 08/27/16 04:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I'm a proud pirate.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,518
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Torrenting...all the good shit was shut down [Re: Shroomism]
#23584229 - 08/27/16 04:31 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I didn't say it was. I'm making a point that the socio-economic status of a victim doesn't change the morality of the conduct.
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Re: Torrenting...all the good shit was shut down [Re: Enlil]
#23584234 - 08/27/16 04:32 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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And I never said anything about the socio-economic status of a "victim" changing the morality of it. I just stated the people who have the biggest problems with piracy, are usually the already filthy rich ones, for whatever reason.
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Enlil
OTD God-King




Registered: 08/16/03
Posts: 65,518
Loc: Uncanny Valley
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Re: Torrenting...all the good shit was shut down [Re: Shroomism] 1
#23584261 - 08/27/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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We're never going to agree. You want free music and software, and you don't want to feel like you're immoral. Pretending that you're doing someone a favor is silly, but whatever helps you sleep at night.
I reached a point where I could no longer rationalize the behavior, so I quit. You may or may not reach that point someday.
-------------------- Censoring opposing views since 2014. Ask an Attorney Fuck the Amish
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Enjoywho
Rags to Bitches



Registered: 07/06/09
Posts: 20,880
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Re: Torrenting...all the good shit was shut down [Re: Enlil]
#23584419 - 08/27/16 05:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I download everything for free. Fuck paying for it. That's for chumps.
At op I agree it is getting harder and harder to find legit torrents these days.
-------------------- "I don't give nothin' to nobody, I just pay the cost to do business." - Riley "Young Reezy"-Boondocks "The road to hell is paved with good intentions." "In the days of kings and queens I was a jester." "And then the great lord created bears... too many bears... shoulda really dialed back on the bears." Squidbillies "Can you start speaking words instead of your damn filthy lies!"- Louise "Bobs Burgers"
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Around In Circles
Eternally Recurring


Registered: 01/29/06
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Re: Torrenting...all the good shit was shut down [Re: Enjoywho]
#23587007 - 08/28/16 01:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I hate to say it, but I do think that eventually the internet is going to be throttled and we will look back and sigh that one day we had open access to nearly everything available/possible: free music/media/software via torrenting, online drug trade etc.
I am too stoned to make any kind of cohesive point here, but I do think the Golden Age of the internet is winding down. 
I hope that I'm wrong. 
Back in my day...
Edited by Around In Circles (08/28/16 09:53 PM)
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