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CLIT
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can someone beat the house with skills?
#23571948 - 08/24/16 06:13 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I know it's rare. I've never been into a casino but was curious if the games in the casinos are "pure luck games" or some do require "skills"? There had to be a strategy to better the odds of winning. I would assume knowing how the games are played would help rather than going in to the casino to simply "gamble" rather than actually execute what needs to be done aka having a strategy of sort.
Casinos aren't like state lotteries, right?
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perikleous
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: CLIT]
#23572011 - 08/24/16 06:48 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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As with anything you do in life, the more knowledge you have and info you remember as well as learned hands on skill, the better you will be at that "job" wether it be gambling or painting your home, it doesn't matter. That said, the skills only carry you so far,LUCK, your ability to "quit when your ahead" and "know when to walk away" play a huge role in your ability to do ok. The house has the odds in there favor for several reasons, one 1st and foremost is sheer numbers of gamblers and there desire to "go for broke" going after a score and just like any habit you get lost in the moment because its a distraction from any/all negative thoughts in life, like being high. So the winnings you may have in front of you usually go back to the house, wether it be now in the moment, or when you return thinking you know something and youll win again. Luck doesnt last forever! they casino owners are in it for the long run, the gambler is in for the short run, that being said the odds are clearly stacked in there favor because they can eeek a small number from the majority of gamblers over an extended period and you are simply one person looking to score big now! This is regarding games against the "house" poker and games that your skills and money are against other betters are different, in those games the house is simply getting a share off each wager made, they win regardless because they get a cut of each bet, your betting against other players, like parimutual wagering(horse racing and such).
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iateshaggy
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: perikleous]
#23573876 - 08/24/16 06:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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yes, and the house can kick you out for winning that way.
-------------------- You are a filipina sex goddess who wants to fuck me until I fall asleep, so then you can tickle my balls and see if the legend of my diamond filled nutsuck is true. I am a white man from costa rica, who smells like lime jello.
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ManianFH
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: iateshaggy]
#23574855 - 08/25/16 01:40 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
iateshaggy said: yes, and the house can kick you out for winning that way.
they can buy if youre smooth about it they wont. Be respectful and they might even look the other way. By respectful that means, dont be loading up greens on a positive count in blackjack. Stick to the reds, and just have a good time.
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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LunarEclipse
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: ManianFH]
#23575389 - 08/25/16 09:06 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's possible to eke out a small edge with counting cards. Knowing when the count is horrible helps along with pressing your bet. A lot of problems come in with dealers who shuffle the tits off the cards and pick them up and stack them more randomly. You want more of the lazy dealer otherwise you get all those 14 hands and are stumped by their face card up with their 14 hand as well but note who busts out first loses.
-------------------- Anxiety is what you make it.
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ballsalsa
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: CLIT]
#23575479 - 08/25/16 09:36 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
CLIT said: I know it's rare. I've never been into a casino but was curious if the games in the casinos are "pure luck games" or some do require "skills"? There had to be a strategy to better the odds of winning. I would assume knowing how the games are played would help rather than going in to the casino to simply "gamble" rather than actually execute what needs to be done aka having a strategy of sort.
As someone previously mentioned, the only games where you as a player can gain an edge through skill are games against other players like poker, or horse betting. All casino table games like craps, roulette, blackjack, 3 and 4 card poker, etc., have odds that favor the house. Some only favor the house by a little bit, some more, and you can decrease the house edge to a limit by playing "correctly" in most cases. Black Jack seems like it should be an exception, because you can give yourself a slight edge by keeping a relative count and adjusting your bets accordingly, however, counting cards is considered "cheating" and you can be tossed out for it.
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Brian Jones
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: ballsalsa]
#23577062 - 08/25/16 06:05 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Beating the house is very slim odds. Even in a skill game like poker, they take a rake out of every pot, and the winner of each hand (almost) always tips the dealer. I don't know enough about horse racing but I believe it is a crooked sport, with a lot of mob influence.
I think the thing to do is play cards and bet sports with friends and trusted associates, eliminating the house edge. Sure you miss the excitement of a casino, but there is a big price attached to that atmosphere and a few free drinks.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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Brian Jones
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: Brian Jones]
#23577066 - 08/25/16 06:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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But as mentioned, if you win in a casino you have to walk away.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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ManianFH
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: Brian Jones]
#23582209 - 08/27/16 12:12 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said: Beating the house is very slim odds. Even in a skill game like poker, they take a rake out of every pot, and the winner of each hand (almost) always tips the dealer. I don't know enough about horse racing but I believe it is a crooked sport, with a lot of mob influence.
I think the thing to do is play cards and bet sports with friends and trusted associates, eliminating the house edge. Sure you miss the excitement of a casino, but there is a big price attached to that atmosphere and a few free drinks.
I believe you can beat the house with sports bets. They set the line based on their information, but it is not as accurate as the information you can gather by being well researched in a sport. Every year I track my NFL bets, and have historically averaged ~60% accuracy over 100 or so bets. That beats counting cards by a wide margin.
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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Brian Jones
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: ManianFH]
#23582536 - 08/27/16 05:16 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Yeah Mick, I had good years betting Football with bookies but then I had a bad year, when my job was getting slow and quit doing it. I noticed you talking about parleys, which look so attractive; to quote "Devo", an uncontrollable urge. I think my bookie loved his customers playing parleys. It seemed like I would always get fucked on the last game. Just my opinion, but I think it takes 4-5 years before you really know if you're a good sports bettor. I quit after 3 except little things here and there.
Good Luck to you.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
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ch1ck3n.s0up
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: Brian Jones]
#23588354 - 08/28/16 08:45 PM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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There's tons of talk about counting cards, shoe counters, pro dice throwers, etc. There's the classic "Beat the Dealer" book. If you're that good, then go for it, but In my experience, the best success stories come from staying very focused on the game:
1. Understand the game you're playing, and play perfectly--both your money management system, and your game: -- Theoretical odds for these games only apply WITH PERFECT PLAY. Example: in Blackjack your odds are 47.5/52.5--with perfect play. You will lose more hands than you win; the idea is to have the big money down on your winning hands. Tricky! -- If you start making bad plays, like not doubling down at the right times, your odds quickly drop to 40/60, or less. -- Example: In Blackjack, if you have 12, and the dealer is showing a 6, in some systems, you should double down. It's fine details like this that keep your odds tight. 2. Having a good money-management system in place, and knowing when it's time to keep your bets low, and when to press your bet up. 3. Truly understanding the game, and playing correctly. 4. Don't be too proud to use legal helps, like a blackjack grid, at the table. You might get some ribbing, but it will keep you focused. 5. Keep your mind clear: passing on the free drinks! (NOT EASY). No herb, or other mind-altering substances. Keep your eyes OFF the cute cocktail waitresses. Don't talk to them. Any one of these can trip you up on a few hands, and your odds quickly drop back to 40/60, or lower.
If you start winning, the pit bosses will do everything in their power to trip you up: drinks, sexy women, shuffling, switching dealers/pit bosses, asking you to sign up, breaking your flow... etc. Be aware, play sober, and stay focused.
Oh, and one other thing: try playing at smaller casinos. They often give you a slight edge here and there, because its harder for them to compete against the big houses. Example: one small casino used to give half-back on a green on Roulette.

-------------------- "Inspiration ~ Move me brightly ~ light the song with sense and color ~ hold away despair ~ more than this I will not ask ~ faced with mysteries dark and vast ~ statements just seem vain at last" --Jerry Garcia, Terrapin Station "Officer, I'm going to remain silent, and I would like to speak with a lawyer. I'm not resisting, but I don't consent to any searches.
Edited by ch1ck3n.s0up (08/28/16 09:02 PM)
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ManianFH
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: ch1ck3n.s0up]
#23592278 - 08/30/16 02:13 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
ch1ck3n.s0up said: There's tons of talk about counting cards, shoe counters, pro dice throwers, etc. There's the classic "Beat the Dealer" book. If you're that good, then go for it, but In my experience, the best success stories come from staying very focused on the game:
1. Understand the game you're playing, and play perfectly--both your money management system, and your game: -- Theoretical odds for these games only apply WITH PERFECT PLAY. Example: in Blackjack your odds are 47.5/52.5--with perfect play. You will lose more hands than you win; the idea is to have the big money down on your winning hands. Tricky! -- If you start making bad plays, like not doubling down at the right times, your odds quickly drop to 40/60, or less. -- Example: In Blackjack, if you have 12, and the dealer is showing a 6, in some systems, you should double down. It's fine details like this that keep your odds tight. 2. Having a good money-management system in place, and knowing when it's time to keep your bets low, and when to press your bet up. 3. Truly understanding the game, and playing correctly. 4. Don't be too proud to use legal helps, like a blackjack grid, at the table. You might get some ribbing, but it will keep you focused. 5. Keep your mind clear: passing on the free drinks! (NOT EASY). No herb, or other mind-altering substances. Keep your eyes OFF the cute cocktail waitresses. Don't talk to them. Any one of these can trip you up on a few hands, and your odds quickly drop back to 40/60, or lower.
If you start winning, the pit bosses will do everything in their power to trip you up: drinks, sexy women, shuffling, switching dealers/pit bosses, asking you to sign up, breaking your flow... etc. Be aware, play sober, and stay focused.
Oh, and one other thing: try playing at smaller casinos. They often give you a slight edge here and there, because its harder for them to compete against the big houses. Example: one small casino used to give half-back on a green on Roulette.

Well stated. Its worth mentioning again that PERFECT PLAY is needed to even come close to odds that will keep you at pace with the casinos. If you are afraid to double down on a $45 bet at a blackjack table, even though statistics tell you to, then dont play blackjack, you will lose. I love gambling, passionately. Have gambled all my life and can tell you it is so fucking hard to beat the casinos that if you are not at the top of your game, you should just be trying to have fun. And funny thing is, when you are having a good time, you tend to win more anyways, so yeah just go into it with the mentality that youre there to enjoy the experience.
Also, not sure if i mentioned this, but if you want something that gives you an advantage over the house, your only bet is poker machines. Look at the site http://www.vpfree2.com/
It lists all the casinos that have machines that pay high percentages relative to house edge. Some machines actually turn the edge to your favor (keep in mind you need a bankroll of about 10,000$ or so to weather the variance) - but if you sit there long enough with PERFECT strategy, you will actually come up. Add comps, and free drinks on top of it - golden.
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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ManianFH
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: Brian Jones]
#23592284 - 08/30/16 02:20 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Quote:
Brian Jones said: Yeah Mick, I had good years betting Football with bookies but then I had a bad year, when my job was getting slow and quit doing it. I noticed you talking about parleys, which look so attractive; to quote "Devo", an uncontrollable urge. I think my bookie loved his customers playing parleys. It seemed like I would always get fucked on the last game. Just my opinion, but I think it takes 4-5 years before you really know if you're a good sports bettor. I quit after 3 except little things here and there.
Good Luck to you.
Thanks man, and good luck to you too, if you ever choose to get back into it. Can be a dangerous game to play. I was lucky enough to learn my lessons as a broke man, so my losses were limited by the fact I had no real money to lose.
I read an article that parlay bets are where sportsbooks make their money. Couldnt find the article, but I remember it said they made a KILLING on parlay bets, and the only sport they actually saw losses on was MLB. Go figure its one of the sports I do the best at, despite knowing actually very little about.
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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CLIT
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: ManianFH]
#23613680 - 09/05/16 03:49 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Do casinos have Keno games?
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ManianFH
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: CLIT]
#23616764 - 09/06/16 01:12 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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of course. they have them all over the place.
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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Brian Jones
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: CLIT]
#23620709 - 09/07/16 04:30 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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I've heard Keno has bad odds (but my info is only based on the Mario Puzo Vegas novel, "Fools Die", an excellent read. The characters only messed around with Keno at the coffee shop in the morning, while eating breakfast before they went into the casino and got serious.
-------------------- "The Rolling Stones will break up over Brian Jones' dead body" John Lennon I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either. The worst thing about corruption is that it works so well,
Edited by Brian Jones (09/07/16 04:31 AM)
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ManianFH
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: Brian Jones]
#23631653 - 09/10/16 08:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago) |
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Its bad. According to Michael Shacklefords site, Wizard of Odds, the edge can get up into the ~25%, which is around some of the worst bets you could possibly make, return wise. If you are looking to play to earn a return of ~95% and up - and really you should be aiming for ~99-101%, stick to video poker.
That being said, having fun on a keno machine I have won $200 in the past.... but who knows how much I had put into them in my lifetime before hitting. I wouldnt play Keno in any serious fashion today without an expectation of some high value return (progressive payout, perhaps?)...
http://wizardofodds.com/games/keno/
-------------------- notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... " ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."
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CLIT
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: CLIT]
#23844913 - 11/18/16 10:54 AM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Atlantic City casinos have launched a "skill based" game so hopefully this time someone can beat the house without relying on luck, rather skills:
http://newjersey.news12.com/news/skill-based-video-game-gambling-machines-debut-in-harrah-s-casino-in-atlantic-city-1.12552454
What you guys think of this and will other casinos follow?
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ballsalsa
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: CLIT]
#23846974 - 11/18/16 10:16 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CLIT said: Atlantic City casinos have launched a "skill based" game so hopefully this time someone can beat the house without relying on luck, rather skills:
http://newjersey.news12.com/news/skill-based-video-game-gambling-machines-debut-in-harrah-s-casino-in-atlantic-city-1.12552454
What you guys think of this and will other casinos follow?
Its not really skill based. It apparently has 10000 maps of which some are easy and some are literally impossible, and it chooses from them based on a formula to provide 90% RTP just like a slot machine.
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Patlal
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Re: can someone beat the house with skills? [Re: CLIT]
#23849515 - 11/19/16 06:19 PM (7 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
CLIT said: I know it's rare. I've never been into a casino but was curious if the games in the casinos are "pure luck games" or some do require "skills"? There had to be a strategy to better the odds of winning. I would assume knowing how the games are played would help rather than going in to the casino to simply "gamble" rather than actually execute what needs to be done aka having a strategy of sort.
Casinos aren't like state lotteries, right?
Yes you can if you play poker. I've been beating the house and other players for 6 days in a row now.
Baccarat is the closest to 50/50 you can get.
If you find a 4 deck shoe for blackjack, you can count the cards. 8 decks (standard) is extremely hard to beat, but in the long run, you can do it.
Craps, Pai-gow, Carrabean poker, different forms of blackjack, war, dice, slots, roulette, keno, horse racing, etc... The house wins. Always.
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