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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


Registered: 08/28/09
Posts: 82,455
Loc: Onypeirophóros
Last seen: 4 years, 1 month
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G]
#23567584 - 08/22/16 10:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: i do believe he is equating paying in to making accessible healthcare to people can't afford it available to them, with being equal in value (to himself), as your paying less for your insurance.
of course American medicine is better in technology. this is a fact. they have a rigorous standard in the medical profession.
that is not all that entails healthcare.
North America has some of the best medicine in the world, and best practitioners, in general.
Believe it or not socialist Cuba is also said to have excellent medicine. Quite many Cuban doctors lead conferences regarding their specialties.
A lot of people think American medicine is the best, but in fact quite many people travel back to their home countries to seek medical care for serious things.
The USA however, is publishing the most research. Probably our politics and allocation of grants have something to do with that.
yes, accurate, Crystal. our medicine is Advanced in tech and research and development. an American doctorate is considered quite valuable. but that doesn't discount other doctorates from other, even socialist, medicine.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: akira_akuma]
#23568073 - 08/23/16 03:00 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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I've been vocal about how shitty the system is right now several times in the past. All I can really say right now, is that it would be really nice to have access to doctors to treat what i have, therapy and all, medications for certain things. Life's not been great, and my situation is that of a self-perpetual cycle, with every bit feeding into the other.
the costs here are outrageous, and health insurance aside, there's just no reason why things should cost so much for anyone, period, whoever ends up paying the bill. what costs us thousands here costs hundreds or even less in other places. There's been a couple news articles lately of pharmaceutical companies jacking up the prices of medicines, while the same generic meds cost fractions in places like India.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G]
#23568088 - 08/23/16 03:23 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
akira_akuma said: i do believe he is equating paying in to making accessible healthcare to people can't afford it available to them, with being equal in value (to himself), as your paying less for your insurance.
of course American medicine is better in technology. this is a fact. they have a rigorous standard in the medical profession.
that is not all that entails healthcare.
North America has some of the best medicine in the world, and best practitioners, in general.
Believe it or not socialist Cuba is also said to have excellent medicine. Quite many Cuban doctors lead conferences regarding their specialties.
that's was Micheal Moore's false claim. Moore showed images of hospitals where medical tourists will travel to while he omitted the actual facts of medicine for cubans such as inducing abortions for potentially problematic pregnancies which alters the numbers for their infant mortality rates making their system look much better than it is
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 23 days
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: 404]
#23568089 - 08/23/16 03:24 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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It's unbelievable, but the #1 reason Americans file bankruptcy is because of healthcare costs.
I actually attempted to get PEP, which is an HIV medication. (I don't have HIV, but this medication can also prevent people from getting HIV, which is why I thought it would be cool to have it.)
Turns out my insurance at the time covered it, and I was having premium PPO insurance, and even then it was still $300. $300 was a lot for me to invest in a medication when I didn't have any risk of getting HIV at the time, so I passed on it. I didn't really need it.
But I did some digging and some research, and it turns out this medication is not covered under Medicare or government insurance type of programs, and out of pocket this medication costs $2,000 a month.
So people who have HIV, who are already mostly low-income and uninsured to begin with, have to pay $2K a month out of pocket, just to have a medication just to keep themselves alive.
It's pretty crazy if you think about it. It's actually just better to die than to live in poverty like that for the rest of your life, with no way to climb out of it.
Then there is my childhood friend who got ovarian cancer when she was only 9 years old. She had to have chemotherapy and everything. Back before Obamacare passed a law about denying coverage for pre-existing conditions, her family's insurance company denied coverage for her cancer treatment.
Her family ended up paying millions of dollars out of pocket to treat her operations and hospital stays, and this completely bankrupted them. And bear in mind her family was loaded before--her father was a Jewish corporate attorney, making approximately $10 million a year.
My family member works at a pharmacy. She says that she periodically has gotten cancer patients coming in paying $50,000 for brand-name cancer medications and shit like that.
Something has to be done about price-hiking medications and medical costs. This has to be made illegal. There's no reason a surgeon should be making $100 million a year. Hell, I've even heard of dentists--DENTISTS--making $10 million a year.
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 23 days
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23568090 - 08/23/16 03:25 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: that's was Micheal Moore's false claim. Moore showed images of hospitals where medical tourists will travel to while he omitted the actual facts of medicine for cubans such as inducing abortions for potentially problematic pregnancies which alters the numbers for their infant mortality rates making their system look much better than it is
Actually the person who told me about how great Cuba's medical system was, was a neurologist I was dating who worked at Jefferson University hospital. He informed me that Cuban doctors are actually leading quite many specialties and hold quite many conferences discussing new techniques on how to treat particular patients.
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G]
#23568096 - 08/23/16 03:32 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: that's was Micheal Moore's false claim. Moore showed images of hospitals where medical tourists will travel to while he omitted the actual facts of medicine for cubans such as inducing abortions for potentially problematic pregnancies which alters the numbers for their infant mortality rates making their system look much better than it is
Actually the person who told me about how great Cuba's medical system was, was a neurologist I was dating who worked at Jefferson University hospital. He informed me that Cuban doctors are actually leading quite many specialties and hold quite many conferences discussing new techniques on how to treat particular patients.
did he tell you that those cuban doctors had left cuba?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/world/americas/us-and-cuba-at-odds-over-exodus-of-the-islands-doctors.html?_r=0
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 23 days
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23568101 - 08/23/16 03:45 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: that's was Micheal Moore's false claim. Moore showed images of hospitals where medical tourists will travel to while he omitted the actual facts of medicine for cubans such as inducing abortions for potentially problematic pregnancies which alters the numbers for their infant mortality rates making their system look much better than it is
Actually the person who told me about how great Cuba's medical system was, was a neurologist I was dating who worked at Jefferson University hospital. He informed me that Cuban doctors are actually leading quite many specialties and hold quite many conferences discussing new techniques on how to treat particular patients.
did he tell you that those cuban doctors had left cuba?
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/world/americas/us-and-cuba-at-odds-over-exodus-of-the-islands-doctors.html?_r=0
No? He said he sometimes flew to Cuba to attend the conferences with other staff.
Your own link you sourced linked to this article stating: "Americans May See Appeal of Medical Tourism in Cuba"
With the following quote in the article
Quote:
Cuba made health care a priority after its 1959 revolution, and it has earned a reputation for providing good, mostly free care to its people. Thousands of Cuban doctors also work abroad, in Venezuela, Brazil and other developing countries, in an exchange that provides the government of President Raúl Castro with hard currency or goods, such as oil, in return.
David McBain, 47, a Toronto landscaper who fractured his spine in a car accident, went to Cuba three times last year for extensive physical therapy.
“The physiotherapists and the doctors are extremely knowledgeable and well trained in Cuba, and you just can’t beat the price,” Mr. McBain said. “The price is a fraction of what it would be in Canada or the U.S. for a therapist.”
Mr. McBain, who is partly paralyzed and uses a wheelchair, said he was treated for several weeks during each visit at a Havana facility. He said the treatment in Cuba cost about $200 a day, which includes about six hours of physical therapy daily, a comfortable room and board. Canada’s national health system does not provide for the type of therapy he needs, he said, and a private neurological physical therapist would charge about $93 an hour.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/18/world/americas/americans-may-see-appeal-of-medical-tourism-in-cuba.html
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Prisoner#1
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Registered: 01/22/03
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Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G]
#23568104 - 08/23/16 03:49 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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once again, it doesnt show shit regarding the treatment that the cubans get, it shows that medical tourism is great for cuba while their own people are neglected
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Crystal G



Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 19,584
Loc: outer space
Last seen: 8 months, 23 days
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23568115 - 08/23/16 04:04 AM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Prisoner#1 said: once again, it doesnt show shit regarding the treatment that the cubans get, it shows that medical tourism is great for cuba while their own people are neglected
AFAIK medical care in Cuba is basically free. But you have to pay for pharmaceuticals, which can be expensive for people who aren't making very much money.
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404
error


Registered: 08/20/10
Posts: 14,539
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G]
#23569095 - 08/23/16 01:02 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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There is medical tourism in other countries too. Flying to places like ecuador where the costs are far cheaper
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LobsterSauce


Registered: 11/09/08
Posts: 19,884
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: 404]
#23569107 - 08/23/16 01:08 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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A holiday and some treatment, all the while saving big bucks?
Uncle Sam wouldn't like it, but would you?
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Patlal
You ask too many questions


Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,805
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: LobsterSauce] 2
#23569219 - 08/23/16 01:45 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Anyone else keep expecting to see a Zappa post in these kind of threads?
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Patlal
You ask too many questions


Registered: 10/09/10
Posts: 44,805
Loc: Ottawa
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Prisoner#1]
#23569271 - 08/23/16 01:57 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
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Asante said: I pay approximately $150 each month for my healthcare. For each year I have $420 in Own Risk, which will be used up for your first needs. (which I use up)
So, I pay $2222 each year in health care. If you are a millionaire, you pay the exact same. Your income does not matter. Everybody pays $2222 a year.
how about telling us what the actual cost is, in order for you to have the discounted health care which according to your $2222 number was $185/month then a sum has to come out of taxes, now let's assume you work, what percentage of your pay goes to cover that healthcare
now check this out, I used to pay $327/ month in insurance, I know, it seems like a lot but that covered 3 people on a premium policy through my employer, that came out to 109/month per person and only having to pay a $20 co-pay each time I actually went to a doctor, I did that twice
my total annual pay out for insurance was just under $4000 to cover 3 people, under your netherlander policy it seems it would be $6666 for the same coverage but now everyone on the planet feels the need to add their two cents american politics and the people in the US get screwed. because under obamacare my insurance would cost me $12k/year so kindly fuck off with your socializerd horse shit since I can no longer afford health insurance thanks to you socialist fucks
And how many thousands of dollars did you need to cover your deductible?
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specialpeopleclub



Registered: 04/10/14
Posts: 5,584
Loc: Mitten
Last seen: 3 years, 8 months
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Patlal]
#23569301 - 08/23/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said: Anyone else keep expecting to see a Zappa post in these kind of threads?
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Crystal G]
#23569369 - 08/23/16 02:39 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Crystal G said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said: once again, it doesnt show shit regarding the treatment that the cubans get, it shows that medical tourism is great for cuba while their own people are neglected
AFAIK medical care in Cuba is basically free. But you have to pay for pharmaceuticals, which can be expensive for people who aren't making very much money.
not for medical tourists which is why they get premium treatment
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Prisoner#1
Even Dumber ThanAdvertized!


Registered: 01/22/03
Posts: 193,665
Loc: Pvt. Pubfag NutSuck
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Re: An Example of "Socialist Healthcare" [Re: Patlal]
#23569372 - 08/23/16 02:40 PM (7 years, 5 months ago) |
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Quote:
Patlal said:
Quote:
Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:
Asante said: I pay approximately $150 each month for my healthcare. For each year I have $420 in Own Risk, which will be used up for your first needs. (which I use up)
So, I pay $2222 each year in health care. If you are a millionaire, you pay the exact same. Your income does not matter. Everybody pays $2222 a year.
how about telling us what the actual cost is, in order for you to have the discounted health care which according to your $2222 number was $185/month then a sum has to come out of taxes, now let's assume you work, what percentage of your pay goes to cover that healthcare
now check this out, I used to pay $327/ month in insurance, I know, it seems like a lot but that covered 3 people on a premium policy through my employer, that came out to 109/month per person and only having to pay a $20 co-pay each time I actually went to a doctor, I did that twice
my total annual pay out for insurance was just under $4000 to cover 3 people, under your netherlander policy it seems it would be $6666 for the same coverage but now everyone on the planet feels the need to add their two cents american politics and the people in the US get screwed. because under obamacare my insurance would cost me $12k/year so kindly fuck off with your socializerd horse shit since I can no longer afford health insurance thanks to you socialist fucks
And how many thousands of dollars did you need to cover your deductible?
there was no deductible. it was a copay. $20 no matter what
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