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Offlinedesant
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Fluoride in my favourite beer!!
    #23565532 - 08/22/16 10:22 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Guinness is my favourite beer

Until now it never crossed my mind

But I checked and found out that Ireland heavily fluoredates its water

Guinness is produced in Dublin

http://fluoridealert.org/news/guinness-gives-you-fluoride/

And Dublin is heavily fluoridated

No more Guinness for me

I'm gonna go to the store and buy some good cheap Scottish Ale
They do not add fluoride to water in Scotland


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Invisiblevandago
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant] * 2
    #23565540 - 08/22/16 10:28 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Guinness is bleh.

There's way way way better stouts out there.

Look at this as the world of beer shutting a door and opening a thousand windows.

I too was once fooled by guinesses soapy frothy bleh.  I've never looked back.  It had nothing to do with fluoride though. 

Left Hand milk stout, and youngs double chocolate stout were the first two stouts to make me realize guinness is crap.



This stuff is delicious:


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Invisiblevandago
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23565546 - 08/22/16 10:30 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

If you mix the above beer with a really good raspberry lambic you'd shit your drunk tits.

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Offlinedesant
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago] * 1
    #23565548 - 08/22/16 10:31 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Stout huh? I think they have some in waitrose...

The thing is beer bought in shops is not nearly as good as from a tap in a bar, or am I wrong?


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OfflineEverything
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant]
    #23565550 - 08/22/16 10:32 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

for some reason i've never considered this.

oh, it is probably because i live OR and we do not add flouride to our water supply. We have a lot of micro brews, usually very hoppy, basically a plethora of local options like Ninkasi, Hop Valley, Oakshire Brewery, Fort Gorge, Deschutes... all highly recommend :thumbup:

I wonder if they sell in other Countries.

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Offlinedesant
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23565552 - 08/22/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

vandago said:
If you mix the above beer with a really good raspberry lambic you'd shit your drunk tits.




:datass:


What's lambic, do they sell it in UK?


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant] * 2
    #23565553 - 08/22/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Guinness is shit, but you'll be okay. I hope you understand fluoridation isn't hurting you.
Beer on tap is better, yes, but a good beer is still good out of a bottle.

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Invisiblevandago
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant]
    #23565554 - 08/22/16 10:33 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

desant said:
Stout huh? I think they have some in waitrose...

The thing is beer bought in shops is not nearly as good as from a tap in a bar, or am I wrong?





Guinness is a stout.  It's like the budweiser of stouts though.

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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Everything]
    #23565557 - 08/22/16 10:34 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Everything said:
for some reason i've never considered this.

oh, it is probably because i live OR and we do not add flouride to our water supply. We have a lot of micro brews, usually very hoppy, basically a plethora of local options like Ninkasi, Hop Valley, Oakshire Brewery, Fort Gorge, Deschutes... all highly recommend :thumbup:

I wonder if they sell in other Countries.





Doubtful. Ninkasi and Deschutes barely even see interstate distribution without resorting to online speciality retailers.

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OfflineEverything
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago] * 1
    #23565559 - 08/22/16 10:34 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

vandago said:
Guinness is bleh.

There's way way way better stouts out there.

Look at this as the world of beer shutting a door and opening a thousand windows.

I too was once fooled by guinesses soapy frothy bleh.  I've never looked back.  It had nothing to do with fluoride though. 

Left Hand milk stout, and youngs double chocolate stout were the first two stouts to make me realize guinness is crap.



This stuff is delicious:






wow that made me want to go out and buy beer and start drinking. its lile 9:33 in the morning!

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant]
    #23565561 - 08/22/16 10:35 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Most beer is fluoridated . An exception is Heineken.


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Invisiblevandago
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant]
    #23565563 - 08/22/16 10:36 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

desant said:
Quote:

vandago said:
If you mix the above beer with a really good raspberry lambic you'd shit your drunk tits.




:datass:


What's lambic, do they sell it in UK?





There's many lambic beers in the UK.  You'd have to just hit a good selection beer store to find one.  They are typically on the weaker side, but some of the tastiest beers IMO.  I just really love sours.

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Offlinedesant
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23565564 - 08/22/16 10:37 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Most beer is fluoridated . An exception is Heineken.





Most beer is brewed straight from towns drinking water supply, unless they filter it... Lots of countries banned fluoridation... Scotland, France...  and many more


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OfflineEverything
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: something super extreme]
    #23565568 - 08/22/16 10:38 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Ninkasi oatis's are pretty bomb.

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Invisiblevandago
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23565569 - 08/22/16 10:38 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
Most beer is fluoridated . An exception is Heineken.




There's plenty that aren't.

"he Approved List from Beers Without Fluoride (Updated October 6, 2015)

So far, Beers Without Fluoride has officially awarded these brews the "A" (Acceptable) rating for being brewed with water that has not been treated with fluoride. This list is a growing and living thing and may not be totally up to date. Brewers change locations. BWF solicits any and all corrections of this list. which is far from complete. I welcome your input. Remember you can use your own ingenium to discern whether a beer is unfluoridated or not by using the tools supplied at Beers Without Fluoride's Facebook page.

I have promised in the past to publish the "F" list of fluoridated beers. However, that would consume way too much of my time. So many fine beers are destroyed by fluoridated water that I can't keep up.
Therefore I shall keep updating this "Approved" list quarterly (I hope.).

International Beers

All beers from the following countries are rated "A" due to the fact that water is not fluoridated.
Note: These are not the only countries in the world that do not fluoridate. However they do export beer and BWF recognizes them with the A rating. Be careful when buying some beers with imported names in the USA. They may be brewed in the USA under contract or otherwise and fluoridated water may be used: Beck's is a case in point. Read the label closely.

Belgium
Mexico (There are some high natural fluoride sources such as in Mexico City.)
China
Israel
Austria
Czech Republic (Yes, drink that Pilsner Urquell to your heart's content. Rated A.)
Croatia
Denmark
Estonia
Finland (Some areas have a high natural fluoride water content.)
France
Germany
Greece
Hungary
Latvia
Netherlands
Italy
Norway
Sweden

Germany
Any beer brewed in Germany is fluoride free including Oettinger, Krombacher, Bitburger, Beck's (not the one sold in the USA), Warsteiner, Hasseroder, Veltins, Paulaner, Radeberger and Erdinger. All are rated A.
Beware of Beck's sold in the United States. It is brewed in fluoridated St. Louis by Budweiser. Not only that, but Beck's brewed in the USA does not taste much like German Beck's.
Those who wish to drink a true organic beer brewed with clean water may want to try the great Pinkus Brewery offerings from unfluoridated Germany.

Netherlands
All Dutch beers including Heineken and Grolsch are rated A.

Italy
All Italian beers are rated "A" including Peroni and Moretti, the two most common Italian beers you will find in the USA.

Belgium
All the fine brews of fluoride free Belgium are rated A.
The most commonly seen in the United States are Stella Artois (brewed by Anheuser-Busch InBev headquartered in Belgium), Duvel, Bières de Chimay Trappist products, Hoegaarden (a hefeweizen also brewed by Anheuser-Busch InBev which I have seen available lately in my local Cornish, Maine market) and the Lindemans Lambic style brews.

Mexico
Any beer brewed in Mexico has been brewed with water untainted by added fluoride mostly by two huge brewers.
Grupo Modelo (50% owned by Anheuser-Busch InBev) sells a lot of Corona and Modelo and Pacifico beer in the United States. Note: Corona and Modelo from Mexico City both have a high natural fluoride content in the water used for brewing. Let the drinker decide.
FEMSA (Cervecería Cuauhtémoc-Moctezuma)) exports Tecate, Sol, Dos Equis, Carta Blanca, and the wonderful Bohemia, among others to the United States.
There are few microbrews coming out of Mexico and all are rated "A" by Beers Without Fluoride.

Denmark
All beers, such as Tuborg, brewed in never-fluoridated Denmark are rated "A" by BWF.

"A" Rated Beers from the United States
---------------------------------------------------
Sierra Nevada beers whether brewed in Chico,California or Asheville, North Carolina.
Red Stripe Beer for the American market is now brewed in unfluoridated Latrobe, Pa., though the brew does not taste much like the Jamaica brewed version.
Rolling Rock Beer is now brewed in Newark, New Jersey which is unfluoridated but I cannot vouch for any other chemicals which may be found in this water.
Ten Barrel Brewing Company from Bend, Oregon, now owned by Anheuser-Busch InBev and therefore a bit more available due to better distribution.
Any brew from Fort Bragg Brewing Company in Fort Bragg, California.
If you are ever in Albuquerque, New Mexico you can safely drink in any brewpub confident in the knowledge that they are rated A in this unfluoridated city.
Spencer Trappist Ale brewed in Spencer, Massachusetts with well water is rated A if you can find it and afford it. It is very good.

Beers from Full Sail Brewing in Fort Hood, Oregon. The Session Lager is a fine summer beer.
All the fine brews from Spoetzl Brewing in Shiner, Texas. I have tasted the Shiner Bock brewed from the brewery's own artesian well and it is quite good and I have found it in Maine.
All of the brews from Lagunitas Brewing Company brewed in unfluoridated Petaluma, California.
Please note that Lagunitas has a brewery in fluoridated Chicago, Illinois. Beers brewed in Chicago are rated F. Illinois has mandatory fluoridation. Unless a brewery uses spring or well water or purifies the public water with reverse osmosis we must rate that beer F.
All products from the Leinenkugel Brewery in Chippewa Falls, WI.
Bear Creek Brews from North Carolina.
Indian Wells Brewing Company in California.
Abita beers brewed in Abita Springs, Louisiana.
Dogfish Head ales brewed in from well water in Rehoboth Beach, Delaware.
All the fine brews from Butte Creek Brewing in Ukiah, California.
Hangar 24 Craft Brewery of Redlands, California.
Fredericksburg Brewing Company in fluoridated Fredericksburg, Texas uses reverse osmosis which removes fluoride. FBC is rated A.
Jester King in fluoridated Austin uses reverse osmosis or rainwater for brewing and is rated A.
Kaktus Brewery in unfluoridated Bernalillo, New Mexico also uses reverse osmosis and is rated A.
Triton Brewing Company in fluoridated Indianapolis, Indiana uses reverse osmosis and is rated A.
Horseshoe Bend Brewing in Lake Ozark, Missouri is rated A for using unfluoridated water source and the reverse osmosis process.
There are other brewers which use reverse osmosis to a degree but it is difficult to determine which of their offerings or how much of their water is so treated.

--------------------------------
New Hampshire A Rated Beers
Anheuser-Busch - Merrimack (Bud from St. Louis is rated "F")
Agner & Wolf - Nashua
Blue Lobster Brewing Company - Hampton
Border Brewery - Salem
Canterbury Ale Works - Canterbury
Henniker Brewing Company
The Prodigal Brewery - Effingham
Squam Brewing - Holderness
Tuckerman Brewing Company - Conway
Smuttynose Brewery, Hampton, NH.
All the tasty beers from Moat Mountain Brewing in North Conway, New Hampshire.
--------------------

Maine Beers.
If you are in Maine you might find products on tap from Gneiss (pronounced Nice) Brewing Company. Drink Gneiss in good conscience, it is rated A and uses well water to brew its fine offerings.
Oak Pond Brewing Company in Skowhegan uses well water and is rated A.
Bigelow Brewing Company in unfluoridated Skowhegan is rated A.
Boothbay Craft Brewery in unfluoridated Boothbay is acceptable.
Oxbow Beer brewed in Newcastle is rated A. Oxbow has a tasting room in Portland which serves the Newcastle beer.
All of those great Portland, Lewiston & Bangor beers (and most of you know who they are) are rated F, unfortunately.

---------------------------------------
Vermont Beers
Hill's Farmstead from Vermont is rated A.
Heady Topper from the Alchemist Brewery in Vermont is rated A if you can find it.
All of the Long Trail brews from Bridgewater, Vermont.

Organic Beer Addendum
There are several brewers out there who label their beers as "Organic." That may be true as far as the ingredients they use to brew, but the biggest ingredient in any beer is the water. Many so-called organic brewers use fluoridated water. Here are some of them:
Eel River Brewing in Scotia, California
Wolaver's from Middlebury, Vermont
Peak Organic brewed at the Shipyard Brewery in Portland, Maine
All the above are rated F by BWF

That's the update. Please let me know if there are any errors so they may be corrected."

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Offlinetimelapses
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant]
    #23565657 - 08/22/16 11:17 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Never thought of that.  I love Guinness Stout and it seems like that last place they would fluoridate water is Ireland.  Fucking globalism.


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InvisibleLobsterSauceDiscord
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: timelapses] * 2
    #23565690 - 08/22/16 11:25 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Can you feel your pineal glad quiver upon the intake of fluoride?

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Everything] * 1
    #23565766 - 08/22/16 11:50 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Everything said:
for some reason i've never considered this.

oh, it is probably because i live OR and we do not add flouride to our water supply. We have a lot of micro brews, usually very hoppy, basically a plethora of local options like Ninkasi, Hop Valley, Oakshire Brewery, Fort Gorge, Deschutes... all highly recommend :thumbup:

I wonder if they sell in other Countries.




Oregon has high levels of natural fluoride. If you don't like fluoride, I would stay away from anything made with natural spring water in Oregon.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: koods] * 2
    #23565771 - 08/22/16 11:51 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

FLUORIDE!!!!!!!!!!!!!


¡¡¡¡¡IS SO SCARY!!!!!

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OfflineVriska Serket
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: koods] * 1
    #23565774 - 08/22/16 11:51 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

tinfoil


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the queen of shitposting

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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: LobsterSauce] * 2
    #23565782 - 08/22/16 11:53 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Lambics are absolutely delicious.  Probably the tastiest fermented  beverage.

They also do mix great with a lot of things but I love them on their own.


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Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


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Invisiblevandago
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: musiclover420]
    #23565787 - 08/22/16 11:58 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Raspberry lambic + triple chocolate manifesto........fucking heaven.

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: musiclover420] * 3
    #23565802 - 08/22/16 12:02 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

These hippies are worried about added fluoride. Meanwhile places like Oregon can have 4x as much fluoride in their so called natural untainted clean water.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: koods] * 3
    #23565811 - 08/22/16 12:05 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

It takes several times over what you find in typical drinking sources to even begin to harm you.
Hippies, LOL!!!

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InvisibleLobsterSauceDiscord
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: something super extreme] * 2
    #23565851 - 08/22/16 12:21 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I smoke organic cigarettes.

The radioactive chemicals i.e. lead and polonium are from natural sources.

But the government adding fluoride to the water is the last straw!

Because having a shit ton of smokers paying taxes to smoke and die young is surely no form of control but they are brainwashing us with the goddamn water, not the cigarettes!

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OfflineVriska Serket
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: LobsterSauce] * 1
    #23565856 - 08/22/16 12:22 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

the "flouride in water" thing is one of the many things that gets me to completely stop taking someone's opinion on something seriously.

like go on the infowars forum dude


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the queen of shitposting

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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: LobsterSauce] * 3
    #23565861 - 08/22/16 12:24 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

braaaah the cigarettes are like, my choice brooooo.
but a chemical mildly beneficial in small amounts such as found in drinking sources, it's like, basically genocide or whatever!!!!!!!

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Offlinedesant
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: something super extreme] * 1
    #23565880 - 08/22/16 12:31 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Nazis used to add sodium fluoride to drinking water in concentration camps.....


Ohhhh lets see why...... Nazis were concerned for the state of teeth of prisoners :rolleyes:

FYI fluoride is the most toxic to organic organisms substance in the world and is the cause of cancer , more so than smoking tobacco

Oh and nazis added it to water to "dumb down" and make prisoners unresponsive and submissive a in camps


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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant] * 2
    #23565886 - 08/22/16 12:32 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Haha no it's not you pubhippie.

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OfflineVriska Serket
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant] * 1
    #23565910 - 08/22/16 12:41 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

most ill-informed post ive seen in years


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the queen of shitposting

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Offlinekoods
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Vriska Serket]
    #23565994 - 08/22/16 01:15 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

The nazis gave prisoners drinking water? Drinking water must be bad. If the nazis did it, it's bad.


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NotSheekle said
“if I believed she was 16 I would become unattracted to her”

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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: koods] * 1
    #23565997 - 08/22/16 01:16 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

They also made them concentrate and go camping.
Guess I'm never doing either of those again



What were we talking about

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: koods] * 3
    #23566057 - 08/22/16 01:46 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

There are multiple radically different forms of fluoride.

The naturally occurring kind is calcium fluoride.

The dental kind is sodium fluoride .

The kind they add in my cities municipal water is hydrofluorisilicate and hexofluorosilic acid.

Radically different things.

The natural kind is less toxic than the dental, but both are worlds away from the industrial toxic waste that is added in Canadian and American drinking water .

Israel used to use the same toxic waste for fluoridation and when their citizens found out they stopped it and sued the government .

Natural fluoride in water is an entirely different animal from the toxic waste laden byproducts of heavy aluminum and potash industry that is literally scraped out of the outflow filters and added too drinking water.

It was too toxic to release to the environment so they added wet scrubbers to filter out the toxic fluoride before dumping to the environment . They literally extract the toxic fluoride from those filters and add it directly to water , complete with lead and other even more toxic contaminants .

Yes, this is the literal, actual truth.


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Everything I post is fiction.

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Invisiblesomething super extreme
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Moonshoe] * 1
    #23566070 - 08/22/16 01:52 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

nah

take your paranoid fluoride shit to the conspiracy freaks forum

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Offlinedesant
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23566072 - 08/22/16 01:52 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Planet of the Apes :ass2mouth:


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Offlinedesant
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: something super extreme]
    #23566074 - 08/22/16 01:53 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

something super extreme said:
nah

take your paranoid fluoride shit to the conspiracy freaks forum




Nah, this is not "paranoid shit" this is how things work, unfortunately


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant] * 2
    #23566080 - 08/22/16 01:55 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

haha nah dude it's hella paranoid shit
sorry about the crippling lack of education in whatever shithole you're from

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: something super extreme] * 3
    #23566104 - 08/22/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

i love all of these "FACTS" that are not sourced


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: something super extreme]
    #23566105 - 08/22/16 02:07 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

something super extreme said:
haha nah dude it's hella paranoid shit
sorry about the crippling lack of education in whatever shithole you're from





Dr. Strangelove is the starter of this "conspiracy"  People that believe it are idiots.


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23566159 - 08/22/16 02:25 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
These hippies are worried about added fluoride. Meanwhile places like Oregon can have 4x as much fluoride in their so called natural untainted clean water.



Quote:

koods said:
Quote:

Everything said:
for some reason i've never considered this.

oh, it is probably because i live OR and we do not add flouride to our water supply. We have a lot of micro brews, usually very hoppy, basically a plethora of local options like Ninkasi, Hop Valley, Oakshire Brewery, Fort Gorge, Deschutes... all highly recommend :thumbup:

I wonder if they sell in other Countries.




Oregon has high levels of natural fluoride. If you don't like fluoride, I would stay away from anything made with natural spring water in Oregon.




da fux?  :awewtf:


for real? im pretty sure not all of oregon. maybe portland :lol:

okay  yeah i am not sayying flourides harmful i justt dont think its needed in our watersupply pretty simple. its just not something we need to do, plain and simple. its an additive. i dont need a reason to not want to add it...we need a good reason for it to be added ...thats logic right there.

so reasons for flouride in the water? chop chop! lets get down to business.

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23566177 - 08/22/16 02:31 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

""1. The Industrial Sources of the Chemicals

Until recently, all fluoridation chemicals were obtained from the wet scrubbing systems of the phosphate fertilizer industry in central Florida. In recent years, however, an increasing number of water departments have begun purchasing their fluoride chemicals from China. Based on recent incidents, it appears that the quality control of the Chinese chemicals is even more lax, and variable, than the U.S.-produced chemicals.

Phosphate Fertilizer Industry (Florida, US)

In the process of converting phosphate rock into soluble fertilizer, two very toxic fluoride gases are released: hydrogen fluoride and silicon tetrafluoride. In the past, the phosphate industry used to let these two gases vent freely into the atmosphere. This, however, caused severe environmental damage among downwind communities, including widespread cattle poisonings, scorched vegetation, and various human health complaints.

Eventually, as a result of both litigation and regulation, the phosphate industry installed “wet scrubbers” to trap the fluoride gases. The collected liquid in these scrubbers (hydrofluoroslicic acid) is entered into storage tanks and shipped to water departments throughout the country. In 1983, an official at the Environmental Protection Agency stated the agency’s support for this process:

“In regard to the use of fluosilicic acid as the source of fluoride for fluoridation, this agency regards such use as an ideal solution to a long standing problem. By recovering by-product fluosilicic acid from fertilizer manufacturing, water and air pollution are minimized, and water authorities have a low-cost source of fluoride available to them.” [See letter]

Others at EPA, however, have voiced their objections to this process. In 2000, Dr. William Hirzy, the senior vice president of EPA’s Headquarters Union of Scientists and Professionals, stated:

‘”If this stuff gets out into the air, it’s a pollutant; if it gets into the river, it’s a pollutant; if it gets into the lake it’s a pollutant; but if it goes right into your drinking water system, it’s not a pollutant… There’s got to be a better way to manage this stuff.” [See interview]"


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23566202 - 08/22/16 02:41 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

haha  i wanted to talk about how its added dude to industrial processes and we are just force fed it for their  convenience however i had no sources to back me up nor details of the matter. thank you moonshoe!

you are all being treated like cattle now have a great day! :lol:

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Everything]
    #23566276 - 08/22/16 03:08 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
There are multiple radically different forms of fluoride.

The naturally occurring kind is calcium fluoride.

The dental kind is sodium fluoride .

The kind they add in my cities municipal water is hydrofluorisilicate and hexofluorosilic acid.

Radically different things.

The natural kind is less toxic than the dental, but both are worlds away from the industrial toxic waste that is added in Canadian and American drinking water .

Israel used to use the same toxic waste for fluoridation and when their citizens found out they stopped it and sued the government .

Natural fluoride in water is an entirely different animal from the toxic waste laden byproducts of heavy aluminum and potash industry that is literally scraped out of the outflow filters and added too drinking water.

It was too toxic to release to the environment so they added wet scrubbers to filter out the toxic fluoride before dumping to the environment . They literally extract the toxic fluoride from those filters and add it directly to water , complete with lead and other even more toxic contaminants .

Yes, this is the literal, actual truth.




Fluoride is fluoride there is absolutely zero difference between calcium fluoride and sodium fluoride once it is dissolved in water. In fact there is no such thing as calcium fluoride in solution. There is just calcium ions and fluoride ions. Same goes for sodium fluoride.


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: koods]
    #23566297 - 08/22/16 03:17 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

“In regard to the use of fluosilicic acid as the source of fluoride for fluoridation, this agency regards such use as an ideal solution to a long standing problem. By recovering by-product fluosilicic acid from fertilizer manufacturing, water and air pollution are minimized, and water authorities have a low-cost source of fluoride available to them.” [See letter]




they arent saying they dispose of industrial waste by feeding it to people. They are saying that the waste from that process is a cheap source of fluoride for water treatment. The amount of fluoride released in phosphate production is immense. The amount used in water treatment is minuscule. You do understand that something that can be toxic in larger amounts can also be a trace nutrient, don't you? If the body didn't require fluoride for healthy teeth development, then putting it in water would be stupid. But, we do know that developing teeth require fluoride.


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: koods] * 1
    #23566308 - 08/22/16 03:22 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

heh if fluoride isn't toxic then how come guns can kill you?

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: something super extreme] * 1
    #23566314 - 08/22/16 03:23 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

They can't. Bullets kill you.


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: something super extreme]
    #23566316 - 08/22/16 03:24 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Deschutes is no where near the big US guys, but they are relatively big among their peers, seeing about 30 states (seekabrew.com ) in the West and Midwest. Ninkasi only sees a handful of states, unfortunately.


There are thousands of stouts available besides Guinnness, but you shouldn't be too worried about its fluoridation. Most especially if you ever drink to the point of drunkenness. There are plenty of other things in daily life that have more evidence of harming us to any significant degree.

Many porters and stouts will be much heavier/thicker/stronger flavored than Guinness. You'd probably like Schwarzbiers, (very) crisp lower ABV black/roasted malt lagers.


--------------------

Edited by DustBunny (08/22/16 03:25 PM)

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: koods]
    #23566324 - 08/22/16 03:27 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
They can't. Bullets kill you.





Haha I thought so. Cleverly ignore the fact that guns kill trillions of people while bullets take all of the blame.
Therefor, fluoride is dangerous at all levels.

KYUED.

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: koods] * 1
    #23566332 - 08/22/16 03:30 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

The dental benefits fluoride can have exist only for topical use , while its harms emerge from systemic / oral use.

Adding fluoride to drinking water to prevent cavities is idiotic insanity, for exactly the same reason adding sunscreen to the drinking water to prevent sunburn would be idiotic insanity.

Would you drink bug spray to prevent mosquito bites?

When you get a paper cut do you eat a band aid ?

again, fluoride has absolutely zero dental benefit taken orally. It's only use is topical. Therefore , administering it orally, let alone indiscriminately giving it orally to everyone without any accounting for the fact that people are getting wildly different doses depending on body size and how much water they drink, Is unethical, irrational, harmful And insane.

If you think drinking fluoride for cavity prevention makes sense, don't forget to drink your sunscreen before you go out on a hot day.


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23566337 - 08/22/16 03:31 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

haha jesus christ you're just the worst troll

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: something super extreme]
    #23566341 - 08/22/16 03:33 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

something super extreme said:
haha jesus christ I'm just the worst troll




:themoreyouknow:


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: musiclover420]
    #23566344 - 08/22/16 03:34 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

420 in your username, consider yourself blessed to not be ignored much less to be talking to me

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: musiclover420]
    #23566347 - 08/22/16 03:35 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Man With Half The Facts In Heated Debate With Man With Zero Facts


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: something super extreme] * 1
    #23566348 - 08/22/16 03:35 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Fluoride is my favorite beer!

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: something super extreme]
    #23566353 - 08/22/16 03:39 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

it's all the flouride you drink SvS, its calcifying your crown chakra and closing the vagina that should be gaping open between your brow.

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: moonrockmushy]
    #23566354 - 08/22/16 03:39 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Moonshot is right, adding fluoride to water to prevent cavities is idiotic, ANYONE with half brain will see that :shrug:


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant] * 1
    #23566360 - 08/22/16 03:40 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Oh shit it all makes sense now

namaste brother everything many abundant yogas of the tantric cheeba to you friend

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: something super extreme]
    #23566367 - 08/22/16 03:43 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Everything said:
for some reason i've never considered this.

oh, it is probably because i live OR and we do not add flouride to our water supply. We have a lot of micro brews, usually very hoppy, basically a plethora of local options like Ninkasi, Hop Valley, Oakshire Brewery, Fort Gorge, Deschutes... all highly recommend :thumbup:

I wonder if they sell in other Countries.




Oregon has a lower than usual level of water fluoridation, but 22% of the residents have fluoridated water. It would be understandable though for the microbreweries to locate outside those communities.


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: something super extreme]
    #23566409 - 08/22/16 03:54 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

something super extreme said:
420 in your username, consider yourself blessed to not be ignored much less to be talking to me




:whateverhuman:


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant]
    #23566412 - 08/22/16 03:55 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Koods and anyone else who might want to actually understand this issue, This documentary is an excellent place to start.



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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23566414 - 08/22/16 03:56 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

no it's not, you're deluded.

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23566419 - 08/22/16 03:58 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

yeah cuz im really gonna watch a 3 hour long documentary with a fucking pun as the title

im going to eat an entire tube of flouride toothpaste just to spite you


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: koods]
    #23566463 - 08/22/16 04:11 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

koods said:
The nazis gave prisoners drinking water? Drinking water must be bad. If the nazis did it, it's bad.





what gets me is that so many people are worried about fluoride in their water but
they dont give a shit that there are near lethal doses of Oxidane and Hydroxic Acid
in common municipal water sources, they cant filter it out at treatment plants so it
ends up back in the lakes and rivers

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23566471 - 08/22/16 04:13 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I don't know about u lot but here in England they fluoridate ,  I have a special water filter in my kitchen for cooking and making tea :shrug:


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Vriska Serket]
    #23566477 - 08/22/16 04:14 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Vriska Serket said:
yeah cuz im really gonna watch a 3 hour long documentary with a fucking pun as the title

im going to eat an entire tube of flouride toothpaste just to spite you





dont forget to post and let us know it killed you

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Prisoner#1]
    #23566483 - 08/22/16 04:16 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Prisoner#1 said:
Quote:

koods said:
The nazis gave prisoners drinking water? Drinking water must be bad. If the nazis did it, it's bad.





what gets me is that so many people are worried about fluoride in their water but
they dont give a shit that there are near lethal doses of Oxidane and Hydroxic Acid
in common municipal water sources, they cant filter it out at treatment plants so it
ends up back in the lakes and rivers





Same thing goes for a lot of prescription drugs.

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Prisoner#1] * 1
    #23566492 - 08/22/16 04:19 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

im fucking dead right now bros, my pineal gland fell out of a giant gaping hole in my forehead and exploded and all of my intestines burst at once. the grim reaper said i could do one thing before I went to hell so I decided to post here tand tell you all that flouride is bad


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Vriska Serket]
    #23566515 - 08/22/16 04:25 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

U evil slapper :lol:


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Vriska Serket] * 2
    #23566525 - 08/22/16 04:28 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Vriska Serket said:
im fucking dead right now bros, my pineal gland fell out of a giant gaping hole in my forehead and exploded and all of my intestines burst at once. the grim reaper said i could do one thing before I went to hell so I decided to post here tand tell you all that flouride is bad




Just dip it in CLR and pop it back in.  Your third eye will be clear as bud light.

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Vriska Serket] * 1
    #23566526 - 08/22/16 04:29 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Vriska Serket said:
im fucking dead right now bros, my pineal gland fell out of a giant gaping hole in my forehead and exploded and all of my intestines burst at once. the grim reaper said i could do one thing before I went to hell so I decided to post here tand tell you all that flouride is bad





Your poor third eye took a shit.

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23566530 - 08/22/16 04:29 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

fuck flouride bros not even once


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: something super extreme]
    #23566547 - 08/22/16 04:35 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)



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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: timelapses]
    #23566553 - 08/22/16 04:36 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Why would they do this?

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Vriska Serket]
    #23566556 - 08/22/16 04:38 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Vriska Serket said:
fuck flouride bros not even once





Some of us want to forget, OK?!?!?

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23566598 - 08/22/16 04:50 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

I drink fluoride from corps who lobby to have their waste into the water supply and make money off of it and I take fluoride supplements like popping percosets.:electrickoolaid:

Seriously besides the naturally occurring fluoride keep it to toothpaste please.  Choice is great.  And you can spit it out after applied to the teeth.


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: timelapses]
    #23566614 - 08/22/16 04:55 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

You do get a choice. Buy multiple water filters.

My friend has well water and an amazing softener and two filters on his sink, and it's amazing drinking water. 

As far as fluoride being in it in general, I don't think it was really a choice, but an accident we can't really invest in fixing.  I do not think it was intended to cattlize us.

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23566701 - 08/22/16 05:25 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Flouride is intended to treat childern and poor people who dont have proper tooth care or cannot afford proper tooth care or dont known nothing about tooth care: http://fluorideinfo.org/

To OP: I seriously doubt the levels of flouride in your Guiness has high enough flouride levels to cause toxic damage. I would bet the alcohol is doing more damage than the flouride.


--------------------
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Invisiblevandago
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Posts: 20,928
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: LogicaL Chaos]
    #23566713 - 08/22/16 05:29 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Bleh I'm not even gonna get into a fluoride debate.


You know what beer fucking rules? 



Hands down my favorite beer ever. Also happens to be one of the most expensive ones I have ever purchased.

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Offlinetimelapses
Life in free form
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Registered: 01/26/11
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23566736 - 08/22/16 05:39 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

vandago said:
Bleh I'm not even gonna get into a fluoride debate.


You know what beer fucking rules? 



Hands down my favorite beer ever. Also happens to be one of the most expensive ones I have ever purchased.




Now that is a man in the right mood.  ALCOHOL IS BAD!!!!  Shroomerites delite.  Ignore the prohibition people.

Your beer sounds like a wine. Cranberries, sour cherries, at 7.0. Wonder how sweet it is.  I would drink it. To each their own and I will never look down upon a beer drinker unless keystone or natty lights are encouraged.


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InvisibleDustBunnyM
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Registered: 08/20/14
Posts: 10,404
Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23566821 - 08/22/16 06:01 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Will you still be trying to enjoy them in (serious) moderation when you can drink again? Sours/wild ales are always going to be pricey, but many of the cheapest options will be from the U.S. (for us). They've really blown up in popularity the past few years. In the PNW more than anywhere, but most states anymore have at least one brewery putting out solid wilds.


--------------------

Edited by DustBunny (08/22/16 06:02 PM)

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Invisiblevandago
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: timelapses]
    #23566873 - 08/22/16 06:22 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DustBunny said:
Will you still be trying to enjoy them in (serious) moderation when you can drink again? Sours/wild ales are always going to be pricey, but many of the cheapest options will be from the U.S. (for us). They've really blown up in popularity the past few years. In the PNW more than anywhere, but most states anymore have at least one brewery putting out solid wilds.






My year is coming up, and I have decided I will continue to enjoy a beer here and there. 

Once I am able to, and stay away from people that get hammered ( that's already happened ) I plan on drinking a sour from time to time.

Quote:

timelapses said:
Quote:

vandago said:
Bleh I'm not even gonna get into a fluoride debate.


You know what beer fucking rules? 



Hands down my favorite beer ever. Also happens to be one of the most expensive ones I have ever purchased.




Now that is a man in the right mood.  ALCOHOL IS BAD!!!!  Shroomerites delite.  Ignore the prohibition people.

Your beer sounds like a wine. Cranberries, sour cherries, at 7.0. Wonder how sweet it is.  I would drink it. To each their own and I will never look down upon a beer drinker unless keystone or natty lights are encouraged.





It's actually very tart.  I don't care for sweetness in my beer.  This one is just right.  Rodenbach 2010 is also a very fine sour.

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InvisibleMoonshoe
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant] * 1
    #23566884 - 08/22/16 06:25 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

If you do not oppose water fluoridation it is because you have not yet educated yourself sufficiently to understand the issue. Once you truly understand it, it is not possible to support it.

If you want to understand it, read the following 50 reasons to oppose water fluoridation.

Some of you are not being sincere and have no actual desire to understand. Those people will not read the following post.

For everyone else, reading this post or watching the documentary I posted will be "case closed"

Either you are being insincere, you haven't done your homework, or you know water fluoridation is a monstrous fraud.

You may not have time to read all this in one sitting. You don't need to. This list of points is sufficient to debunk the entire insidious hogwash that is water fluoridation many times over.

Read them All at once or one at a time. Come back to it as many times as you need.

From now on willful ignorance is the only excuse that remains to you. As they say, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink.

Horses - meet water.





50 Reasons to Oppose Fluoridation



In Europe, only Ireland (73%), Poland (1%), Serbia (3%), Spain (11%), and the U.K. (11%) fluoridate any of their water. Most developed countries, including Japan and 97% of the western European population, do not consume fluoridated water.

In the U.S., about 70% of public water supplies are fluoridated. This equates to approximately 185 million people, which is over half the number of people drinking artificially fluoridated water worldwide. Some countries have areas with high natural fluoride levels in the water. These include India, China and parts of Africa. In these countries measures are being taken to remove the fluoride because of the health problems that fluoride can cause.
Fluoridation is a bad medical practice

1) Fluoride is the only chemical added to water for the purpose of medical treatment. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) classifies fluoride as a drug when used to prevent or mitigate disease (FDA 2000). As a matter of basic logic, adding fluoride to water for the sole purpose of preventing tooth decay (a non-waterborne disease) is a form of medical treatment. All other water treatment chemicals are added to improve the water’s quality or safety, which fluoride does not do.

2) Fluoridation is unethical. Informed consent is standard practice for all medication, and one of the key reasons why most of Western Europe has ruled against fluoridation. With water fluoridation we are allowing governments to do to whole communities (forcing people to take a medicine irrespective of their consent) what individual doctors cannot do to individual patients.

Put another way: Does a voter have the right to require that their neighbor ingest a certain medication (even if it is against that neighbor’s will)?

3) The dose cannot be controlled. Once fluoride is put in the water it is impossible to control the dose each individual receives because people drink different amounts of water. Being able to control the dose a patient receives is critical. Some people (e.g., manual laborers, athletes, diabetics, and people with kidney disease) drink substantially more water than others.

4) The fluoride goes to everyone regardless of age, health or vulnerability. According to Dr. Arvid Carlsson, the 2000 Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology and one of the scientists who helped keep fluoridation out of Sweden:

“Water fluoridation goes against leading principles of pharmacotherapy, which is progressing from a stereotyped medication — of the type 1 tablet 3 times a day — to a much more individualized therapy as regards both dosage and selection of drugs. The addition of drugs to the drinking water means exactly the opposite of an individualized therapy” (Carlsson 1978).

5) People now receive fluoride from many other sources besides water. Fluoridated water is not the only way people are exposed to fluoride. Other sources of fluoride include food and beverages processed with fluoridated water (Kiritsy 1996; Heilman 1999), fluoridated dental products (Bentley 1999; Levy 1999), mechanically deboned meat (Fein 2001), tea (Levy 1999), and pesticide residues (e.g., from cryolite) on food (Stannard 1991; Burgstahler 1997). It is now widely acknowledged that exposure to non-water sources of fluoride has significantly increased since the water fluoridation program first began (NRC 2006).

6) Fluoride is not an essential nutrient. No disease, not even tooth decay, is caused by a “fluoride deficiency.”(NRC 1993; Institute of Medicine 1997, NRC 2006). Not a single biological process has been shown to require fluoride. On the contrary there is extensive evidence that fluoride can interfere with many important biological processes. Fluoride interferes with numerous enzymes (Waldbott 1978). In combination with aluminum, fluoride interferes with G-proteins (Bigay 1985, 1987). Such interactions give aluminum-fluoride complexes the potential to interfere with signals from growth factors, hormones and neurotransmitters (Strunecka & Patocka 1999; Li 2003). More and more studies indicate that fluoride can interfere with biochemistry in fundamental ways (Barbier 2010).

7) The level in mothers’ milk is very low. Considering reason #6 it is perhaps not surprising that the level of fluoride in mother’s milk is remarkably low (0.004 ppm, NRC, 2006). This means that a bottle-fed baby consuming fluoridated water (0.6 – 1.2 ppm) can get up to 300 times more fluoride than a breast-fed baby. There are no benefits (see reasons #11-19), only risks (see reasons #21-36), for infants ingesting this heightened level of fluoride at such an early age (an age where susceptibility to environmental toxins is particularly high).

8 ) Fluoride accumulates in the body. Healthy adult kidneys excrete 50 to 60% of the fluoride ingested each day (Marier & Rose 1971). The remainder accumulates in the body, largely in calcifying tissues such as the bones and pineal gland (Luke 1997, 2001). Infants and children excrete less fluoride from their kidneys and take up to 80% of ingested fluoride into their bones (Ekstrand 1994). The fluoride concentration in bone steadily increases over a lifetime (NRC 2006).

9) No health agency in fluoridated countries is monitoring fluoride exposure or side effects. No regular measurements are being made of the levels of fluoride in urine, blood, bones, hair, or nails of either the general population or sensitive subparts of the population (e.g., individuals with kidney disease).

10) There has never been a single randomized controlled trial to demonstrate fluoridation’s effectiveness or safety. Despite the fact that fluoride has been added to community water supplies for over 60 years, “there have been no randomized trials of water fluoridation” (Cheng 2007). Randomized trials are the standard method for determining the safety and effectiveness of any purportedly beneficial medical treatment. In 2000, the British Government’s “York Review” could not give a single fluoridation trial a Grade A classification – despite 50 years of research (McDonagh 2000). The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) continues to classify fluoride as an “unapproved new drug.”
Swallowing fluoride provides no (or very little) benefit

11) Benefit is topical not systemic. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC, 1999, 2001) has now acknowledged that the mechanism of fluoride’s benefits are mainly topical, not systemic. There is no need whatsoever, therefore, to swallow fluoride to protect teeth. Since the purported benefit of fluoride is topical, and the risks are systemic, it makes more sense to deliver the fluoride directly to the tooth in the form of toothpaste. Since swallowing fluoride is unnecessary, and potentially dangerous, there is no justification for forcing people (against their will) to ingest fluoride through their water supply.

12) Fluoridation is not necessary. Most western, industrialized countries have rejected water fluoridation, but have nevertheless experienced the same decline in childhood dental decay as fluoridated countries. (See data from World Health Organization presented graphically in Figure).

13) Fluoridation’s role in the decline of tooth decay is in serious doubt. The largest survey ever conducted in the US (over 39,000 children from 84 communities) by the National Institute of Dental Research showed little difference in tooth decay among children in fluoridated and non-fluoridated communities (Hileman 1989). According to NIDR researchers, the study found an average difference of only 0.6 DMFS (Decayed, Missing, and Filled Surfaces) in the permanent teeth of children aged 5-17 residing their entire lives in either fluoridated or unfluoridated areas (Brunelle & Carlos, 1990). This difference is less than one tooth surface, and less than 1% of the 100+ tooth surfaces available in a child’s mouth. Large surveys from three Australian states have found even less of a benefit, with decay reductions ranging from 0 to 0.3 of one permanent tooth surface (Spencer 1996; Armfield & Spencer 2004). None of these studies have allowed for the possible delayed eruption of the teeth that may be caused by exposure to fluoride, for which there is some evidence (Komarek 2005). A one-year delay in eruption of the permanent teeth would eliminate the very small benefit recorded in these modern studies.

14) NIH-funded study on individual fluoride ingestion and tooth decay found no significant correlation. A multi-million dollar, U.S. National Institutes of Health (NIH)-funded study found no significant relationship between tooth decay and fluoride intake among children. (Warren 2009) This is the first time tooth decay has been investigated as a function of individual exposure (as opposed to mere residence in a fluoridated community).

15) Tooth decay is high in low-income communities that have been fluoridated for years. Despite some claims to the contrary, water fluoridation cannot prevent the oral health crises that result from rampant poverty, inadequate nutrition, and lack of access to dental care. There have been numerous reports of severe dental crises in low-income neighborhoods of US cities that have been fluoridated for over 20 years (e.g., Boston, Cincinnati, New York City, and Pittsburgh). In addition, research has repeatedly found fluoridation to be ineffective at preventing the most serious oral health problem facing poor children, namely “baby bottle tooth decay,” otherwise known as early childhood caries (Barnes 1992; Shiboski 2003).

16) Tooth decay does not go up when fluoridation is stopped. Where fluoridation has been discontinued in communities from Canada, the former East Germany, Cuba and Finland, dental decay has not increased but has generally continued to decrease (Maupomé 2001; Kunzel & Fischer, 1997, 2000; Kunzel 2000; Seppa 2000).

17) Tooth decay was coming down before fluoridation started. Modern research shows that decay rates were coming down before fluoridation was introduced in Australia and New Zealand and have continued to decline even after its benefits would have been maximized. (Colquhoun 1997; Diesendorf 1986). As the following figure indicates, many other factors are responsible for the decline of tooth decay that has been universally reported throughout the western world

18) The studies that launched fluoridation were methodologically flawed. The early trials conducted between 1945 and 1955 in North America that helped to launch fluoridation, have been heavily criticized for their poor methodology and poor choice of control communities (De Stefano 1954; Sutton 1959, 1960, 1996; Ziegelbecker 1970). According to Dr. Hubert Arnold, a statistician from the University of California at Davis, the early fluoridation trials “are especially rich in fallacies, improper design, invalid use of statistical methods, omissions of contrary data, and just plain muddleheadedness and hebetude.” Serious questions have also been raised about Trendley Dean’s (the father of fluoridation) famous 21-city study from 1942 (Ziegelbecker 1981).
Children are being over-exposed to fluoride

19) Children are being over-exposed to fluoride. The fluoridation program has massively failed to achieve one of its key objectives, i.e., to lower dental decay rates while limiting the occurrence of dental fluorosis (a discoloring of tooth enamel caused by too much fluoride. The goal of the early promoters of fluoridation was to limit dental fluorosis (in its very mild form) to10% of children (NRC 1993, pp. 6-7). In 2010, however, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported that 41% of American adolescents had dental fluorosis, with 8.6% having mild fluorosis and 3.6% having either moderate or severe dental fluorosis (Beltran-Aguilar 2010). As the 41% prevalence figure is a national average and includes children living in fluoridated and unfluoridated areas, the fluorosis rate in fluoridated communities will obviously be higher. The British Government’s York Review estimated that up to 48% of children in fluoridated areas worldwide have dental fluorosis in all forms, with 12.5% having fluorosis of aesthetic concern (McDonagh, 2000).



20) The highest doses of fluoride are going to bottle-fed babies. Because of their sole reliance on liquids for their food intake, infants consuming formula made with fluoridated water have the highest exposure to fluoride, by bodyweight, in the population. Because infant exposure to fluoridated water has been repeatedly found to be a major risk factor for developing dental fluorosis later in life (Marshall 2004; Hong 2006; Levy 2010), a number of dental researchers have recommended that parents of newborns not use fluoridated water when reconstituting formula (Ekstrand 1996; Pendrys 1998; Fomon 2000; Brothwell 2003; Marshall 2004). Even the American Dental Association (ADA), the most ardent institutional proponent of fluoridation, distributed a November 6, 2006 email alert to its members recommending that parents be advised that formula should be made with “low or no-fluoride water.” Unfortunately, the ADA has done little to get this information into the hands of parents. As a result, many parents remain unaware of the fluorosis risk from infant exposure to fluoridated water.
Evidence of harm to other tissues

21) Dental fluorosis may be an indicator of wider systemic damage. There have been many suggestions as to the possible biochemical mechanisms underlying the development of dental fluorosis (Matsuo 1998; Den Besten 1999; Sharma 2008; Duan 2011; Tye 2011) and they are complicated for a lay reader. While promoters of fluoridation are content to dismiss dental fluorosis (in its milder forms) as merely a cosmetic effect, it is rash to assume that fluoride is not impacting other developing tissues when it is visibly damaging the teeth by some biochemical mechanism (Groth 1973; Colquhoun 1997). Moreover, ingested fluoride can only cause dental fluorosis during the period before the permanent teeth have erupted (6-8 years), other tissues are potentially susceptible to damage throughout life. For example, in areas of naturally high levels of fluoride the first indicator of harm is dental fluorosis in children. In the same communities many older people develop skeletal fluorosis.

22) Fluoride may damage the brain. According to the National Research Council (2006), “it is apparent that fluorides have the ability to interfere with the functions of the brain.” In a review of the literature commissioned by the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), fluoride has been listed among about 100 chemicals for which there is “substantial evidence of developmental neurotoxicity.” Animal experiments show that fluoride accumulates in the brain and alters mental behavior in a manner consistent with a neurotoxic agent (Mullenix 1995). In total, there have now been over 100 animal experiments showing that fluoride can damage the brain and impact learning and behavior. According to fluoridation proponents, these animal studies can be ignored because high doses were used. However, it is important to note that rats generally require five times more fluoride to reach the same plasma levels in humans (Sawan 2010). Further, one animal experiment found effects at remarkably low doses (Varner 1998). In this study, rats fed for one year with 1 ppm fluoride in their water (the same level used in fluoridation programs), using either sodium fluoride or aluminum fluoride, had morphological changes to their kidneys and brains, an increased uptake of aluminum in the brain, and the formation of beta-amyloid deposits which are associated with Alzheimer’s disease. Other animal studies have found effects on the brain at water fluoride levels as low as 5 ppm (Liu 2010).

23) Fluoride may lower IQ. There have now been 33 studies from China, Iran, India and Mexico that have reported an association between fluoride exposure and reduced IQ. One of these studies (Lin 1991) indicates that even just moderate levels of fluoride exposure (e.g., 0.9 ppm in the water) can exacerbate the neurological defects of iodine deficiency. Other studies have found IQ reductions at 1.9 ppm (Xiang 2003a,b); 0.3-3.0 ppm (Ding 2011); 1.8-3.9 ppm (Xu 1994); 2.0 ppm (Yao 1996, 1997); 2.1-3.2 ppm (An 1992); 2.38 ppm (Poureslami 2011); 2.45 ppm (Eswar 2011); 2.5 ppm (Seraj 2006); 2.85 ppm (Hong 2001); 2.97 ppm (Wang 2001, Yang 1994); 3.15 ppm (Lu 2000); 4.12 ppm (Zhao 1996). In the Ding study, each 1 ppm increase of fluoride in urine was associated with a loss of 0.59 IQ points. None of these studies indicate an adequate margin of safety to protect all children drinking artificially fluoridated water from this affect. According to the National Research Council (2006), “the consistency of the results [in fluoride/IQ studies] appears significant enough to warrant additional research on the effects of fluoride on intelligence.” The NRC’s conclusion has recently been amplified by a team of Harvard scientists whose fluoride/IQ meta-review concludes that fluoride’s impact on the developing brain should be a “high research priority.” (Choi et al., 2012). Except for one small IQ study from New Zealand (Spittle 1998) no fluoridating country has yet investigated the matter.

24) Fluoride may cause non-IQ neurotoxic effects. Reduced IQ is not the only neurotoxic effect that may result from fluoride exposure. At least three human studies have reported an association between fluoride exposure and impaired visual-spatial organization (Calderon 2000; Li 2004; Rocha-Amador 2009); while four other studies have found an association between prenatal fluoride exposure and fetal brain damage (Han 1989; Du 1992; Dong 1993; Yu 1996).

25) Fluoride affects the pineal gland. Studies by Jennifer Luke (2001) show that fluoride accumulates in the human pineal gland to very high levels. In her Ph.D. thesis, Luke has also shown in animal studies that fluoride reduces melatonin production and leads to an earlier onset of puberty (Luke 1997). Consistent with Luke’s findings, one of the earliest fluoridation trials in the U.S. (Schlesinger 1956) reported that on average young girls in the fluoridated community reached menstruation 5 months earlier than girls in the non-fluoridated community. Inexplicably, no fluoridating country has attempted to reproduce either Luke’s or Schlesinger’s findings or examine the issue any further.

26) Fluoride affects thyroid function. According to the U.S. National Research Council (2006), “several lines of information indicate an effect of fluoride exposure on thyroid function.” In the Ukraine, Bachinskii (1985) found a lowering of thyroid function, among otherwise healthy people, at 2.3 ppm fluoride in water. In the middle of the 20th century, fluoride was prescribed by a number of European doctors to reduce the activity of the thyroid gland for those suffering from hyperthyroidism (overactive thyroid) (Stecher 1960; Waldbott 1978). According to a clinical study by Galletti and Joyet (1958), the thyroid function of hyperthyroid patients was effectively reduced at just 2.3 to 4.5 mg/day of fluoride ion. To put this finding in perspective, the Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS, 1991) has estimated that total fluoride exposure in fluoridated communities ranges from 1.6 to 6.6 mg/day. This is a remarkable fact, particularly considering the rampant and increasing problem of hypothyroidism (underactive thyroid) in the United States and other fluoridated countries. Symptoms of hypothyroidism include depression, fatigue, weight gain, muscle and joint pains, increased cholesterol levels, and heart disease. In 2010, the second most prescribed drug of the year was Synthroid (sodium levothyroxine) which is a hormone replacement drug used to treat an underactive thyroid.

27) Fluoride causes arthritic symptoms. Some of the early symptoms of skeletal fluorosis (a fluoride-induced bone and joint disease that impacts millions of people in India, China, and Africa), mimic the symptoms of arthritis (Singh 1963; Franke 1975; Teotia 1976; Carnow 1981; Czerwinski 1988; DHHS 1991). According to a review on fluoridation published in Chemical & Engineering News, “Because some of the clinical symptoms mimic arthritis, the first two clinical phases of skeletal fluorosis could be easily misdiagnosed” (Hileman 1988). Few, if any, studies have been done to determine the extent of this misdiagnosis, and whether the high prevalence of arthritis in America (1 in 3 Americans have some form of arthritis – CDC, 2002) and other fluoridated countries is related to growing fluoride exposure, which is highly plausible. Even when individuals in the U.S. suffer advanced forms of skeletal fluorosis (from drinking large amounts of tea), it has taken years of misdiagnoses before doctors finally correctly diagnosed the condition as fluorosis.

28) Fluoride damages bone. An early fluoridation trial (Newburgh-Kingston 1945-55) found a significant two-fold increase in cortical bone defects among children in the fluoridated community (Schlesinger 1956). The cortical bone is the outside layer of the bone and is important to protect against fracture. While this result was not considered important at the time with respect to bone fractures, it did prompt questions about a possible link to osteosarcoma (Caffey, 1955; NAS, 1977). In 2001, Alarcon-Herrera and co-workers reported a linear correlation between the severity of dental fluorosis and the frequency of bone fractures in both children and adults in a high fluoride area in Mexico.

29) Fluoride may increase hip fractures in the elderly. When high doses of fluoride (average 26 mg per day) were used in trials to treat patients with osteoporosis in an effort to harden their bones and reduce fracture rates, it actually led to a higher number of fractures, particularly hip fractures (Inkovaara 1975; Gerster 1983; Dambacher 1986; O’Duffy 1986; Hedlund 1989; Bayley 1990; Gutteridge 1990. 2002; Orcel 1990; Riggs 1990 and Schnitzler 1990). Hip fracture is a very serious issue for the elderly, often leading to a loss of independence or a shortened life. There have been over a dozen studies published since 1990 that have investigated a possible relationship between hip fractures and long term consumption of artificially fluoridated water or water with high natural levels. The results have been mixed – some have found an association and others have not. Some have even claimed a protective effect. One very important study in China, which examined hip fractures in six Chinese villages, found what appears to be a dose-related increase in hip fracture as the concentration of fluoride rose from 1 ppm to 8 ppm (Li 2001) offering little comfort to those who drink a lot of fluoridated water. Moreover, in the only human epidemiological study to assess bone strength as a function of bone fluoride concentration, researchers from the University of Toronto found that (as with animal studies) the strength of bone declined with increasing fluoride content (Chachra 2010). Finally, a recent study from Iowa (Levy 2009), published data suggesting that low-level fluoride exposure may have a detrimental effect on cortical bone density in girls (an effect that has been repeatedly documented in clinical trials and which has been posited as an important mechanism by which fluoride may increase bone fracture rates).

30) People with impaired kidney function are particularly vulnerable to bone damage. Because of their inability to effectively excrete fluoride, people with kidney disease are prone to accumulating high levels of fluoride in their bone and blood. As a result of this high fluoride body burden, kidney patients have an elevated risk for developing skeletal fluorosis. In one of the few U.S. studies investigating the matter, crippling skeletal fluorosis was documented among patients with severe kidney disease drinking water with just 1.7 ppm fluoride (Johnson 1979). Since severe skeletal fluorosis in kidney patients has been detected in small case studies, it is likely that larger, systematic studies would detect skeletal fluorosis at even lower fluoride levels.

31) Fluoride may cause bone cancer (osteosarcoma). A U.S. government-funded animal study found a dose-dependent increase in bone cancer (osteosarcoma) in fluoride-treated, male rats (NTP 1990). Following the results of this study, the National Cancer Institute (NCI) reviewed national cancer data in the U.S. and found a significantly higher rate of osteosarcoma (a bone cancer) in young men in fluoridated versus unfluoridated areas (Hoover et al 1991a). While the NCI concluded (based on an analysis lacking statistical power) that fluoridation was not the cause (Hoover et al 1991b), no explanation was provided to explain the higher rates in the fluoridated areas. A smaller study from New Jersey (Cohn 1992) found osteosarcoma rates to be up to 6 times higher in young men living in fluoridated versus unfluoridated areas. Other epidemiological studies of varying size and quality have failed to find this relationship (a summary of these can be found in Bassin, 2001 and Connett & Neurath, 2005). There are three reasons why a fluoride-osteosarcoma connection is plausible: First, fluoride accumulates to a high level in bone. Second, fluoride stimulates bone growth. And, third, fluoride can interfere with the genetic apparatus of bone cells in several ways; it has been shown to be mutagenic, cause chromosome damage, and interfere with the enzymes involved with DNA repair in both cell and tissue studies (Tsutsui 1984; Caspary 1987; Kishi 1993; Mihashi 1996; Zhang 2009). In addition to cell and tissue studies, a correlation between fluoride exposure and chromosome damage in humans has also been reported (Sheth 1994; Wu 1995; Meng 1997; Joseph 2000).

32) Proponents have failed to refute the Bassin-Osteosarcoma study. In 2001, Elise Bassin, a dentist, successfully defended her doctoral thesis at Harvard in which she found that young boys had a five-to-seven fold increased risk of getting osteosarcoma by the age of 20 if they drank fluoridated water during their mid-childhood growth spurt (age 6 to 8). The study was published in 2006 (Bassin 2006) but has been largely discounted by fluoridating countries because her thesis adviser Professor Chester Douglass (a promoter of fluoridation and a consultant for Colgate) promised a larger study that he claimed would discount her thesis (Douglass and Joshipura, 2006). Now, after 5 years of waiting the Douglass study has finally been published (Kim 2011) but in no way does this study discount Bassin’s findings. The study, which used far fewer controls than Bassin’s analysis, did not even attempt to assess the age-specific window of risk that Bassin identified. Indeed, by the authors’ own admission, the study had no capacity to assess the risk of osteosarcoma among children and adolescents (the precise population of concern). For a critique of the Douglass study, click here.

33) Fluoride may cause reproductive problems. Fluoride administered to animals at high doses wreaks havoc on the male reproductive system – it damages sperm and increases the rate of infertility in a number of different species (Kour 1980; Chinoy 1989; Chinoy 1991; Susheela 1991; Chinoy 1994; Kumar 1994; Narayana 1994a,b; Zhao 1995; Elbetieha 2000; Ghosh 2002; Zakrzewska 2002). In addition, an epidemiological study from the US found increased rates of infertility among couples living in areas with 3 ppm or more fluoride in the water (Freni 1994), two studies have found increased fertility among men living in high-fluoride areas of China and India (Liu 1988; Neelam 1987); four studies have found reduced level of circulating testosterone in males living in high fluoride areas (Hao 2010; Chen P 1997; Susheela 1996; Barot 1998), and a study of fluoride-exposed workers reported a “subclinical reproductive effect” (Ortiz-Perez 2003). While animal studies by FDA researchers have failed to find evidence of reproductive toxicity in fluoride-exposed rats (Sprando 1996, 1997, 1998), the National Research Council (2006) has recommended that, “the relationship between fluoride and fertility requires additional study.”

34) Some individuals are highly sensitive to low levels of fluoride as shown by case studies and double blind studies. In one study, which lasted 13 years, Feltman and Kosel (1961) showed that about 1% of patients given 1 mg of fluoride each day developed negative reactions. Many individuals have reported suffering from symptoms such as fatigue, headaches, rashes and stomach and gastro intestinal tract problems, which disappear when they avoid fluoride in their water and diet. (Shea 1967; Waldbott 1978; Moolenburgh 1987) Frequently the symptoms reappear when they are unwittingly exposed to fluoride again (Spittle, 2008). No fluoridating government has conducted scientific studies to take this issue beyond these anecdotal reports. Without the willingness of governments to investigate these reports scientifically, should we as a society be forcing these people to ingest fluoride?

35) Other subsets of population are more vulnerable to fluoride’s toxicity. In addition to people suffering from impaired kidney function discussed in reason #30 other subsets of the population are more vulnerable to fluoride’s toxic effects. According to the Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry (ATSDR 1993) these include: infants, the elderly, and those with diabetes mellitus. Also vulnerable are those who suffer from malnutrition (e.g., calcium, magnesium, vitamin C, vitamin D and iodine deficiencies and protein-poor diets) and those who have diabetes insipidus. See: Greenberg 1974; Klein 1975; Massler & Schour 1952; Marier & Rose 1977; Lin 1991; Chen 1997; Seow 1994; Teotia 1998.
No Margin of Safety

36) There is no margin of safety for several health effects. No one can deny that high natural levels of fluoride damage health. Millions of people in India and China have had their health compromised by fluoride. The real question is whether there is an adequate margin of safety between the doses shown to cause harm in published studies and the total dose people receive consuming uncontrolled amounts of fluoridated water and non-water sources of fluoride. This margin of safety has to take into account the wide range of individual sensitivity expected in a large population (a safety factor of 10 is usually applied to the lowest level causing harm). Another safety factor is also needed to take into account the wide range of doses to which people are exposed. There is clearly no margin of safety for dental fluorosis (CDC, 2010) and based on the following studies nowhere near an adequate margin of safety for lowered IQ (Xiang 2003a,b; Ding 2011; Choi 2012); lowered thyroid function (Galletti & Joyet 1958; Bachinskii 1985; Lin 1991); bone fractures in children (Alarcon-Herrera 2001) or hip fractures in the elderly (Kurttio 1999; Li 2001). All of these harmful effects are discussed in the NRC (2006) review.
Environmental Justice

37) Low-income families penalized by fluoridation. Those most likely to suffer from poor nutrition, and thus more likely to be more vulnerable to fluoride’s toxic effects, are the poor, who unfortunately, are the very people being targeted by new fluoridation programs. While at heightened risk, poor families are least able to afford avoiding fluoride once it is added to the water supply. No financial support is being offered to these families to help them get alternative water supplies or to help pay the costs of treating unsightly cases of dental fluorosis.

38) Black and Hispanic children are more vulnerable to fluoride’s toxicity. According to the CDC’s national survey of dental fluorosis, black and Mexican-American children have significantly higher rates of dental fluorosis than white children (Beltran-Aguilar 2005, Table 23). The recognition that minority children appear to be more vulnerable to toxic effects of fluoride, combined with the fact that low-income families are less able to avoid drinking fluoridated water, has prompted prominent leaders in the environmental-justice movement to oppose mandatory fluoridation in Georgia. In a statement issued in May 2011, Andrew Young, a colleague of Martin Luther King, Jr., and former Mayor of Atlanta and former US Ambassador to the United Nations, stated:

“I am most deeply concerned for poor families who have babies: if they cannot afford unfluoridated water for their babies’ milk formula, do their babies not count? Of course they do. This is an issue of fairness, civil rights, and compassion. We must find better ways to prevent cavities, such as helping those most at risk for cavities obtain access to the services of a dentist…My father was a dentist. I formerly was a strong believer in the benefits of water fluoridation for preventing cavities. But many things that we began to do 50 or more years ago we now no longer do, because we have learned further information that changes our practices and policies. So it is with fluoridation.”

39) Minorities are not being warned about their vulnerabilities to fluoride. The CDC is not warning black and Mexican-American children that they have higher rates of dental fluorosis than Caucasian children (see #38). This extra vulnerability may extend to other toxic effects of fluoride. Black Americans have higher rates of lactose intolerance, kidney problems and diabetes, all of which may exacerbate fluoride’s toxicity.

40) Tooth decay reflects low-income not low-fluoride intake. Since dental decay is most concentrated in poor communities, we should be spending our efforts trying to increase the access to dental care for low-income families. The highest rates of tooth decay today can be found in low-income areas that have been fluoridated for many years. The real “Oral Health Crisis” that exists today in the United States, is not a lack of fluoride but poverty and lack of dental insurance. The Surgeon General has estimated that 80% of dentists in the US do not treat children on Medicaid.
The largely untested chemicals used in fluoridation programs

41) The chemicals used to fluoridate water are not pharmaceutical grade. Instead, they largely come from the wet scrubbing systems of the phosphate fertilizer industry. These chemicals (90% of which are sodium fluorosilicate and fluorosilicic acid), are classified hazardous wastes contaminated with various impurities. Recent testing by the National Sanitation Foundation suggest that the levels of arsenic in these silicon fluorides are relatively high (up to 1.6 ppb after dilution into public water) and of potential concern (NSF 2000 and Wang 2000). Arsenic is a known human carcinogen for which there is no safe level. This one contaminant alone could be increasing cancer rates – and unnecessarily so.

42) The silicon fluorides have not been tested comprehensively. The chemical usually tested in animal studies is pharmaceutical grade sodium fluoride, not industrial grade fluorosilicic acid. Proponents claim that once the silicon fluorides have been diluted at the public water works they are completely dissociated to free fluoride ions and hydrated silica and thus there is no need to examine the toxicology of these compounds. However, while a study from the University of Michigan (Finney et al., 2006) showed complete dissociation at neutral pH, in acidic conditions (pH 3) there was a stable complex containing five fluoride ions. Thus the possibility arises that such a complex may be regenerated in the stomach where the pH lies between 1 and 2.

43) The silicon fluorides may increase lead uptake into children’s blood. Studies by Masters and Coplan (1999, 2000, 2007), and to a lesser extent Macek (2006), show an association between the use of fluorosilicic acid (and its sodium salt) to fluoridate water and an increased uptake of lead into children’s blood. Because of lead’s acknowledged ability to damage the developing brain, this is a very serious finding. Nevertheless, it is being largely ignored by fluoridating countries. This association received some strong biochemical support from an animal study by Sawan et al. (2010) who found that exposure of rats to a combination of fluorosilicic acid and lead in their drinking water increased the uptake of lead into blood some threefold over exposure to lead alone.

44) Fluoride may leach lead from pipes, brass fittings and soldered joints. In tightly controlled laboratory experiments, Maas et al (2007) have shown that fluoridating agents in combination with chlorinating agents such as chloroamine increase the leaching of lead from brass fittings used in plumbing. While proponents may argue about the neurotoxic effects of low levels of fluoride there is no argument that lead at very low levels lowers IQ in children.
Continued promotion of fluoridation is unscientific

45) Key health studies have not been done. In the January 2008 issue of Scientific American, Professor John Doull, the chairman of the important 2006 National Research Council review, Fluoride in Drinking Water: A Review of EPA’s Standards, is quoted as saying:

What the committee found is that we’ve gone with the status quo regarding fluoride for many years—for too long really—and now we need to take a fresh look . . . In the scientific community people tend to think this is settled. I mean, when the U.S. surgeon general comes out and says this is one of the top 10 greatest achievements of the 20th century, that’s a hard hurdle to get over. But when we looked at the studies that have been done, we found that many of these questions are unsettled and we have much less information than we should, considering how long this [fluoridation] has been going on.

The absence of studies is being used by promoters as meaning the absence of harm. This is an irresponsible position.

46) Endorsements do not represent scientific evidence. Many of those promoting fluoridation rely heavily on a list of endorsements. However, the U.S. PHS first endorsed fluoridation in 1950, before one single trial had been completed and before any significant health studies had been published (see chapters 9 and 10 in The Case Against Fluoride for the significance of this PHS endorsement for the future promotion of fluoridation). Many other endorsements swiftly followed with little evidence of any scientific rational for doing so. The continued use of these endorsements has more to do with political science than medical science.

47) Review panels hand-picked to deliver a pro-fluoridation result. Every so often, particularly when their fluoridation program is under threat, governments of fluoridating countries hand-pick panels to deliver reports that provide the necessary re-endorsement of the practice. In their recent book Fluoride Wars (2009), which is otherwise slanted toward fluoridation, Alan Freeze and Jay Lehr concede this point when they write:

There is one anti-fluoridationist charge that does have some truth to it. Anti-fluoride forces have always claimed that the many government-sponsored review panels set up over the years to assess the costs and benefits of fluoridation were stacked in favor of fluoridation. A review of the membership of the various panels confirms this charge. The expert committees that put together reports by the American Association for the Advancement of Science in 1941, 1944 and 1954; the National Academy of Sciences in 1951, 1971, 1977 and 1993; the World Health Organization in 1958 and 1970; and the U.S. Public Health Service in 1991 are rife with the names of well-known medical and dental researchers who actively campaigned on behalf of fluoridation or whose research was held in high regard in the pro-fluoridation movement. Membership was interlocking and incestuous.

The most recent examples of these self-fulfilling prophecies have come from the Irish Fluoridation Forum (2002); the National Health and Medical Research Council (NHMRC, 2007) and Health Canada (2008, 2010). The latter used a panel of six experts to review the health literature. Four of the six were pro-fluoridation dentists and the other two had no demonstrated expertise on fluoride. A notable exception to this trend was the appointment by the U.S. National Research Council of the first balanced panel of experts ever selected to look at fluoride’s toxicity in the U.S. This panel of twelve reviewed the US EPA’s safe drinking water standards for fluoride. After three and half years the panel concluded in a 507- page report that the safe drinking water standard was not protective of health and a new maximum contaminant level goal (MCLG) should be determined (NRC, 2006). If normal toxicological procedures and appropriate margins of safety were applied to their findings this report should spell an end to water fluoridation. Unfortunately in January of 2011 the US EPA Office of Water made it clear that they would not determine a value for the MCLG that would jeopardize the water fluoridation program (EPA press release, Jan 7, 2011. Once again politics was allowed to trump science.
More and more independent scientists oppose fluoridation

48) Many scientists oppose fluoridation. Proponents of fluoridation have maintained for many years— despite the fact that the earliest opponents of fluoridation were biochemists—that the only people opposed to fluoridation are not bona fide scientists. Today, as more and more scientists, doctors, dentists and other professionals, read the primary literature for themselves, rather than relying on self-serving statements from the ADA and the CDC, they are realizing that they and the general public have not been diligently informed by their professional bodies on this subject. As of January 2012, over 4,000 professionals have signed a statement calling for an end to water fluoridation worldwide. This statement and a list of signatories can be found on the website of the Fluoride Action Network. A glimpse of the caliber of those opposing fluoridation can be gleaned by watching the 28-minute video “Professional Perspectives on Water fluoridation” which can be viewed online at the same FAN site.
Proponents’ dubious tactics

49) Proponents usually refuse to defend fluoridation in open debate. While pro-fluoridation officials continue to promote fluoridation with undiminished fervor, they usually refuse to defend the practice in open public debate – even when challenged to do so by organizations such as the Association for Science in the Public Interest, the American College of Toxicology, or the U.S. EPA (Bryson 2004). According to Dr. Michael Easley, a prominent lobbyist for fluoridation in the US, “Debates give the illusion that a scientific controversy exists when no credible people support the fluorophobics’ view” (Easley, 1999). In light of proponents’ refusal to debate this issue, Dr. Edward Groth, a Senior Scientist at Consumers Union, observed that, “the political profluoridation stance has evolved into a dogmatic, authoritarian, essentially antiscientific posture, one that discourages open debate of scientific issues” (Martin 1991).

50) Proponents use very dubious tactics to promote fluoridation. Many scientists, doctors and dentists who have spoken out publicly on this issue have been subjected to censorship and intimidation (Martin 1991). Dr. Phyllis Mullenix was fired from her position as Chair of Toxicology at Forsythe Dental Center for publishing her findings on fluoride and the brain (Mullenix 1995); and Dr. William Marcus was fired from the EPA for questioning the government’s handling of the NTP’s fluoride-cancer study (Bryson 2004). Many dentists and even doctors tell opponents in private that they are opposed to this practice but dare not speak out in public because of peer pressure and the fear of recriminations. Tactics like this would not be necessary if those promoting fluoridation were on secure scientific and ethical grounds.
Conclusion

When it comes to controversies surrounding toxic chemicals, vested interests traditionally do their very best to discount animal studies and quibble with epidemiological findings. In the past, political pressures have led government agencies to drag their feet on regulating asbestos, benzene, DDT, PCBs, tetraethyl lead, tobacco and dioxins. With fluoridation we have had a sixty-year delay. Unfortunately, because government officials and dental leaders have put so much of their credibility on the line defending fluoridation, and because of the huge liabilities waiting in the wings if they admit that fluoridation has caused an increase in hip fracture, arthritis, bone cancer, brain disorders or thyroid problems, it will be very difficult for them to speak honestly and openly about the issue. But they must, not only to protect millions of people from unnecessary harm, but to protect the notion that, at its core, public health policy must be based on sound science, not political expediency. They have a tool with which to do this: it’s called the Precautionary Principle. Simply put, this says: if in doubt leave it out. This is what most European countries have done and their children’s teeth have not suffered, while their public’s trust has been strengthened.

Just how much doubt is needed on just one of the health concerns identified above, to override a benefit, which when quantified in the largest survey ever conducted in the US, amounts to less than one tooth surface (out of 128) in a child’s mouth?

While fluoridation may not be the greatest environmental health threat, it is one of the easiest to end. It is as easy as turning off a spigot in the public water works. But to turn off that spigot takes political will and to get that we need masses more people informed and organized. Please get these 50 reasons to all your friends and encourage them to get fluoride out of their community and to help ban this practice worldwide.


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago] * 1
    #23566896 - 08/22/16 06:27 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

You're honestly quitting Guinness because of the water they use? It's probably one of the standards there seeing how it prevents tooth decay. People either worry about fluoridosis (tiny spots on the teeth that are barely visible) or any number of insane crackpot conspiracy bullshit.

I just think it's a silly reason to stop drinking a beer you like. You are looking waaaaay too much into it and inventing problems that don't exist.


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23567004 - 08/22/16 07:03 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Moonshoe said:
If you do not oppose water fluoridation it is because you have not yet educated yourself sufficiently to understand the issue. Once you truly understand it, it is not possible to support it.




Wow, did you read that yourself?

1) Fluoride is the only chemical added to water for the purpose of medical treatment. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) classifies fluoride as a drug when used to prevent or mitigate disease (FDA 2000). As a matter of basic logic, adding fluoride to water for the sole purpose of preventing tooth decay (a non-waterborne disease) is a form of medical treatment. All other water treatment chemicals are added to improve the water’s quality or safety, which fluoride does not do.

Okay, so this is saying fluoride is bad because it isn't specifically added to improve the water's quality or safety? That isn't an argument at all. Next..

2) Fluoridation is unethical. Informed consent is standard practice for all medication, and one of the key reasons why most of Western Europe has ruled against fluoridation. With water fluoridation we are allowing governments to do to whole communities (forcing people to take a medicine irrespective of their consent) what individual doctors cannot do to individual patients.

Put another way: Does a voter have the right to require that their neighbor ingest a certain medication (even if it is against that neighbor’s will)?

Again, no good argument against it. They are trying to define it as a drug but I think the Food And Drug Act would classify it as a food additive. It's healthy for people's teeth so we add it to the tap water. There's no invasive medical procedure here and it doesn't affect anything but teeth.

If you're trying to classify this as medical assault let's argue against adding Vitamin D to milk or fortifying pasta. Just stop. It's silly.

3) The dose cannot be controlled. Once fluoride is put in the water it is impossible to control the dose each individual receives because people drink different amounts of water. Being able to control the dose a patient receives is critical. Some people (e.g., manual laborers, athletes, diabetics, and people with kidney disease) drink substantially more water than others.

You know... If it actually caused problems, I'd agree. Since the stuff doesn't however, at any reasonable dose (read that as: the max amount of water one can drink in a day) the dose doesn't actually matter. I drink a shitload of tap water BTW.

4) The fluoride goes to everyone regardless of age, health or vulnerability. According to Dr. Arvid Carlsson, the 2000 Nobel Laureate in Medicine and Physiology and one of the scientists who helped keep fluoridation out of Sweden:

“Water fluoridation goes against leading principles of pharmacotherapy, which is progressing from a stereotyped medication — of the type 1 tablet 3 times a day — to a much more individualized therapy as regards both dosage and selection of drugs. The addition of drugs to the drinking water means exactly the opposite of an individualized therapy” (Carlsson 1978).


Again, there is simply no argument there. And give me a break it's fucking fluoride salts, not coumarin.

5) People now receive fluoride from many other sources besides water. Fluoridated water is not the only way people are exposed to fluoride. Other sources of fluoride include food and beverages processed with fluoridated water (Kiritsy 1996; Heilman 1999), fluoridated dental products (Bentley 1999; Levy 1999), mechanically deboned meat (Fein 2001), tea (Levy 1999), and pesticide residues (e.g., from cryolite) on food (Stannard 1991; Burgstahler 1997). It is now widely acknowledged that exposure to non-water sources of fluoride has significantly increased since the water fluoridation program first began (NRC 2006).

Damn my toothpaste! Again. No argument. It just says it's in multiple products and has increased. Don't care if that's true or not because it isn't an argument against it.

6) Fluoride is not an essential nutrient. No disease, not even tooth decay, is caused by a “fluoride deficiency.”(NRC 1993; Institute of Medicine 1997, NRC 2006). Not a single biological process has been shown to require fluoride. On the contrary there is extensive evidence that fluoride can interfere with many important biological processes. Fluoride interferes with numerous enzymes (Waldbott 1978). In combination with aluminum, fluoride interferes with G-proteins (Bigay 1985, 1987). Such interactions give aluminum-fluoride complexes the potential to interfere with signals from growth factors, hormones and neurotransmitters (Strunecka & Patocka 1999; Li 2003). More and more studies indicate that fluoride can interfere with biochemistry in fundamental ways (Barbier 2010).

And of course nobody will ACTUALLY look this up so why not post it? Well I did, and the citation doesn't cite any journal. It's another website. If you search pubmed you find nothing. At least for sodium fluoride.

EDIT: That isn't accurate, you can find studies just not anything that's been replicated to my knowledge.

Fluoride is an electronegative bastard and trust me, it isn't going anywhere. Not even HCl could pull that fucker off.

7) The level in mothers’ milk is very low. Considering reason #6 it is perhaps not surprising that the level of fluoride in mother’s milk is remarkably low (0.004 ppm, NRC, 2006). This means that a bottle-fed baby consuming fluoridated water (0.6 – 1.2 ppm) can get up to 300 times more fluoride than a breast-fed baby. There are no benefits (see reasons #11-19), only risks (see reasons #21-36), for infants ingesting this heightened level of fluoride at such an early age (an age where susceptibility to environmental toxins is particularly high).

Citing themselves again. That's not how it works :/

8 ) Fluoride accumulates in the body. Healthy adult kidneys excrete 50 to 60% of the fluoride ingested each day (Marier & Rose 1971). The remainder accumulates in the body, largely in calcifying tissues such as the bones and pineal gland (Luke 1997, 2001). Infants and children excrete less fluoride from their kidneys and take up to 80% of ingested fluoride into their bones (Ekstrand 1994). The fluoride concentration in bone steadily increases over a lifetime (NRC 2006).

They just love pulling this stuff out of thin air knowing the ignorant reader will think "this is bad"

9) No health agency in fluoridated countries is monitoring fluoride exposure or side effects. No regular measurements are being made of the levels of fluoride in urine, blood, bones, hair, or nails of either the general population or sensitive subparts of the population (e.g., individuals with kidney disease).

They have done plenty of studies. There's actually one too recent for me to pull up on libgen. Some of the ones I've read make some pretty amazing leaps of logic and the data that is there only shows if there is something bad it causes to happen, it's so insignificant we can't get any good repetitive data on it.

But yes, plenty of studies have been done. Just search NCBI for sodium fluoride toxicity

10) There has never been a single randomized controlled trial to demonstrate fluoridation’s effectiveness or safety. Despite the fact that fluoride has been added to community water supplies for over 60 years, “there have been no randomized trials of water fluoridation” (Cheng 2007). Randomized trials are the standard method for determining the safety and effectiveness of any purportedly beneficial medical treatment. In 2000, the British Government’s “York Review” could not give a single fluoridation trial a Grade A classification – despite 50 years of research (McDonagh 2000). The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) continues to classify fluoride as an “unapproved new drug.”
Swallowing fluoride provides no (or very little) benefit

That's not how you'd test something long term. What a moron. Yeah sure, let's do trials so we can watch people drink water. That'll show us SO MUCH

11) Benefit is topical not systemic. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC, 1999, 2001) has now acknowledged that the mechanism of fluoride’s benefits are mainly topical, not systemic. There is no need whatsoever, therefore, to swallow fluoride to protect teeth. Since the purported benefit of fluoride is topical, and the risks are systemic, it makes more sense to deliver the fluoride directly to the tooth in the form of toothpaste. Since swallowing fluoride is unnecessary, and potentially dangerous, there is no justification for forcing people (against their will) to ingest fluoride through their water supply.

Okay I'm bored but if there is something specific you want to point out that isn't "fluoride is bad because it is in stuff" which is that crackpot's central argument, let me know.

Guy cites himself. Who does he think he is? x3


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OfflineVriska Serket
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: micro]
    #23567008 - 08/22/16 07:05 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

fucking owned


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Vriska Serket]
    #23567032 - 08/22/16 07:11 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

If you want a beer that will get you shit canned with the quickness, look no further than:

Sixpoint hi res 10.5%

http://sixpoint.com/beers/cycliquids/hi-res


Or

Dogfish head Palo Santo Marron 12%

https://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/64/33832/

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago] * 1
    #23567046 - 08/22/16 07:18 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Or drink whiskey and you have fewer calories.

Not to mention it can get me drunk.


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: micro] * 2
    #23567050 - 08/22/16 07:21 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

And in your case....you can totally cosby up the drink a little bit.  Win win.

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23567102 - 08/22/16 07:38 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

IIRC, peak bioavailability is 15-20% ABV, and carbonation of course further aids in crossing the BBB. I've never had any beer 15%+ that was particularly drinkable, though.

Hi Res really is dangerously drinkable for the ABV. In that style at that strength, though, I think Stone's RuinTen is the most (drinkable). Not as sweet and a bit more aromatic/juicy, I have to really watch myself with them. Released late June each year so it's certainly past it's prime at this point, unfortunately. That said, their Enjoy By (Just 35 days after bottling before store-owners have to pull them from shelves, guaranteed fresh/pungent) is even juicier, and at 9.5% won't take too much more to get just as buzzed. Enjoy By Unfiltered 09/05/16 is out now (find.stonebrewing.com).


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Edited by DustBunny (08/22/16 07:41 PM)

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: DustBunny]
    #23567163 - 08/22/16 07:53 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Hi res has gotten me into some obliterated states at a venue I go to in the area.  They sell cans for 4 bucks. I am shit faced by 20 dollars.  Everyones buying PBR tall boys for 3 bucks, don't know what they're missing.

They don't sell anything above 12% in ohio, but a friend of mine works at a brewery and has some pretty nice brews from out of state he trades for.

The worst beer I have ever drank, can't remember the name, but it was an 11% habenero beer. Like it was so fucking spicy I could only sip it.  He cracked it for me and a friend, and they both took one sip and said no way, I finished the bottle but I hated every second of it, and I love spicy things.

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23567178 - 08/22/16 07:57 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Terrapin and Samuel Smith have some good dark beers, yum!

I used to love Guinness, drank it all the time, especially the extra stout.


Haven't had beer in a long time though.:sad:


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: micro]
    #23567198 - 08/22/16 08:01 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

micro said:
Quote:

Moonshoe said:
1) Fluoride is the only chemical added to water for the purpose of medical treatment. The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) classifies fluoride as a drug when used to prevent or mitigate disease (FDA 2000). As a matter of basic logic, adding fluoride to water for the sole purpose of preventing tooth decay (a non-waterborne disease) is a form of medical treatment. All other water treatment chemicals are added to improve the water’s quality or safety, which fluoride does not do.




Okay, so this is saying fluoride is bad because it isn't specifically added to improve the water's quality or safety? That isn't an argument at all. Next..





I think it is an argument. Personally i only drink town water if i absolutely have to. I'm the type of person that likes to consume what they think they're consuming. If water comes out of the tap, i don't want it have added chemicals to it; i just want to drink plain water.
If fluoride is such an important nutrient to have in our diet for our teeth then people should be educated on it and given the choice to add it. The same goes for orange juice. Why the hell do companies add vitamin C to orange juice? That's bull crap!


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Magenta] * 1
    #23567203 - 08/22/16 08:02 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

WHY DO THESE FUCKING GMO CUNTS ADD OXYGEN TO MY AIR ITS MY CHOICE FUCK YOU BIG PHARMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Lucis]
    #23567211 - 08/22/16 08:03 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Fennario said:
Terrapin and Samuel Smith have some good dark beers, yum!

I used to love Guinness, drank it all the time, especially the extra stout.


Haven't had beer in a long time though.:sad:





I was a big fan of samuel smiths.....like every beer they made.

Their fruit beers are so unique.  The raspberry, apricot, and strawberry are really really good.

Their oatmeal stout is pretty awesome too.

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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Magenta]
    #23567253 - 08/22/16 08:14 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Magenta said:
I think it is an argument. Personally i only drink town water if i absolutely have to. I'm the type of person that likes to consume what they think they're consuming. If water comes out of the tap, i don't want it have added chemicals to it; i just want to drink plain water.
If fluoride is such an important nutrient to have in our diet for our teeth then people should be educated on it and given the choice to add it. The same goes for orange juice. Why the hell do companies add vitamin C to orange juice? That's bull crap!




Are you serious?

See, this is the problem.

"If I don't know about it, then it must bad."

If we followed your philosophy, you know how sick we'd all be?


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23567263 - 08/22/16 08:17 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

:strokebeard: Was it Stone's Crime or Punishment?

Crime was just under 10% IIRC, Punishment (Which I've bought four bottles :tongue2:) is 12%. I'm a huge fan of the base beer Double Bastard, whiskey barrel aged strongs, and chiles, so of course I had to try it. Personally I think it's either one to enjoy with a few people alongside other beers, or with food. It's super hot to me too, but a sip after something grilled, or a sip before a stout or fruited beer is delicious. Definitely one to work on slowly like that for hours IMO, no sense drinking it so fast that you aren't really tasting it.

I wouldn't be totally averted to the addition of chiles though. A small addition of them in Mexican chocolate style stouts (Chocolate, Cinnamon, Vanilla, and a little bit of chiles) works incredibly well, so much so that they're my favorite theme of flavored stouts.


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Invisiblevandago
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23567277 - 08/22/16 08:22 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Possibly.  We all agreed that it would go great with some steak or a burger.  It definitely took me over an hour to drink it straight.  It was just too much for a casual drink.  I didn't think of mixing it up with another beer though. 

I miss the days of being a beer snob. I was never drunk, but I always drank.  Then I just said fuck it and started drinking 90 minute like it was bud light and it got me into a lot of drunken stupors.  I still haven't tried 120 minute.

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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23567318 - 08/22/16 08:32 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Why do people put chocolate and blueberries and shit in beer? Just, no. This is not okay. Fucking blueberries don't belong in beer.


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Invisiblevandago
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: micro] * 1
    #23567374 - 08/22/16 08:52 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

What kind of hypocrite says:

Quote:

Are you serious?

See, this is the problem.

"If I don't know about it, then it must bad."

If we followed your philosophy, you know how sick we'd all be?





And then follows it up with:

Quote:

micro said:
Why do people put chocolate and blueberries and shit in beer? Just, no. This is not okay. Fucking blueberries don't belong in beer.



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Invisiblemicro
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23567376 - 08/22/16 08:53 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

That's personal taste.

I'm not worried they are unhealthy, I just think it's gay.


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InvisibleDustBunnyM
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: micro] * 1
    #23567405 - 08/22/16 09:07 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Different people have different tastes :shrug: Reinheitsgebot isn't law anywhere anymore.


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OfflineLogicaL ChaosM
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: DustBunny]
    #23568183 - 08/23/16 05:35 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Theres an alcohol for everybody nowadays: shandys, ciders, hard rootbeer, hard ginger ale, stouts, ales, IPAs, hefe's, fruity beers, malt liquor etc...

i have to admit, blueberries is kinda weird.

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Offlinedesant
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: vandago]
    #23572270 - 08/24/16 09:18 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

vandago said:




This stuff is delicious:







There's no such beer in UK, I checked


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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant] * 1
    #23574991 - 08/25/16 04:07 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

:havesomescience:


Harvard Study Confirms Fluoride Reduces Children's IQ

A recently-published Harvard University meta-analysis funded by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) has concluded that children who live in areas with highly fluoridated water have "significantly lower" IQ scores than those who live in low fluoride areas.

In a 32-page report that can be downloaded free of charge from Environmental Health Perspectives, the researchers said:

    A recent report from the U.S. National Research Council (NRC 2006) concluded that adverse effects of high fluoride concentrations in drinking water may be of concern and that additional research is warranted. Fluoride may cause neurotoxicity in laboratory animals, including effects on learning and memory ...

    To summarize the available literature, we performed a systematic review and meta-analysis of published studies on increased fluoride exposure in drinking water and neurodevelopmental delays. We specifically targeted studies carried out in rural China that have not been widely disseminated, thus complementing the studies that have been included in previous reviews and risk assessment reports ...

    Findings from our meta-analyses of 27 studies published over 22 years suggest an inverse association between high fluoride exposure and children's intelligence ... The results suggest that fluoride may be a developmental neurotoxicant that affects brain development at exposures much below those that can cause toxicity in adults ...

Studies Have Repeatedly Linked Fluoride to Reduced IQ and Brain Damage


Reported effects of fluoride on your brain include:

• Reduction in nicotinic acetylcholine receptors
• Damage to your hippocampus
• Formation of beta-amyloid plaques (the classic brain abnormality in Alzheimer's disease)
• Reduction in lipid content
• Damage to purkinje cells
• Exacerbation of lesions induced by iodine deficiency
• Impaired antioxidant defense systems
• Increased uptake of aluminum
• Accumulation of fluoride in your pineal gland

Study: Fluoride Can Harm the Thyroid … Leading to Depression, Fatigue and Weight Gain

Harvard Professor: Fluoride Toxic to Children, Linked to Autism



Fluoride joined the likes of lead, arsenic, methylmercury, toluene and other chemicals known to damage brain tissue.

In the March 2014 journal Lancet Neurology, the highly prevalent chemical was reclassified as a developmental neurotoxin by medical authorities.

The authors, Dr. Philippe Grandjean of the Harvard School of Public Health and Dr. Philip Landrigan of the Icahn School of Medicine write, “A meta-analysis of 27 cross-sectional studies of children exposed to fluoride in drinking water, mainly from China, suggests an average IQ decrement of about seven points in children exposed to raised fluoride concentrations.”

The majority of these 27 studies had water fluoride levels of less than four milligrams per liter, which falls under the allowable level set by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

Developmental neurotoxins, which are capable of causing widespread brain disorders such as autism, attention deficit hyperactivity disorder and learning disabilities, often cause untreatable and permanent damage.

Grandjean and Landrigan write, “Our very great concern is that children worldwide are being exposed to unrecognized toxic chemicals that are silently eroding intelligence, disrupting behaviors, truncating future achievements and damaging societies, perhaps most seriously in developing countries.”

The CDC’s own evidence reveals Americans already show symptoms of fluoride-overexposure and reports that 41 percent of American teenagers have dental fluorosis, a physical sign that they ingested too much fluoride while their teeth were forming. Evidence also indicates these markers in the U.S. are not decreasing over time, but are increasing.

43 human studies finding reduced IQ from fluoride exposure

http://fluoridealert.org/studies/brain01/

As of February 2015, a total of 50 studies have investigated the relationship between fluoride and human intelligence, and a total of 34 studies have investigated the relationship fluoride and learning/memory in animals. Of these investigations, 43 of the 50 human studies have found that elevated fluoride exposure is associated with reduced IQ, while 32 of the 34 animal studies have found that fluoride exposure impairs the learning and/or memory capacity of animals. The human studies, which are based on IQ examinations of over 11,000 children, provide compelling evidence that fluoride exposure during the early years of life can damage a child’s developing brain.

  Studies Finding Association Between Fluoride & Reduced IQ:



Choi A, et al. (2014). Association of lifetime exposure to fluoride and cognitive functions in Chinese children: A pilot study. Neurotoxicology & Teratology [Epub ahead of print].

Zhang S, et al. (2015). Modifying Effect of COMT Gene Polymorphism and a Predictive Role for Proteomics Analysis in Children’s Intelligence in Endemic Fluorosis Area in Tianjin, China. Toxicological Sciences [Epub ahead of print]

Singh VP, et al. (2014). A correlation between serum vitamin, acetylcholinesterase activity and IQ in children with excessive endemic fluoride exposure in Rajasthan, India. European Academic Journal 2(4):5857-5869.

Trivedi MH, et al. (2012). Assessment of groundwater quality with special reference to fluoride and its impact on IQ of schoolchildren in six villages of the Mundra Region, Kachchh, Gujurat, India. Fluoride 45(4):377-83.

Seraj B, et al. (2012). Effect of high water fluoride concentration on the intellectual development of children in Makoo/Iran. Journal of Dentistry, Tehran University of Medical Sciences. 9(3): 221-29.


Saxena S, et al. (2012). Effect of fluoride exposure on the intelligence of school children in Madhya Pradesh, India. Journal of Neurosciences in Rural Practice 3(2):144-49.

Poureslami HR, et al. (2011). Intelligence quotient of 7 to 9 year-old children from an area with high fluoride in drinking water. Journal of Dentistry and Oral Hygiene 3(4):61-64.

Shivaprakash PK, et al. (2011). Relation between dental fluorosis and intelligence quotient in school children of Bagalkot district. J Indian Soc Pedod Prev Dent. 29(2):117-20.

Rocha-Amador D, et al. (2007). Decreased intelligence in children and exposure to fluoride and arsenic in drinking water. Cadernos de Saude Publica 23(Suppl 4):S579-87.

Wang SX, et al. (2007). Arsenic and fluoride exposure in drinking water: children’s IQ and growth in Shanyin county, Shanxi province, China. Environmental Health Perspectives 115(4):643-7.

Trivedi MH, et al. (2007). Effect of high fluoride water on intelligence of school children in India. Fluoride 40(3):178-183.

Karimzade S, et al. (2014). Investigation of intelligence quotient in 9-12-year-old children exposed to high- and low-drinking water fluoride in West Azerbaijan province, Iran. Fluoride 47(1):9-14.

Seraj B, et al. (2012). Effect of high water fluoride concentration on the intellectual development of children in Makoo/Iran. Journal of Dentistry, Tehran University of Medical Sciences. 9(3): 221-29.

Ding Y, et al. (2011). The relationships between low levels of urine fluoride on children’s intelligence, dental fluorosis in endemic fluorosis areas in Hulunbuir, Inner Mongolia, China. Journal of Hazardous Materials 186(2-3):1942-46.

Poureslami HR, et al. (2011). Intelligence quotient of 7 to 9 year-old children from an area with high fluoride in drinking water. Journal of Dentistry and Oral Hygiene 3(4):61-64.

Eswar P, et al. (2011). Intelligent quotients of 12-14 year old school children in a high and low fluoride village in India. Fluoride 44:168-72.

Shivaprakash PK, et al. (2011). Relation between dental fluorosis and intelligence quotient in school children of Bagalkot district. J Indian Soc Pedod Prev Dent. 29(2):117-20.



“In agreement with other studies elsewhere, these findings indicate that children drinking high F water are at risk for impaired development of intelligence.”


RESULTS AND CONCLUSIONS:


“In conclusion, our study suggested that low levels of fluoride exposure in drinking water had negative effects on children’s intelligence and dental health and confirmed the dose-response relationships between urine fluoride and IQ scores as well as dental fluorosis.”

“The study found that children residing in a region with a high drinking water F level had lower IQs compared to children living in a low drinking water F region (p<0.001). The differences could not be attributed to confounding educational, economic, social, cultural, and general demographic factors.”

“We observed reduced AChE activity in [the high fluoride area] which may be directly correlate[d] with the reduced intelligence score of the subjects.”

" Children had a higher risk for cognitive impairments after fluoride exposure. Additionally, proteomics analysis represents early specific markers of developmental fluoride neurotoxicity."

"“Results of our field study raise a concern about the safety of elevated systemic exposure to fluoride from high concentrations in the drinking water. "

"systemic exposure  impairs children’s neurodevelopment especially during the highly vulnerable windows of brain development in utero and during infancy and childhood and may result in permanent brain injury."

" lower IQ in a greater number of children from high F village than in the low F village"

"indicated toward decreased Intelligence in children exposed to high levels of fluoride "

"“High exposure to fluoride most definitely has an adverse effect on the development of intelligence in children, in particular on the capability of abstract inference.”

"fluoride in water, were significantly correlated with IQ, Fluoride’s effect on IQ was larger than the effect from arsenic "

“This study indicates that exposure to fluoride in drinking water is associated with neurotoxic effects in children.”

“In agreement with other studies elsewhere, these findings indicate that children drinking high F water are at risk for impaired development of intelligence.”

“Exposure to high levels of fluoride is likely to cause a certain level of harm to a child’s level of intelligence.”

““Based on the findings of this study, exposure of children to high levels of fluoride may carry the risk of impaired development of intelligence.”

“High fluoride burden has a definite effect on the intellectual and physical development of children.”

This is just a small sample from 43 studies all of which can be found here:

http://fluoridealert.org/studies/brain01/


:havesomescience:


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Invisiblehowsyournaggerdoin
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: DustBunny]
    #23575014 - 08/25/16 04:33 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

DustBunny said:
Different people have different tastes :shrug: Reinheitsgebot isn't law anywhere anymore.




It is in germany.

https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bierstdb/BJNR701350931.html
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/bierv/BJNR013320990.html

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Offlinemusiclover420
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: Moonshoe]
    #23575772 - 08/25/16 11:19 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

It's hilarious how everyone gives you shit for not using sources then when you start posting them all they pretty much get ignored :lol: people seem much more comfortable believeving what they want to and staying in blissful ignorance...


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Don't worry about me, I've got all that I need. And I'm singing my song to the sky

You know how it feels, With the breeze of the sun in your eyes. Not minding that time's passing by

I've got all and more, My smile, just as before. Is all that I carry with me

I talk to myself, I need nobody else. I'm lost and I'm mine, yes I'm free


Edited by musiclover420 (08/25/16 11:20 AM)

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OfflineAuroraBorealis88
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: desant]
    #23575852 - 08/25/16 11:55 AM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Dammit that's my fav beer

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InvisibleK-9 Unit
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Re: Fluoride in my favourite beer!! [Re: AuroraBorealis88]
    #23575870 - 08/25/16 12:01 PM (7 years, 7 months ago)

Ehh, Guiness is the PBR of dark beer, it won't be missed. But this is still sketch. I swear we are only a few years away from them printing adds on our beer cans.

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