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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Rejection [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23577895 - 08/25/16 10:16 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I was using it as example in my reply to CS. Apologies for the confusion.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
Random Observer
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Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
Re: Rejection [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23577920 - 08/25/16 10:23 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

You said...

Quote:


I just can't help but feel, you have no concept of what is achievable in this life





...after quoting my post.  This made it very easy to interpret "You" as a reference to me.  I don't know why you would use a quote by me to explain why you think another person has no concept of something.

Anyways I can tell this is a pretty useless conversation so I'll end it at that.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 6,016
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Last seen: 15 hours, 31 minutes
Re: Rejection [Re: Celestial Traveler] * 1
    #23578290 - 08/26/16 01:07 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:

I just think that some of the things mentioned by OP resemble detachment . . .




Attachment to our thoughts creates various types of neurosis, such as anxiety and depression.
Non-attachment doesn't mean one isn't engaged. Quite the opposite. When we become non-attached
we can then fully and intimately engage with others, without pretense, motives, or judgments.

In the Bible, the famous 23rd Psalm encourages non-attachment to desire... "Thou shall not want."
In Christian faith, agape love is unconditional compassion that's detached from selfish feelings.
The New Testament is full of references to non-attachment. Many consider Christ's crucifixion symbolic
of non-attachment to the ego (death of self). When Jesus said "Take up the cross and follow me",
he was promoting non-attachment. The Apostle Paul spoke a lot about the importance of dying to self.

Non-attachment is sometimes called "a state of being unstained by thought". When we look deeply into
our suffering, we find thoughts. All disturbing emotions arise from thoughts, and non-attachment is
a method of separating our self from our thoughts, so we are not harmed by them. Thought's aren't "bad",
but our attachment to them causes suffering, for example, as we can witness as we read suicide notes.

Of course our ego is totally disgusted and repulsed by these ideas.    It wants to keep it's job.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: Rejection [Re: bloodsheen] * 1
    #23578358 - 08/26/16 01:40 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

bloodsheen said:

My anger is only because I've been hearing this rhetoric a lot on the shroomery lately it seems.

So what if your whole family died? Life is a transient thing, you have to accept what you cannot control, blah blah blah




I'm tempted to feel guilty for spreading some of this "rhetoric" but instead I will
detach myself from this thought and just let it sail by, like a cloud in the sky.

Many people believe Eastern philosophy is an escape from reality. But to look inward
is far from an escape. The source of our misery is not life. It comes from within.

As the ancient phrase goes "You are your own worst enemy"

Jesus said, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.”
Luke 23:34

You are your own worst enemy.
Proverbs 29:24


blah  blah  blah


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Rejection [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23578479 - 08/26/16 03:31 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:
...after quoting my post.  This made it very easy to interpret "You" as a reference to me.  I don't know why you would use a quote by me to explain why you think another person has no concept of something.

Anyways I can tell this is a pretty useless conversation so I'll end it at that.



I do apologise for the confusion man. I've debated this kinda thing for years and it was late last night and I was tired, and I can see from your mindset about the whole thing, contrasted with my own, that we would just go round in circular arguments if we open this up for discussion. I know from past interactions that CS is far more open to such things, as evidenced above.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Rejection [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23578487 - 08/26/16 03:35 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Of course our ego is totally disgusted and repulsed by these ideas. It wants to keep it's job.



QFT man.


Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
As the ancient phrase goes "You are your own worst enemy"



I wonder if you're thinking of this one;

Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own thoughts, unguarded. But once mastered no one cannot help you as much, not even your father or mother.
--Buddha

As my understanding of my human condition deepens, this seems more and more apt to frequently remind myself of.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
Re: Rejection [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23579124 - 08/26/16 09:34 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:
I know from past interactions that CS is far more open to such things, as evidenced above.




There's not really evidence about anything since you won't discuss it with me, instead just assuming that other people are so close-minded that they won't give consideration to what you have to say.  That makes you seem close-minded yourself and somewhat patronizing.


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
Re: Rejection [Re: RJ Tubs 202]
    #23579144 - 08/26/16 09:43 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

RJ Tubs 202 said:
Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:

I just think that some of the things mentioned by OP resemble detachment . . .




Attachment to our thoughts creates various types of neurosis, such as anxiety and depression.
Non-attachment doesn't mean one isn't engaged. Quite the opposite. When we become non-attached
we can then fully and intimately engage with others, without pretense, motives, or judgments.
.




I have had similar realizations before under the influence of drugs, but under a sober state it is hard to achieve a complete separation from your thoughts (unless you want to say that such a thing is achievable through meditation, but that would take lots of practice even if it were possible).

I didn't try to say that attachment is desirable, but that it's human and natural, and that many who think they're detached are still attached but in-denial deep down.  I think it's especially hard to become detached from human relationships because those are usually the foundation to one's life.


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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Rejection [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23579512 - 08/26/16 11:18 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:
Lastly, I think that people who claim to have found happiness within themselves are often in-denial and are lying to themselves. They might feel "at peace" but being at peace does not equate to fulfillment.




Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:
many who think they're detached are still attached but in-denial deep down.




.........

Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:
That makes you seem close-minded yourself and somewhat patronizing.




Pot calling the kettle black huh? The beliefs you have stated above are why I have no intention of spending what little free time I have engaged in circular arguments. I've been there before, many, many times. If you were to display a smidgen more open-mindedness than comes through in your posts, I would happily discuss it with you, but I have to use my time as best as I see fit. This is not a judgement call on your character, I've been round the houses in what I believe in my life and you are, and will progress to, where you see fit.

This is a judgement call as to how I spend my time, and I have apologised numerous times. If you wish to remain disgruntled about this, that's your call.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
Re: Rejection [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23580548 - 08/26/16 03:41 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I'm not disgruntled about it, I just like to call people out to fully explain themselves when I feel there's holes in their reasoning.

In addition to talking about detachment from personal relationships, you made reference to this:
Quote:


I just can't help but feel, you have no concept of what is achievable in this life. The lessons to teach us how to live as ideally as we can in this human realm have existed for 2,500+ years. Yet we're so fucking distracted from what we're capable of, for reasons so beyond fucking obvious I cannot bring myself to express them.





I would be open-minded and curious enough to hear you elaborate on what this deep knowledge is that I'm missing.  If you would be kind enough to tell me of course, and if said knowledge actually exists in the first place.


But alas, as you've said many times before, this argument is over, so there's no need for you to reply further unless you feel the need to prove something.


--------------------
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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Rejection [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23580580 - 08/26/16 03:46 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

And that's the thing man, YOU feel there are holes in my reasoning, I do not. Nor do I feel there are holes in your reasoning. I accept you exactly as you are.

We're both at very different stages of development is all. I once felt exactly as you seem to. But many experiences in the years since have blown my head off to the point that my inner skeptic has fuck all left to stand on. And believe you me, there was a time where I was one of the most skeptical people I've ever known.

I can't properly convey the enormity and life-changing effects of these experiences to you (if I could I would). I can only hope that you have similar experiences yourself.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleCelestial Traveler
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Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 7,639
Loc: Idaho
Re: Rejection [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23580634 - 08/26/16 03:58 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

I'm sorry but I think I'm going to stop replying now, because I've found nothing that you've said on this entire thread to have any value whatsoever.  I don't say that out of anger or disgrunted-ness but out of blunt honesty. 

Basically you've said is that there are things I don't understand, and that you won't tell what they are because I'm not open-minded enough to give them consideration, which comes off as a stalling tactic to cover up the fact that you don't actually know anything, and also a potential attempt at passive-aggressive condescension. 

But anyways it doesn't matter, because interacting you is not worth either of our time, but especially my time.  Anyways good luck.


--------------------
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InvisibleJokeshopbeard
Humble Student

Registered: 11/30/11
Posts: 26,088
Loc: Deep in the system Flag
Re: Rejection [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23580695 - 08/26/16 04:09 PM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Like I said man, sometimes it's just best to agree to disagree.


--------------------
Let it be seen that you are nothing. And in knowing that you are nothing... there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to gain. What can happen to you? Something can happen to the body, but it will either heal or it won't. What's the big deal? Let life knock you to bits. Let life take you apart. Let life destroy you. It will only destroy what you are not.
--Jac O'keeffe


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InvisibleLunarEclipse
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Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
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Re: Rejection [Re: Chakra Shock]
    #23585717 - 08/28/16 01:47 AM (7 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Chakra Shock said:
Another problem with sadness and anger is that they tend to give rise to negative reactions instead of positive action.

However, I feel what Bloodsheen says as well. Ideals are great to strive for, but the place to start with that is the present moment, and in this present moment there are few if any of us who are impervious to feeling sadness or anger.

For example, I recently got jilted in a bad way, like ignored for about a week straight, finally made plans, had to remake those plans, then on the day that those plans were meant to take place ( discussed pretty specifically and confirmed ) I was ignored all day like I'm not even a real human being. Does that piss me off? Yes, indeed it does. Do I want to act out of anger? No, because it will only cause more pain.

So what I'm doing is recognizing my feelings, knowing that there is sadness, anger, disappointment, but I'm just letting them pass through me. I'm not going to do anything to exacerbate them, and I'll just chill out and take it easy until I've got my feet back on the ground. Once I'm clear and calm, I'll make a decision on what to do next.


Rejection is just tough because it's a long term predicament. Once the initial feelings have resided, though, it's best to not linger on them and accept reality as it is and let it go.




It sounds exactly like my so called friend did to me a while back.  I really needed his help, we agreed he would, I rented a moving van and drove 700 miles thinking he would be there for me.  No, he just ignored me all day then claimed later he had a surfers ear ache whatever the fuck that is.

Well, I've never forgotten that episode, and it destroyed any chance of ever trusting this person again.  I still pretend to be his friend, but to me a friend is someone that you can trust, not know will pimp you in time of need.

So my advice would be to choose your friends wisely, and you won't be "rejected".  After all, who can really reject you but you?  You put yourself in a vulnerable position, you got what you deserved.  Don't open up to pimps and that won't happen...


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


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OfflineNolan92
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Re: Rejection [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23589016 - 08/29/16 02:55 AM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I hate this shit it has already ruined a friendship I had with a girl once because she started getting all flirty with me and I did not make a move. I guess she felt I rejected her and after that she became kind of cold to me.

Now theres this other girl who has become a really good friend of mine.

Shes very pretty (evreyone wants her), well last night we went out together and when we were alone together she told me that she was looking to pull (Irish term for sex or just making out) and she started telling me what are the things she finds sexy, she then asked me if I'm into blondes (She is blonde) and asked me If I'm into her.

I hope me not making a move makes her feel rejected, we have a great thing goinh on.

I guess I'm not sexually aggressive since I started my sex life with prostitutes, at 19 I was calling whores and going to Chinese massage parlors like 3 times a week.


--------------------
"be a child, never be an adult al the problems of the world are made by the adults."

"If a child feels like laughing he just laughs and it doesn't matter for him if others know why he laughs or not."

By Rael


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Offlinebloodsheen
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Re: Rejection [Re: Nolan92]
    #23590797 - 08/29/16 05:00 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Nolan92 said:
I hate this shit it has already ruined a friendship I had with a girl once because she started getting all flirty with me and I did not make a move. I guess she felt I rejected her and after that she became kind of cold to me.

Now theres this other girl who has become a really good friend of mine.

Shes very pretty (evreyone wants her), well last night we went out together and when we were alone together she told me that she was looking to pull (Irish term for sex or just making out) and she started telling me what are the things she finds sexy, she then asked me if I'm into blondes (She is blonde) and asked me If I'm into her.

I hope me not making a move makes her feel rejected, we have a great thing goinh on.

I guess I'm not sexually aggressive since I started my sex life with prostitutes, at 19 I was calling whores and going to Chinese massage parlors like 3 times a week.



Holy shit dude... uh yea man, pretty sure she felt rejected, she fucking threw herself at you!

Its so funny, I was just talking to a guy at work about this. I don't know how to get a first date. I overthink it and end up saying weird stupid things to girls. Plus I'm not very attractive, which isn't everything but its a nice ice breaker. But like, once you're on a date and having a great time and being flirty, I can't WAIT to start being physical with her. It takes serious control to keep my hands to myself once I realize shes into me. Apparently I'm in the minority from what I've read in forums and in talking to people.

I don't get it, just slowly but confidently... do something. Like pretty much anything, even just putting your fingers in her hair and touching the side of her face or something. It won't take her more than half a second to figure out whats going on, who cares about a half-second of "Hey, woah..."

What I can't believe are people who have the fucking balls to go after someone based on almost nothing. Like picking up a girl at the beach, how the fuck do guys manage that? You're just walking around, see a hot girl, and 6 hours later you're fucking her brains out. Insanity, the fucking balls you have to have to even try something like that, THEN to have all the coolness to back it up... Just nuts


--------------------


A cautious young fellow named Lodge / Had seat belts installed in his Dodge. / When his date was strapped in / He committed a sin / Without even leaving the garage. That's clever, isn't it?-A boy and his dog


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OfflineChakra Shock
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Re: Rejection [Re: bloodsheen]
    #23590983 - 08/29/16 05:53 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

I think approaching people in public comes down to someone's state of mind, and there are a few different approaches which I've noticed.

These apply for women as well, it's just that men are sort of burdened by nature and nurture with the 'duty' of initiating contact:

There's the overconfident, strong-headed guy who will approach women simply because he feels like that's what he's expected to do, or has to do to in order to find someone to fool around with.

Then there's the smooth talker, the one who can strike up witty conversations and grab someone's attention with words.

And then there are the romantics, the ones who simply can't help themselves, they work primarily off of inspiration.


None of these approaches are necessarily right or wrong, but the underlying energy of your mind and thoughts, translating into emotion, will significantly impact whether or not you're doing something worthwhile or good by approaching strangers in a casual, social way. It helps for me to 'unask the question' on the sexualization of women and focus instead on innocence. This approach is certainly not optimal for finding as many partners as you can handle, but it has been a bridge into relationships and positive interaction.

As far as flirting in a public place goes, though, I think that's a kind of aggressive attitude which is really only acceptable once there has been some kind of confirmation from the other person that flirting and promiscuity is at least on the table. The cues of sexuality can be really subtle, so it's best to make a blatant display of your intention. Not so blatant that it makes them feel uncomfortable or embarrassed, but a simple gesture or phrase that implies the question: "do you want to flirt with me?" is a good place to start before actually flirting. It could even be a look in your eyes, a certain straightforwardness with your smile, or saying something about appearances. Just read their body language and expression after that, and if they seem closed off or uncomfortable, then stop right there and either move along or invite a change to the tone of your conversation!

Interesting stuff... takes a lot of confidence and courage to put yourself out there like that.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
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Re: Rejection [Re: Jokeshopbeard]
    #23591054 - 08/29/16 06:11 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Jokeshopbeard said:

Your worst enemy cannot harm you as much as your own thoughts, unguarded. But once mastered no one cannot help you as much, not even your father or mother.
--Buddha





I'm tempted to feel uncool because I didn't know what "QFT" meant and had to look it up  :smile:

There are numerous versions of the concept. That's a great quote!

Consider how we commonly define ourselves by our history and by our experiences. We all proclaim,
"I've been though a lot" as if our past determines who we are. We all have a "story" that we think
defines us. Our story is our version of reality. It the ego's way of creating self-identification. But are
we really our "story"? Who would we be without our story? So much of our thinking is about our story.
We damn people who wronged us. We justify and validate ourselves, as we replay the fantasy.

We often live in a dream like trance. Lost in the wilderness of the mind.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

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Re: Rejection [Re: Celestial Traveler]
    #23591095 - 08/29/16 06:20 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

Celestial Traveler said:

I have had similar realizations before under the influence of drugs, but under a sober state it is hard to achieve a complete separation from your thoughts (unless you want to say that such a thing is achievable through meditation, but that would take lots of practice even if it were possible).




I'm only talking about non-attachment to thoughts. Not people.

It takes as much effort to notice our thoughts as watching the clouds drift by.

It's not necessary to meditate to be mindful of our thoughts. A kid can do it.
Mindfulness is used to treat children who suffer from anxiety, autism, and depression.

It's simply a way to learn about reactivity. The thoughts that create our emotional disturbances.


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OfflineRJ Tubs 202
Male

Registered: 09/20/08
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Re: Rejection [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #23591130 - 08/29/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

LunarEclipse said:

Well, I've never forgotten that episode, and it destroyed any chance of ever trusting this person again.  I still pretend to be his friend, but to me a friend is someone that you can trust . . .




We all let our friends and loved ones down at some point.

To become bitter about others not living up to our expectations is the road to hell.

Have you never let a friend down and didn't come thru for them?


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