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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: Apollyphelion]
    #23587000 - 08/28/16 01:43 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
I cant invalidate your identity. That is insecurity. I do believe the distinction between sex and gender is contrived. The surgery and treatment isnt really a treatment, but a terrible irresponsibe reaction by the medical community to a mental health problem, because we dont do a thing for these people. For conveniance, we normalize mental disorders. We call depression a mental disorder, but not wanting to have your genitals removed and be on cancer causing horones.

I realy dont see how I could be any more fair. It doesnt make me respect you less, you just percieve it as so. Im genuinely concerned for those that want surgeries that shouldnt even be acceptd by the medical community considering the high rate of regret and physical risks associated and not disclosed

estrogen is getting in all of your cells. If you get cancer, it will be in your bones and completely beyond medical intervention.





Gender Dysphoria is the disorder, and treatment is varying degrees of transistioning. Most girls don't get the surgery, and passing as a normal girl is usually when there is very little trace of any disorder. Most people don't regret it. Sure some do, but it is absolutely the exception. No medical procedure has 100% success rate, that I am aware of. Transistioning produces for the most part, happy campers.



Ya, offering irreverable elective surgery to mentally ill people who cant conset because they are mentlally ill is a 'treatment'

Its so disgustig and backwards.

no, they really arent happy generally. what a profoundly stupid statement.
The suicide ate is unchanged.

They arent transitioned, theyr are mutalated and betrayed by out culture that has become so lazy we decide to play pretend to get along with the mentally ill.


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OfflineShadeOfDeepPurple
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23587008 - 08/28/16 01:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Hmm, maybe(there isn't even a linked risk accepted by the medical field, most will agree that estrogen in mtf HRT is likely to increase risk of cancer, but it's not proven)cancer, or a bullet to the brain? Cancer, or suicide? Hmm, TOUGH call. :rolleyes:


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OfflineShadeOfDeepPurple
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23587016 - 08/28/16 01:51 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Quote:

Apollyphelion said:
Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
I cant invalidate your identity. That is insecurity. I do believe the distinction between sex and gender is contrived. The surgery and treatment isnt really a treatment, but a terrible irresponsibe reaction by the medical community to a mental health problem, because we dont do a thing for these people. For conveniance, we normalize mental disorders. We call depression a mental disorder, but not wanting to have your genitals removed and be on cancer causing horones.

I realy dont see how I could be any more fair. It doesnt make me respect you less, you just percieve it as so. Im genuinely concerned for those that want surgeries that shouldnt even be acceptd by the medical community considering the high rate of regret and physical risks associated and not disclosed

estrogen is getting in all of your cells. If you get cancer, it will be in your bones and completely beyond medical intervention.





Gender Dysphoria is the disorder, and treatment is varying degrees of transistioning. Most girls don't get the surgery, and passing as a normal girl is usually when there is very little trace of any disorder. Most people don't regret it. Sure some do, but it is absolutely the exception. No medical procedure has 100% success rate, that I am aware of. Transistioning produces for the most part, happy campers.



Ya, offering irreverable elective surgery to mentally ill people who cant conset because they are mentlally ill is a 'treatment'

Its so disgustig and backwards.

no, they really arent happy generally. what a profoundly stupid statement.
The suicide ate is unchanged.

They arent transitioned, theyr are mutalated and betrayed by out culture that has become so lazy we decide to play pretend to get along with the mentally ill.




This may just be my opinion, but I'm pretty sure I'm one of the sanest people on this entire forum.


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OfflineYthanA
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23587027 - 08/28/16 01:56 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Ya, offering irreverable elective surgery to mentally ill people who cant conset because they are mentlally ill is a 'treatment'

Its so disgustig and backwards.

no, they really arent happy generally. what a profoundly stupid statement.
The suicide ate is unchanged.

They arent transitioned, theyr are mutalated and betrayed by out culture that has become so lazy we decide to play pretend to get along with the mentally ill.



I'm genuinely curious, what kind of treatment would you recommend for transgendered individuals that you don't feel would involve body mutilation or societal betrayal? Also, so we can better judge your credentials vs. the authors of the DSM, would you be willing to take a moment and outline your background in mental health? I'm interested to learn about your point of view, and also why you feel qualified to speak on this matter and why people should give weight to your opinion.


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OfflinePartoftheSource
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: Ythan]
    #23587037 - 08/28/16 01:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

:shocked: And like a god in heaven Ythan steps down from the clouds.


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OfflineYthanA
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: PartoftheSource]
    #23587099 - 08/28/16 02:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Heh, now I'm just self-conscious. I really need a puppet account. :blush:

I kind of prefer to just ignore peoples' junk because I really don't think about it much unless I'm actively trying to bang them. But this seems to be the up-and-coming social issue of the day, so I'd like to at least engage with people on both sides and try to be educated about why it's such a big deal.


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OfflinePartoftheSource
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: Ythan]
    #23587108 - 08/28/16 02:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I think you, and every other lurker out there should actively post more often. I welcome it.
One of my favorite things about the Shroomery is the diversity.


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: PartoftheSource]
    #23587117 - 08/28/16 02:25 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

he dislikes me because I say things construed as racist and I made tickets when the mods treated me like shit for my opinions. Apparently attacking a group is the biggest liberal sin.
some person may get PTSD or something. I dont know

no, I dont have credentials. I dont see why I need them. what a pussy form of ad homonym.
Estrogen in the form of the birth control pill is known to cause cancer in women. It most likely does for men, since we are not made at the genetic level to handel that amount of estrogen.

I dont have to come up with an alternative to a treatment that leaves alot of people with regret over their mutilated genitals. Maybe therapy, maybe learn that sometimes god is a cunt. Not everything needs a medical intervention. I like western culture, but the way it handels mental illness is grossly irresponsible.
Its irreversable, all your chromosomes are still male, every cell in your body is still male(or female, as few f-m transitioners as there are)


playing pretend is not how you treat mental disorderd


sanity and insanity are legal terms. You can have a mental disorder and be functional.



Its just another form of body integrity disorder. Doctors refuse to chop of an arm, or a finger, for the mentally ill. This is far more consequential and we act like because it has something to do with sexual identity that it makes it less so

you know what comes up when I type sex change? The second option is regret


http://www.sexchangeregret.com


Edited by specialpeopleclub (08/28/16 02:26 PM)


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: specialpeopleclub] * 1
    #23587124 - 08/28/16 02:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Wow, that site is like, totally credible and obviously not propaganda :dawerp:


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: Ythan]
    #23587125 - 08/28/16 02:27 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ythan said:
about why it's such a big deal.



It is sensational.

Quote:

Ythan said:
I kind of prefer to just ignore peoples' junk because I really don't think about it much unless I'm actively trying to bang them.



Same here, but there are groups of people bent on telling everyone about their business, as if anyone reaaaaaalllly gives a flying fuck.


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #23587137 - 08/28/16 02:30 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
Wow, that site is like, totally credible and obviously not propaganda :dawerp:



Its so hard to imagine peole regret removing their genitals and having an ill working, shallow, off center vagina or a fake looking artisan moulded cock that needs an apparatus to get an erection would have regret?

Like I said, if you can do that people should be able to go get limbs removed.

that was just the first site that came up.


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InvisibleCalifornia
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23587143 - 08/28/16 02:33 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Quote:

Sophistic Radiance said:
Wow, that site is like, totally credible and obviously not propaganda :dawerp:



Its so hard to imagine peole regret removing their genitals and having an ill working, shallow, off center vagina or a fake looking artisan moulded cock that needs an apparatus to get an erection would have regret?

Like I said, if you can do that people should be able to go get limbs removed.






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OfflineYthanA
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23587168 - 08/28/16 02:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
he dislikes me because I say things construed as racist and I made tickets when the mods treated me like shit for my opinions. Apparently attacking a group is the biggest liberal sin.
some person may get PTSD or something. I dont know

no, I dont have credentials. I dont see why I need them. what a pussy form of ad homonym.
Estrogen in the form of the birth control pill is known to cause cancer in women. It most likely does for men, since we are not made at the genetic level to handel that amount of estrogen.

I dont have to come up with an alternative to a treatment that leaves alot of people with regret over their mutilated genitals. Maybe therapy, maybe learn that sometimes god is a cunt. Not everything needs a medical intervention. I like western culture, but the way it handels mental illness is grossly irresponsible.
Its irreversable, all your chromosomes are still male, every cell in your body is still male(or female, as few f-m transitioners as there are)


playing pretend is not how you treat mental disorderd


sanity and insanity are legal terms. You can have a mental disorder and be functional.



Its just another form of body integrity disorder. Doctors refuse to chop of an arm, or a finger, for the mentally ill. This is far more consequential and we act like because it has something to do with sexual identity that it makes it less so

you know what comes up when I type sex change? The second option is regret


http://www.sexchangeregret.com



I don't recognize your name, but since you mentioned it I took a look at the support tickets you filed. Amusing, but irrelevant to the discussion.

I've been a fan of Howard Stern for over two decades (although the show kind of went to shit after Artie left). I remember him making an interesting point, basically the same thing that you're saying. If you go to the doctor and say "doc, my hand is possessed, a demon controls it and it feels wrong and evil", what doctor in their right mind would suggest an amputation? It would be totally unheard of. I feel like this is somewhat analogous to the current situation.

But say there's no agreed-upon, effective treatment for "demon hand" syndrome. Numerous people with this condition are genuinely suffering every day, and medical science does not understand the reason why they feel this way. It could be social, it could be biological, it could be chemical... point is, there's a problem in need of a solution. If a consenting adult of sound mind really wants to get their hand chopped off to free themselves of the torment they're experiencing, and they've been made fully aware of all the implications, why shouldn't they be allowed to do so? It's their body, right? And whatever arguments you have against that procedure, how does that align with your (presumed) belief that people should be allowed to use mind-altering substances?


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: Ythan]
    #23587179 - 08/28/16 02:47 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Its most likely psychological in some way. The idea of having demon hand syndrome makes me question this persons sanity and ability to consent to such. Even if they could, maybe be creative, try to figure out a therapy, mabe look at drugs before physically mutalating or crippling someone.

I dont consider it a consentual act between adults. Their faculties are obviously impaired. we are all made of chemicals.
If its societal, there is something even more wrong going on in their mind


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OfflineYthanA
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23587201 - 08/28/16 02:52 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

So your position is that regardless of someone's lucidity or ability to demonstrate a rational thought process, if they experience gender dysphoria in any way, they are by definition mentally ill and incapable of consent in a legal sense? What specifically led you to this conclusion? Do you feel that anyone who deviates from societal norms should be labelled as mentally ill and restrained from making any life-changing decisions?


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: Ythan]
    #23587225 - 08/28/16 03:04 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Ythan said:
So your position is that regardless of someone's lucidity or ability to demonstrate a rational thought process, if they experience gender dysphoria in any way, they are by definition mentally ill and incapable of consent in a legal sense? What specifically led you to this conclusion? Do you feel that anyone who deviates from societal norms should be labelled as mentally ill and restrained from making any life-changing decisions?




I think someone who opts to have a procedure like we have today to alieviate their identity crisis sends u alot of warning signs.

There are people who seem lucid who are seriously ill. My old roommate ws fucked up, but he could trick people into thiking he had the emotions of a person and also cry real tears without bein sad

Im cautious about perceved sanity because of people like this.

If we had hypothetical technology of one hundred years in the future and could do all of this cleanly and have it be reversable, Id be more sympathetic. Doctors shouldnt be inverting penisis to encourage a delusions. You rent supposed to do that for other mental disorders


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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23587248 - 08/28/16 03:12 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

specialpeopleclub said:
Doctors shouldnt be inverting penisis to encourage a delusions.



Should doctors be enlarging ladies breasts in your opinion?


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Offlinespecialpeopleclub
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: California]
    #23587265 - 08/28/16 03:19 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Irrelavent, reversable, obvious biological inscentives

implants /=/ genital mutalation. yo know that isnt actually a vagina or cock, right?


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OfflineYthanA
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23587270 - 08/28/16 03:20 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Yeah that's definitely true. There's not a lot of precedent for making irreversible physical changes to handle mental issues. The ones we do have (like lobotomies) are viewed in retrospect as brutal and archaic. So you would say your position comes from a place of love and concern for people suffering from gender dysphoria? To me I feel like the most important thing is ensuring that people can live a life where they're happy, comfortable, and also they don't affect other people with their own personal decisions. Besides surgery or hormone therapy, do you have any thoughts about how people with gender dysphoria might best live with their condition? Obvious candidates like CBT and talk-therapy do not seem to offer any relief in controlled studies.


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OfflinePartoftheSource
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Re: Neutral Gender option for The Shroomery - Times are a changin' [Re: specialpeopleclub]
    #23587275 - 08/28/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Genital mutilation or inverted penises doesn't seem like a choice, but a final decision. Kind of like when you get tattoo you really regret later on in life, except there are no cover-ups when your penis is gone.


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